Order Chides ‘Misguided Protestants’

Whilst elsewhere there were welcome condemnations from across the political spectrum for the latest arson attacks on community halls (GAA + Orange), the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland issued the following strangely worded paragraph as part of their condemnation:

“Retaliation is always a trap and the people who are burning our Orange Halls will be the ones who will be most pleased if misguided people from the Protestant community retaliate.”

  • misguided: acting from or showing mistaken ideas or bad judgement

  • slug

    Sorry, what is strange here Chris?

  • Chris,

    The subtlety is lost on me as well I’m afraid. What are we missing? Grand Lodge are saying this type of behavior is unacceptable and that it can snowball through tit for tat retaliations that benefit no-one.

  • Unless the Protestant community is a misguided people. I can see the title of a Susan McKay book in there somewhere.

  • Chris Donnelly

    Slug

    Well, for starters it’s a bit different to the claims of ‘ethnic cleansing’ from ‘terrorists’ that would more likely be the language of choice were the Brethren the victims of this particular attack. But, no, we’ve got ‘misguided’ persons to blame.

    Secondly, the notion of a retaliatory trap, contextualising loyalist violence as reactive and, ergo, the consequence of unacceptable- though to a degree understandable- actions of ‘misguided’ persons resonates with the narrative of choice regarding loyalist violence of many- not least Lord Kilclooney, if memory serves me correctly.

    It’s as well we don’t do ‘subtleties’ here….

  • slug

    Chris – thanks for explaining your way of thinking.

  • Meh

    “Well, for starters it’s a bit different to the claims of ‘ethnic cleansing’ from ‘terrorists’ that would more likely be the language of choice were the Brethren the victims of this particular attack. But, no, we’ve got ‘misguided’ persons to blame. ”

    Reading comprehension helps? they are saying that the Protestant’s who burn down GAA halls in retaliation are the ‘misguided’ persons as it legitimises those that wish to burn OO halls down..

  • picador

    Chris,

    Nothing to worry about. They were just taking the law into their own hands (as Ken Maginnis was wont to say).

  • skullion

    Apparently they don’t want loyalists to be provoked by other loyalists burning down Gaa clubs.Perhaps someone could explain that way of thinking.

  • Meh

    No. It’s chicken and egg stuff,and, they are clearly saying it’s all the fennians fault! after all it’s the Orange Order..

  • tim

    Did the OO ever release a statement about documents found in one of their halls in Stoneyford.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/504900.stm

  • Big Maggie

    Tim

    That’s the second time Stoneyford has been mentioned today on the topic of arson attacks. Is there something seriously wrong with that village or what? Just asking.

  • Chris,

    You appear to be looking for malice from the Orange Order when in reality their statement cannot be faulted for a)what was said and b)that it is sincere. The OO know full well what it is like to have their community’s halls attacked and can empthasise with the GAA.

  • RepublicanStones

    Ignited you miss the point. It was indeed strangely worded…actually no it wasn’t. It basically inferred that GAA halls are merely burnt as retaliation for the attacks on Orange Halls.

  • RS,

    The statement said ‘retaliation was the trap’ – I would say the same applies to both sets of idiots who are hell bent on burning orange halls and GAA club houses. I’m sure those who set out to burn down the GAA halls will be using the recent targeting of orange halls as their excuse to go about some criminal damage.

    The statement from the Orange was short:

    [i]”We condemn all attacks on halls in our community without reservation. And we appeal for no retaliation.

    “Retaliation is always a trap and the people who are burning our Orange Halls will be the ones who will be most pleased if misguided people from the Protestant community retaliate.

    “We call in the strongest possible terms for people to stay calm and not to react to provocation.
    “Leave it up to the police to investigate all arson attacks and put whatever resources they need to apprehend those responsible for these illegal acts.”[/i]

  • RepublicanStones

    Ignited, nice try, but the inference is perfectly clear. Orange Halls are always attacked first and GAA halss mere retaliation, therefore the blame lies with……

    Utter shite of course, but some people lap it up !

  • fair_deal

    Eyes roll, just keep looking even deeper and you will see that this statement is actually congratulating those who are burning down GAA halls, if you select 12 letters and re-order them it actualy says “great one lads”. Good Grief.

    The OO is going through a process of change perhaps better to start preparing to recognise that rather than imagining evidence that they haven’t that isn’t there.

  • eranu

    chris, you’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel in trying to put together a thread to make prods look bad. the OO are clearly telling people not to retaliate to attacks on their halls.

  • fair_deal,

    The OO is going through a process of change …

    Are you sure?

    [PS validation code: ‘never’ – uncanny!]

  • lee

    ‘The OO is going through a process of change perhaps better to start preparing to recognise that’

    True, far more terrorist glorification at parades than there used to be.

  • Wilde Rover

    Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland,

    “Retaliation is always a trap and the people who are burning our Orange Halls will be the ones who will be most pleased if misguided people from the Protestant community retaliate.”

    “American Heritage Dictionary
    mis·guid·ed
    Based or acting on error; misled: well-intentioned but misguided efforts; misguided do-gooders.

    Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
    misguided
    misled; mistaken: Their naive actions were a misguided attempt to help the poor.”

    So, let me see if I have this straight.

    People who burn down GAA halls are well intentioned but are mistaken, much like misguided do-gooders or people who make a mistake while trying to help the poor.

    I’m glad we’ve cleared that up.

  • slug

    The most authorititive dictionary for British English speakers is OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY.

    This dictionary defines as follows:

    ” 1. Guided in a wrong direction; spec. misdirected or mistaken in action or thought; foolish, ill-judged; having a wrong purpose or intention.

    2. Badly behaved, immoral. Obs.

    3. a. Mismanaged, misruled. Obs.

    b. Badly trained or reared. Obs. ”

    OEP Definition of misguided

    So lets see if we have this straight.

    People who burn down GAA halls are foolish, ill-judged, wrong.

    Glad we cleard that up.

  • Wilde Rover

    Slug,

    Two years ago Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland Secretary Drew Nelson said:

    “This summer, we have had two Orange Halls burnt down and, from now on, we will also be recording graffiti, broken windows and paint attacks, because the PSNI say they will also treat these as hate crimes if we perceive them as such.”

    We can use your definition for misguided if you like but since I’m not going to pay for a subscription to the link you provided I hope you will bear with me with the hate crime definition from dictionary.com below.

    “hate crime
    a crime, usually violent, motivated by prejudice or intolerance toward a member of a gender, racial, religious, or social group.”

    So, “People who burn down GAA halls are foolish, ill-judged, wrong.”

    But if burning down Orange halls is a hate crime, then:

    People who burn down Orange halls are violent criminals motivated by prejudice or intolerance towards a member of a gender, racial, religious or social group.

    I’m glad we’ve cleared that up.

  • slug

    Wilde Rover – I have no argument with your 12:16.

  • tim

    Gaa clubs being burned down and the UDA getting ready for battle.

    Coincidence, probably not.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7722352.stm

  • Cahal

    Weren’t the OO calling for public floggings for criminals a few months ago?

    Now they are labelling arsonists ‘misguided’.

    Unreal.

  • Big Maggie

    This thread has become a joke. Probably the sanest post was Fair Deal’s at 10.06 am. It’s obvious that the OO’s directive is well meaning: ‘Don’t retaliate; it’s wrong.’

    So the order’s English usage doesn’t conform to dictionary definitions? So fucking what? We’re not talking about parading professors here but simple, low-culture marching men. Why expect them to be language experts?

  • Chris Donnelly

    Big Maggie
    Actually, very many Orangemen are quite well qualified professionals, influential figures in the business community and in other speheres of life.

    It’s quite clear what the Order meant by this statement.

  • slug

    Chris & Big Maggie

    The major authority for meaning in British English is OED and it says:

    Misguided:

    ” 1. Guided in a wrong direction; spec. misdirected or mistaken in action or thought; foolish, ill-judged; having a wrong purpose or intention. ”

    So it does seem clear what the OO meant. Foolish and ill judged. Who could argue with that?

  • Chris Donnelly

    Slug

    Indeed. And I just know that ‘misjudged’ adjective will be used by the Order to describe the next ‘foolish’ catholic arsonists targeting Orange premises….

  • slugSo it does seem clear what the OO meant. Foolish and ill judged. Who could argue with that?

    A court of law? The police? A clergyman? The man on the Clapham omnibus?

    Words like ‘evil’, ‘criminal’, bigoted’, ‘hate-filled’, and so on, better fit the description.

    “Foolish”, ffs … ? We’re all foolish, but we don’t carry out criminal destruction of property, arson, maybe attempted murder. The OO was downplaying the seriousness of the crime by portraying it as a minor indiscretion, or a moment of ‘foolishness’.

    They were letting their fellow-travellers know, in easily deciferable code, that they don’t really disapprove. If they did, they’d have called the crime what it is.

  • Dexter

    This thread is a great illustration of what bigotry exists AGAINST the Orange Order.

    Dissecting that statement to try to reveal evil intent is an exercise in farce.

  • Reader

    Horseman: Words like ‘evil’, ‘criminal’, bigoted’, ‘hate-filled’, and so on, better fit the description.
    But when did calling people names ever stop them doing evil stuff? That isn’t what brought about the IRA ceasefire, is it? They had to be convinced that the killing and destruction wasn’t going to achieve their aims, or they would still be at it now.
    And these days does SF tell their people that it would be evil to riot, or merely that it would be counter-productive?
    And likewise, what are the Provos telling the dissidents?

  • slug

    Chris:

    Sinn Féin Councillor Peter Anderson (Bogside) following sectarian petrol and paint attacks on the Apprentice Boys Memorial Hall:

    “At a time when communities are striving to cement peace and encourage reconciliation it would appear that there is a small minority of misguided individuals living in the past. ”

    6 August, 2007
    Source: sinnfein.ie

  • Big Maggie

    Chris

    Actually, very many Orangemen are quite well qualified professionals, influential figures in the business community and in other spheres of life.

    Yes, but why do people here expect them to be semanticists?

    It’s quite clear what the Order meant by this statement.

    Yes again.

  • Chris Donnelly

    Slug

    equally wrong choice of comments by the quoted councillor.

    I’ve no problem stating that as I have for long argued that incidents need to be condemned in their own right without the too often spurious – and loaded- link to other incidents.

    Did he also suggest those attacking GAA halls or catholic homes or republican graves (delete appropriately) would be those most pleased and that the act was itself retaliatory?

  • Dexter,

    “This thread is a great illustration of what bigotry exists AGAINST the Orange Order.

    Dissecting that statement to try to reveal evil intent is an exercise in farce.”

    Interesting take Dexter.

    So if you return home to see me standing outside your burning house holding a petrol can and a lighter will you tell me I am foolish?

    That’s very big of you.

    Slug,

    Yes, Shinners are just as stupid as Orangemen.

  • The term ‘misguided’ is commonly used to describe people of relatively noble intentions who commit wrongs not because they are intrinsically evil but because their perceptions of social reality are inaccurate. If one uses a dictionary definition of the term, then one can hardly fault the Orange Order, but if one takes into account common usage, it becomes clear the view of events the Order wants to promote.

    As for contextualising attacks on GAA halls by referring to attacks on Orange halls, and seemingly classifing such attacks as ‘retaliation’, that reminds me of the bs that goes on at the UN whenever something to do with Israel is brought up. If somebody wants the members to condemn an illegal Israeli attack of some sort, the US will always insist that the attack is ‘contextualised’ by inserting text that refers to past ‘attacks’ of one’s enemies.

    While I certainly hope that the Orange Order and all of the other troublemakers of the North decide to put aside inflammatory rhetoric, I doubt that this is an example of moves toward such a position.