Unionist Councillors Veto ‘Freedom’ Move for ‘Goodwill’ Reverend

Unionist councillors in Limavady have vetoed a move to give the Freedom of Limavady Borough to a Protestant clergyman hounded from the town 20 years ago following his decision to shake hands with a Catholic priest and attend the re-opening of a catholic church which had been bombed by loyalists. Rev. David Armstrong subsequently received death threats from loyalists and faced a backlash within his presbyterian church, leading to his decision to leave the town. He is now an Anglican Minister in County Cork.
Ulster Unionist/ Conservative Party? councillor, Edwin Stevenson, commented last week of the proposed gesture, “This is something that unionists in the town will be very angry about.”

  • Greenflag

    DC

    ‘The essence of the problem is etc ‘

    The essence of the problem is that it has gone on too long to make any sense . It should have been wrapped up in 1972 or at the latest 1974 . The fact that all political parties are navel gazing is just symptomatic of a general almost congenital political idiocy on the part of the main parties .

    ‘‘War’ is over.’

    One would hope so . Alas there may be more than a few in the ranks of ‘eirigi ‘ and the TUV who aspire to another 40 year round of conflict 🙁

    ‘even under repartition the economic circumstances would have it that those placed back into the republic would be without accessible employment in that sphere.

    Thus, they would likely be drawn back into North Eastern Ireland for employment working under public sector contracts for a region-state they had just gotten away from. ‘

    So what ? Today people from Newry and other towns across the border travel to Dublin to work while remaining resident in NI . By moving the border North all that happens is that people no longer travel to a ‘foreign ‘ country to work by day and return to their own country by night .

    Nobody disputes that France and Germany are separate countries . That doesn’t stop French and Germans crossing their mutual border to work when it’s convenient and necessary . Same with Denmark and Germany -Holland and Germany etc etc .

    The same would be true of any new border as between the Republic and a smaller unionist State in the North East .We are all members of the EU . It’s unlikely that any new Unionist State would withdraw from the EU at least not in advance of British withdrawal .

    If as Paddy Reilly says a 90% unionist enclave is no longer ‘viable or feasible surely an 80 to 85% majority unionist area would be . As for ethnic ‘cleansing ‘ thats already largely been accomplished on the quiet during the past 30 years of political inertia .

  • PaddyReilly,

    I just don’t see the other bank as a different country or even viable as such.

    Of course. Nor do I. A repartitioned ‘mini-Ulster’ would be a joke like Transdniestria. NI is already too small for many purposes, and any attempt at separation by half of County Down would end in disaster – poverty, dependence, economic collapse, you name it …

    As Democratic says, it is all or nothing (though his reasons are a bit melodramatic). More sub-division will not improve on the existing bad job of partition.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “I assume you include Ian Paisley sr among them. He chucked aside his religious principles and climbed into bed with the sworn enemy, Sinn Fein.”

    …indeed I do BM- the true Christian can never be enamoured of the secular establishment, as the Ould Croc once understood

    “Leastways, in America, the Presbyterian Church has been taken over by the Liberals. The ‘Traditionalists’ are very embittered. They do have a point: the Liberals all signed up for the whole Westminster Confession stuff, and then voted it out of existence when they got into power.”
    Quite correct Paddy. What is it with Yanks? The prods are either WASPie tree huggers- like their episcopalians, or mad southern Baptists who think the Bilderberg group are a Satanic coven. The soundest conservatives are usually Roman Catholics there- here , Rcs are generally lefties!

    Bigoted presbyterians indeed exist- I’m one of ’em- but in a healthy way i.e. strenuously opposed to the twin errors and false doctrinesof popery and prelacy. if they’ve got bishops, they’re baad news

    I know some of the background of Armstrong’s churches in 1982, and I’m pretty sure that the majority of the congregation were well enough disposed to him, and quiet bridge building ( which goes on nearly everywhere in NI, thank God), but many -if not most- were turned off by the media circus that accompanied it.

  • ggn

    Horseman,

    “any attempt at separation by half of County Down would end in disaster – poverty, dependence, economic collapse, you name it … ”

    Why?

    Would the people of Cultra really miss the people of Kilcoo? I doubt it.

  • ggn,

    Would the people of Cultra really miss the people of Kilcoo?

    If they kept receiving their generous pay-outs from London, I guess Cultra could get along fine. They’d probably see themselves more as Monaco than Transdniestria.

    Actually ‘mini-Ulster’ sounds better every time I think about it …. good restaurants, yacht clubs, an airport, IKEA, Palace Barracks (just in case …), and so on. Luxembourg on the Lough ….

  • DC

    “Nobody disputes that France and Germany are separate countries . That doesn’t stop French and Germans crossing their mutual border to work when it’s convenient and necessary . Same with Denmark and Germany -Holland and Germany etc etc.”

    So why repartition, just because a few politicians have egocentric problems linked to the negative electoral grassroots that make them in turn speak negatively like in a sort of demented straitjacket.

    I think your overplaying your hand here and most certainly underplaying the desires of the two sovereign countries and the people of Northern Ireland.

    I can’t believe you still come on here about repartition. I just don’t get it at all, really – it is an option that can be viewed as an historic option, one that was overlooked particularly at 1920-21 time and in the 80s.

    Politics is shifting towards influencing societal behaviour and conditioning for potential unification using political persuasion and valid economic arguments.

    Ethno-cultural border re-drawing is not an option nor is it reflective of the modern shift away from state-crafting to market-states or region states. Northern Ireland needs a building up of private sector work, good jobs and if the UK arrangements are a burden to that then it will be time to take decisions using clear heads, not a pair of crude geopolitical scissors, we’ve already tried that anyway.

  • Bemused

    Utterly disingenuous stuff Darth – by your logic the celebration or commendation of any person, thing or event which person, thing or event was in any way resisted, disliked, distrusted or otherwise viewed adversely by the protestant side of the community, is impossible without some form of esoteric ‘consultation’ with the protestant community and some form of offical disclaimer along the lines of “While we are gathered here today to honour the contribution to civic life of John Hume let no one be in any doubt that we are DEFINITELY NOT in honouring John Hume seeking to insult, denigrate or in any other way annoy the protestant community…..” Utter, utter bollocks my friend and you know it. For as long as civic unionism continues to give cover to the vermin in their midst you’ll continue your relentless march to oblivion.

  • Joyce

    Luxembourg is full of people who work for a living.

  • darth rumsfeld

    bemused- You don’t bewitch or bother but certainly bewilder me with that last hysterical post.

    I would be sorry if you couldn’t see the obvious but of course you do. You understand it’s cheap politics but you’re happy to play along with the outrage cos it gets you the chance to put the words Unionism and vermin in the same sentence- boy I bet that was a thrill, and only six tiny words between them.

    You can give John Hume, David Trimble, Ian Paisley and whoever you want as many honours as you want without consulting me and mine. But each and every award is not a divine gift for saintly behaviour- it’s a political act, just like giving out gongs at Buckingham Palace is a political act. And the political act here- as you so kindly remind us- is that Limavady’s nationalist councillors were still a laughing stock after the War of the Royal Wedding Mug and wanted their wee chance to put the Unionists on the back foot. Effective sectarian politicking, but…er.. wasn’t that sort of thing supposed to be left to the Unionist vermin?

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    “Bigoted presbyterians indeed exist- I’m one of ‘em’…”

    ….and no doubt that’s set in stone too!

    No point in debating anthing then Darth, keep your head in that bible and keep those marching shoes polished and soled!

  • Democratic

    “Politics is shifting towards influencing societal behaviour and conditioning for potential unification using political persuasion and valid economic arguments”
    Are they? – who is doing this exactly – or more importantly who is doing this that haven’t always been doing it from year 1. Look – it boils down to this – unification is an issue that “economic arguments” and “political persuasion” are simply masks of civility shoved on over crude romantic notions and emotive thinking – my view is that most people on both sides (ie the working classes that don’t have much in the way of business or economic interests)would much rather live in a Irish state completely free of British governance or a British state free of dissenting Irish Republicans (respectively) even if it meant financial hardship and daily struggle – you only have to look at the early days of the ROI for your evidence…re-unification will eventually be something that will be imposed – never welcomed or agreed on…repartition will never happen for the reason that a 3 county state would be unsustainable in the long run but moreover because romantic Nationalism would never countenance it no matter what practical arguements there are or arent…

  • Hank Horan

    So Darth, better that a good deed not be done, i.e. a wronged man NOT being honoured for his goodness, rather than have Limavady nationalists afforded a “gotcha-back” against the Unionists in bestowing such an honour (that gotcha-back being in the offing from nationalists, since they were redfaced about the Royal Mug cafuffle ), is that it?

    Of course, the Unionists could have had that cake and eat it if they had agreed to the honour, but that would not have been obvious to them, and so the nationalists wiped the floor with them in the PR battle…

  • Greenflag

    DC ,

    ‘So why repartition ‘

    Because NI is not a Denmark nor a France nor a Germany . NI’s population is a deeply divided on diametrically opposing views on the States longer term existence. The Danes or the French or the people of the Irish Republic don’t have that situation.

    ‘just because a few politicians have egocentric problems linked to the negative electoral grassroots that make them in turn speak negatively like in a sort of demented straitjacket.’

    If what you say above was a a temporary condition I’d say fair enough, but the fact is , it isn’t temporary -it’s systemic . Politicians in NI have always been condemned to wearing ‘strait jackets’ ever since the State was established . You might even say the ‘asylum ‘ came already equipped with ‘jackets’. And so it came to pass that after 50 years in the niche, many Unionist politicians forgot they were wearing ‘strait jackets’ and many more even forgot they were residents of a political asylum .

    In the late 1960’s the ‘asylum’ doors were blown open and the ‘strait jacketed’ inmates found themselves unable to deal with the real world and were thus put out of their misery in 1972 by a ‘caring ‘ Mr Heath .

    Despite a long period of ‘rehabilitation’ and some attempts at adjusting former ‘inmates ‘ to the early 21 st century we see that many still prefer the world of the 1950’s . Leading members of the DUP now ‘babble ‘ in tongues while others profess the Earth is just 6,000 years old:(
    As I understand it they are allowed to perform the above ‘rites’ and hold such beliefs without having to wear the wrap arounds much in vogue with the ‘demented’ fraternity.

    ‘Ethno-cultural border re-drawing is not an option’

    The post communist experience of former Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia and Baltic States show us that it is . What’s so ‘special’ about NI that makes a redrawing of it’s outdated border impossible ?

    ‘nor is it reflective of the modern shift away from state-crafting to market-states or region states. ‘

    Slovenia , Lithuania , Latvia, and many other former communist states are now EU members and even Serbia is preparing to apply .

    ‘Northern Ireland needs’

    Yes we all know what Northern Ireland needs . But most of all it needs not to be there . It needs to be repartitioned between both ‘nationalisms’ Irish and British Unionist and the Czechoslovakian ‘model ‘ is the one to follow .

  • darth rumsfeld

    “No point in debating anthing then Darth”

    au contraire mon cher
    You too may be predestined to be one of the elect, and by casting my pearls before a large number of (sorry) swine I fulfil my responsibility to make sure no one can say they weren’t warned as the flames of Hell lick their tootsies

  • Greenflag

    DC ,

    ‘Politics is shifting towards influencing societal behaviour and conditioning for potential unification using political persuasion and valid economic arguments.’

    The old ‘social engineering model ‘ or ‘political engineering more likely ‘ 🙁 A version of the subliminal mass marketing model founded by Herr Goebbels and now much practiced and perfected in mass advertising in the ‘free’ world ?

    Not going to work . The ‘patients’ are too far gone and dug too deep in their respective ruts .

    Far better to be open and honest about the patent ‘nonsense ‘ of a UI being delivered anytime in this century or the next

    We Irish should try to bring as many of ‘our northern people ‘ into the Irish State as is possible . This can best be achieved through a fair repartition administered by a neutral international organisation such as the UN or EU .

    Unionists have been very consistent in maintaining since partition that they do see themselves as ‘our’ people . Given their local majority in the NE of NI they have earned a legitimate right to their own State . Whether such a State is viable or not or whatever it’s subsequent future would be a matter for Unionists themselves and with whomsoever they wish to include in their deliberations .

  • ggn

    Greenflag,

    I have to say that no-one really looked at my point on religon. I think that it could be a barrier to repartition actually.

    North Down for example may have little in common with South Down but it seems to me to be quite secular.

    This class may could well be very resistant to repartition as it would leave them in a very religous and right wing state, unless voting patterns would change, which they probably would of course.

    And you are forgetting the biggest barrier to repartition.

    Water.

    Humans cannot survive without it and because nationalists are concentrated in the more mountainous areas and on the bogs around Lough Neagh they would control to a large extent the water supply to Belfast and surrounding districts.

    How would water supply be guaranteed? I mean if the Mournes were held by nationalists they could simply turn off Belfast’s water supply. A fact always overlooked when discussions arise concerning the military capability of the Free State Army / Óglaigh na hÉireann / Irish Defence Forces.

  • Democratic

    “A fact always overlooked when discussions arise concerning the military capability of the Free State Army / Óglaigh na hÉireann / Irish Defence Forces.”
    Lol – watch out rebellious Northern Prods – our boys have a big spanner and aren’t afraid to use it….

  • ggn

    “Far better to be open and honest about the patent ‘nonsense ‘ of a UI being delivered anytime in this century or the next”

    The thing is I dont not believe that unionists would contenance repartition until the numbers of nationalist out number themselves.

    Then it will be the only show in town for unionism – and probably the southern government / establishment, i.e. in the face of insurrection, bombs in Dublin, conscription etc.

    However I think that that is a far way off, which takes things back to square one.

    I think many nationalists would be prepared to give repartition some serious thought. However few nationalists would be prepared to leave others behind, what sort of life could they look forward to?

    For example, what about the area round Portaferry in the Ards, it would be very wrong to leave that area behind but I suspect that unionists would want to keep as much territory as possible, even if that left them with a rump of nationalists.

    As you say it would need to be down by a neutral body and in my view on the basis on the smallest unit possible, electoral ward or townland, which would leave many islands.

  • … unionists would want to keep as much territory as possible …

    That’s what got them into this mess in the first place! If they hadn’t been so greedy in 1922-25, they would be sitting pretty in a smaller NI that would be comfortably Prod till doomsday. But they insisted on having Derry, Tyrone, Fermanagh, all of Armagh and all of Down. Silly decision, in hindsight.

  • ggn

    “That’s what got them into this mess in the first place!”

    Perhaps rather the mistake was made three hundred years ago, if Catholics had been cleared completely from Ulster then there probably would not be a problem either.

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    “Perhaps rather the mistake was made three hundred years ago, if Catholics had been cleared completely from Ulster then there probably would not be a problem either. ”

    True, but also, there was never really a vigorous attempt to convert Catholics to Protestants in Ireland after Cromwells campaign, (bar the enticement of the odd bowl of soup during the Great famine). Catholics were abandoned, left to linger in their poverty and peasantry, and their popish faith which was all they had, I suppose!

    Greenflag,

    If repartition were to occur and the lines/borders redrawn, the small enclave of Unionist terrority coud hardly be still called ‘Northern Ireland’.

    Some reference to ‘Britishness’ would have to be included in the diminutive statelet ..ie Little Britain?, Little England?, British Ireland? British Ulster? Eire beag? New Israel, Jesus country?, Orange country etc….
    Of course it would be up to the good Unionist folk to name their newly redefined terrority!

    Would be kinda like Amish country too, so behind the times, stuck in the 1950’s, or indeed earlier like the 17th century! ‘No Stangers Welcome, Keep Out!’

    I do wish we changed our Tri-colour flag and removed that Orange bit too!

  • ggn

    Greenflag,

    Are you a member of a political party or just a blog lurker?

    Are you pushing this at any party level?

    Are you giving any thought o the mechanics of re-partition?

  • Greenflag

    ggn ,

    ‘Water’

    One of my favourite films starring Michael Caine, Leonard Rossiter and Billy Connolly 🙂

    ‘How would water supply be guaranteed’

    Very simple – Treat your small Irish minority right and you get the water . Don’t treat them right and it’s a costly desalination plant in Carrickfergus 😉

    ‘As you say it would need to be down by a neutral body’

    No point otherwise . Backed up of by both sovereign power’s miltaries in reserve, and a UN/EU peacekeeping force on the ground .

    ‘That’s what got them into this mess in the first place! If they hadn’t been so greedy in 1920.

    They could have been greedier .

    Like the three bears there were three choices

    Too greedy – 9 counties
    Not too greedy – 6 counties
    Just right greedy – 4 counties
    Totally ungreedy
    & economically insane -0 counties

    The passage of time and the ‘troubles ‘ has moved the present demographic map of NI (6 cunties ) very close to the demographics of what a 9 county NI would have looked like in 1920 with a small 53% to 47% Unionist majority. Back in 1920 a 9 county NI would have given Unionists a 1 or 2 % majority . One presumes the eventual ‘blow up’ would not have waited until 1968 under those demographics ? On the other hand it might have forced earlier political accomodation from the Unionist side of the house ?

  • DC

    Democratic & Greenflag – have you not read the Good Friday Agreement.

    End of.

  • Greenflag

    ggn

    ‘if Catholics had been cleared completely from Ulster then there probably would not be a problem either.’

    To be historically accurate the O’Neill’s , O’Donnell’s , McDonnell’s , Maguires and others had done a fair enough job between them at clearing the province of ‘Catholics’ for the century or so preceding the ‘plantation ‘ . It was an adage of the O’Neills that one slept better with the head of an O’Donnell between one’s knees – removed of course from it’s body 😉

    Scots earleir had already crossed to coastal counties Down and Antrim to find refuge from the ‘border’ wars along the Anglo Scot border, where the main income generating activity at the time was cattle rustling . In the midst of an increasingly colder Scotland it was after all the period of the onset of the Little Ice Age people people tried to moved ‘south ‘ . The English were a united polity at the time and could thus ‘resist’ the desperate Scots . Ulster and Ireland was a conglomeration of mini states surrounding the Dublin pale with a few larger chieftains such as the O’Neill’s vying for or evolving towards Kingship . But even the Great O’Neill did’nt see himself as a future King of all Ireland

    Anyway all ancient history and not of much use as we try to move forward .

  • Greenflag

    ggn,

    ‘Are you a member of a political party’

    To paraphrase the Great Marxist Groucho -I refuse to join any political party which would accept me as a member .

    ‘Are you pushing this at any party’

    I will throw a party when a new border comes into effect :). Everybody invited including former Unionists ( or whatever they will call themselves ) and former UI supporters ( or whatever they will call themselves)

    ‘Are you giving any thought to the mechanics of re-partition? ‘

    That would be an ecumenical matter to be decided by said neutral international agencies and not by Father Jack Hackett or the Rev Ian Paisley or any NI or British or Irish political party . They can all make submissions to such an agency of course .

    Some people would prefer to look at the NI census for 100 years and say when will we win the numbers game and have a UI.

    I prefer to look at the NI census and say sod that for a lark why not ‘repartition ‘ the failed entity now and move on .

  • Greenflag

    DC,

    ‘have you not read the Good Friday Agreement. ‘

    Yes and the Sunningdale Agreement and the 1921 Treaty and the Treaty of Limerick and the St Andrews and the Boundary Commission report .

    The funny thing is that many of the above ‘agreements ‘ were’nt agreements at all at all. They only served to suit the victorious parties or leaders or politicians of the time.
    When they were found to be at odds with harsh political realities they somehow turned into pieces of paper that were worthless 🙁

    Such is the human condition .

    end of

  • ggn

    Greenflag,

    Sorry, then its just all blogtalk unless you are doing something about it.

    “Some people would prefer to look at the NI census for 100 years and say when will we win the numbers game and have a UI.”

    Actually, I agree with you there. Which is why I am prepare to give re-partition some thought.

    I don’t believe that there will be a united Ireland even if the numbers were for it.

    I believe that unionism would not roll over. They would and demand repartition and loyalist paras would threaten / partake in violence in my view.

    I see no stomach in Irish nationalism to fight a war to subjew them, even in the north. Who would lay down their lives to capture Newtownards?

    So where would you go from there? It would probably be some sort of repartition.

  • Greenflag

    greagoir o frainclin

    ‘ there was never really a vigorous attempt to convert Catholics to Protestants in Ireland after Cromwells campaign’

    Sometimes I wonder GOF if you live on the same planet as I 😉

    I mean whats the bloody point of converting people to your faith (protestantism ) if by doing so you can’t steal their land from them . Even the dumbest protestant minister could figure that one out 😉

    Anyway adventurers and looters/pillagers etc don’t go in for conversion .

    I await with baited breadth the huge lines of financial tyro members of New Yorks synagogues lining up outside the Holy Trinity Episcopal Church or St Patrick’s Cathedral in Manhattan trying to convert the emisserated proddies and papists of Manhattan 😉

    Human nature ole bean

  • Greenflag

    ggn ,

    ‘I see no stomach in Irish nationalism to fight a war to subjew them, even in the north’

    Right , and what’s with this sub jew business .? I would’nt involve the jews in this -it’s already complicated enough 🙂 Anyway there’s not enough around to make a difference . Mind you a couple of thousand Israelis could probably take ‘out’ the province in a few hours .

    ‘ Who would lay down their lives to capture Newtownards? ‘

    Somebody with an IQ of minus 14 so in NI that would be maybe 10 people? 😉

    ‘So where would you go from there? It would probably be some sort of repartition.’

    Precisely . Save all the time wasting and hot air and wind bagging and get the job done in advance by a neutral internatioanl agency . There’s been more than enough suffering and misery inflicted on the people of NI for the past generation . Why drag it on for several more ? Pointless .

  • PaddyReilly

    Oh my god. In my absence, Greenflag has turned this into a repartition thread. Here’s some of his points.

    If as Paddy Reilly says a 90% unionist enclave is no longer ‘viable or feasible surely an 80 to 85% majority unionist area would be.

    If you count Alliance and Greens as Unionist it might, but not in an area much greater than the Ards.

    As for ethnic ‘cleansing ‘ thats already largely been accomplished on the quiet during the past 30 years of political inertia .

    There was one demographic geographer who said that the population changes of the 70s constituted ‘de facto repartition’. However, it did not create anything you could draw a line around. In Fermanagh, Protestants may have moved away from the border areas, but they’re still capable of getting a majority in the North of the county. And supposedly ‘ethnically cleansed’ FST still returns 3 Nat and 3 Unionist MLAs. If that’s ethnic cleansing they should fire the cleaning staff.

    Just right greedy – 4 counties

    Devil in the details, Green. But suppose we place Fermanagh and South Tyrone in the Republic, what difference will that make to the sectarian composition of Stormont? Lose 3 nat, 3 Unionists: absolutely none. Put the rest of Tyrone in the Republic, and that might leave the Nationalists 2 down. Result: everything as before, just that the fighting goes on for a couple of years longer. Brilliant.

    By moving the border North all that happens is that people no longer travel to a ‘foreign ‘ country to work by day and return to their own country by night.

    But your border, taking liberties as it does with the greater Belfast area, would probably mean the number of people crossing the border to get to work would be doubled or trebled.

    Good point about the desalination plant at Carrigfergus though. Though when one statelet is created in defiance of history, geography and economic realities and in a fashion such that it cannot possibly function economically without the consent of its larger neighbour, we generally refer to it as a Bantustan. The Gaza strip is a good example of this happening. However this has not led to peace, so it seems a waste of time.

    The constituencies of Upper Bann and East Londonderry will have Nationalist majorities before too long. The constituencies of North and South Antrim both have Catholic minorities of 30%. Obviously if they are included in your imaginary state nothing will change: the same political impasse will prevail.

    So my advice: either take a good look at the feasibility of your ideas vis a vis the demographics, or confine yourself to promoting the canonisation of the Blessed Wycliff, Saint and Martyr.

  • ggn

    “In Fermanagh, Protestants may have moved away from the border areas, but they’re still capable of getting a majority in the North of the county”

    Why couldnt they just form a detached portion of the the uk then?

  • ggn

    Perhaps balanced by the Antrim glens being a detacted portion of the Republic.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/2001religionwardsni1.jpg

    I am not advocating it. I just am interested in the discussion and do believe it will be advocated by most unionists in due course.

  • PaddyReilly

    Why couldnt they just form a detached portion of the the uk then?

    Because it isn’t a very big majority. If a few of them were to die off it would be gone. This is not the way states are formed.

  • Greenflag

    paddyreilly,

    My apologies for omitting a line item in the 9,6, 4,0 multile listing of Unionist greed level choices in the earlier post. Can you believe it I omitted the 2 county or specifically 2 county size option which I recommended a couple of years or was it decades ago ?. Others have called this the ‘Double Luxembourg’ deal as a new post repartition Unionist State would be twice the size of Luxembourg.

    ‘would probably mean the number of people crossing the border to get to work would be doubled or trebled.’

    So ? It would’nt matter if it quintupled or even more . It’s good for people to visit ‘foreign ‘ countries now and again. Said to broaden the mind that kind of thing ;). Admittedly twice a day – five days a week could be considered excessive, but only by those lacking in imagination.

    I take your point re Gaza but in the present ‘globalised world ‘ such that it is we are all ‘bantustans. The near term economic futures of families living in Woking , Killarney ,Letterkenny, Ulan Bator and Peking is being largely determined by the decisions that and are being made by politicians across the larger pond west of this island .

    ‘So my advice: either take a good look at the feasibility of your ideas vis a vis the demographics, or confine yourself to promoting the canonisation of the Blessed Wycliff, Saint and Martyr. ‘

    If I had to (which I don’t ) take your advice ‘ I’ll go for the canonisation of Blessed Wycliff as there’s a better chance of that happening in this century than a UI being achieved through the only method likely to achieve it i.e an excess of UI votes in NI over pro UK votes .

    PS – I’ll look at the demographics when the next census comes around whenever that is 😉

  • Greenflag

    ggn,

    ‘I do believe it will be advocated by most unionists in due course.’

    So do I . Alas as with most ‘initiatives’ emanating from the unionist political establishment this past 80 plus years it will of course arrive too little and too late and be a complete f**k up . Which is why I heartily recommend Irish Nationalists to do it for them. After all what are neighbours for except to help each other when the going gets rough or the rough get going 😉

  • PaddyReilly

    I’ll go for the canonisation of Blessed Wycliff as there’s a better chance of that happening in this century than a UI being achieved through the only method likely to achieve it i.e an excess of UI votes in NI over pro UK votes. PS – I’ll look at the demographics when the next census comes around whenever that is 😉

    Good line, but it’s a waste of time working from the censuses, as the fact of baptism is not a sufficiently reliable indicator of voting intentions in a UI poll, and secondly far too may people fail to state their religion.

    You might like to look out for the next European Parliament elections, in 9 months time, which should be a nail biter. But it seems to me that your prognostications are also 80 years out of date.

  • Greenflag

    paddyreilly.

    ‘as the fact of baptism is not a sufficiently reliable indicator of voting intentions in a UI poll’

    I did’nt say it was . Anyway it’s hardly ethical to drag a prod or papist new born straight from the baptismal font to the polling booth to make their mark for the appropriate denomination /political party . I believe standard practice in most democracies is to allow an intervening period of usually 18 years ;).

    ‘your prognostications are also 80 years out of date.’

    I know paddy – I’ve always been ahead of my time 🙂

  • Comic book Guy

    (6 cunties )

    Best Freudian slip ever