“We are not entirely sure what the time scale is..”

The President of the Republic of Ireland, Mary McAleese, has echoed Taoiseach Bertie Ahern by linking a visit by the Queen there to the devolution of policing and justice powers here. From the BBC report

“We know that it is dependent on the completion of devolution, which hopefully will not be too far away. We had hoped that would be May.” Mrs McAleese said: “We are not entirely sure what the time scale is. We hope it will keep closely to the timetable.”

Indeed. Adds From another report

Mrs McAleese said she thought it unlikely a visit would take place this year. “I would be hopeful, though, that it would happen sooner rather than later,” she said.

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  • harry

    here we have the president of the country welcoming a foreign visitor to ireland, whilst that visitor retains over 5000 troops on irish soil.

    only when those soldiers are removed would it be an appropiate time for the english monarch to visit.

  • The Truth

    All the slaves of Ireland will be out with their backs bent and their forelocks tipped, mimicking their perceived superiors and lacking self-worth. Slaves All.

  • The Truth

    Mrs.Windsor should be welcome to this island of ours when she gets on her knees and grovels for forgiveness for all the murder her country has perpetrated in this fair land of ours. But I’m sure that arrogance will prevent this.

  • ulsterfan

    Can someone please tell me how these two issues are dependant on one another.
    Devolution of P&J;will happen when the unionist people in NI want it. After all it requires cross community support and it is clear at the moment not enough confidence building measures have been given to Unionists.
    The visit by the Queen will take place when an invitation is sent by the Irish Government and accepted by the Queen.
    Two entirely different matters.
    Life is complicated enough without making it unnecessarily so.
    The present line of argument might as well suggest devolution will happen if Ireland wins the Grand Slam and that will be a long time going on past performance—–60 years ago!!!!!

  • BonarLaw

    Harry

    actually it was HM who was welcoming a foreign visitor…

  • BonarLaw “actually it was HM who was welcoming a foreign visitor… ”

    but Mary was born and raised in Belfast so that leaves Betty from London as the visitor

  • slug

    Aside from the nature of the precondition being introduced, and I don’t remember this precondition being there before, doesn’t it seem undiplomatic for the Irish President to publicly issue fresh preconditions for a Royal visit to the Republic during this meeting with the Queen in NI?

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    Ah, the English Queen will be more than welcome to the Republic of Ireland. I wonder will she pay a visit to Kilmainham Gaol.

    When Pope John Paul II visted Ireland in 1979, the steady demise of the Catholic Church happened. The red carpet is enthusiastically being rolled out for Liz down south.

  • PeaceandJustice

    slug – “doesn’t it seem undiplomatic for the Irish [Republic’s] President to publicly issue fresh preconditions for a Royal visit to the Republic during this meeting with the Queen in NI?”

    Very much so. But remember the sectarian comments from Mary McAleese about Protestants.

    Regardless of where she was born, McAleese is in this part of the UK as a representative of a foreign power. You might think she would have some manners.

    And given the amount of visits McAleese makes to Northern Ireland in her capacity as head of a foreign government, I don’t see any reason to delay the Queen’s visit to Eire.

    After this latest outburst from McAleese, Unionist politicians should be telling her that she should stay away from Northern Ireland until after the Queen visits Eire.

  • Alex Swan

    “doesn’t it seem undiplomatic for the Irish President…..” it comes across as tacky and ill-mannered, maybe Mary is worried about being up staged on her home turf?

  • Belfastman

    Go on Mary give that one a kick up the arse and send her back to Britain, that english woman shouldn’t be allowed in Belfast.

  • Alex Swan

    “Go on Mary give that one a kick up the arse and send her back to Britain, that english woman shouldn’t be allowed in Belfast.”

    Posted by Belfastman on Mar 19, 2008 @ 05:01 PM

    Mary is the visiting head of state, that’s what 90% of her people signed up to, from some of the bloggs it would seem the penny hasn’t dropped!

  • cut the bull
  • cut the bull

    And englands screaming

  • Democratic

    “All the slaves of Ireland will be out with their backs bent and their forelocks tipped, mimicking their perceived superiors and lacking self-worth. Slaves All.”

    ….”when she gets on her knees and grovels for forgiveness for all the murder her country has perpetrated in this fair land of ours”….

    Don’t tell me it’s time for the misty eyed lyricists to pluck up their instruments once more…Will check back when a resonable debate is taking place I think.

  • myoldmansapostie

    Whilst Her Majesties’ subjects in Northern Ireland are delighted by the gracious visit of our good Queen, one must ask for what reason does Her respective head of state in the Republic of Ireland feel that the privilege of a Royal visit to a foreign country should have any impact on the feelings of Her Majesties said subjects in Northern Ireland on the devolvement of P&J;powers to an assembly which contains elements still strongly associated with a terrorist group with the most appalling record in civic irresponsibility and human rights violations in the western world ?

  • sayhellototheprolos

    Peace and Justice,

    You can take the girl out of Ardyone………

  • cut the bull

    Are the Sex Pistols misty eye lyricists too. When they sang about her they sang about the queen of their country and they were pretty pissed off with her.

    The message in their song had a certain appeal, although being banned from most radio stations and top of the pops of course, millions of copies of this single were sold in britain and it become a national anthem of the disillusioned youth.

  • fry the burger

    with a name like that you think he would appreciate the difference between adolescent fashion and pop culture and the actual substantive position of the broader adult population……

    did someone say Dave Allen ?

  • eranu

    Thank goodness the mad chip on the shoulder brigade haven’t found this thread or it would get totally ridiculous!

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘But remember the sectarian comments from Mary McAleese about Protestants.’

    i don’t recall any sectarian remarks from Mrs McAleese about protestants. She did refer to the discrimination catholics suffered. Which is factually and historically accurate. And she did not put it on a par with the Holocaust, as certain people would like to pretend. I am aware however of sectarian, anti-catholic legislation which Mrs Windsor is shrouded in.

  • cut the bull

    Can you not accept that not every one is falling headover hells about the royal family.

    Mohamed Al Fayed is hardly an adolescent punk rocker but a sucessful business man who has created and contiues to create a lot of employment in britain.

    He’s not exactly in love with her or her family either.

  • fair_deal

    I can understand players in the process using a carrot and stick approach to try and keep to the May target. However, I still can’t understand raising something that is neither (and for a second time).

  • cut the bull

    Ah! I forgot to mention the small matter of the death of his son Dodi and his girlfriend Diana

  • Turgon

    I am unclear what exactly Ms. McAleese was trying to achieve here. This will put no pressure at all on the DUP to agree to devolution of P+J as Nigel Dodds has just pointed out on Radio Ulster.

    There are some echoes of that episode when an Irish politician suggested an historical interpretation centre at the Boyne in exchange for concessions from unionists.

    I guess at least this episode is unlikely to increase suspicion and distrust of McAleese amongst unionists as it is already extremely high. It does, however, demonstrate that whatever she may think of herself and whatever some nationalists may think of her she is not and will never be some great cross community champion. Even if she wanted to be one; this episode shows that she has absolutely no concept of how unionists think. She is and will remain a tribal nationalist politician. Not that that is inherently wrong but it may not be how she wishes to see herself.

    This episode and the fact that she met the Queen at the university from which she was instrumental in removing the national anthem from graduation demonstrates that she has not changed much and unionists perceptions of her are most unlikely to change.

  • Greenflag

    ‘Even if she wanted to be one; this episode shows that she has absolutely no concept of how unionists think. ‘

    Eh ? Has anybody ? Not sure I’d use the words ‘think’ and ‘concept’ in the same sentence as ‘unionists’ . A bit like trying to introduce orang utangs to the finer points of euclidean geometry 🙂

    Why only the other day an idiot MPA one Neil McCausland DUP stated it was ‘premature’ to discuss the possibility of St Patrick’s Day being made a National Holiday in Northern Ireland . I wonder would it be premature to discuss the removal of July 12th as a provincial holiday in NI given that barely half the people in the province celebrate it ?

    No matter how white the unionist crow tries to paint itself the ‘black’ inevitably shows true :(!

    Repartition lads!

  • Turgon

    Greenflag,
    I do enjoy your posts despite our rather different analyses of most Northern Irish issues. That post is, however, not especially witty and in the absence of humour it is simply bigoted. I think you can do better both in terms of humour and avoiding sectarian bigotry

  • Lorraine

    the irish unionists are a bit like the illegitimate off-spring of royalty: kept hidden away due to the embarrassing nature of their condition.

    i’m surprised nobody had the wit to suggest a wee walk along mrs. windsor’s highway……………..

  • slug

    “the irish unionists are a bit like the illegitimate off-spring of royalty: kept hidden away due to the embarrassing nature of their condition. ”

    Again, a highly bigoted comment.

  • Greenflag

    ‘I do enjoy your posts despite our rather different analyses of most Northern Irish issues.’

    I do too 🙂 And ditto for yours .

    ‘That post is, however, not especially witty and in the absence of humour it is simply bigoted’

    Sometimes wit and humour are disguised as truth and sometimes vice versa . My apologies if it offended . But genuinely do you believe anybody on the planet has a real appreciation of how ‘Unionists’ think apart from Unionists themselves ? – Not that it matters mind you to anybody but Unionists . I would say the same is true of the Northern Irish Nationalist /Republican viewpoint only slightly less so ! I would be less than honest if I said I understood the Unionist mindset . I can sympathise with aspects of it -even admit to a faint legitmacy for it at the point of the establishment of the NI State but truly ‘understand ‘ – not yet anyway . However your efforts are painting a broader picture so kudos there .

    Be honest even you must have your doubts about some DUP spokespersons ? I know I do about some of the SF shower’s utterances. I mean even Paisley expressed a view in favour of St Patrick’s Day becoming a national holiday for NI .

  • Turgon

    Okay maybe I am a bit grumpy; I still have the flu.

  • T.Ruth

    Please do not judge all of us Unionists on the basis of poor well meaning Nelson.I dont know where he gets some of his ideas-maybe from Lord Laird=soon to be canonised as Patron Saint of plastic cards. I will not judge all of you Nationalists on the basis of ill prepared remarks by poor Mary. By the way, I have forgiven her for likening my parents to the Nazis and breeding fascist sectarian attitudes into our family.
    .Back to St.Patrick, a West Briton who showed a lot of courage and love for all our ancestors-except those whose ancestors died in the famine times. I have always celebrated St.Patrick’s Day. He is the patron saint of all Ireland which is nice in a way as he did most of his work in Ulster. His views on Christianity are close to those which I hold as an outcome of my CofI upbringing and Christian commitment..
    I think every village and town should have a cross community religious service on St.Patrick’s Morning followed by a big alcohol free St.Patrick’s Breakfast.Every body from every walk of life sitting down together. Every Orange and Hibernian lodge should parade with bands playing hymns to the service and back. I think St.Patrick would like that.
    T.Ruth

  • Greenflag

    ‘Please do not judge all of us Unionists on the basis of poor well meaning Nelson’

    I don’t except sometimes if I’m feeling grouchy 🙂 As for Nelson well I know he means well but he might need to get down off the DUP Pillar and place both feet firmly on the ground and take three deep breaths before he opens his gob :)! I know why I could never be a politician 🙂

    ‘I will not judge all of you Nationalists on the basis of ill prepared remarks by poor Mary.’

    You show wisdom beyond your years . If I were a Unionist I’d have been upset too . She might have done better to follow the suggested course of action I outlined above for Nelson McCausland .

    ‘I think every village and town should have a cross community religious service on St.Patrick’s Morning followed by a big alcohol free St.Patrick’s Breakfast.Every body from every walk of life sitting down together. Every Orange and Hibernian lodge should parade with bands playing hymns to the service and back. I think St.Patrick would like that.’

    A grand idea and should be worthy of support from all who cherish their Christian heritage regardless of denomination.

  • Lorraine

    slug
    that isn’t a bigoted comment, i am not a sectarian person. but watching the convultions of unionism trying to define themselves gives rise to such moments of light banter. i mean where else do you have a people who are british but speak ulster scots and shoot british constables at the same time………….

  • Reader

    Lorraine: i mean where else do you have a people who are british but speak ulster scots and shoot british constables at the same time
    What’s not British about either Ulster or Scotland from the Unionist point of view?
    And, in the recent troubles, what did the organisation that shot several Garda Officers call itself?

  • NP

    “Go on Mary give that one a kick up the arse and send her back to Britain, that english woman shouldn’t be allowed in Belfast.”

    as far as im concerned Brenda is German.
    Im a Republican in the Cromwellian school
    so why shouldn’t she visit
    we have to put up with her,
    till we get a guillotine

  • PeaceandJustice

    It’s ‘funny’ how Pan-Nationalists come on here making sectarian and racist comments against Protestants, Unionists, Loyalists and everything British … yet claim to be the Most Oppressed People Ever and would be outraged if Unionists called them similar things.

    Pan-Nationalists might want to re-read their comments and see if they would be acceptable if directed against Roman Catholics, Nationalists, Republicans.

  • RepublicanStones

    P&J;, please quote or cut and paste the ‘sectarian and racist comments against Protestants’ if you believe that is what they are, instead of spouting boring accusations. Some people on here have voiced opposition to the idea of unionism, and monarchy, with a little bit of humour thrown in. but I doubt if there were many racist or sectarian comments regarding the religion of protestanism

  • joeCanuck

    Are we becoming more civilized here on Slugger?
    There hasn’t been the same degree of naming calling against the British Monarch as there was on the last thread.

  • cut the bull

    For a different view on england and its monarch from english people.

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/moveagainstmon/

  • Pancho’s Horse

    How do you think the (real) Brits would feel if the Irish Head of State interfered in their internal affairs and insisted on visiting Britain while Irish Republican had troops stationed in Liverpool?

  • Eddie

    a) St Patrick’s Day should be a public holiday here. No question.
    b) If the Queen came to my town I wouldn’t bother going out to see her.
    c) Mary McAleese’s comment is ill-mannered.

    Where does that put me on the political spectrum?

  • cut the bull

    Looking at it like that most likely they would be pissed off.

  • Eddie

    Sorry – who would be pissed off??

  • Eddie

    Apology – I realise cut the bull was replying to another question, not mine at No 17

  • Steve

    I think its funny using auld lizzie windsor against unionists

  • joeCanuck

    Says more about you than them, Steve.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    It will be cringe-making to see all the token taigs lining up for the Queen’s shilling in Armagh tomorrow. Íosa Críost,what have we sunk to? At least, there won’t be any Republicans there …….. sure there won’t? Will she be doling out the Maundy money in Iraq soon? And Mary McAleese is no longer the President of Ireland (remember the amendments to the Constitution)but the President of the Free State. And I’m a paid up member of the chip-on-the-shoulder brigade.

  • cut the bull

    I was surprised none of the Loyal Orders and their accompanying bands particularly the ones which insist on carrying UVF and UDA flags and who are for ever stating that its their right to march the Queens highways have not had a parade or been officially represented at any of the functions she attended.

    They could always ask her directly if she supported their right to walk down the Garvaghy, Lower Ormeau, Springfield and Albertbridge Roads where they are unwanted and unwelcome.

    After all they keep introducing her into the parading disputes, nows the time ask her straight do you support us our not demanding to walk on your highways.

    Hold onto your bowler hats and not your breath while your waiting on an answer.

  • Steven Cassidy

    There is no reason for the queen to visit Ireland. In fact, the reasons aqainst it are legion.

    This Queen of England visitation agenda being pursued by Ahern and McAleese is really just a self-absorbed exercise in ego gratification through consorting with the world’s greatest celebrity by two mediocre politicians bereft of any real, constructive ideas for their nation

    Never mind that hosting a state visit by Queen Elizabeth is an incredibly abject and servile thing for Ireland to do. All it will acheive is a tarnishing of Ireland’s nascent reputation as country that respects its history and knows how to guard its dignity as a sovereign state.

    A state visit from Elizabeth to Ireland is no more needed by Ireland to get over its troubled history than an assault victim needs to invite her assailant for a nice homemade dinner to put the terrible experience behind her. “Gosh, maybe if I cook him some extra-specially delicious dishes for him and smile and fawn he consider giving back that jewelry he stole from me! Or maybe I’ll smile and laugh with him so much I’ll just forget all about my stolen property, as if it never existed!! Problem solved!!”

    It’s all so dumb and pointless and misguided.

    There is no reason for this visit at all!! It’s an international embarrassment for Ireland. I cringe with shame that this could happen anytime soon. Let Ireland be united before we consider such a thing.

  • kensei

    Now, perhaps I’m missing something here, but didn’t the President simply repeat what An Taoiseach has already said? She was asked a question, and answered with the policy of the government. Constitutionally correct, surely?

    Turgon

    This episode and the fact that she met the Queen at the university from which she was instrumental in removing the national anthem from graduation demonstrates that she has not changed much and unionists perceptions of her are most unlikely to change.

    For the second time, Turgon, she didn’t remove the “National anthem”. The fact that Nationalists don’t want it anywhere near their graduation did.

  • overehere

    Kensei

    You just piped me at the post about the President reitterating what the policty of the Irish Govenment is at the moment. Surely that is the correct thing to do.
    what if HM was asked if she agreed with the Iraq situation and she replied “well if it were up to me I would have been on the march against it in the first place” Of vourse she would not reply like that (if she could answer at all) she would reitterate her Governments policy on the situation.

    So the moral of the story is “wind yer necks in” no one on the planet is listening to your whinning!!

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    Ah, sure god save the very “British” queen, Queen Elizabeth II, to giver her her title. Here to see her very “British” subjects in Ireland, decendants of those placed here years ago to “manage” things, and still proud of it too today!

    Regarding “British” royalty, what about that very genuine “British” blue blooded King James II who was given the boot for a Dutchman foreigner who usurped the very “British” crown. What an “unloyal” bunch of forelock tuggers at times!

  • cut the bull

    Will the District Master or any one else from Portadown District LOL No 1 be meeting her today on behalf of the Orange Order in Armagh to ask her if she supports their right to walk down what the Orange Order continually refer to as her highways.

    This could be helpful in solving the parading disputes throughout the North and finding out exactly her views as her name and reference to her highways is continually raised by the Orange Order.

    Go on ask her, I dare you.

  • cut the bull

    The Pride of the Raven Flute Band could have done a royal command performance on the Newtownards Rd yesterday, as this band and Philip her husband seem to have a lot in coommon.

    Both have had been labeled racist.
    Here are some of philips outstanding moments,

    The Prince was visiting the Tjapukai Aboriginal Cultural Park in Carins, Northern Queensland.The Prince was shown around by Ngoonvi. The Prince was told that two Abroginal tribes that run the centre: the Djabugay and the Yirrganydji.
    Queried the Prince: “Djabugay and the Yirrganydji, what’s it all about? Do you still throw spears at each other?”

    Prince Philip, who has been accused of insensitivity in the past, was touring a high-tech electronics company when he spotted a fuse box which looked less sophisticated than other state of the art equipment in the plant.
    “It looks as though it was put in by an Indian,” he said.
    Kumar Murshid, chairman of the National Assembly Against Racism, said he was amazed that a man in the Duke’s position of influence had said such a thing.

    Or when he told British students while visiting China in 1986, “If you stay here much longer you’ll all be slitty eyed”

  • Does Mary still have her house in Warrenpoint(?) – or is she an ‘on the run‘? 😉

    Apparently she couldn’t pop up to Warrenpoint without the Government’s permission:

    “9. The President shall not leave the State during his term of office save with the consent of the Government.”

  • qubstudentcouncillor

    I attended yesterday’s centenary celebration in QUB. I am a member of student council and I received an invitation to meet with a ‘VIP’Party. I was never told who was attending.

    As it is Easter Week, I wore my lily with pride, to commemorate Ireland’s Patriot dead. I intended to speak to Mrs Windsor and ask her to one day repent for the wrongs for her forces had committed against my people…I wasn’t given this chance.
    The barrage of abuse I received from my ‘colleagues’ on student council verged on racist. For two hours I listened to snide comments about my culture and heritage but not once did I ‘snap’.

    The problem got worse when I was asked to leave the line that was to greet Mrs Windsor by a member of the PSNI because I ‘looked nervous’. He subjected me to another security check on the guest list despite the fact I had already been through three. No-one else was questioned about their presence.

    Eventually when Mrs Windsor appeared, she was ushered away from where I was standing. I felt belittled and inadequate…I believed the day of petty ‘them and us’ politics was behind us…I am obviously mistaken.

    In fairness to an t-Uachtarán, she spoke to me and was friendly and a pleasure to be around, its a pity the same couldn’t be said for Mrs Windsor!

    I was going to an event to celebrate the centenary of my University…not a party political broadcast from the Democratic Unionist Association (the DUP’s branch in QUB)!

  • Look at the facts

    Bertie PLC has judged this incorrectly. If the queen comes to Dublin the Love Ulster riot will look like a picnic. It just will not be accepted. Do people actually envisage the union flag been waved on the highways and byways of Dublin. I know they are Jackeens but they would never live that down.
    The abuse I would shout into the Hill in summer, the Jackeen waving so and so. Corner boys, Ah bud 🙂

    There will be no public walkabout for her, she will not be able to engage with the public for fear of something going wrong.

    Let’s hope that O’Connell Street is not a building site if she’s permitted to come for tea.
    Will she have a pint in Fagan’s, this is great.
    Will there be a load of river dancers leaping for her.
    Will she be presented with a woollen jumper and bag of spuds.
    Funny also how she is waiting for the nod the Republican Party.

    It is actually funny.

  • ulsterfan

    The visit to the Free State would be a great opportunity for Irishmen of all political hues to thank Britain and England for all the wonderful things they have bestowed on Irishmen for hundreds 0f years .
    I am sure the Queen will accept their gratitude very graciously.

  • cut the bull

    Is there any Orangeman who could answer my earlier posts in relation to the LoyalOrders asking their queen, if she supports their right to march on what they continually describe as her highways?

    This question could be important in helping with the issue of disputed parades and would be awaited with interest by the Loyal Orders and residents of places like Garvaghy, Ormeau, Springfield and Albertbridge Roads who object to such parades.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    “…..to thank Britain and England for all the wonderful things they have bestowed on Irishmen for hundreds 0f years.”

    ….like a sense of servility as displayed by your obedient self!

    🙂

  • darth rumsfeld

    “I felt … inadequate”
    .. and rightly so, you juvenile delinquent.

  • Turgon

    Kensei,
    Ms. McAleese was the pro Vice Chancellor in charge of the decisions which resulted in removing the national anthem and RUC band. She is a nationalist and supported a tribal nationalist decision. That is not my fundamental problem with her; it is that she pretends to be something other than a tribal nationalist politician, that I find objectionable, in view of her assorted past actions and indeed this latest outburst.

    qubstudentcouncillor,
    How mature. You were going to meet the Queen and make embarassing political remarks. Little wonder a mechanism was found to remove you from this. In years to come you may even be grateful for having been saved from your own youthful foolishness.

    By all means do not meet the Queen but to meet her and be insulting is just student silliness writ large. If Mary McAleese came to my place of work I would not meet her but would not make a fool of myself by meeting and insulting her.

  • PeaceandJustice

    To ‘qubstudentcouncillor’ – you need to grow up and learn some manners. Every time a Unionist encounters the sectarian head of Eire, should we ask her to repent for the wrongs of her country against Protestants – and for harbouring terrorists.

    To ‘cut the bull’ – the only point to your posts seems to be to try and wind people up.

    On one hand I find Pan-Nationalists on here insulting to my culture and heritage while claiming they are the Most Oppressed People Ever so must never be criticised. On the other hand, they are doing Unionists a favour and helping to politicise even those Protestants who could be described as ‘Unionist Lite’. Thanks guys.

  • ulsterfan

    Those nationalists and republicans who heap insults on the Queen only show their hatred and bigotry which makes me a loyal subject of her majesty feel very good indeed.
    They have lost the moral high ground!!
    God save the Queen.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    This is hilarious!

  • cut the bull

    P&J;I’m not trying to wind any one up the use of the the terms the queens highway has been used continually by loyal orders and bands.

    Some of the worst rioting seen throughout the north for years in the aftermath of the Parades Commission determination in relation to the whiterock parade on the 13th July 2005 cost the taxpayer £3 million pounds.

    The Orange Order stated that this came about about because it was prevented from parading on what it termed the queens highway.Now who’s doing the winding up, get real.

    This is a searching question that needs answered, does she support the Orange Order’s right to march on what they term their queens highway especially in communities where such parades are unwanted and unwelcome.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Dog save Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and Mr Papadopoulos and all who sail in her.She will always be welcome in my country without her troops.

  • cut the bull

    I think there may be a reluctance to ask this question as her answer could be very embarrassing for those who continually use her name in defence of such parades.

    If gave her loyalty and recognised her as my queen and contiually used her name in defence of my actions, I would surely ask her if she supported me doing this.

  • kensei

    Turgon

    Ms. McAleese was the pro Vice Chancellor in charge of the decisions which resulted in removing the national anthem and RUC band. She is a nationalist and supported a tribal nationalist decision. That is not my fundamental problem with her; it is that she pretends to be something other than a tribal nationalist politician, that I find objectionable, in view of her assorted past actions and indeed this latest outburst.

    Turgon, if the band had not been removed by her, then it would have been removed later by whoever held the post – nationalist or unionist – because the situation would have became untenable. She took the only viable decision, and because it happens to coincide with her political beliefs does not make it an incorrect one. You are pursuing a non sequitir because it suits you.

    Moreover, this “latest outburst” was merely following protocol – she repeated the governments position. If you have an issue, it’s with Ahern, and you need to pay attention.

    How mature. You were going to meet the Queen and make embarassing political remarks. Little wonder a mechanism was found to remove you from this. In years to come you may even be grateful for having been saved from your own youthful foolishness.

    He’d have been right to express his opinion, if done with civility. Or should the Queen only hear sycophantic voices? Sums up the problem with the whole damn thing. Off with their heads!

  • Reader

    kensei: He’d have been right to express his opinion, if done with civility.
    As should any Jaffa, addressing the President of the RoI at a public engagement in Dublin.
    So let’s look for an equivalent to our young student’s request: say, “I intended to speak to Mrs McAleese and ask her to one day repent for the wrongs nationalist terrorists had committed against my people”
    Not that I hold Mary McAleese personally responsible for acts done in the name of the Republic of Ireland, of course.
    And “Civility”, as you label it, does follow significantly different rules at formal events with lots of participants. If yer man didn’t want to join in, he didn’t have to go.

  • qubstudentcouncillor

    ‘If yer man didn’t want to join in, he didn’t have to go’.

    I wasn’t told who was attending, I was only told that the University was hosting ‘high profile visitors’…I was there in my capacity as a student councillor to represent the student population.I had every right to express my own personal beliefs in the same way other councillors did.

  • kensei

    Reader

    As should any Jaffa, addressing the President of the RoI at a public engagement in Dublin.

    Your endless, endless whataboutery is tedious, but I don’t disagree.

    So let’s look for an equivalent to our young student’s request: say, “I intended to speak to Mrs McAleese and ask her to one day repent for the wrongs nationalist terrorists had committed against my people”

    I don’t believe that the President is the head of any Armed Forces that have been involved here. That cannot be said of Mrs Windsor.

    Not that I hold Mary McAleese personally responsible for acts done in the name of the Republic of Ireland, of course.

    I don’t Mrs Windsor responsible, but the entrenched privilege brings out the worst in me.

    And “Civility”, as you label it, does follow significantly different rules at formal events with lots of participants. If yer man didn’t want to join in, he didn’t have to go.

    Strangely more formal when there is a Monarch about. I think going to make damn sure it’s known you aren’t bending the knee is legitimate protest in a democracy.

  • Turgon

    qubstudentcouncillor,
    You may have had the right to express your beliefs. However, this was not a forum for expressing your political views. It was a meeting with a head of state. As I said I would not be willing to meet Ms. McAleese as I regard her as a unreconstructed bigot and hypocrite. If I was at an event where she was I would simply avoid her. At such an event I would not be so impertinent as to tell an honoured (by some) guest what I thought of her, nor would I have asked her to apolpgise for anything.

    Even if you did have the right in this context to make a political point you might have had the maturity and responsibility to decide not to. Then again maybe not.

    Incidentally tell us how big was your electoral mandate to be a student councillor? I remember that the number of votes needed sometimes gets to double figures. Maybe your “representation” is rather smaller than you would like us to believe.

  • cut the bull

    I’ll open it up.

    Are there any Orangemen, Apprentice boys or members of the Royal Black Preceptory or even a band member. Who could answer my earlier posts in relation to the LoyalOrders asking their queen, if she supports their right to march on what they continually describe as her highways?

  • Steve

    Turgon
    Your response is only correct if you believe that Mrs Windsor is due respect beyond what she has earned, most true republicans would not consider that she has. Being squirted into and out of the right womb does not automatically confer respect unto you

  • Belfast Gonzo

    I’m not sure I ‘get’ this…

    Mary repeats what Bertie says: Queen can’t visit Dublin til P&J;is devolved.

    And this is bullying unionists? How?

    Why would they care?

    Answer: they don’t.

    Therefore, the reason she said it was for nationalist/republicans’ benefit. Make it look like an eventual victory for them by ‘offending’ unionists. But I doubt if too many unionists care if Liz ever gets to Dublin, meself.

    Zero-sum politics, with a bit of bluff.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Regarding “British” royalty, what about that very genuine “British” blue blooded King James II who was given the boot for a Dutchman foreigner who usurped the very “British” crown.”

    Oh come on Gregoir, stop trolling.
    James Stuart was part of a dynasty that was grafted on to the Tudors, who themselves arguably stole the Crown, and was only the latest in a long line from William the Conqueror to depose the existing Sovereign,( and I haven’t the knowledge to go back further).

    And before you get all sniffy about the pedigree of the Royal family, even the Stuarts scottish ancestory include many examples of skullduggery- Robert the Bruce etc. Monarchs all over the world have broken lineage. How you get to be King is a mystery- the Albanians wanted an English cricketer before settling for KIng Zog.

    If a nation by its constitution recognises someone as monarch, you should show them-and those who give allegiance to them- respect.After all, we fully respect the entitlement of the Irish people to give their allegiance to that ghastly jumped up woman , though we wonder why on earth you elected her. Was Dustin the Turkey’s contract unbreakable?

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    Ah Darth, have you realized what you have just written?

    You have just reduced the staus of Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Great Britain & Northern Ireland and the Commonwealth of Nations, to the likes of King Zog (or an English cricketeer) of Albania.
    You have somewhat demeaned the English monarch, have you not?

    So anyone can be monarch!

    And then you say …..
    “If a nation by its constitution recognises someone as monarch, you should show them-and those who give allegiance to them- respect” ….
    You go on by insulting “that ghastly jumped up woman” the Irish President who was elected to her position by the people, unlike Queen Elizabeth II and her predecessors.

    What sort of rudimentary ideology is that?
    Does it depend on what the weather is like?

  • kensei

    Turgon

    Incidentally tell us how big was your electoral mandate to be a student councillor? I remember that the number of votes needed sometimes gets to double figures. Maybe your “representation” is rather smaller than you would like us to believe.

    It is still infinitely more than Mrs Windsor has ever received.

  • LlamedosL

    Rarely have I witnessed such an ill educated display of distorted republican naked hate.If you are all going to comment on HM Queen’s and HRH Prince Philips lineage learn the facts first. You will then possibly be able to see what a bunch of juvenile smutty ignoramuses you are with attitudes like this there is no hope.