Shock…Horror….Disbelief…’Anti-British’ Larne Council refuse to erect loyalist bunting!

Orangemen in Larne have staged a protest outside Council buildings after the Council failed to erect (and pay for) red, white and blue bunting in the town. The DUP Mayor, Bobby McKee, cited equality laws as the reason why Larne Council has failed to erect the bunting. A Council spokesperson claimed they had asked the Order to seek funding for “cultural activities” which could have been used to pay for the bunting, which raises the intriguing prospect of Larne Council paying for green, white and orange bunting under cultural activities were it to be sought at some stage.

  • Hogan

    Its called equality legislation, we all have to live with it, even backwoods councillors in Larne. Just takes longer for it to sink in…

  • DC

    Nice pic shows about 0.0001% of the Larne Borough showing up with a particular concern about that bunting.

  • The Devil

    Rather a lame trolling mission Mr. Donelly you wallow in orgasmic glory at the refusal of the Larne council to provide bunting for one section of the community (and quite rightly so larne council)
    Yet you squeal like a stuck pig if Stormont doesn’t provide money for the Irish language (one section of the community again) and in most peoples opinion also quite rightly so.

    DC,
    It might be a nice pic but your maths are shocking your dismissive percentage would estimate the poplation of larne at approximately 350,000 that’s plainly wrong.
    However you should note that it is approximately 35 persons involved in the protest, thats still more than Sinn Fein got at the last Finucane inquiry protest, more than Sinn Fein got at the last Irish language protest, more than Sinn Fein got at the Bush protest.

    PS: at 35 it is still 182,999,965 less than Sinn Fein got for rich lawyers at Bloody Sunday and only half as many as Sinn Fein can squeeze into a toilet cubicle for the visually impaired

  • Ballonist

    Of course they should not put up the French colors how would the Glensmen feel?

  • Ally

    My own lodge pays for our bunting, as do the majority of other lodges across Northern Ireland. While this move by Larne council is disappointing, it is understandable when you take into account the wider context of equality legislation. At the end of the day, the councils have to act within the law.
    The lodges in Larne should work together, pot some money and get bunting up each year to have the town looking well.

  • interested

    It must be my background from the West of the Bann but frankly I’m astonished that there’s Councils who actually supply and put up the Orange bunting.

    Its not the job of the District Council to organise or run the 12th July any more than it is to organise a Feis (if that’s spelt right) and you can be sure that the ‘Orangemen’ who were protesting last night would be out again were that Council or any other to be involved in putting up bunting for that kind of event.

    Unfortunately some Prods seem to be developing a MOPE complex and this is a prime example of it. Clearly the District Lodge organising the 12th in Larne can apply to the Community Festivals fund which could help provide the bunting – no doubt the Council has funding sources they could apply for – tourism etc which would also help. But simply to expect the ratepayer to automatically supply and pay for bunting is a bit outrageous in my opinion.

    A bit of traditional Protestant self-reliance might be required here!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “loyalist bunting!” lol @ Chris Donnelly.

    We are in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N.Ireland, our national colours are red, white and blue. If anyone objects to those colours they can go fling there hook and live somewhere where they feel more at home.

    If you you don’t like it , MOVE HOME

  • My understanding is that if the council opt to put up the red, white and blue bunting and later receive a request for green, white and gold bunting then they will have to oblige. The council has made the right decision. If those protesting wish to have the republican colours flying then they are going the right way about it.

    It seems like a cheap and ill-thought out political gimmic.

    If they are serious, and as Ally says, go and raise the money and erect the bunting yourself like the majority of other Orange lodges have to do.

  • Parson

    We go and collect money from the local community to pay for the flags and bunting where I live; if we approached the local council for a grat, they’d soon tell us where to go, even if it was a Unionist controlled area, which it certainly isn’t!

    How about Larne District pay for their own bunting? They’re a big District, they can surely afford it.

  • interested

    Parson
    “How about Larne District pay for their own bunting? They’re a big District, they can surely afford it.”

    That’s the ultimate irony with all of this. The only areas where Lodges could get the Council to pay for their bunting and put it up for them, are majority unionist areas in which surely you would expect the Orange Institution to be at its strongest and have enough members/supporters to do it themselves.

    Meanwhile those Lodges in the West of the Province do it themselves, with less members and less money and a lot less whinging and expectations that everything should be done for them.

    What really gets on my goat (geddit!) is that this attitude seems to pervade within the Orange Instituion at a senior level presently that one of the roles of the Order is simply to complain about things and pretend that the world used to be wonderful back “when I was a lad”. So much for 21st Century Orangeism.

  • Parson

    Interested,

    Well spoken! Where I live, we just get on and do the job ourselves, and I have to say, the village always looks really well by the time we’re finished. It all comes down a week or so after the 12th as well, apart from a few flags which stay up until the end of August.

    We don’t need a grant from the Council or anyone else.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Yet you squeal like a stuck pig if Stormont doesn’t provide money for the Irish language (one section of the community again) and in most peoples opinion also quite rightly so.”

    ha ha….ludicrous comparison Old Nick. The likes of yourself who continually proclaim that we all live in the ‘British Isles’ yet you will not support funding or even recognise Irish/Gaelic as one of the oldest languages in the ‘British Isles’. You display an ignorance of the culture and history the ‘British Isles’.

    Hey ‘Ulster is my homeland’….another display of ignorance. You and the like continually ignore that rather substantial number of people who live among you too in NI who profess to ‘Irish’ only. Remember the last census figures put the British Unionist community at 800,000 and odd, and the Irish Nationalist community at 700,000. There is not much of a difference for one community to call the shots as they did years ago. Those bad old days are gone.

    BTW, it was right not to display the British bunting for the 12th. If this was the case then the colours and symbols of Irish Nationalism should be displayed on particular dates significant to Irish Nationalists.

    Parity of esteem it’s called, so live with it.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Yet you squeal like a stuck pig if Stormont doesn’t provide money for the Irish language (one section of the community again) and in most peoples opinion also quite rightly so.”

    ha ha….ludicrous comparison Old Nick. The likes of yourself who continually proclaim that we all live in the ‘British Isles’ yet you will not support funding or even recognise Irish/Gaelic as one of the oldest languages in the ‘British Isles’. You display an ignorance of the culture and history the ‘British Isles’.

    Hey ‘Ulster is my homeland’….another display of ignorance. You and the like continually ignore that rather substantial number of people who live among you too in NI who profess to ‘Irish’ only. Remember the last census figures put the British Unionist community at 800,000 and odd, and the Irish Nationalist community at 700,000. There is not much of a difference for one community to call the shots as they did years ago. Those bad old days are gone.

    BTW, it was right not to display the British bunting for the 12th. If this was the case then the colours and symbols of Irish Nationalism should be displayed on particular dates significant to Irish Nationalists.

    Parity of esteem it’s called, so live with it.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Yet you squeal like a stuck pig if Stormont doesn’t provide money for the Irish language (one section of the community again) and in most peoples opinion also quite rightly so.”

    ha ha….ludicrous comparison Old Nick. The likes of yourself who continually proclaim that we all live in the ‘British Isles’ yet you will not support funding or even recognise Irish/Gaelic as one of the oldest languages in the ‘British Isles’. You display an ignorance of the culture and history the ‘British Isles’.

    Hey ‘Ulster is my homeland’….another display of ignorance. You and the like continually ignore that rather substantial number of people who live among you too in NI who profess to ‘Irish’ only. Remember the last census figures put the British Unionist community at 800,000 and odd, and the Irish Nationalist community at 700,000. There is not much of a difference for one community to call the shots as they did years ago. Those bad old days are gone.

    BTW, it was right not to display the British bunting for the 12th. If this was the case then the colours and symbols of Irish Nationalism should be displayed on particular dates significant to Irish Nationalists.

    Parity of esteem it’s called, so live with it.

  • [aside] The Devil, my Larne contacts tell me that a certain North Antrim developer – from that DUP mould – has intentions to build an ‘out-of-town’ shopping centre(?) in Larne borough. Might he be getting any help from the local MP?

  • “Parity of esteem it’s called, so live with it.”

    Did you get that 3-for-1 offer in Larne, Greagoir? 🙂

  • lamh dearg

    But there is still something strangely comforting that despite credit crunches, soaring prices, years of “peace”, our new “government” and so on, nevertheless every morning somewhere in this pathetic excuse for a country/statelet/province (please delete whichever you feel is incorrect) an Orangeman gets up and wonders,

    “what can I do today to make myself and my “culture” look even worse today than it did yesterday?”

    Plus ca change plus c’est la meme chose

  • Casual Observer

    Are the 12th of July Celebrations, etc, considered official State holidays?

  • interested

    Casual Observer
    I believe the 12th is a holiday declared by proclamation by the Secretary of State each year.

  • LURIG

    Most of the Unionist people I know are heading for the sun or Donegal this week. They have had enough and are embarrassed by these knuckledraggers and 17th century fundamentalists. Orangeism/Loyalism is dying the death of a 1000 self imposed cuts.The Orange Order/Loyalist paramiltary violence on the Springfield Road in 2005 was the final straw for many. The spokespersons put up by them to justify the trouble and blame everyone else were monosyllablic gum munchers who couldn’t string two words together. I remember watching them on the TV with a Protestant friend who was absolutely mortified and his father and grandfather were Orangemen. In years gone by the Tour of the North (Belfast) and Drumcree were BIG media spectacles with areas closed down for days and weeks. The Tour of the North slinked through North Belfast in an hour or two while Drumcree is a done deal, another march along the Garvaghy Road will NEVER happen again. The Order has an air of a sad old bunch of defeated veterans yearning for the ‘Good Old Days’ that will never come again. Even the wider Protestant community is starting to see that. Go to George Best airport, Aldergrove and the ports any day this week. The Unionist community is on an Exodus leaving the bigoted remnants behind in their bitter, myopic, pathetic, wee world. These cave dwellers should get a life or even better considering they seem to have ALL the time in the world to protest and take to the streets, get a job.

  • dick swett

    lurig:

    ‘knuckledraggers and 17th century fundamentalists’

    interesting analysis. most historical consensus would suggest that this 17th century movement is associated with trends toward parliamentary democracy in rejection of roman catholic absolutism; an embrace of enlightenment principles and rejection of romanticism and mysticism; a cornerstone of mordern democratic and libertarian western values and a rejection of narrow ‘big’ church and state intervention in individual freedoms.

  • LURIG

    So dick, Cromwell was a ‘parliamentary democrat’? The English people couldn’t wait to bring the monarchy back after a taste of Cromwell’s spartan democracy. Must have been all those Protestant retailers who rebelled after he banned Christmas! Didn’t they dig him up and put him on trial after his death for beheading Charles I? The ‘Orange Order’ = ‘a cornerstone of modern democratic and libertarian western values’? HA! HA! HA! HA! At least you gave me a laugh there. ‘Narrow big church and state intervention in individual freedoms’ he says as The Church of England declares open war on itself over gays/woman bishops & the British government introduces the Frankenstein age with embryo research. You do jest don’t you……………….don’t you?

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Greagoir,

    I agree with you that Irish is one of the British Isle’s oldest languages and it should be treasured. I also know that in the past Ulster Prods played a leading role in saving it. And that certain Orange Lodges have Irish on their banners. However, through the efforts of the likes of Chris Donnelly the language has become a devisive, sectarian issue. I know that sounds mental. How can a language be sectarian? But, remember Isreali/Palestinian flags fly in NI on a catholic/prod basis even tho’ there are practically no catholic/prods in Israel. So, unfortunately it isn’t “ludicrous” to compare funding for the language for that of bunting.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Lurig,

    You mentioned jesting to Dick above. Having read your post 20 above, were you jesting at calling anyone else bigotted after that tirade?

    Have you had a really bad day or something?

  • Todd

    Why would Ulster Prods play a leading role in saving Gaelic in Scotland. Whats that all about!

  • Quagmire

    “If you you don’t like it , MOVE HOME”
    Posted by Ulsters my homeland on Jul 08, 2008 @ 12:51 PM

    What a stupid comment to make. Are you really that thick? We are home dim wit! There is no community in norn Iron, there are two communities. The nationalist community makes up just under half the population of the north and basically all the population of the south. You’ll find if anyone needs to move home it certainly isn’t the nationalist community. However I won’t go down that road. We all share this space and unionism can’t and won’t get away with the stuff it used to in the past when we had the infamous “Protestant Parliament for a Protestant people”, gerrymandering and croppies lie down mentality. We haven’t gone away you know, nor do we intend to. Indeed if anything we are growing stronger in numbers and confidence. People from my community are out studying for third level education, whilst people from your community are out beating drums and burning tyres! No shipyards and jobs for the boys anymore. My how the tables have turned. We know who we are, where we are and where we are going whilst you and you’re ilk stumble around searching hopelessly for an identity. Come back to me in 20 years when all the top jobs in this place are run by nationalists whilst Unionists complain about social and economic deprivation on their way to collect their dole, which will incidentally be paid out to them in Euros.

  • LURIG

    Indeed no Congal. Pray do tell what was bigoted OR factually incorrect about my post? FACT is many ordinary Prods are sick of the July 12 nonsense and can’t wait to get away from it. Now you may want to adapt the 3 monkeys SEE NO, HEAR NO AND SPEAK NO EVIL about the Orange Order but others see it differently as undoubtedly it’s dying on it’s arse. The only ones who stay around at this time are the diehards and farmers. Donegal & Dublin are crammed with Wendy’s & Ians from North Down and South & East Belfast, just ask any hotelier. The Orange Order is an anachronism that one almost, but not quite, feels sorry for. How far has the ‘mighty’ Portadown District Orange Lodge fallen when they are reduced to begging the residents of Garvaghy Road for talks? It was quite pathetic on Sunday but this quasi paramilitary organisation has brought ALL bad publicity and humiliation on itself. It is a sad, beaten, tattered, bunch of old men harking after the Good Oul’ apartheid days when Seamus and Nuala knew their place. In reality it should just fold up it’s tent, put away it’s collars and banners AND wither away in shame. It was the usual suspects in Larne, the same types that protested against Mary McAleese in Coleraine, the chapel at Harryville and against the children of Holy Cross.

  • cladycowboy

    Congal

    “I agree with you that Irish is one of the British Isle’s oldest languages and it should be treasured.”

    Self-evident isn’t it? You’re in a minority within your community though,

    “I also know that in the past Ulster Prods played a leading role in saving it.”

    They did indeed, thank ‘evans guv. They did this in times where the militant Republican of their day used Gaelic too. That didn’t stop them.

    ” However, through the efforts of the likes of Chris Donnelly the language has become a devisive, sectarian issue. I know that sounds mental. How can a language be sectarian?”

    The Red Hand of Uládh. Nationalists still embrace it despite it being a loyalist fetish. Can’t Unionists behave similarly wrt Gaelic?

  • Peat Blog

    Nevin,

    What that certain supermarket happen to have branding with the same colours as certain bunting which isn’t being funded by a certain council which a certain MP doesn’t sit on?

  • Peat Blog

    Judging by some comments I will probably have to dust down my copy of Animal Farm…

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Lurig,

    Here’s a few of the comments you made…

    “knuckledraggers”
    “17th century fundamentalists”
    “monosyllablic gum munchers”
    “couldn’t string two words together”
    “sad old bunch”
    “bigoted remnants”
    “bitter, myopic, pathetic”
    “cave dwellers”
    “get a life”
    “get a job”

    Again, are you jesting?

    Hi Cowboy,

    “The Red Hand of Uládh. Nationalists still embrace it despite it being a loyalist fetish. Can’t Unionists behave similarly wrt Gaelic?”

    I think we should. I think it should be introduced into state schools. It would also give Unionist kids access to first hand material relating to early Irish history which could have interesting consequences. That’ll take a while tho’.

  • “The Red Hand of Uládh. Nationalists still embrace it despite it being a loyalist fetish. Can’t Unionists behave similarly wrt Gaelic? “

    Somewhat over simplified I think (as much as I would dearly love it to be true). The “sectarian Red Hand” is still rejected by many nationalists. FFS I had to change an avatar on a forum recently after some wanknut claimed it was a “UDA symbol”. And look happened to Zoe Salmon after that Scottish fascist got stuck in.

    Sorry it’s OT… call it a pet peeve.

  • Oilifear

    dick swett,

    “… most historical consensus would suggest that this 17th century movement …”

    Extreme-late 18th century. Founded 1795.

    “… is associated with trends toward parliamentary democracy in rejection of roman catholic absolutism, an embrace of enlightenment principles and rejection of romanticism and mysticism; a cornerstone of mordern democratic and libertarian western values, and a rejection of narrow ‘big’ church and state intervention in individual freedoms.”

    Founded as a reconstituted version of the mainly-Church of Ireland “Peep O’Day Boys” following the “Battle of the Diamond” in answer to the alliace between the mainly-Roman Catholic “Defenders” and mainly-Presbyterian “United Irishmen”.

    All of the above were militant secret societies.

    (You appear to be confusing the Orange Order with the Glorious Revolution/Revolution of 1688.)

  • cladycowboy

    “Somewhat over simplified I think (as much as I would dearly love it to be true). The “sectarian Red Hand” is still rejected by many nationalists. FFS I had to change an avatar on a forum recently after some wanknut claimed it was a “UDA symbol”. And look happened to Zoe Salmon after that Scottish fascist got stuck in.”

    I’d say the vast majority of Nationalists would be happy wearing a item of clothing with the Red Hand on it.

    It’s always presented on it’s own, open palmed and sans attached motto. I’d suggest it’s this fetishization and corruption of the original that repels some nationalists.

    If your Red hand was clenched then the guy had a point but none if it wasn’t.

    The whole Zoe Salmon thing was blown out of proportion but she has also drawn the whole of Ireland covered in a Union Jack so she has previous, so to speak, and this allowed her motives to be questioned.

    Hi Congal

    ” think we should. I think it should be introduced into state schools. It would also give Unionist kids access to first hand material relating to early Irish history which could have interesting consequences. That’ll take a while tho’.”

    That’d be excellent. What do you think some of the consequences could be?

  • ggn

    “I’d say the vast majority of Nationalists would be happy wearing a item of clothing with the Red Hand on it.”

    Eh? What sort a’ Clady maun are you Sir?

    The Red Hand has been hijacked, hijacked I tells ye, by Tyronians!!!

    I would rather go naked than people thinking I was from Tyrone. NAKED!!!!!

  • cladycowboy

    “Eh? What sort a’ Clady maun are you Sir?”

    An exiled one, maybe that explains it!

    “I would rather go naked than people thinking I was from Tyrone. NAKED!!!!!”

    You’re not a Monaghan judge are ye?

    Ah sure, we’re half-Donegal in Clady anyhow 🙂

  • earnan

    I wonder how many years it will take will all these stupid parades and marches either a) no longer take place, or b.) no longer bring so much drama from the distant path

    Surely there are other problems in NI without worrying about your local council not helping to fund your celebration of a battle fought over 300 years ago that wasn’t exactly Waterloo or the Bulge to begin with.

  • percy

    earman
    If nationalists went outside when a March passed by and waved, smiling, looking happy; what would happen?

  • Capricorn

    Go home UMH? The Irish people that you tell to go home have been in this part of Ireland for thousands of years! How long have your ancestors been in Ulster? A few hundred years? How can we go home if we’ve been here all along!!;)

  • Michelle

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zöe_Salmon

    Leave her alone.

    She is hirsuitically-challenged (As well as centurially as the article makes clear).

  • Mike C

    …but she is hot.

  • Steve

    Sure if you like that tall skinny blonde look

  • Mike C

    I know, my taste just sucks….

  • The Raven

    Thank God I checked Page 2 – I was about to post in the same list as Congal.

    So much for “a shared future”. This thread is very much reminding me of the labels pinned on every Prod when the President was heckled in Milburn.

    Shockingly bad display here on both sides of the house…

    Ulster’s My Homeland, you need to rethink your approach when you write things like “move home”. Frankly, speaking as a Prod myself, you let the whole side down.

  • Clady, I was about to ask if you were from Tyrone yourself (until reading the following comment) because I simply can’t believe your claim about the “vast majority of Nationalists”. Tyrone-folk maybe. Maybe it’s an east-west thing, but the ones I know wouldn’t countenance it.

    (BTW the icon I was referring to was open-palmed but had the 6-pointed star – I thought it was marginally less ‘political’ than the NI flag (complete with crown) but apparently I was wrong as this was what they suggested using instead!!)

    “The whole Zoe Salmon thing was blown out of proportion but she has also drawn the whole of Ireland covered in a Union Jack so she has previous, so to speak, and this allowed her motives to be questioned. “

    Actually she chose a picture (drawn by a 7 or 8 year old girl IIRC) featuring the oh-so-offensive iconography as the winner of a kids art competition.

    I suppose after all that I should commment on the topic at hand. The problem is it’s a non-story. Yes, Orangemen MOPE (what’s new?). Just another chance for CD to point and laugh at those silly Prods making themselves look foolish.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Greagoir O Frainclin

    “[i]Hey ‘Ulster is my homeland’….another display of ignorance. You and the like continually ignore that rather substantial number of people who live among you too in NI who profess to ‘Irish’ only.”[/i]

    They can profess to be whatever the hell they like, it still doesn’t change the matter. They are in the union of Great Britian and N.Ireland (whether they like it or not) and the national colours are red, white and blue. If they don’t like it, they can live somewhere else. You wouldn’t oppose buntings going up in the national colours in any other country, so don’t do it here!

    [i]BTW, it was right not to display the British bunting for the 12th. If this was the case then the colours and symbols of Irish Nationalism should be displayed on particular dates significant to Irish Nationalists.

    Parity of esteem it’s called, so live with it.”[/i]

    Not in British N.Ireland. If you really want to live where the colours of Irish nationalism are displayed in any legitimate sense, go to the Republic and stop living in some wee fantasy world in N.Ireland, for this is British soil and will remain so, Tally-Ho!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Quagmire

    “[i]You’ll find if anyone needs to move home it certainly isn’t the nationalist community.”[/i]

    At home my ass!

    “[i]However I won’t go down that road.[/i]

    Why not? Is it because Irish Nationalists never were an historic part of Ulster? Is it because Irish Nationalism is a modern fantasy stuck in a Brian Boru time machine?

    “[i]We all share this space and unionism can’t and won’t get away with the stuff it used to in the past when we had the infamous “Protestant Parliament for a Protestant people”, gerrymandering and croppies lie down mentality.”[/i]

    If you want to share the space, accept the space for what it is, British (red, white and blue)?

    “[i]We haven’t gone away you know, nor do we intend to. Indeed if anything we are growing stronger in numbers and confidence. People from my community are out studying for third level education, whilst people from your community are out beating drums and burning tyres! “[/i]

    Typical patronising Irish.

    “[i]No shipyards and jobs for the boys anymore. My how the tables have turned. We know who we are, where we are and where we are going whilst you and you’re ilk stumble around searching hopelessly for an identity.”[/i]

    You must be the only nation to be so confident about your roots. What else do you expect from a lifetime of making up myths and legends to support your identity. Your identity is built on myth and lies.

  • picador

    For those of you who hadn’t noticed Umh is a troll.

    Who’d have thought that Larne council would stand accused of appeasing Fenians on the 12th of July?

    Is it April Fools’ Day?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Capricorn

    “[i]Go home UMH? The Irish people that you tell to go home have been in this part of Ireland for thousands of years! How long have your ancestors been in Ulster? A few hundred years? How can we go home if we’ve been here all along!!;)[/i]

    You Irish are so gullible, it’s really unbelievable. You seem to think the whole island was united before the English arrived and what’s more unbelievable you seem to think everyone was Irish before that, lol.

    Before the Pope gave ‘your’ island to the English, was it the common hiberni who were the Irish? or maybe it was the noble Scots who were the Irish?. What if you go back further, were the Priteni (Cruithni, in old Irish), were they the real Irish?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]For those of you who hadn’t noticed Umh is a troll. “[/i]

    Surely you can do better than that picador?

  • HeadTheBall

    “…have been in this part of Ireland for thousands of years…”

    In yer bollix yiz have. Sure most of yiz turned up looking for jobs after our crowd built the shipyards, et al.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “They can profess to be whatever the hell they like, it still doesn’t change the matter. They are in the union of Great Britian and N.Ireland (whether they like it or not) and the national colours are red, white and blue. If they don’t like it, they can live somewhere else. You wouldn’t oppose buntings going up in the national colours in any other country, so don’t do it here!”

    “Not in British N.Ireland. If you really want to live where the colours of Irish nationalism are displayed in any legitimate sense, go to the Republic and stop living in some wee fantasy world in N.Ireland, for this is British soil and will remain so, Tally-Ho! ”

    “Before the Pope gave ‘your’ island to the English, was it the common hiberni who were the Irish? or maybe it was the noble Scots who were the Irish?. What if you go back further, were the Priteni (Cruithni, in old Irish), were they the real Irish?”

    Hello again ‘Ulster’s my homeland’ – Oh dear oh dear, what a travesty of opinions above. BTW, but Ulster is my honeland too! Hard to believe that such opinions being expressed by yourself in this day and age! But maybe ye are of the very old stock.

    Regarding the ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, Please let us Irish folk have our symbol back – don’t take that from us too. The ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, symbol of the Irish Gaelic clan, the O’Neills of Ulster, not the UVF, the UDA, or whatever! Gas really that ye talk of the myths of Irish nationalism;…. and then ye try stealing Cúchulainn too to bolster yer flimsy position! Tut Tut!

    Regarding the Cruithni, but we are all of the Cruithni too! Gerry and Martin are members of the ancient Cruithni too. All of us in the ‘British Isles’ derived from the tribes of ancient Spain as modern genetic evidence has proven, Milesians in other words!

    Read ‘Blood of the Isles’ by Bryan Sykes and
    ‘The Atlantean Irish’ by Bob Quinn. Might help you with your confused identity! Might help to curtail your inane opinions and comments regarding Irish and British history!

  • Billy

    UMH

    I think you’re missing the point.

    The Council have 2 choices – either fund the Red, White + Blue bunting AND fund Green, White and Orange bunting or fund neither – which they have chosen.

    This issue wouldn’t arise in GB where most people wouldn’t object to red, white and blue bunting.

    This is only 1 of many laws i.e flags and emblems that are NOT applied in NI in the same way they are in GB.

    The point is that NI is NOT regarded by the British govt or people as being an integral part of GB or the laughable “as British as Finchley”.

    If Unionists in NI want to have red, white and blue bunting etc at Council expense that’s fine -they’ll just have to ensure that exactly the same rights are afforded to Nationalists – how times have changed eh?

    Likewise, the rules about flying the Union Jack from public buildings will be chnaged in GB but NOT in NI. It doesn’t matter how much Unionists MOPE – the GB govt will not take measures that will antagonise 45%+ of the population.

    If you want to live somewhere where the Union Jack will be flown from public buildings every day and/or there is no issue with red, white and blue bunting then I suggest you move to GB.

    Those days are long gone in NI and they won’t ever be coming back.

  • 0b101010

    Just another group of whingers looking for a handout for something completely unproductive.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]Hello again ‘Ulster’s my homeland’ – Oh dear oh dear, what a travesty of opinions above. BTW, but Ulster is my honeland too! Hard to believe that such opinions being expressed by yourself in this day and age! But maybe ye are of the very old stock. “[/i]

    I live in the present Greagoir, you are the one living in the past. When you propose that Irish Nationalists be allowed to fly their bunting in N.Ireland as a parity of esteem exercise, you are hyping back to a dying age when Brian Boru tried to claim Ulster and it’s people for himself. Don’t you get it? You lot haven’t changed from Brian Boru’s time, still the same old land grabbers, with the tired old ‘Ireland for the Irish’ mentality.

    “[i]Regarding the ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, Please let us Irish folk have our symbol back – don’t take that from us too. “[/i]

    You Irish seem to want everything. The redhand is a symble of Ulster, not Ireland.

    “[i]The ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, symbol of the Irish Gaelic clan, the O’Neills of Ulster, not the UVF, the UDA, or whatever!”[/i]

    The O’Neill saga was brought about by a number of factors including European affairs and religion, it was certainly not about some Irish Nationalist ideology, but true to form you Irish like to make out that it was. The island wasn’t even united during O’Neills reign, so how can you claim he was Irish? He certainly was Gaelic, but Irish? lol

    Why do you seem to think everything Gaelic has to be associated with Ireland or being Irish? That’s another myth you Irish have peddled for centuries.

    “[i]Gas really that ye talk of the myths of Irish nationalism;…. “[/i]

    ….agian you seem blind to who is actually creating the myths.

    “[i]and then ye try stealing Cuchullain too to bolster yer flimsy position! Tut Tut! “[/i]

    Cuchullain, the ‘Irishman’ who defended Ulster against the Irish, lol? Something not quite right about that sentence. Never mind, say it quick and no one will notice!

    “[i]Regarding the Cruithni, but we are all of the Cruithni too! Gerry and Martin are members of the ancient Cruithni too.”[/i]

    Not all people on the island are descended from the Priteni (Cruithni in old Irish), . Adams, I believe has Ulster-Scots blood in him, but he chooses to go the Irish root, because he was indoctrinated with this land-grabbing, ‘Irish island’ mythology from an early age. He also was born into a family who only seen their heritage with Irish goggles. McGuinness is most probably descended from the ancient Priteni, and he too has lost his true Ulster roots for an invasive Irish identity which was foreign to his Priteni ancestors. It’s a real shame!

  • Clady Cowboy

    Beano

    “Clady, I was about to ask if you were from Tyrone yourself (until reading the following comment) because I simply can’t believe your claim about the “vast majority of Nationalists”. Tyrone-folk maybe. Maybe it’s an east-west thing, but the ones I know wouldn’t countenance it.”

    Maybe my comment does only holds for Tyrone. However, there is a Red Hand in the Antrim GAA crest(as there is on Monaghan and Cavan’s too) so any Belfastman wearing that top is displaying it.

    “(BTW the icon I was referring to was open-palmed but had the 6-pointed star – I thought it was marginally less ‘political’ than the NI flag (complete with crown) but apparently I was wrong as this was what they suggested using instead!!)”

    It is less political than with the crown upon it and the guy was an eejit to be offended. The 6-point star is making a statement though. The Red Hand is such a powerful symbol there really is no need to ‘add’ to its symbolism or ‘update’ its meaning. It makes it easier to share that way.

    ggn

    realised after i replied to you that you must have meant Clady in Armagh and that you are a citizen of that county. Good luck to you, sir, but even more to the Ernemen 🙂

  • Clady Cowboy

    Ulster’s my homeland

    “You Irish seem to want everything. The redhand is a symble of Ulster, not Ireland.”

    Going past the obvious that Ulster is of Ireland, it should also be noted that the Red Hand was not Ulster specific but its popular adoption by many of the Gaelic clans in Ulster led to it being identified as the Red Hand of Ulster and not Red Hand of Ireland (as it may originally have been)

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]If Unionists in NI want to have red, white and blue bunting etc at Council expense that’s fine -they’ll just have to ensure that exactly the same rights are afforded to Nationalists – how times have changed eh?”[/i]

    …and what would be wrong with that? I don’t have a problem with Irish Nationalists getting bunting put up in whatever colours they want. If they want to put up Green, white and Gold bunting under a Union flag that’s up to them, but I’d much rather see them accept the red diagonal of the union flag, it belongs to them.

    “[i]Likewise, the rules about flying the Union Jack from public buildings will be chnaged in GB but NOT in NI. It doesn’t matter how much Unionists MOPE – the GB govt will not take measures that will antagonise 45%+ of the population.”[/i]

    Flying the national flag is not similar to getting bunting put up. If Brown wants to increase flying the Union flag in GB, that’s up to him and te people of GB. It doesn’t mean the flying of the Union flag in N.Ireland will change.

    The flag of this country is the Union flag, if Nationalists want to live under the pretense that their flag is the Republic of Ireland flag, that’s up to them. The St. Patrick flag represents them and I’d rather see them become a full part of this country instead of latching onto some island nation pipe dream instead of thinking they’re only a two-bit player. Maybe they want to be two-bit players, who knows!

    “[i]If you want to live somewhere where the Union Jack will be flown from public buildings every day and/or there is no issue with red, white and blue bunting then I suggest you move to GB.”[/i]

    I’m don’t care whether it’s flown every day or if there’s 10 flying, that fact that’s it’s flown is good enough for me. So I won’t be moving any time soon.

    “[i]Those days are long gone in NI and they won’t ever be coming back.”[/i]

    What on earth are you talking about? Brown is not changing the situation here. What he does in GB is his business. It doesn’t effect the status quo here so get over it, nothing is changing!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    Clady Cowboy

    “[i]Going past the obvious that Ulster is of Ireland, it should also be noted that the Red Hand was not Ulster specific but its popular adoption by many of the Gaelic clans in Ulster led to it being identified as the Red Hand of Ulster and not Red Hand of Ireland (as it [b]may[/b] originally have been)”[/i]

    may, probably, likely, presumably…..I love these words, don’t you?

  • Clady Cowboy

    Ulster’s my homeland

    “may, probably, likely, presumably…..I love these words, don’t you?”

    One tends to gravitate towards these types of words when discussing the ancient origins of a mythical symbol.

    Good for you that you are able to talk without such reserve.

    P.S The O’Neill clan was spread out across Ireland so it may have been on family crests in Meath long before a gable wall in Belfast..but again, this is only an educated surmisation.

  • Begagrs cannot be choosers

    Not only looking for handouts but accepting them from the financially independent RoI as well!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]P.S The O’Neill clan was spread out across Ireland so it may have been on family crests in Meath long before a gable wall in Belfast..but again, this is only an educated surmisation.”[/i]

    Clady Cowboy, while we’re making these educated guesses in regard to the hand’s original origins, may I remind you that many different types of hands were used to represent Scottish clans after the Norman families arrived in the 12th century, the golden age of heraldry. Unless we have solid evidence suggesting that the red hand was used before the Norman influence, then we could surmise that th Normans brought the hand symbol with them and the O’Neill’s adopted it.

  • RepublicanStones

    Im from Tyrone, I love the red hand. I do get a good giggle that loyalists love it so much they have ‘appropriated’ it.
    Also i see the old ‘leave if you don’t like it’ is being rehashed. Funny but im sure there were people asking other people to leave centuries ago, but they paid no heed.

  • Clady Cowboy

    Ulster’s my homeland

    “Clady Cowboy, while we’re making these educated guesses in regard to the hand’s original origins, may I remind you that many different types of hands were used to represent Scottish clans after the Norman families arrived in the 12th century, the golden age of heraldry. Unless we have solid evidence suggesting that the red hand was used before the Norman influence, then we could surmise that th Normans brought the hand symbol with them and the O’Neill’s adopted it.”

    Are you, er, taking the hand with that entire post? I’m well aware of the various theories regarding the origin of the symbol.

    You seem to be proposing a theory that renders your previous posts all falsehoods. Not only is the Red hand devoid of the Ulster-specific origins you suggest but an import from northern France. I feel cheated.La main rouge. C’est la vie.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    ‘Ulsters my homeland’ is an absolute hoot!

    A Unionist stereotype incarnate!

    Tells us then UMH, what language did the Cruithni speak ….did it happen to be Ulster Scots?

    Did they happen to be all Orangemen as well?

    Were they members of the Reformed Church too?

    You’re a bit of a silly billy, because your are rather naively and quite ridiculously superimposing today’s politics on a people that existed thousand of years ago. A people who were unaware of the concept of not only being ‘Irish’, but being ‘British’ or ‘Scots’ or whatever.

    Modern archaeology and genetics doesn’t support what ever your grandfather told you.

    So go on outta that, get up the yard!

  • Reader

    Begagers can’t be choosers: Not only looking for handouts but accepting them from the financially independent RoI as well!
    I live in Bangor. How much is my handout, and when will it arrive? Or am I living too far east to benefit?

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]You seem to be proposing a theory that renders your previous posts all falsehoods. Not only is the Red hand devoid of the Ulster-specific origins you suggest but an import from northern France. I feel cheated[/i]

    Well if my theory is correct, it renders more than my posts. There’s actually more evidence that Ulster was influenced by the Norse than a simple red-hand symble. There’s also a Njall Glundubh born in the middle 9th century, Norway, who is probably an ancester of the O’Neill’s, but the O’Neill family deny this, because they want to maintain a history of pure Irish stock.

  • Quagmire

    I think I can safely say that UMH is one of the funniest men/women that I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. You ever thought about doing stand up? You could be great you know! By the by anybody catch a glimpse of that Ulster-Scots pro-gramme the other night on BBC2? Absolutely hilarious!! Apparantly a vacuum cleaner is called (wait for it) a “floor sucker”!

  • RepublicanStones

    Well as Ulster-scots is just a dialect or accented english and not a seperate language all on its own, floor sucker sounds about right.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    This is gas stuff…..

    “…….because they want to maintain a history of pure Irish stock.”

    “Ulster is my homeland”, Mmmmmmmm, Yep indeed, possibly another candidate for the couch. Freud and Jung would detect that you display some sort of a deep neurosis and hang up about this contrived notion of ‘racial purity’ and you are projecting this onto poor ‘fenian’ paddy. This is the basis of your thoughts and it’s is leading to paranoia! Oh dear!

    BTW, Ireland is a little melting pot of all folk who have settled here since time began, when folk first got the boat and migrated north. What ever the myths tell us as well as genetic and archaeological evidence but we have had many visiters to our shores – Fir Bolg, Dé Danann, Africans, Iberians, Gaels, Picts, Egyptian coptic monks, Norse, Normans, English, Welsh, Scots, UK Stag Parties, Poles, Lativians, Estonians and the rest of the Eastern Europeans, Nigerians, Romanians, Chinese, Brazilians, Americans, Australians, etc, etc…that makes Ireland a little melting pot today. BTW, how are you getting on up there in NI with all these new immigrants to your shore. Ye coping well with it?

  • steve

    Augh aye GOF you know how it is when the sod becomes root bound you have to turn it over and replant

  • cladycowboy

    UMH

    “Well if my theory is correct, it renders more than my posts. There’s actually more evidence that Ulster was influenced by the Norse than a simple red-hand symble. There’s also a Njall Glundubh born in the middle 9th century, Norway, who is probably an ancester of the O’Neill’s, but the O’Neill family deny this, because they want to maintain a history of pure Irish stock.”

    Newsflash:
    Martin O’Neill held a press conference today at Villa park to deny that he has illegally approached Rosenborg midfielder Njall Glundubh. O’Neill admitted being an admirer of the player but added that he wanted to buy British to give a homegrown backbone to the team.

    Arsene Wenger, meanwhile,is homing in on Main Rouge Caen’s hot young prospect Patrice, saying that he’d never, never, never buy British.

    Wise up man, you’ve probably got a bit of O’Neill in you too.

  • “even backwoods councillors in Larne…Hogan”

    That would be the ‘backwoodsmen’ who voluntarily have a cross community power sharing arrangement despite there being only 2 nationalist councilors out of 15.

    “Who’d have thought that Larne council would stand accused of appeasing Fenians on the 12th of July? Is it April Fools’ Day? …picador”

    Who accused the Council of ‘appeasing fenians’. This and many of the other comments in this thread says more about the inherant bigotry of most of the posters on Slugger and their easy stereotyping of ‘loyalist Larne’, than anything else.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi All,

    I would imagine the laughing and fingerpointing at the ignorant and primitive Ulster Scots must be similar to the laughing and finger pointing at the ignorant and primitive gaelic speakers in past centuries. Something that their descendents are still quite annoyed about. What’s gaelic for irony?

  • Steve

    CG

    What’s gaelic for irony?

    Paisley!

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Steve,

    …and cryptic?

  • njall glendubh

    No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.

    Your search – njall glendubh – did not match any documents.

    T’Internet says I do not exist.

    Help me!

  • picador

    umh is like a refugee from loveulster.com

    You gotta feel sorry for them, the poor deluded fools. Whatever happened to loveulster by the way?

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Njall,

    Don’t worry you’re there…

    “Genealogical records show a Njall Glundubh b. circa 850 A.D. in Norway and married to Lund Verch Echach.Parents of Njalsdatter & Muirchertach na G-Cochaill Criceann MacNEILL.

    From this man Niall Glundubh the Ulster O’Neills take their surname not from Niall of the Nine Hostages. The first to take O’Neill as his surname was one Domhnall, born circa. 943 A.D. “Descendant of Niall” referring to his grandfather Niall Glundubh.”

    It seems Umh’s research skills appear greater than his detractors ;o)

  • picador

    “Genealogical records show a Njall Glundubh b. circa 850 A.D. in Norway and married to Lund Verch Echach.Parents of Njalsdatter & Muirchertach na G-Cochaill Criceann MacNEILL.

    Does anyone apart, from obsessive ethno-facsists, find this stuff relevant?

    umh, ffs stop trolling! Surely there is some weird loyalist site where you can post this crap.

    And for Jasus sake will the rest of you stop encouraging him. Bayfor aye gie mee floorsucker oot.

  • njall glendubh

    No standard web pages.

    Strange that?

  • Quagmire

    “Bayfor aye gie mee floorsucker oot.”
    Posted by picador on Jul 10, 2008 @ 04:49 PM

    lol. Absolute comedy genius! I tip my hat to you sir!

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    ‘Congal Claen’, perhaps the only Unionist on Sluggar who appreciates their Irish/British history and heritage!

    ….Also, just to add ‘Niall of the Nine Hostages’ was the chieftain who supposedly kidnapped St Patrick from Britain (or from where ever) and brought him to Ireland.

    …..UMH is gas!

    BTW, Floorsucker = ‘hoover’…. aka ‘vacuum cleaner?’ ……great stuff!

    …..has the Oolster-scoots definitive novel been written yet. Come to think of it….’Finnegans Wake’ was sort of written in Ulster-Scots when read aloud.

    ie…riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    condt…

    ….of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Sir Tristram, violer d’amores, fr’over the short sea, had passencore rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor had topsawyer’s rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse to Laurens County’s gorgios while they went doublin their mumper all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all’s fair in vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe.

    Aye indeed, Oolster Scoots – and that’s where Joyce really got his inspiration!

  • picador

    Quag, Greg

    Ardent loyalists (or true blue Ulstermen as they are occasionally wont to be known) are a source of rich pickings. One day I’d like to open a museum showing them in their full demented glory 😎

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Greagoir,

    Cheers for the kind words. Tho’, I think you may be being slightly unfair to many of the other Unionist posters. Would you also agree that there are many Nationalist posters who do not appreciate, the British aspect to their heritage?

    I feel our heritage should be uniting us rather than dividing us. The question then is whether that union is Ireland wide or British Isles wide.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Would you also agree that there are many Nationalist posters who do not appreciate, the British aspect to their heritage?”

    Indeed there is Congal Claen and such ignorance is equally indefensible!

  • Steve

    British isles what have they to do with Ireland

  • Congal Claen

    “British isles what have they to do with Ireland”

    As if to underline the point. Well done Steve!

  • Ms Wiz

    Coming back to the thread, this story is a bit of a non-event. Obviously the protesting Orangemen are either dim witted or just going through the motions cos someone at the council has probably already taken them aside and said that they can’t fund only one side of the community because under the new equality legislation the council would have to fund the ‘other side’ too. Of course that’s out of the question so the only way out of it is to not fund anyone. Problem solved, hence token Orange protest for slow learners.