After the ‘kerfuffle’..

After the “kerfuffle” – the threats, the clarification, and the rebuttal – apparently the DUP and Sinn Féin are to hold talks next week. As the Belfast Telegraph report tells us

The DUP today said it was waiting confirmation of talks with Sinn Fein for next week to tackle the impasse threatening the future of devolution. Sinn Fein has also organised a series of internal consultations, including a meeting of its 27 Assembly members also next week.

Well we’re certainly not in May now.. But will they take the advice offered in the NewsLetter editorial? Probably not..

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  • Would it ever occur to the whole job lot of them to get on with running the goverment of the six counties

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Pete,
    What a damp squib of an Editorial – presumably under request from Robbo to say bugger all.

    OK, to be fair, they did ask for SF to give clarity to their position. But, how simple and clear a message do they want from SF – either Robbo jumps or he will be First Minister of Jack Shit?

    Having jibber jabbered about not being threatened into movement on the issue, now the DUP suddenly jumps to, as required by SF for some talks. Could this be another, absolutely shocking case of a Party lying to their memebers.

    ps I presume any similarity between your threads and the Newsletter editorials is purely coincidental?

  • Pete Baker

    Sammy Mc

    “purely coincidental?”

    No. But not in the way you mean.

    It’s because whoever wrote that editorial is paying attention to the detail.

    Unlike your good self, still.

  • fair_deal

    Sam

    “now the DUP suddenly jumps to, as required by SF for some talks. Could this be another, absolutely shocking case of a Party lying to their memebers.”

    As PR said he’d hold talks back in June No.
    http://www.peterrobinson.org/PressArticles.asp?Article_ID=370
    Do try and keep up.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Pete,

    “It’s because whoever wrote that editorial is paying attention to the detail” – as fed to them by the DUP.

    I take it you are aware the Newsletter generally follow the DUP line?

    Fair_Deal,

    the reminders to Robbo, as delivered to him by SF, about what he’s supposed to be doing (as per his speeech) obviously has had the desired effect – he’s seems to be getting up off his arse and getting ready to do some serious talking.

  • interested

    Hmmmmm I think I sniff the first signs of another SF climbdown.

    The “reminders to Robbo” as you put them Sammy are about trying to make it look to the republican base as if they are actually getting something – yes they get some talks, as they got the last time (at Downing St) but they don’t actually get any outcome from those talks.

    They lied to their voters when they told them there would be devolution of P&J;and the ILA etc etc – this is simply a glorified version of waving shiny objects at the natives in an attempt to distract them from the utter impotence of SF to deliver any of the core issues which they assured their voters they would.

    What exactly are Sinn Fein going to be “consulting” their members about?

  • fair_deal

    “obviously has had the desired effect ”

    Err most of the alleged “reminders” occured after June

  • Norton

    Pete Baker,

    I am surprised you get so hung up on Sinn Fein continually and categorically maintaining something in public which they know not to be true. They maintained for years that their links with the IRA were not as close as most people knew them to be. But they said it and kept saying it because it happened to be politically expedient at the time. A politician saying something that isn’t true – fancy that Pete. Perhaps it’s you that needs to start paying attention.

  • dewi

    I still suspect that SF believe that they had a timetabled deal – evidence in favour is President Bush’s statement at Stormont and Brown’s six million quid for Irish medium TV. It’s a strange world when the issue that caused Faulkner’s resignation is now portrayed as a Republican nightmare.

  • Comrade Stalin

    fair_deal: don’t waste your time with this intellectual black hole. Sammy sees the world his own way, and careful explanation of the facts make no difference.

  • E eye E eye yo

    Once again the Dup’s jump to the SF/IRA tune by agreeing to a meeting. Watch P.R and the dups roll over as they have done on the Gay rights issue by giving them funding. Well done “Peter the Punt” standing firm again. Ulster is safe in your hands.

  • frustrated democrat

    It is time the DUP and SF tried to extracate themselves from the midden of sectarian excrement from whence they emanated.

    Maybe just maybe they can get away from their narrow sectarian arguments ILA, Maze, P&J;etc etc and start to deal effectively with the issues that most people want dealt with, things like the economy, health, education etc.

    To serve the people is what they should be trying to do; not themselves and their little cliques.

    I once thought I might stop being frustrated as local government started to work better than direct rule, how wrong I was!

  • observer

    Watch P.R and the dups roll over as they have done on the Gay rights issue by giving them funding.

    ………………………….

    The gay community pay taxes and rates like everyone else, why shouldnt they benefit from them?

  • New Yorker

    frustrated democrat

    The main parties in government are hick parties, your government is a yokelocracy. One party is composed of ‘reformed’ bigots and the other of ‘reformed’ terrorists and neither party has anyone with the level of intelligence or experience to deliver good government. That’s what happens when the hicks take over. They cadge as much cash for themselves as they can before people realize they are not and never will be up to the job. I’m afraid you will remain frustrated as long as you continue to have a yokelocracy in government.

  • observer

    I’m afraid you will remain frustrated as long as you continue to have a yokelocracy in government.
    Posted by New Yorker on Aug 28, 2008 @ 09:28 PM

    coming from a nation that elected a yokel as their president…….

  • Pancho’s Horse

    observer, good point about GW but people who download pervy pictures and copulate with animals also pay taxes and rates. Where’s their funding?

  • ??

    homosexuality isnt illegal, are you suggesting it should be?

  • Pete Baker

    And back to the actual topic..

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Pete, you have no sense of humour.

  • Pete Baker

    Pancho’s Horse

    We have enough problems on Slugger with the psychotics – as several comments on this post evidence.

    And there’s no font for ‘humour’. ;op

  • Pancho’s Horse

    As one Newsletter reader to another – lighten up.

  • Pete Baker

    Dewi

    “I still suspect that SF believe that they had a timetabled deal”

    Beyond their declarations of commitments to May this year, you can suspect all you like. You have no evidence to support that suspicion. And, tellingly, Sinn Féin haven’t provided any for you.

    You might want to ask, as ‘interested’ does

    What exactly are Sinn Fein going to be “consulting” their members about?

    Norton

    “A politician saying something that isn’t true – fancy that Pete.”

    Well, at least you don’t dispute that factual point on the Sinn Fein leadership’s lying to their own party delegates/membership/public.

    Although you appear to miss the significance of that point.

    Sammy Mc doesn’t.

    Do you Sammy?

  • USA

    The republican leadership has moved its base a very long way on a range of issues. They expect a reciprocal arrangement from the leaders of unionism.
    But the unionist leadership has not delivered loyalist weapons, they continue to block P+J, ILA etc. They seem to be still playing the old game, that is not what is needed to move the society forward and I don’t think Sinn Fein are interested in playing by the old rules. Even at the Ard Feis Sinn Fein got their membership to sign up to policing etc, but nothing solid has been delivered in this area. Everyone knows it was in this context that Adams etc were able to move their people.
    I feel this might give Sinn Fein a short term problem but hands the unionists a long term one. Ironically for unionists, some accomodations to nationalists in certain policy areas would dilute Sinn Fein’s appeal and Catholics may feel more comfortable and welcome under the current constitutional arrangements. It is this group of nationalists (who will vote for maintenance of the Union in a border poll) that can solidify the Union for decades to come. But unionism does not have the vision or desire to win them over. Hence their long term problem.
    Its a shame really that the equality agenda is not being seen in a positive light by unionism as it is a well established part of Britains pluralist society. It is going to be very hard if not impossible for Unionists to maintain their position in the longer term.

  • USA

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that I think an issue such as P+J is so fundamental to SF that it could be a deal breaker for them. Although, as I mentioned before their options in the short term remain cloudy to me. I was recently of the opinion that SF were interested to see how the TUV would perform against the DUP but currently I think the DUP would have a strong “were putting it to SF” platform to win the unionist vote.
    That would leave SF no better off within the assembly, but they may be calculating that the unionists are not real partners and their agenda is better persued elsewhere such as Dublin, London, Washington DC etc.
    I don’t see any good options for SF in the short term but this issue is a huge one for them and if they feel they cannot make progress with unionism through the assembly then the assembly may yet dissolve.
    And that would be a great shame as you all would have missed a great opportunity to show the world leadership in areas such as conflict resolution, equality, diversity, pluralism, democracy etc.

  • USA

    Okay, now i’m just having a conversation with myself.
    “Putting it to SF” may work well within Unionism but it does nothing to cure the ills of your society. Such petty sectarian point scoring by getting on over on “themuns” misses the point of bringing people together through co-operation and proper leadership. Robinson may see this wider vision yet and a deal could be struck, I certainly hope so.

    It’s really late here.
    Is there anybody there?

  • Non-aligned and ex-SF

    “What exactly are Sinn Fein going to be “consulting” their members about?”

    Will there be ‘townhall’ meetings within each of their constituencies? To explain what exactly? Will another step backwards from both previously-held public and policy positions be presented as a step forward? Are there more resignations in the pipeline? Have more resignations from the party occurred than have been made public? Is SF turning into a more ‘greener’ version of the SDLP or the old Republican Clubs? Where has all the radicalism gone?

    If all those SF party activists were to be informed tomorrow that there was no more money to pay wages or so-called subsistence allowances (paid to many non-elected activists),or that paid community posts would in future be assigned to applicants on the basis of merit and not on one’s connections to the party -would all those people still remain? Would they stay with the party and be prepared to make the same type of personal financial sacrifices that so many made in the 70’s and 80’s?

    Don’t get me wrong. I fully support a totally political option, but I think Sinn Fein have lost their way. Various negotiations have shown that they have always came away from such processes having to accept less than their ‘bottom line’ which makes one ask if this leadership ever had a bottom-line.

    I also fully understand the difference between principles and tactics. Unfortunately, while espousing and seeking to demonstrate the value and benefits of employing tactics over principles, Sinn Féin have been shown to be poor tacticians.

    Indeed, as I read, listen to, or watch the regular media utterances by O’Dowd, Maskey, Adams, et al, I think of the utterances from the likes of earlier public figures like the SDLP’s Paddy Devlin (green wing),Paddy O’Hanlon and even Seamus Mallon in his early days or Malachy McGurran and Seamus Lynch of the Rep Clubs and later the Workers Party, etc. (yes,this does tend to give my age away – sad, really) Its a pity that various old press, radio and TV interviews from the 70’s and 80’s by the latter and their colleagues aren’t freely accessible through the internet today.

    If they were, I believe there could be a very good competition held – which political figure, past or present, from which party said which quote. It might raise a few eyebrows.

    And I ask myself what separates them all – except a couple of decades, thousands of men in gaol, and too many people dead.

    And Connolly’s vision still remains without a party to progress it or to get into the real politics which means bringing about economic change – something SF, SDLP and others pay lip service to but will not lay before us a fully costed and viable alternative economic and social programme.

    Talk is cheap – but the rest of us will always have to pay.

  • Comrade Stalin

    And Connolly’s vision still remains without a party to progress it or to get into the real politics which means bringing about economic change – something SF, SDLP and others pay lip service to but will not lay before us a fully costed and viable alternative economic and social programme.

    Perhaps that’s because Connolly’s vision cannot be costed and viable. Perhaps the reason why there are no parties to progress it is something to do with the fact that nobody in Ireland identifies with it.

  • Non-aligned and ex-SF

    Nobody in Ireland identifies with Connolly’s vision?

    The Labour Party commemorates his legacy at Arbour Hill cemetery each May, and this year saw an oration from both Labour Party Leader Eamon Gilmore and SIPTU President Jack O’Connor at the graveside. Gilmore said, “Over the years since his death, Labour, the party of Connolly, has achieved much. We have left an indelible stamp on modern Ireland. We have led the way in changing Ireland from an in-ward looking conservative country, to a modern liberal European society.”

    Sinn Féin is another party which claims his mantle with Gerry Adams stating last year – “Connolly’s core values and principles are what guides Sinn Féin today.”

    The Workers Party would also claim to his inheritors as do others.

    If I recall correctly, away back even the SDLP at one time claimed inheritance from Connolly.

  • ggn

    A Ghearóid, a chara,

    Tá sé thart. Ní féidir le Tuaisceart Éireann ‘oibriú’ in am ar bith dar liomsa.

    Tá an votóir seo ar son plean B anois. Caithfear dul chun cinn a dhéanamh.

  • It was Sammy McNally what done it

    Non-aligned and ex-SF

    your best bet for a return of Connollyism is full scale and prolonged world recession with plumetting house prices and rising unemployment – without that, the vast majority of people will shy away from all radical left wingery as it appears to have been comprehensively debunked. However, with the current ‘credit crunch’, and given the fact that economists dont seem to have a clue as to what the feck is going on, Capitalism may yet suffer a crisis in confidence.

  • Traditional_Unionist

    whats the point in posting in Irish when you know the vast majority are not going to understand it. and also when you have already proved you can easily in english as proved in an earlier thread???

  • Rooster Cogburn

    Bad manners is the point. That and, when the poster has a pronounced habit of making Republican points in English, marked sectarian intent. And thus, inevitably, a further contaminating of gaeilge’s ‘brand’ occurs.

  • USA

    TU and Rooster,
    Get over yourselves. If you don’t understand it then just move on.

  • Rooster Cogburn

    Yeah, I’ve feeling you’re fluent. It remains bad manners to interrupt a thread in one language and spout on in a language a large majority of the readers of that thread indisputably don’t speak or read. When those bad manners, in every instance, are allied to Republican prejudices, it becomes a sorry example of a language being tainted by dismal association.

  • USA

    “When those bad manners, in every instance, are allied to Republican prejudices” How do you know that if you don’t read Irish?
    Do you want everything to be an “English only” medium. Perhaps you like the mantra “No Irish Need Apply”. What about cultural diversity, mutual respect, you know those ‘British’ values.
    Perhaps this site should only permit comments by people who think like you, share your values and world view?

    [play the ball – edited moderator]