Gerry Adams and truth

Gerry Adams has been doing a few interesting things of late. As Pete has noted below, he has been in a form of correspondence with the Orange Order. In addition he has implied that he would support a truth commission with comments including this:

“Republicans have clearly acknowledged many times the hurt they inflicted during the conflict.
“I have expressed my personal and sincere regret and apologised for that hurt.
“The IRA has also acknowledged what it has done. That is the right and proper thing to do.”

Of course unless Mr. Adams has had some form of Damascus Road conversion all this interest must be seen as his previous wish for what might be called a quarter truth process. He is prepared to admit that the IRA killed people (difficult to avoid that one) but of course explains that unfortunately bad Prods or Brits (depending on the audience and often he seems not to distinguish between them) drove the IRA to it and that that explains and essentially forgives the unfortunate times when the IRA did things which cannot be seen as anything other than sectarian. When a given crime is utterly and completely impossible to explain away it becomes a one off or a mistake: a mistake for which they have already apologised. Except of course those one offs do tend to mount up.

Adams himself of course does not want to tell us what he truly knows about any of the murders here. He has certainly threatened legal action in the past. Equally McGuinness hardly wants a discussion of the circumstances surrounding the murder of a number of people in Londonderry such as Frank Hegarty. Were they not so sickening, the denials of any significant IRA involvement by Adams and McGuinness would be comical. They do, however, make belief in any truth from them completely impossible.

In contrast of course Adams wants to castigate the British, unionists and everyone else for a supposed vast conspiracy against the nationalist population and make a truth of the lie that practically all the loyalist murders involved collusion and that practically all the security forces were involved in this collusion. That of course helps explain away a good many more murders: suddenly the policeman on patrol was actually colluding with loyalists rather than trying to stop general crime or that the UDR man was colluding whilst milking the cows. Of course if the British government did detail all the loyalist / security force collusion there would be some significant pain for the British government and security forces. However, since such collusion was very limited, it is extremely likely that Adams would be able to denounce the Brits as still holding information back. A position which would be helped by the vast conspiracy Brit / loyalist conspiracy the republican movement has created as one of its favourite Shibboleths.

The reason why I call it a quarter truth process is that as well as not wanting to tell the whole IRA truth Adams clearly does not want the “Brits” to tell the whole truth. He wants no comments on the security forces penetration of the IRA. Not for him the possibility that those who died in the hail of SAS bullets at Loughgall had been set up by one of their own number: worse still if it had been done by the IRA leadership to get rid of inconvenient people. Certainly not the possibility that leading republicans and SF leaders were actually giving information to the British: that would never do.

The question does of course arise as to why Adams is doing this now? Clearly he may have a number of motivations. The apparent failure thus far to force the DUP’s hand on policing and justice along with the failure to make progress on the Irish language and the Maze stadium may both be playing fairly ill in republican circles. To up the ante with these sorts of issues which can be guaranteed to antagonise unionists and please republicans is of course a good idea. In addition when the DUP et al. inevitably denounce his latest manoeuvrings Adams can play one of his favourite roles: that of the thoughtful intellectual trying to hold out the hand of friendship to his former enemies and being rebuffed. In addition any slight wavering by any unionist in their approach to Adams can be heralded as an example of the walls of unionism beginning to splinter and a sign of imminent further republican victory.

An additional motivation for Adams is likely to be the soon to come Eames Bradley report. Eames Bradley have of course been repeatedly attacked from many quarters but to begin now to appear to support a report which is very likely to be well received everywhere outside Northern Ireland (as any supposedly “moving forward” typed initiative is) would be a good idea. Furthermore a pretended willingness to participate in a “truth and reconciliation” typed event would help divert attention away from republicans’ failure to cooperate with Eames Bradley. It would allow Adams to say effectively: “Look we are interested in such things and I said it as long ago as September 2008, months before Eames Bradley came out.” The fact that this would be utter nonsense would most likely be lost on many outsiders and of course ignored by republicans.

To an extent this is absolutely classic of the Adams / McGuinness approach of the last couple of decades: whilst McGuinness gets on with the day to day political fight with the DUP et al. Adams continues to prepare the ground further in the future especially with international opinion. One has to admit that they are extremely good at their work. The question remains, however, have they factored in the possibility of the DUP continuing to hold the line on P&J etc. and grass roots republican reaction to this. I strongly suspect they have and whether or not the executive is collapsed; I have little doubt the republican movement has a number of strategies prepared for each and every eventuality.

  • Dewi

    Hey – you might want to read Powell and indeed Adams’s latest book – it’s complex Turgon and the road to peace is difficult and depends where you have come from – but this doesn’t help.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Turgon,

    whatever about the reasons behind Grizzly’s motivation regarding disclosure and explanation of the past it seems like SF may he heading in the right direction.

    I think it safe to assume that SF would not be moving down this road unless it was likely to benefit them and this is where as you suggest there are a number of problem areas for SF.

    For example the allegations of ethnic cleansing in Fermanagh alluded to recently on another thread would be potentially extremely damaging to SF if shown to be fully grounded in fact and if part of a deliberate policy.

    Considering that the British have been very forthcoming in relation to the very expensive Bloody Sunday investigation SF should be reciproating by at least explaining some of their more controversial actions.

  • Dewi

    There were 112 people killed in Fermanagh in the Troubles. Each and every one of those a tragedy.

    Bosnia That’s ethic cleansing however – not the same thing.

  • KieranJ

    The silliness never stops. The constant drumbeat of idiocy that never addresses the blatant fact that the Ulster province will never know peace so long as it is seperated from the rest of Ireland.

    Now that is a truth that cannot be disputed.

  • Doctor Who

    KieranJ

    My God, you´ve nailed it. Was it really that simple all the time and as you say indisputable.

  • “Gerry Adams has been doing a few interesting things of late.”

    Turgon, you’ve overlooked his recent unheralded trip to Rathlin Island. Of little significance you might think yet when I mentioned it on the Devenport Diaries the post was referred to the moderators – and buried. The mods belatedly mentioned that there was a problem with the contents but hadn’t the guts to specify what it was.

    The DRD’s principal secretary, Paul Priestly, has instigated a three-part internal inquiry. According to the Grapevine, the investigators have acknowledged that some of the material they’ve been processing could be deeply embarrassing, not just to the DRD but also to the DFP.

    Tendering problems during the Murphy/Robinson watch are not limited to the Rathlin ferry contract. They’ve also surfaced in the recent court case involving McLaughlin & Harvey and the DFP’s Central Procurement Directorate.

    Gerry’s words may have brought some comfort to the islanders but life for Murphy and Robinson may get tougher before it gets easier.

  • Richard James

    Dewi,

    Did you pay attention to the bit in Powell’s book where he tells Adams he never believed Adams wasn’t in the IRA?

  • Dewi

    “Did you pay attention to the bit in Powell’s book where he tells Adams he never believed Adams wasn’t in the IRA?”

    Yes – I’m glad Adams was on the Army Council – or there would still be conflict now.

  • Richard James

    Are you also glad about what Adams did on the “Army” Council? The sectarian assasinations, the no warning bombings? Are you glad about other aspects of Adams career, the murder of Jean McConville, Bloody Friday?

  • Ranger1640

    Is pious Gerry trying to become the next true Irish saint, we all know Pat was a Brit blow in?

    Is it true that he walked across the water to Rathlin and feed the islanders some soda bread and tuna toasties?

  • Dewi

    “Are you also glad about what Adams did on the “Army” Council? The sectarian assasinations, the no warning bombings? Are you glad about other aspects of Adams career, the murder of Jean McConville, Bloody Friday? ”

    No.

  • Seer

    @Dewi

    There were 112 people killed in Fermanagh in the Troubles. Each and every one of those a tragedy.

    Bosnia That’s ethic cleansing however – not the same thing.

    Besides the point. The numbers and effectiveness of any campaign do not assign the definition of whether it was ethnic cleansing or not. It is ethnic cleansing if the intention was to “cleanse” a given geographical area of a certain ethnicity. If the IRA campaign in the area was designed to get Protestants to sell up and move out of the area, disrupt the inheritance of farms to Protestant sons etc. then it qualifis as being a campaign of ethnic cleansing. Those are the allegations. They stand as being neither proven nor disproven at this point.

  • Jimmy

    Republicans have clearly acknowledged many times the hurt they inflicted during the conflict.
    “I have expressed my personal and sincere regret and apologised for that hurt.
    “The IRA has also acknowledged what it has done. That is the right and proper thing to do.”

    Thats nice of oul Gerry, perhaps first he should apologise (a real apology) to an entire generation,espically to the Nationalist,of youth that knew nothing else but that phoney war he and his fellow travellers inflicted, the UCMC had the courage to do it, why not the IRA-SF.He has to acknowledge that the IRA campaign was also wrong first, thats something I think he will refuse to do,truth comes only when one accepts that wrong has been done.No regrets or acknowledgements will suffice, he blames others for the same wrongs except for his.

  • Seer

    @Jimmy

    He has to acknowledge that the IRA campaign was also wrong first, thats something I think he will refuse to do,truth comes only when one accepts that wrong has been done.

    The IRA’s campaign was immoral in conception not just in execution. This is because forcing Northern Ireland into a united Ireland without consent would have been immoral. Even if the IRA had have conducted their campaign in the manner of Gandhi they would still have been in the wrong. Too many accusations of what was wrong with the IRA focuses on the immorality of their actions and misses this point. Though it is only through the IRA de facto accepting this (if not de jure) through the GFA that the conflict could come to an end.

    Nationalists often talk of equality and many even genuinely support it in most areas, but the great block comes in accepting the ultimate equality – that the unionist people of Ireland have the same identical rights of self determination that the nationalist people of Ireland have, equivalent and comparable in every way. Only when accepted can a compromise be reached to sort out the ethnogeographically untidy situation that we are faced with.

  • Dewi

    Yes – I’m glad Adams was on the Army Council – or there would still be conflict now

    You’re deluded. Don’t believe everything that Gerry Adams says to hide the truth about himself. He is a profoundly deluded man who has profoundly deluded others. Gerry is the beast – a very masculine man who set out to undermine the SDLP’s female response to oppression, and who can therefore only lead us into more conflict. Adams is simply preparing for hitting the high moral ground he needs to fight the civil war that he knows is ahead when the big fallout with all of unionism is complete.

    Why Gerry Adams is the Antichrist!

    First of all, I believe that Gerry Adams is the Antichrist because of the coincidence that his name comes out at 666 on my numeric alphabet (see Appendix 1), a numeric alphabet that I discovered during my years at St Columb’s College in Derry and further investigated during my years at University College Galway. If his name didn’t come at 666, using some reasonable means, then I would not believe that he is the Antichrist. He would simply be to me just another delinquent who leads a very large conspiracy to undermine Ireland.

    Second of all, due to another pertinent coincidence his name contains “Adam”, the name of the first man, and from a theological point of view, this adds much to the basis of him being the Antichrist. Adam coincidentally means ‘man’ in Hebrew, and the number of the beast is specifically described as “man’s number” (Rev 13:18).

    These are extraordinary coincidences and not to dismissed by any means by any intelligent observer of matters theological.

    The apostle Paul wrote: “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive” (1 Cor 15:22). Adam therefore symbolises death, and thus the question must be asked, is there significance to the ‘Adam’ in Gerry Adams’ name? Does Gerry Adams, the effective leader of the IRA’s republican movement, symbolise death?

    The descriptions of the beasts in the Book of Revelation are interesting.

    ‘The inhabitants worshipped the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed,’ (Rev 13:12). Coincidentally, Gerry Adams was shot and wounded in 1984, but recovered. Afterwards, he became Sinn Fein president and one of the foremost politicians in Northern Ireland. The use of violence for him is a matter of tactics. That is a matter of fact and record. Gerry Adams has not stepped away from violence. He believes in his own words that “there is a time for peace and a time for war”, mocking the Prince of Peace and equating Christ with the Antichrist, good with evil.

    The first beast, who is said to be the Antichrist, is prophesied to have “seven heads” (Rev 13:1), which is coincidentally the number of heads on the IRA army council, including Gerry Adams’ allegedly.

    “Who can make war against him?” (Rev 13:7). The IRA has been described as ‘the most sophisticated terrorist organisation in the history of mankind’. Their structure makes it impossible for a conventional army to defeat them

    Gerry Adams fulfilled another prophecy during the run-up to the 2007 Assembly election campaign in the North of Ireland. This involved him requesting the use of Clonard Monastery (Roman Catholic) church in West Belfast for a political meeting discussing his party’s policy. He still believed that armed struggle was a legitimate means of resolving differences.

    When Gerry Adams took to the altar of Clonard monastery while his beliefs were in conflict with Christ’s teaching, he was proclaiming himself to be wiser than God and better than Jesus Christ. He was in logic proclaiming himself to be God.

    “[The man of lawlessness or the Antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thes 2:3-4)

  • RepublicanStones

    Seer you talk aboout consent. What about the consent of the vast majority of the irish people before partition? What about the consent of the irish in the north who had no wish to be segregated from their fellow countrymen in a sectarian statelet?

    You say…

    ‘..that the unionist people of Ireland have the same identical rights of self determination that the nationalist people of Ireland have, equivalent and comparable in every way’

    Yet it seems history has shown that unionisms rights matter more than the rights and the democratic will of the vast majority of irish people. I wouldn’t talk about consent if i were you, it leads you into difficult waters.

  • Seer

    Seer you talk aboout consent. What about the consent of the vast majority of the irish people before partition? What about the consent of the irish in the north who had no wish to be segregated from their fellow countrymen in a sectarian statelet?

    Simple. Their rights were equal to the rights of those in the south who supported the union and who had no wish to be segregated from their fellow countrymen in Great Britain, of which there was a roughly equal number. They had neither more rights, nor less rights, than those people.

    The problem is that soverignty is defined within borders, but the view of which nation a man considers himself to belong to who lives within a given border can vary. Therefore in such a situation, if we accord both sides equal rights, then a practical compromise must be reached. The partition of Ireland was such a compromise. Was it perfect? Was it the best that it could have been? No. But a united Ireland would have been a MUCH greater injustice.

    This is of course actually a very topical issue elsewhere in Europe, as we can see around the debates concerning Kosovo, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Sevastopol etc. Those situations are generally complex, and ensuring a compromise that respects the rights of both parties can be a difficult matter. This is the case with Northern Ireland too. Those who maintain “this is our ancient sacred inviable land” are generally not ready for such compromise. That was basically the position of the IRA for most of their campaign. Only by de facto rejecting it could we get to where we are now.

  • percy

    John
    The Other Number of the Beast: 616

    Try Gerry Kelly that might add up to 616.
    Maybe try Jerry Kelly if the numbers don’t fit.
    He was recently in the USA, surely there’s a prophecy you can dig out somewhere to match fit your theory.

    Good luck.. we’re all counting on you!

  • Percy

    Try Gerry Kelly that might add up to 616.
    Maybe try Jerry Kelly if the numbers don’t fit.
    He was recently in the USA, surely there’s a prophecy you can dig out somewhere to match fit your theory.

    Unlike your apes in Sinn Fein, I don’t do tricks for oul Ireland or good old USA.

    My discovery was a sacred moment between God and me which led to Gerry Adams greatest nightmare:-

    Gerry Adams’ secret fear

    I was a student at university in Galway this time twenty years ago when I had the most amazing spiritual experience that any human being could have. While writing an essay as an entry to the UCG Philosophical Society’s competition, I felt the most amazing sense of peace descend on me. I felt an absolute sense of love for all people and an overwhelming sense that I was loved too. I was filled with love.

    My essay concerned two babies, whose nametags were switched at birth, and who grew up in families that opposed each other, one a republican and the other a loyalist. These two children ended up murdering their natural fathers in violent incidents during the Troubles. The moral of the story was straightforward, I felt, and in a philosophical sense it meant that all violence was futile and that sectarian violence was simply patricide – or a desire to simply end the human race.

    But the feeling of love would not go away after I wrote the essay. I felt that I was in the midst of something really profound and my mind began to search for what that overwhelming significant matter could be. Then it struck me.

    It was like lightning struck me. It was to do with the other part of a calculation a friend had shown me in my days at St Columb’s College as a fifteen year old. That calculation worked out the name of Ian Paisley at 666. I had checked the references in the Book of Revelation at that time and I knew that there were to be two beasts.

    “Gerry Adams! It has to be!” I roared to myself in the kitchen of the small flat where I had my experience of great love and peace.

    I set down the same numeric alphabet, and calculated Gerry Adams’ name at 666. It was the icing on the cake. I now had an equation to back my essay up. My thesis, which in large part was the SDLP thesis, was being validated by God.

    I never had any doubt that the SDLP thesis was Christian in orientation, or that the republican campaign of violence was evil in orientation. But now I had the proof. I tried it out on a few people, mainly Sinn Fein members at UCG and they were very interested (and worried). It seemed that I had something on them.

    But it only impacted on them. It never impacted on others because others didn’t consider themselves to be doing anything wrong, as opposed to the Sinn Fein members who were assisting the IRA in their campaign of violence. I was left in no doubt that my discovery had gone straight to Gerry Adams.

    It wasn’t long before I heard from Sinn Fein. Others may make up excuses but I know that the attack on our home, smashing several windows, in August 1986 was a warning from Sinn Fein. But it was too late. Their war was over. I had taken out their king and all good chess players will know that that is the game over.

    Within months of that time, Gerry Adams was sending signals through Fr Alec Reid that he was prepared to end the IRA campaign. My experience had sown the seeds of doubt in Adams’ mind and unnerved him completely. He didn’t want to the Antichrist. More accurately, he didn’t want to go down in history as the man who was regarded as the Antichrist.

    In Spring 1987, a year after my experience, the peace process began in earnest with talks between John Hume and Gerry Adams arranged through Fr Alec Reid, and so the history books record a rational explanation of the ending of the IRA campaign.

    No-one – especially not republicans – really wants to contemplate the possibility that something got to Gerry Adams to make him decide finally, after months of dithering, to give up the violence.

    That something was God. Gerry Adams was confronted with what he had become by God – through me, his instrument – in 1986 and he very quickly developed a yellow streak. They say that Gerry Adams was never all that hot about the war and that has led to all kinds of speculation that he was a top level agent of the British and so on.

    But I can end that speculation. Gerry Adams finally came to the conclusion that the war had to end when he realised that history will record him alongside Ian Paisley as the one of the two beasts of Revelation.

    God had hit the Republican Movement at its weak point. It was thought that Sinn Fein was impenetrable because of its egalitarian structure which meant that Adams could have been replaced if got to. But the republicans had made a big mistake. They had relied heavily on Adams to fight their case in the public domain so he came to matter more than all the others. God got to Adams and it was checkmate.

  • Dewi

    I’m the deluded one – obviously.

  • I think that regretfully we have to accept that the idea of a truth commission is a non-starter. Whatever about the impact it would have on the body politic (and a hint of that can be seen in the reaction of Donaldson to Kelly’s appearance on the Maze breakout documentary), many of the most controversial killings were carried out by people opposed to the whole peace process. I want the grieving relatives to get a sense of closure where possible, but a truth commission does not seem to me to be a sensible suggestion, or one likely to succeed.

  • ggn

    John,

    Places like slugger.com are not healthy for any of us in my view.

    But, having gone to your website I think it really is the wrong place for you to be hanging out.

    In fact I think that if Mick goes to your website he could well do something to help you.

    I know a number of people like yourself and I do respect them as people but I think you need you need to get out and breath some air.

    Dewi,

    Go to his website mate, and ease off.

  • Dewi

    Yeah ggn – I should not have replied – ignoring my own advice.

  • iluvni

    When he kicks the bucket, should be expect to see a beret and gloves upon Gerry Adams’ coffin?

  • Ann

    My discovery was a sacred moment between God and me

    I’ve had those moments, did the ground move for you too John?

  • runciter

    The partition of Ireland was such a compromise.

    Funny how this moral, rights-based compromise only happened after the British were forced out of the rest of the country at gunpoint.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Ann

    “My discovery was a sacred moment between God and me”

    I thought God, according to Christian/Catholic folklore, only did that sort of stuff immaculately?

  • USA

    The introduction by Turgeon is just one sided garbage that occasionally rises to heights of mediocraty. I’m not suprised that SF bashers who recount at Unionist victim story keep company with men like John O’Connell – raving loonies.
    SF bashing is obviously valid when there is some lucid and balanced arguement to be made. The above rants do not achieve this. There is no discussion of Adams’ willingness to engage in dialogue, what form it could take, who would participate, the consequences, the benefits etc. Just a rant about Gerry, SF etc.
    Childish garbage. Some unionists have a long way to come yet.

  • the future’s bright the future’s orange

    how dare unionists suggest they were ever victims eh USA. Post 9/11 I thought you’d have some compassion for victims of terrorism. Obviously not…

  • dewi

    Btw Sammy – what on earth has happened to Ulster Rugby? they used to be good. Does losing Bowe make all that difference?
    Codeword- British – this is now getting scary!

  • Ggn

    Thanks for the advice. You might be thankful one day for “people like us”. People who are manic depressive like Winston Churchill and just about every second significant figure in history.

    You just don’t want to believe because the Good Friday Agreement has programmed you to think that politics is about being either green or orange, not about good and evil as my tracts tend to be.

    How come nobody comments like you when I make my usual posts? There is nothing deluded about me – I just know something that God has ensured is not transferable to the shallow and the cynical.

    Dewi

    Ditto.

    Such a smart ass too. In years gone by you would have been one of the first over the top of the trenches defending your country, I’m sure. As I say, such a smart ass.

    Ann

    Ditto.

    In years gone by you would have been the first to lift your skirt, I’m sure, for the boys. So smart.

    Sammy

    Ditto. It’s seems so smart to bring sex into the equation, displaying your lack of wisdom and the reason why you would defend the prince of this world, Satan’s son, Gerry Adams.

    USA

    Ditto. You have a long history for right-wing comments. I’m not siding with the unionists if you read my books, etc., but I could never side with middle class trailer park trash like you who teach Sinn Fein about patriotism and waving the flag while half the world is starving.

  • USA

    The future’s Orange,
    Firstly you should not be so modest as to leave out the last to words of your nom de plume, namely white and green.
    Secondly, I feel I owe you an apology as my previous post may not read as I intended. Of course Unionists were victims, I am not taking issue with that fact. I am merely mentioning that unionists were not the only victims, something Turgon overlooked in his nine paragraph rant.
    Adams said that “Republicans have clearly acknowledged many times the hurt they inflicted during the conflict….That is the right and proper thing to do.” I feel there is sincerity in Adams’ words but accept that to many in the unionist community these may appear as crocodile tears. Turgon however did not once speak of the hurt inflicted upon the Irish Catholic community. In fact in paragraph five begining “In contrast of course” he dismisses some of that hurt as a “lie” and a “vast conspiracy”.
    Its just a one sided pathetic rant and he should be called up on it.

  • USA

    Typo “the last to words” should obviously read “the last two words”.
    Sorry.

  • USA

    John O’Connell,
    You must get a great laugh out of all this. I think its a spoof on your part and all this rubbish about Satan and Pailsey is just a big wind up for you and your student buddies.
    Contrary to your nut job comments I most certainly do not have “a long history of right wing comments”. I would be quite liberal by American standards.
    You then go on to say “I could never side with middle class trailer park trash like you who teach Sinn Fein about patriotism and waving the flag while half the world is starving.”
    Well, thats just retarded, did you wear a helmet when you were a kid?

  • USA

    Read my words. You’re shallow and cynical and you simply as a consequence just don’t get this at all.

    Of course, if you believe in white American values you will find it nearly impossible to support the non-violent response of the SDLP and you will find yourself siding with Sinn Fein violence. That’s inevitable because the approach appeals to your shallowness and Satanic hollowness.

    But Americans, with some exceptions, tend not to get God. They think the New Testament can be forgotten about when anybody treads on their toes. An eye for an eye then becomes operative. But God is found in the New Testament, not the Old, and therefore you will have to judge Adams by New Testament standards.

    Gerry Adams is antichristian in that NT context, opposing oppression with violence, and advocating the tactical use of human suffering (Armed Struggle). Armed Struggle is logically evil as it is about using evil to progress.

    But Gerry Adams is doing what others have done. That means he is being selected as an example in order that peace is restored to the world and mindless violence, which achieves nothing, is rendered redundant.

    Thus he is the Antichrist who’s name comes out at 666, and who fulfils all the prophecies written about him on Patmos.

    But you won’t be able to see that without reconfiguring your thinking to Christian mode.

  • Turgon

    USA,
    You are by no means an infrequent commentor on this web site: as such you know full well my views on loyalist paramilitaries and my opposition to all their works.

    You are of course correct that I (along I suspect with most unionists) regard Gerry Adams as a man whom one cannot trust or engage in a truth process with. His refusal to say he was in the IRA to the extent in the past of even threatening legal action illustrates that he has no interest in truth other than to support his narrative.

    In terms of nationalists being victims: of course they were and very frequently victims. However, what I do not accept is the republican narrative that the vast majority of nationalists murdered by loyalists were murdered as part of collusion. That is the narrative SF is trying to perpetuate. In contrast most of the security forces spent a lot of time apprehending loyalist terrorists. The large number locked up for a long time illustrates this.

    If the British government detailed all the collusion I suspect there would be some: any was far too much but republicans would merely say that there was more and as such proclaim that the government was still hiding stuff.

    SF of course do not want the real truth to come out about the reasons for most of the sectarian murders their military wing carried out. They have no interest in explaining Teebane, Kingsmills, Enniskillen, La Mon, Blood Friday, Douglas Deering etc. The would rather have a quick statement of Bad things happened and it was unfortunate that the IRA had to kill people: blame the bad Brits and Prods. They seem to feel that saying that they regret the deaths is some sort of excuse and negates their guilt.

    On the other hand of course SF do not want the truth to come out on how penetrated the IRA were and how many of the heroic volunteers were actually killed having been set up by their own comrades and indeed leaders. Worst of all they do not want any suggestion that any current republican leaders were informers.

    As I suggested at the start I regard this latest nonsense from Adams as a tactic to garner support especially outwith Northern Ireland and to deflect criticism of republicanism’s failure to engage with Eames Bradley.

    This strategy will, I am sure, work well with the gullible and with SF sympathisers. I suspect you are in the former but might be in the latter camp.

  • no way

    No way unionists are victims they started all this shit.If they

  • Mike

    ———————-
    “Republicans have clearly acknowledged many times the hurt they inflicted during the conflict.
    “I have expressed my personal and sincere regret and apologised for that hurt.
    “The IRA has also acknowledged what it has done. That is the right and proper thing to do.”
    ———————

    If this were indeed the case, Mr Adams, why do you and so many other Provisional republicans continue to claim that the IRA didn’t target civilians as part of its murder campaign?

    Why haven’t you acknowledged that civilians were murderd in their hundreds because of their religion, their nationality, their job, their political belief?

    And come to think of it, why have you continued to deny your own “personal” role in causing the “hurt”?

  • pasty

    I have heard from a truely reliable source that IRA Units across Belfast met today to discuss their next move on the back of Gerry’s request for the truth commission.

    It was also said that discussion took place on the next move should it be necessary to colapse the Assembly next month.

    Seems things are not going to go the way the DUP thinks if these boys are talking about the Assembly ending.

    So it looks like they are preparing for their bluff to be called, and they are willing to act – can the DUP afford the end of the Assembly?

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    John O’Connell,

    Some straightforward questions…..

    Do you believe that there may be a link between your manic-depressive illness and your religious experiences, opinions and beliefs?

    Do you make much money selling your books?

    What will be the outcome of Northern Ireland, the Peace Process, Gerry Adams etc…?

    Has Jesus revealed anyting else to you, of which we all must heed?

  • Greagoir

    In relation to any link between my illness and my religious experiences, I think that disinhibition is a factor in that I would not be prepared to admit to such unpalatable beliefs for others only the illness has worn me down. But deep down I held these beliefs before I started to experience my symptoms. Indeed the illness started with supernatural influences that led me to conclude in 1990, as a young accountant working for Coopers & Lybrand in Belfast, that I was the Christ.

    But God is present in all illness as suffering increases our wisdom. Gerry Adams was increasing suffering and therefore claiming to be God.

    I never talk about money.

    The outcome of the Troubles will be “peace, peace, and peace everywhere”, a reference to the comments of Our Lady of Medjugorje in Bosnia.

    Revelation suggests that Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley will be destroyed in political downfalls that involve great disgrace.

    In relation to Jesus revealing anything new, the whole of the salient parts of the Book of Revelation are revealed in my book – The Book of Revelaton Revealed. But Jesus has nothing new to say. The outcome of Revelation is judgement, my judgement and the judgement of God.

  • Richard James

    Then Dewi, you shouldn’t be glad Adams was in a position to have those atrocities committed.

  • ciaran

    There is some amount of shite here today and not just from o’connel.Adams claiming to be god but in actual fact satans child. I am afraid to say that the mental illness is still with you john.
    Please, please, please could someone finally prove to me that gerry A. was in the ira and was on the army council. I have tried to find some proof but it is thin on the ground.. Why should he admit his role in violence if he had no role? Just because you don’t like the man does not mean you have the right to accuse him of something like that. I do not care if he was involved are not, I would just like some proof.
    By the way John I believe the bible is a load of tripe and there is no God. Can you please convince me otherwise.With physical proof of course.If the doubting Thomas in the bible can have some then why not me?

  • USA

    Ciaran,
    Not that its proof but I would be of the opinion that Adams was in the IRA and indeed did serve on the Army Council (no big suprises there). I am not sure of his present status within that organization as it is secretive by its very nature.

    Turgon,
    I believed Adams’ consistant denials of IRA membership were solely directed at the USA, where he would be refused entry on the basis of IRA membership alone, regardless of any influence the Irish or British governments could bring to bear on his behalf.
    However, I believe McGuinness has admitted membership and still gains entry (entry forms ask if you have ever been a member of a terrorist organization, amongst other groupings such as the Communist party, Nazi party etc), and I know Seamus Twomey was here many years ago as was Joe Cahill in more recent years. So now i’m not so sure that the US entry visa is actuallly the issue as others with known IRA backgrounds can seemingly gain access.
    You do however, offer his denials as an example of why he cannot be trusted. But it is equally true that the British are not forthcoming with the truth on matters concerning many state murders, death squads, informers, and murder gangs. So should the nationalists trust them?
    If you want the truth then challange Adams and engage in the discussion with him as they engaged the British government- if he is as willing to participate as he says he is (and I believe he is), then get the admission out of him. But know that he will want something in return, such as progress on the unanswered questions that his community have, that’s the way the game is played. SF have been playing it since the early 1990’s as have the British, Irish and American governments.
    Your opposition to loyalist terrorisism is to be recognized but they were only one arm of oppression used against the nationalist community over the years. Others included the sectarian state law makers, the gerrymandered electoral system, the B specials, the RUC, the UDR, the British Amry, SAS, Paras, the pro British media outlets etc. Not all members of the aforementioned organizations were bad guys by any means but their organizational culture and personel profile meant that they were easily used as a means to suppress an Irish identity and political activism in the North. Some of it was overt and violent while some was covert and some more subtle, but it was all very similar to racist states elsewhere such as aparthied South Africa.
    That is my view, I know things are improving and I think engagement with men like Adams can only help. After all there are many within his own community who believe he has gone too far and continues to sell the republican position short. I feel he is genuinely trying to move his people to compromise and dialogue as Davy Irvine tried to do for elements within the Loyalist community. Generally speaking, I also feel the nationalist community are more ready for this step in the process than unionists. I believe this is in part due to the unionist belief that they were merely good citizens unfairly and targeted by insane terrorists(a view the British govt and media did nothing to dispell). Many have not yet come to terms with the role the unionist community played in the conflict, a role that is now clearly recognized by every observer in the RoI, UK, USA, Australia, Europe, Canada, South American etc.
    I hope this viewpoint is not too offensive as no offense is intended. Its just the way I see it.
    Have a nice day.

  • Comrade Stalin

    USA:

    I believed Adams’ consistant denials of IRA membership were solely directed at the USA, where he would be refused entry on the basis of IRA membership alone, regardless of any influence the Irish or British governments could bring to bear on his behalf.

    Nah. It all started when Gerry Adams was prosecuted for membership, I think in the late 1970s. IIRC, the case collapsed. Some republicans have attempted to spin this as an “acquittal”.

    That is my view, I know things are improving and I think engagement with men like Adams can only help.

    This is a point of view that wouldn’t be tolerated in mainstream politics in the USA. Do Americans support the idea of engagement with those who blow up abortion clinics ? Same thing.

    If you want to support radical quasi-Marxist parties with a history of bloody murder that’s your prerogative. But are you are prepared to use the same approach when it comes to politics in your own country ?

  • Rory

    The denial by certain leaders of Sinn Féin that they were ever volunteers in the IRA is not something of their own choosing. It was a necessary fiction insisted upon by the Englezes (thank you Sammy etc.) as a pre-condition to engaging openly in talks. The British government had said again and again that it “would never talk to terrorists” and it was for their hypocritical reasons that the fiction was established and for which it must be maintained. That Republican leaders were prepared to deny their military service in the search for peace in order to accomodate the British and spare thir blushes should be seen as laudable. It is the British, as usual, who have something to hide.

    Which also means of course that a truth and justice commission would be unfulfilling – the British will never admit to the truth of what they got up to. Not in a hundred years anyway, which I would bet is the period of seal on any papers relating to the period.

  • Democratic

    Love it – apparently Adams and McGuinness et al were never in the Provos (until recently anyway) for the benefit of British blushes – LOL!!

  • Nurse Ratchett

    John O’Connell,

    Are you wearing Tin Foil Pants?

    Textbook mental illness rants there.

    Get yerself up to Purdysburn.

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    John O’Connell,

    That’s great news then John that Peace will be the outcome as people come to their senses and see reason.

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    Maybe it is time too that Gerry & Co left the stage as leadership of Sinn Féin and handed over the reigns to members who do not have such a chequered past. The sight of their mugs in government are understandbly driving Unionist to despair. Maybe the likes of Mary Lou McDonald etc…would be more acceptable!

  • Cairin

    The proof that God exists: My last book is entitled – The Book of Revelation Revealed: The proof that God exists. I can say no more but the outworking of the Book of Revelation is a monumental discovery on a par with the Human Genome Project in science but without the cost and the purposelessness.

    Nurse

    No, cotton.

    Greagoir

    Great news only my comment was intended as Jesuitical and rendered so by mentioning Bosnia. As the Provos used to say (to Britain): Peace or War, the choice is yours. But there will never again be a terrorist campaign. It is Bosnia/Rwanda or Peace. that’s my thinking anyway, and who am I, only God’s only begotten.

  • USA

    Comrade Stalin,
    I don’t think the analagy with blowing up abortion clinics is a strong one. For example the US (for all its flaws) is a democracy, the northern Statlet was not. Additionally, the North quickly came under military occupation with emergency powers available to the civil administration (which they abused), the US did not and does not labour under either of these undemocratic conditions (despite Bushs’ best efforts). We also have a judicial system which ensures a trial by jury to deal with crime, you guys did not (and I believe you may still use Diplock courts). These undemocratic “special circumstances” and the resulting violence cannot seriously be compared to someone who wants to blow up an abortion clinic.
    The IRA did have left wing ideologies in the 70’s but this was common in other groupings at that time such as the ANC. I feel in this age most (but not all) of that ideological baggage has been set aside, just the same way the British Labour party of today have little resemblance to the Labour party of the early 70’s.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I don’t think the analagy with blowing up abortion clinics is a strong one.

    A large number of people oppose abortion. A small number of those oppose it to the extent that they believe it is appropriate to kill and murder those who carry it out. The majority of people completely oppose that minority, even though some of them may be sympathetic with their thinking rather than their means.

    A large number of people in NI oppose the union. A small number of those oppose it to the extent that they believe it is appropriate to kill and murder those who enable it to exist. The majority of people completely oppose that minority, even though some of them may be sympathetic with their thinking rather than their means.

    Point out where I’m going wrong here.

    For example the US (for all its flaws) is a democracy, the northern Statlet was not.

    Let’s explore this one. Stop me if I’m wrong here. Wasn’t the the US civil war was fought when a subsection of the states attempted to break off and go their own way ? Rather than recognizing the right of those states to independence/national self determination (the same self-determination sought by Ireland from the British empire), the northern states invaded and subjugated those states back into the union.

    And is it really a democracy when a president can be declared elected after a kind of gerrymandering process where people likely to oppose the President’s party are removed from the electoral role, and then the Supreme Court (dominated by appointees of the President’s party) vote to stop a recount taking place of a disputed election ? Is it a democracy where people have to queue for well in excess of half an hour to cast their vote, and where neither candidates nor citizens can observe the vote counting process to ensure that it is being conducted properly and fairly ?

    If Gerry Adams and his contemporaries had attempted to stick their heads above water in the USA, they’d have been penetrated by the FBI, gunned down, dismissed in public as un-American, and given the death penalty. They’d have been banned from voting or standing in elections.

    Additionally, the North quickly came under military occupation with emergency powers available to the civil administration (which they abused)

    If that is “military occupation”, then I can remember many situations where the National Guard in various different states have “occupied” regions, eg the LA riots. Wouldn’t you say ?

    , the US did not and does not labour under either of these undemocratic conditions (despite Bushs’ best efforts).

    Do you think most black people would agree with you ? How about American Indians ?

    We also have a judicial system which ensures a trial by jury to deal with crime, you guys did not (and I believe you may still use Diplock courts).

    What’s wrong with diplock courts ? Several European democracies, eg Sweden, do not use jury trials AFAIK. And to be honest, if I was an IRA bomber in the dock, I’d take a diplock court over a jury trial any day – a jury comprised of ordinary NI citizens would never give a paramilitary member an unbiased trial, whereas a panel of judges would at least be legally bound to try. Think about it.

    The IRA did have left wing ideologies in the 70’s but this was common in other groupings at that time such as the ANC. I feel in this age most (but not all) of that ideological baggage has been set aside, just the same way the British Labour party of today have little resemblance to the Labour party of the early 70’s.

    Yup, so why do you think a bunch of them went over to see the FARC then ? Why do you think SF MLAs are pro-Venezuela ?

  • ciaran

    sorry john i probably didn’t make myself clear. I would like real proof.The demented ramblings of a man who believes god communicates only with him really will not cut the mustard. As I said before, if thomas the doubting apostle can have physical proof then why not me?

  • ciaran

    comrade stalin, If I remember correctly, around the time the colombia 3 were visiting farc so was the head of the new york stock exchange.Was he a left wing activist, maybe plotting the downfall of the western economy?

  • Cairan

    Thomas didn’t prove that God exists by touching Jesus. He simply proved that Jesus was still alive after being crucified.

    Have a look at my website and you might find it interesting, but God only proves herself to the humble and the meek, and they usually don’t get evidence to prove it to others. Try Medjugorje where you’ll get a presence of God.

  • Comrade Stalin

    comrade stalin, If I remember correctly, around the time the colombia 3 were visiting farc so was the head of the new york stock exchange.Was he a left wing activist, maybe plotting the downfall of the western economy?

    An excellent question, which I didn’t have a clue about, so I googled it. And apparently he was there to talk about “a message of cooperation from U.S. financial services.”

    The republican types haven’t gone to the trouble of explaining what they were there to talk to FARC about, but I suspect it won’t have been the advancement of US capitalism in Colombia.

  • ciaran

    Actually comrade they did explain,The reason for visiting the FARC zone was given as an interest in the Colombian peace process and an exchange of political strategies, an intercambio if you will, regarding the differing experiences of the Irish and Colombian efforts. Plus an abiding interest in Colombian nature and wildlife.
    Now while that may sound a bit contrived I think it is worth noting that,Following the press coverage of the case the House International Relations Committee in DC decided to look into the alleged FARC/IRA contacts. Initially the committee staff prepared a report titled “International Global Terrorism: Its Links With Illicit Drugs as Illustrated by the IRA and Other Groups in Colombia.” The staff report was led by John P. Mackey, committee investigative counsel, and an important bureaucratic promoter of Plan Colombia. Mackey insisted that the US government was convinced of IRA involvement in Colombia and collaboration with the FARC. He furthermore claimed that various ordinance techniques used by the FARC had their roots in the IRA’s playbook. Neither the DEAs administrator Asa Hutchinson nor the deputy director of the State Department’s counter terrorism office supported Mackey’s conclusions, despite the title of his report. Pressed by Rep. Peter T. King (R-N.Y.) another witness, Colombian Joint Chiefs of Staff Head Gen. Fernando Tapias, said he had no information about any organizational links between the IRA and the FARC. Nor had the Colombian government detected any terrorist assistance or training in his country by Iran or Cuba, another fantasy suggested by Mackey.

    Rep. Christopher H. Smith (R-N.J.) said he had asked Colombia, Britain and the U.S. intelligence community “if there is even one scintilla of evidence of connection between the IRA or Sinn Fein,” the IRA’s political arm, with the FARC, “and the answer is no
    The article this was lifted from can be seen here

    http://www.counterpunch.org/davis04272004.html

  • USA

    Comrade Stalin,
    An excellent and challanging response. I will see if I can find some time tomorrow to formulate a considered reply.
    In the meantime let me deal with the easy stuff first.
    You wrote: “If Gerry Adams and his contemporaries had attempted to stick their heads above water in the USA, they’d have been penetrated by the FBI, gunned down, dismissed in public as un-American , and given the death penalty. They’d have been banned from voting or standing in elections.
    Check the hyperlinks.

    You also write “What’s wrong with Diplock courts…think about it”. Well I have thought about it and I totally disagree with you. A trial by your peers is a non negotiable building block of a democratic society. You see the government can never be both judge and jury – that is called tyranny. You do actually understand the meaning of FREEDOM don’t you? It’s not just a word.

    You ask how the African-American population feels here in the United States. In my discussions and observations feel they have much in common with the northern nationalist community, except of course that we will have a black president within the next 2 months. How far along are you guys with your reconcilliation project? Any chance of an Irish Catholic leader of the Assembly?
    Glass houses, stones Comrade?

    You also criticise the vote counting in Florida, and I won’t disagree with that other than to say I would not overestimate the level of mismanagement. All democracies are flawed, I happen to feel this one is just less flawed than most. Personally I would borrow your Proportional Representation (STV) system to replace our First Past the Post voting system. But the established party assholes in congress would oppose that tooth and nail. You are lucky to have it, hold on to it.