Eames Bradley payements scrapped?

This is unconfirmed (as I did not hear the programme) but I am told that the Secretary of State has told the Nolan Show that the Eames Bradley £12,000 payments have been cancelled. Whilst this is clearly what the overwhelming majority of victims and members of society wanted this may as I have suggested before be a device to try to save the other equally repellent parts of the report.

The other issue is where this leaves Eames Bradley’s credibility, surely rock bottom though unless the SoS bins the whole report I suspect the rows will go on. As I have always said Eames Bradley was not fit for purpose.

Update: The BBC seem to be confirming the story and that the only thing being dropped so far is the payments.

  • edward

    You only think it unfit for purpose because it doesn’t follow the orange – good, taig – bad narrative you like to believe is reality

  • William

    The Eames/Bradley report is even more repugnant with the news courtesy of a question in Parliament to Woodward, that the 8 who made up the Group plus the two ‘International advisors’ received the around £68k each….amazing and they didn’t have to give up their day jobs either….

    Disgusting – just like their report.

  • Democratic

    “You only think it unfit for purpose because it doesn’t follow the orange – good, taig – bad narrative you like to believe is reality”
    Yes Edward – whereas as you like to demonstrate your much more credible and objective version of “the right way of things” TM in your frequent musings on this site…..

  • ABC

    Poor Turgon, another device you party leader was using to scare people kicked into touch.

  • west belfast

    You should lesson to the whole interview Turgon. My reading is that the other parts of the report are alive and well. Have a listen and see what you think.

    William – why dont we set up a Commission on the Future direction of yesteryear – Im a bit skint!

  • edward

    I never claimed to objective, infact I reject the idea that anyone can be truly objective unless they have lived their entire lives in a white box free of outside influences

    As for credible what makes your version any more credible than mine?

  • brendan,belfast

    Turgon – you cannot cancel something which has not been put in place. The payments were proposed, not accepted, agreed or intitiated.

  • fin

    Am I right in thinking that the proposal to pay every victim outraged unionism, because it removed a hierachy of victims they where keen to maintain.

    So doesn’t paying no-one also remove the same hierachy.

    Spendid move by Bradley, Eames and the Government, same result and it didn’t cost a penny, and noone can claim offence.

  • west belfast

    Fin

    interesting view – never thought of it like that. Could be close to the truth.

  • Turgon

    west belfast,
    I have always felt that the payements were something of a straw man created by Eames Bradley to draw attention away from the other parts of the report.

    To my mind the other parts are just as repellant though we may disagree on this.

    If the payments were indeed a straw man (and I find it difficult to see them as anything else) I think that simply further flaws the moral authority of the whole report and indeed any vestage of moral authority or honour its authors man have.

  • joeCanuck

    Using the words “No hierarchy of victims” was an astonishing lack of sensitivity towards people on every side. Perhaps people should instead say “No hierarchy of grief”.

  • fair_deal

    “There isn’t a consensus on it;”

    If consensus is one of the tests how will significant chunks of it proceed?

  • danielmoran

    to turgon… the refusal by the s.o.s. to sanction the payout of 12k may have appeared to solve a problem for the dup specifically, but in reality, all it does is to remind the dup voters that the principle of ‘no hierarchy of victims’ still stands after their inability to veto it because of their deal with the shinners. while they claim not to want such a hierarchy unionists generally want just that.

  • Democratic

    “As for credible what makes your version any more credible than mine?”
    Exactly my point Edward no?…..

    Using the words “No hierarchy of victims” was an astonishing lack of sensitivity towards people on every side. Perhaps people should instead say “No hierarchy of grief”.

    Excellent suggestion Joe – however it wouldn’t truck with the republican types who do seem to firmly believe that everyone killed in the troubles have equal moral status and indignation -regardless of whether they were in the process of planting a bomb or being blown up by it while buying a fish supper…..we were at war apparently… It is purely a Republican phenomenon I believe – no-one else will ever accept such twisted logic.

  • Greenflag

    Northern Ireland does not need the ‘blood money ‘ amounting to some 50 million pounds which would have been paid out presumably over the course of the ‘program’ . The people of Northern Ireland are all men of ‘Principal ‘ except when it comes to the annual 6 billion pound subvention without which living standards would be somewhere between those of Albania and Slovenia .

    Reconciliation if it ever comes will take time and with quite a large number in Northern Ireland on both sides it won’t come ever and such people will take their ‘anger’ to an early grave with them and will no doubt infect future generations.
    Bradley and Eames meant well but in their anxiety to expedite ‘reconciliation’ they forgot about the ‘dreary steeples ‘ and the ‘bitter mean mouths ‘ of the sectarian society in which both have to operate .

  • William

    Republicans always whine about there being ‘no hierachy of victims’, whilst at the same time creating one, in demanding and being given inquiries into the deaths of defence solicitors [not ‘uman rites lawyers’]Nelson and Finucane and the so-called ‘Bloody Sunday’ Saville Inquiry [recent cost £200m]. They have also asked for numerous others, the latest being for the bookie burglar, Pearse Jordan and I’ve heard one of their reformed terrorists even suggesting there should be one into the taking-out of the East Tyrone Brigade, when they attempted to blow up Loughgall Police station.
    The Shinners and their ilk are the people who insisted on a hierachy…now they don’t want one, as they wish the world to believe that every victim was the same. Of course, the innocent victims of places like Claudy, Loughanisland, Greysteel, La Mon, Shankill fish shop, Bloody Friday didn’t set out to kill and end up that way…no they were going about their business, not out bombing or shooting like the IRA and other paramilitary terrorists of whatever side of the community they came from.
    The will always be a hierachy of victims [innocent and perpretrator] and the definition of victim that was put into law by the Labour Ministers is not acceptable and Unionists and others will insist that it is changed. The Republicans who murdered for over 30 years can’t have their definition of what a victim is, enshirned in law anymore and it must be changed.

  • Democratic

    “except when it comes to the annual 6 billion pound subvention without which living standards would be somewhere between those of Albania and Slovenia .”

    Thank god a United Ireland is far off eh Greenflag…

  • West Belfast

    Well if we can agree that there was no hierarchy of grief then thats progress.

    As one of those ‘republican types’ can I say that no-one is trying to rewrite history or say the IRA were the good guys. But I do not accept that the RUC/UDR/British Army were the good guys either and my point of view is just as valid as anyone elses. Neither is this a way of equalling the blame – the IRA killed over 1500 people during the conflict. But the British State through its forces of law and loyalist paramilitaries killed many people as well.

    I don’t know where you grew up ‘democratic’ but from where I was standing it looked and felt like a war. I know you profoundly disagree with that and I accept your sincerity – all I ask is that you accept mine.

  • west belfast

    William – I agree with much of what you say. Thats why we need a independent truth commission to look at all these events including the actions of IRA Belfast Brigade during Bloody Friday, La Mon etc.

    To be fair I think Eanes Bradley agree with you too.

  • OrangeFlag

    Taggart to earthlink….your greenflag is flying high….stateside????

  • Democratic

    “Well if we can agree that there was no hierarchy of grief then thats progress.”
    Agreed….

    For the record I grew up in perhaps the most Loyalist area in North Belfast – Rathcoole.
    I am very well aware of what “went on” – I am most certainly not as you might fear a removed from it all “Malone Roader” or such like.
    On the “hierachy of victims” – it will always exist in peoples hearts and minds if not in political statute – can you honestly say otherwise?…..the ruling from some that such feelings make you sectarian or bitter should be treated with the contempt it deserves….politcal correctness has its limits….

  • William

    I will never accept that there isn’t a hierachy of victims….I often look at a photograph of the soccer team I played for in the 60s…12 people, cross-community and only 6 still alive. None died because they were terrorists, four died because they choose to join the RUC / UDR, two died eating in a cafe because some terrorists believed them to be RUC detectives. Likewise, my home village with nine people killed, again cross-community with four Protestants and 5 Roman Catholics killed. All of these 15 deaths were of innocent people. They are not in the same category as Thomas Begley, the Shankill fish shop killer who died by his own hand, nor Willie Fleming shot by the SAS in the grounds of Gransha Hospital, whilst out trying to kill an off duty UDR man who worked there, nor the East Tyrone Brigade killed at Loughgall, one of whom Jim Lynagh killed at least 30 members of the Security Forces, nor indeed those killers from the Loyalist community. I took part in the Long March in the mid 1990s for the Innocent victims of the 30+ years of the terrorist campaign and almost 20 years later, my views remain the same. There are INNOCENT victims and their names should be cherished…those who died whilst engaged in terrorism should not. Real victims were the forgotten species whilst the terrorist prisoners and their apologists were appeased. It is now time to stand up and argue and fight the corner of the Innocent. I will do my part!

  • danielmoran

    the point about the hierarchy of victims here is that unionists wanted the wrongdoings of the state the army and the collusion cases kept under wraps and only the cases against republicans dealt with

  • west belfast

    Democratic

    I agree with everything you say in your last post.

    So Andersonstown man to Rathcoole man I say – it was the working classes who bore the brunt of the violence. It was our communities that were torn apart by the failure of our collective political leaders.

    I respect your point of view, even if I will not always accept or agree with it.

  • Democratic

    Actually Daniel – many unionists would make the opposite argument in view to the Republican leadership and their interest in pursuing “the truth” for their own base only and ignoring the many “beams in their own eye” There are many examples we could list if you like….
    William’s post is certainly not all agreeable in tone or content but he makes that point quite well….

  • Democratic

    Fair enough West Belfast – good luck to you…

  • ArchiePurple

    No Daniel Moran….the point is that Republicans wish all victims to be treated the same as part of their airbrushing of their crimes against humanity. We see it everyday of the week in Stormont and elsewhere….and sadly those fools on the Eames / Bradley group, suggest that we airbrush the terrorists’ convictions off their record, something that non-terrorist murderers won’t enjoy, thus creating another hierachy, this time of murderers

  • William

    Democratic:

    I’m interested in what part of my post that you consider, ‘not all agreeable in tone or content’?

    However, I thank you for saying that ‘I make the point quite well’.

    The majority of Innocent victims would say I was ‘100% correct’.

  • Neil

    In the case of the payments which will now not take place, the victims in question do not include IRA men killed during the course of the conflict. One cannot pay dead people money. The victims in this scenario are the people who are left behind.

    In my opinion one cannot draw a distinction between the mother of an IRA man, and the mother of a Soldier. They have both lost the same, both hurt the same. The argument that the mother of the IRA man is somehow complicit in his activities and death is bollocks, many mothers lost children during the past thirty years, and each of those mothers is equally deserving of the term victim.

  • Neil

    Neil…..What planet did you live on….most Mothers of terrorists, especially on the Republican side were 100% in agreement with what they supposed loved ones were doing, that is why so many of them supported Sinn Fein / IRA at the ballot box during the 30+ years of terrorism. Innocent victims of whatever religion or none didn’t go out and support the terrorist, they went about their business and died. Many, if not all to the Mothers of the terrorists were proud that their offspring ‘died fighting for Mother Ireland’. Get real Republicans….your terrorist dead are NOT INNOCENT.

    Terrorists have always had more help than the innocent victims. A innocent person I know, who lost both legs in an 1970s bombing and wished to further his education, couldn’t get financial help to do so and couldn’t get into his local Tech, as it didn’t have a lift in those days, but the person who caused his injuries came out of jail with a Master’s degree, paid for by the State that he sought to overthrow.

  • ArchiePurple

    Sorry Neil…Number 5 was posted by me NOT NEIL

  • Neil

    Archie,

    unless you are some kind ofauthority on the knowledge and voting habits of IRA men’s parents, you are in no position to decide a)who knew what and b)who voted for whom and when.

    Many IRA men, (and paramilitaries from across the spectrum) did not inform their immediate families of their membership, for very obvious reasons.

    So in effect you do support the hierarchy of victims then, but having read your posts that is no surprise.

  • Glencoppagagh

    Neil
    I think we can draw a distinction between parents of dead IRA operatives who were largely ignorant of their activities and did not approve of them posthumously (ie did not countenance paramilitary trappings at a funeral) despite their grief and those who actively celebrate their offsprings’ actions.
    The former deserve to be considered as innocent victims, the latter do not.

  • ulsterfan

    I am glad the SOS has killed this proposal.It is up to the rest of us to marginalise groups like IRA ,UVF and UDA and to hold them respnsible for some of the greatest crimes committed in this country. We have no wish for innocent victims to be associated with them in any way. This distinction must remain and if reconciliation does eventually take place it will not make any difference.

  • ArchiePurple

    What I said was that these people voted Sinn Fein, the same as supporting the IRA whilst the latter were killing and bombing. I have no doubt, that the parents and siblings of members of the IRA were as much supporters of the ‘fight for freedom’ as their dead family member. If I’m wrong, how did Sinn Fein get so many votes, whilst they were supporting bombings and murders?

    Neil…your post is another part of the revisionism….we didn’t support terror, it ‘wos them that dun it, so it wos’….You may think Unionists are as politically green, but we sure ain’t…

  • fin

    coming at this from a different angle, what about the victims of the security forces, where do they sit, are they on a par with the victims of terrorists, therefore putting the security forces on the same level as the terrorists?

    What brought this to mind was Harold Pinter on a TV programme last night was a anti-Iraq war speech he made, ridiculing Blair for lambasting the terrorists who killed 50 or so people in the London bombongs and the next day praising the the job the RAF/BA does which involves cutting children in half with clusterbombs

    is there a heirachy of civilians killed in the middleeast by ritish forces and civilians in London killed by Islamists?

    BTW William, 12 people on a football team, thats just cheating

  • fin

    Apolgies I was wrong, though my arguement is the same, it was at an anti-Serb war rally (so many wars I get confused, at least with the provos its just the one)

    Pinter said Britain’s leaders had been engaging in despicable hypocrisy, and he contrasted Tony Blair’s calling the nail bombing of a bar in Old Compton Street, Soho, “barbaric”, with his defending the cluster bombs dropped on Yugoslavia as “civilization against barbarism”. These clusterbombs cut children to pieces and this is an act which takes place 15,000ft ‘under ‘those brave bombers. An act which Mr Blair, with his moralistic Christianity applauds,”

  • dunreavynomore

    Fin
    the no hierarchy of victims business; would that mean that Lenny Murphy of Shankill butchers infamy is exactly the same in terms of victimhood as , say, Majella O’Hare a child murdered by the Paras or as Bobby Sands? A serious question.

  • fin

    there you go dunreavynomore, lets go a bit further, Majella was RC, there’s quite a few people in NI who believe because of her religion she’s now in hell, just ask the former first minister. The statelet of NI was formed on the belief that one community was better/more deserving than the other, its wrong and it has to end. I refute all the shite sprouted by William and Co. a life is a life.

  • William

    Fin…the fact that an imbecile like you rejects what I say, merely confirms that I’m correct…an innocent killed by the IRA is not the same as a terrorist who blew himself up or was shot whilst carrying out a terrorist act. Any innocent person not engaged in a terrorist act [and that includes throwing a petrol bomb by the way], irrespective of their political belief or religious conviction is a Real victim…people who set out to kill and were killed either by their own hand or by a member of the security forces. I make no difference between terrorists…loyalist or republican….they were and are all the scum of the earth. I’m looking forward to the new film about the life of Grizzly Adams. The working title of it is ‘Scumbag Millionaire’.

  • Arconada Armstrong

    fin
    ‘here you go dunreavynomore, lets go a bit further, Majella was RC, there’s quite a few people in NI who believe because of her religion she’s now in hell, just ask the former first minister.’

    Completely irrelevant to the question asked of you by dunreavynomore. Now, why don’t you answer it?

  • dunreavynomore

    fin
    can you not answer the question I asked you?

  • William

    Fin goes Missing when the hard questions are asked of him….pathetic creep that he is !!!