Stormont ‘tit for tat’ will put off investors…

In the wake of the Mairead Farrell commemoration event at Stormont on Friday, which seems to have drawn all hands on deck (to the point of stretching the party’s full time staffers extremely thinly on Friday), there have been protests and counter protests. The Assembly imposed a ban on filming within Parliament buildings to prevent the proceedings there being filmed and have inadvertently banned BBC cameras from Monday’s Assembly plenary. Gerry Adams has is not impressed:

As we work during the next few months to persuade US investors and others to attend an investment conference in May, which is about creating jobs for people, picking sham fights will only serve to dissuade business people to come here”

Garrett FitzGerald had an interest and informed perspective on this angle in his Irish Times column this weekend. It was highly critical of Unionists too, but for entirely different reasons:

I can recall meetings with parties in the North at which I endeavoured to alert members of different parties to the catastrophic decline in that area’s share of our island economy – but evoked only blank looks from both sides. I had hoped that when the time came in the mid-1990s for these parties to sit down together to seek a settlement of their differences, they might at last consider addressing crucial economic issues.

Perhaps it was too much to hope that Sinn Féin/IRA, which had spent a quarter of a century seeking to destroy the Northern Ireland economy, would at that stage start to reflect on the extent to which their activities had succeeded in throwing up a huge new obstacle to progress towards Irish political unity. But, unhappily, in that negotiation unionists of both varieties appeared equally uninterested in serious economic issues.

It’s a familiar theme from FitzGerald. Last year he laid out in great detail just how badly the IRA’s war against economic targets debilitated the potential for political union with the Republic. Meantime, the ‘sham fight’ seems to be turning into a game of reactive aggression, with the first play being negative, and spiralling downwards.

Adams may be right in essence, but as FitzGerald notes there have been two players at this mutually self destructive game for some years.

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  • PeaceandJustice

    If the Sinn Fein PIRA leader is concerned about putting off investors, he should stop playing his own silly games. Wanting to celebrate a member of a Sinn Fein PIRA murder gang in Stormont is not very helpful – to put it mildly.

  • Turgon

    Peace and Justice,

    Well said. Of course since SF want Northern Ireland to be a failed state damaging investment with these silly games is of course, from their analysis, entirely logical.

  • victor1

    Stormont is supposedly for all Our people and should be reflected as so, but, I can’t help thinking Mairead Farrell would be turning in her grave, given that she gave her life to rid Ireland of British rule rather than administer it on the Irish peole North of the British imposed boarder.

  • Ah, Tat, the malnourished triplet …

  • joeCanuck

    I wonder who picked this fight. Hard to tell, eh?

  • The__Raven

    Which US investors are coming here? Are they coming here for anything more than a visit to the Giant’s Causeway, and a few jars at the Crown?

    I don’t think so…

  • DC

    Re Mairead Farrell, it could have been handled better if the DUP were to accept the concept of parity of esteem or were perhaps participants of the Belfast Agreement 10 years ago. They could have by now worked up or settled a Unionist concept of how to handle such fireballs.

    The DUP should have by now worked out suitable recognition of cultural traditions, including perhaps cultural events, cultural symbols, and appropriate cultural emblems.

    So when Sinn Fein pull stunts the DUP could well respond in confidence, along the lines of:

    ‘We understand the right to recognise culture and identity but as per Good Friday Agreement such recognition must be in a manner which promotes mutual respect and understanding’.

    The DUP need to give on cultural grounds or they will lose out to these stunts. As when Sinn Fein throw a ‘political-cultural’ missile at the DUP it bounces back off them highly-charged that sets off the ethnic-nationalists who believe a great unjustice.

  • The hind tit

    ‘Well said. Of course since SF want Northern Ireland to be a failed state’

    P&J;- When you are competing against an opponent (say playing chess or poker or in a race) it is important that you understand them. If you do, then you can anticipate their actions and gain an upper hand.
    Your analysis of SF and their desires for the NI state strike me as the least incisive analysis conceivable of a political party.
    By choosing to consistently see the worst in any person or organisation you end up seeing only your own virtual creation and failing to understand how to deal with them. Negotiation is all about trying to achieve win-win results (i.e. both parties gain from an agreement). To negotiate effectively you need to understand the desires of the counterparty to the deal.
    Look back at the catalyst that created the atmosphere for Sinn Fein and the IRA to be reborn from something consigned to history – i.e. the Civil Rights marches to protest against discrimination and the consequent police reaction to the marches.
    Nationalist politicians were confined then to tame collaborators who had no chance of ever sharing power with anyone let alone ask if it might be possible for the police to stop beating up people.
    Look at the situation now. SF ministers; North South bodies etc. etc. Can’t you see why the IRA were so willing to decommission and SF to become a part of British Government and accept the Police Force. The socio-political situation is diametrically different to the pre-Troubles one. Try getting away with the old ‘Wouldn’t have one about the place’ attitude now and see how well you succeed.
    SF would do almost anything to keep and build upon the current political compromise. The idea that they want to see a ‘failed state’ and the return to a war of attrition is plain foolish.

  • The hind tit

    Sorry P&J;. I should have directed that diatribe at Turgon.

  • Turgon

    Well if said diatribe was against me, I guess I should make some attempt at answering.

    We are not playing chess or poker; we are opposing those who murdered our friends and relatives. Hence, maybe the tendency to see the worst in them, since they have contrived to show us their worst.

    “Negotiation is to achieve a win-win”
    Since I see this as essentially a zero sum game my position is logical from my world view.

    I do not think the IRA were that keen on decomissioning; it was indeed an achievement of the DUP’s to make them do so.

    In terms of them wishing to return to a war; I have said before and will say again. At some point in the next twenty years I expect violence to start again. I hope to be wrong, maybe (God willing) I will be. Why am I sceptical, well because civil rights achieved almost everything they had wanted by the early 1970s; that did not stop the IRA’s murder campaign. I guess that and the number of bodies in the grave yards and memorials in the churches of where my in laws are from.

  • I’ll say this, there’s some brass neck on that guy. Gerry and mates pick a fight and then chastise unionists for standing up to their bullying. You couldn’t make that shite up.

  • DC

    You guys are so ruff and tumble! No where is there ever such a potential for a hybrid-political approach to be place whereby Stormont can access the experience of Westminster and Dublin to form approaches to life here in Northern Ireland.

    Talk about the opportunities of being able to talk about and develop policy against existing experiences of European life through Ireland’s role coupled with deep British political experiences got across the world, all of which we can participate in!

    And Turgon wants us to go back to war!

    Fuck sake, we have never had it so good. If you two have a minute, you should come and talk and I’ll try and explain something that could be end of everything here, a place that we all could know as extremely better than that horrible past.

    Lighten up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Please 🙂

  • Turgon

    “And Turgon wants us to go back to war!”

    What? Of course I do not want to have violence back. I have always opposed violence and said that I abhor death and destruction. i would be grateful if you would withdraw that remark.

    What I do is observe that we have had violence extremely frequently. 1641, 1688-91, 1798, 1916, 1918-21, the Border Campaign, the recent troubles. To think that the fundamental differences here are simply going to go away and that future generations (or even this one) will not contain people willing to go back to murdering people is naive to the point of stupidity.

    Lightening up implies that this is some sort of a game. I can take you to a lot of people who will very definately confirm it was not, is not and will never be a game.

  • DC

    A game implies a start Turgon, where do you want to start, is it really that far back? Can you not see the opportunities to be had from Stormont, protected by deep human rights and equality legislation, which means that our children and we ourselves have so many open channels to push past the old nonsense of narrow political politics and express ourselves without particularly a fear of death. Never would I express a wish for that. Politics is the key now Turgon, let’s work it. You got a particular stance to progress?

    There are problems, but they are being mismanaged by political parties. That can be dealt with.

    It’s a new start, the extremes are captured in democratic politics.

    Go back to warring-to-post war Europe, those afflicted would only be so glad to be a part of what we have now and be able to share in.

    Listen, Sinn Fein are loaded with problems, they belong in the past.

    If you cant see that I’m more than happy to meet up and talk about the future and set out how its so much better than any past that Northern Ireland ever had.

    Those that died didn’t do it in vain or to anyone’s disadvantage, quality of life is the measure and return to war is totally incomprehensible at this stage and forever in Ireland, I hope.

  • Turgon

    By all means bring out the Hume esque post nationslist / post unionist clap trap. It changes and will change nothing. It may make you feel warm and fuzzy but look at Stormont; I do not see warm fuzziness I see unrepentant terrorists sitting in government. I see a DUP so wedded to power that they sold out everything they believed in and all the dead just to get their power, influence and money.

    You think this is the best future Northern Ireland has ever had: tell that to the parents of Paul Quinn, Lisa Dorrian, Thomas Devlin.

    Ever wondered why I do not give out my name and blog under this foolish name? Because my wife will not let me. She is worried that one day, not today, not tommorrow, not even next year but one day people who are involved in politics will be high up the list of legimate targets. Not that not being high up that list did my father in law’s friend Douglas Deering much good, nor my wife school mate Marie Wilson.

    So spare me the psycho babble, the wish to meet me and tell me how rosy your future is. I stopped believing in Fairy stories a long time ago.

  • DC

    You’re still stuck in pre-98 and Jim Allister can’t deliver you past that, but I respect you because of your convictions and if you can get backing political backing for them then you have made progress.

    But don’t wax lyrical about deaths and imitidation unless you want to meet me and I will explain my own particular set of local circumstances.

  • DC

    *Intimidation*, for the pedants amongst us.

  • DC

    “By all means bring out the Hume esque post nationslist / post unionist clap trap.”

    And don’t insult me thanks. Tell me a bit your potential workable politics, or just remain in the narrowness of the past saved for failures.

  • joeCanuck

    I think you are totally wrong about future violence, Turgon.
    You have missed a key point; for the first time ever, the main republican party of the day have accepted the legitimacy of the state. Not only the leaders but the vast bulk of the “volunteers”. You know that I am no supporter of the IRA but I have been impressed by their discipline and willingness to accept the final decision of their leaders after, apparently, wide discussion among themselves.

  • Turgon

    DC,
    You ask me not to insult you by making a comment like Hume esque clap trap yet you said “Turgon want’s us to go back to war”. How about apologising for your genuinely offensive insult?

    joeCanuck,
    I see your point and as you know I am not impervious to reasoned argument. However, I am unconvinced that SF has accepted the legitimacy of the state. Indeed I do not fundamentally insist they do, in that they can believe in whatever they want as long as they accept the rule of law and not killing people; although I accept that rejecting the state and violence could be seen as two sided to the same coin. I can see circumstances where one could reject the state yet oppose violence; although I would disagree with that, it would be an honourable position.

    I am just not yet convinced that they will not go back to violence as and when it suits them. They have had some discipline I grant you but not that much and I do believe violence could be turned on again.

  • kensei

    Turgon

    I do not think the IRA were that keen on decomissioning; it was indeed an achievement of the DUP’s to make them do so.

    SF were using decommissioning as a bargaining chip and would hold on to it as long it was useful. The DUP had very little to do with it, to my mind: the British and US Governments ran out of patience, and that was far more important. The bargaining chip became useless. And probably just as important, we got to a point were the grass roots would swallow it.

    Moreover, there is a great big hole of your understanding of SF. It is an All Ireland party, with ambitions in the South. To that end it was both happy to dump the arms and happy to support the police.

    In terms of them wishing to return to a war; I have said before and will say again. At some point in the next twenty years I expect violence to start again. I hope to be wrong, maybe (God willing) I will be. Why am I sceptical, well because civil rights achieved almost everything they had wanted by the early 1970s; that did not stop the IRA’s murder campaign. I guess that and the number of bodies in the grave yards and memorials in the churches of where my in laws are from.

    If you follow the US elections, you’ll hear a lot about the Big Mo. In the early 70’s, violence had the Big Mo, pushed along by Bloody Sunday and internment. That is absent.

    I can certain scenarios were we wind back up in violence but they are not that likely at the moment; I also think it is highly unlikely it will be the PIRA, and suspect you run through the Unionist fallacy that all IRAs are really the same organisation.

  • George

    Turgon,
    the funny think about Northern Ireland is that the unionists think it’s the nationalists who are most likely to return to “violence” while it’s the nationalists who think the unionists will be the first to do it.

    Both sides seem to be convinced of their correctness on this matter.

    They are so obsessed with what the other side is up to, they, like Fitzgerald points out, are letting the economic world pass them by. Again.

    They were hoping for 60 at the big May investment conference when Paisley was to wave goodbye. They will be lucky to get 30.

    And when they are there, they will tell the investors that no, Northern Ireland can’t be trusted as being stable enough to devolve policing powers but yes, it’s a safe place to plough in your millions.

  • joeCanuck

    Northern Ireland can’t be trusted as being stable enough to devolve policing powers but yes, it’s a safe place to plough in your millions.

    I hadn’t linked those two, George. But you’re right, That’s a huge flashing amber if not outright red light.

  • The hind tit

    Turgon – Those who don’t learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. Many many people have suffered enormously as a result of the Troubles, but at some point we must look to the future and try to ensure that it never happens again (it doesn’t make the pain any less or the hurt less justified, but it does help to prevent it’s recurrence).
    If the Jewish people can have an embassy in Berlin and friendly relations with Germany then surely anything is possible and one flavour of Irish (or Northern Irish if preferred) people can live with and be friendly with another.
    Perhaps I have misjudged you in seeing you as overly negative and bent on seeing the worst in the other side. Prove that I have and provide a constructive answer to this:

    – How do you recommend that we go forward politically in a fair and equitable manner in NI?

  • snakebrain

    The Raven’s about right on this one. If Stormont was serious about attracting investment, which they don’t have a chance of doing to any significant level inside the next decade, they’d be devoting their energies to being out there doing whatever it took to bring in the business.

    It seems they’d rather squabble over symbolic arguments that only serve to confirm the view of the rest of the world that nothing has really changed in this parochial and regressive joke statelet.

  • willowfield

    George

    the funny think about Northern Ireland is that the unionists think it’s the nationalists who are most likely to return to “violence” while it’s the nationalists who think the unionists will be the first to do it.

    Well, I’m a unionist and I think “loyalists” are more likely to return to violence.

  • “There are problems, but they are being mismanaged by political parties. That can be dealt with.”

    Who by, DC? The mismanagers? 🙂

  • harry

    pennies from america, so that we can continue to ignore the use of shannon as a stop over for US bombers on their way to kill people.

    peace indeed.

  • The hind tit

    Harry,
    Can one resign both Irish and British citizenships?

    The first for providing Shannon to facilitate America’s surge (i.e. killing even more dirt poor Iraqis) and the second for Britain’s immorality (making up stories about WMDs just to get on board with the cluster bombing of Iraqi villages).
    Yo Blair, let’s bomb. God told me to!

  • dub

    Turgon,

    If you are a unionist and see things in zero-sum terms you will lose everything you hold dear. You should read Tommasso di Lampedusa’s The Leopard, “in order for things to remain the same, we are going to have to change”.

    You are too intelligent not to know that letting understandable emotion cloud your views is just stupid and entirely counter productive. And you are also too intelligent not to know that if you wallow in Prodiban TUV fantasies you will achieve precisely nothing in the real world, the real world will simply pass you by. Is that what you want?

    To use the language of psychobabble, what is more important to you: to be “right” or to be happy through achievements?

  • orly

    The rest of the world is really going to look kindly on some elements of the “government” having memorials to terrorist bombers. Ya…that’ll look really good.

    Thank Christ i’m emigrating out of this disgrace of a country.

  • Turgon

    The hind tit,
    With respect I need prove nothing to you. I have been commenting here for many months and also blogging now since just after Christmas. If you wish to regard me as negative you are free to do so. Anyone who wants can make up their mind as they choose on me. You might wish to read my previous blogs or just form an opinion based on your prejudices; that is up to you.

    I have set out my views on the future before but in brief: I want to see a proper end to the terrorists of all sides which means them not holding the populations of South Armagh or parts of Belfast or East Antrim in thralldom with no one seriously trying to help (Fair_Deal being an example of the all too rare honourable exceptions).

    I would like to see power sharing and yes I can just about entertain SF in government albeit with vast reservations. They have not, however, done anything like enough for me, as such if it is to be Direct Rule even with some Dublin involvement so be it; better that than unrepentant criminals in government. As I have said before the Dublin government is notable for having no murderers in its ranks.

    However, yes I would prefer devolution. That would inevitably mean power sharing. We do not, however, have power sharing: we have a sectarian carve up of power, a different thing.

    I would want a proper cabinet with collective responsibility, the ability to form voluntary coalitions and not the imposed dictatorship of d’Hondt. I would want some likelihood of being able to remove any of the governing parties at an election. I would want an end to the endless interlocking vetoes which prevent proper progress. I would want powerful measures against parochialism and corruption which already seems to be becoming endemic.

    I have been saying this for some time. I joined the TUV because I was asked publicly on this web site. If I find that they are actually a bunch of flat earth bigots who do not want “a fenian about the place” then assuredly I will leave.

    However, I must admit that diatribes from yourself and condescending insulting nonsense from DC are not exactly inspiring me. You and DC might wish to paint me as a flat earth reactionary ill-educated bigot: be my guest, I am not beholden to your views of me.

    Dub,
    At last a sensible person with whom to debate. It is not really emotion; it is an analysis that those who were willing to murder to gain political ends in this country are not really suitable for government. This was not Rhodesia or South Africa, of course Stormont was corrupt and discriminatory. By the mid 1970s it was gone and still the murderers of both sides carried on.

    You also know; as we have discussed before, that I am more opposed to violence than anything else. If I had been able to stop terrorism by agreeing to a united Ireland in 1969, I have said before and will say again, I would have accepted it. Of course that was then, I was not born and it would not have stopped violence.

    In a way it is more important to be right even if that means more losses because I do believe that this house built on sand cannot deliver prosperity for our people and that it will not prevent future violence. Sadly I do not believe that a united Ireland would prevent future violence either; if I really did believe that it would I would very seriously consider if not supporting, acquiescing to it. For me to say that will not surprise you but may some of my more trenchant and less understanding critics.

    The one thing I accept is that zero sum game is maybe too negative. It may not be a zero sum game on say the economy etc which is what we were supposed to be discussing and I apologise Mick for being involved in brining the debate down to this level. However, on the constitutional position it is still perilously close to a zero sum game.

  • Steve

    Turgon
    By the mid 1970s it was gone and still the murderers of both sides carried on.

    It was gone by the mid 70’s precisely because of the republican terrorists not inspite of them. What replaced it was in many ways worse. No local responsable representation left the english free to play their games with out interference or accountability except when the republican terrorists brought it to the world stage.

    This time if it collapses it will undoubtedly be by the loyalists and this time they will find no favour in London, the government will impose much more than GFA it just won’t have local elections.

    They have tried the carrot and now its time for the stick

  • Hogan

    If the Farrell event had been filmed it would’ve ended, “Thankyou for watching, this has been a Dundela/Connolly production”

    Unfortunately it won’t cut much ice with American investors, perhaps Hume’s remarks of “you can’t eat a flag” could be extended to ‘dead republican’s memories’?

  • DC

    “I would want a proper cabinet with collective responsibility, the ability to form voluntary coalitions and not the imposed dictatorship of d’Hondt.”

    Boils back down to why we are where we are Turgon. What identity do you want for Northern Ireland? What about nationalists and group rights that they want to exercise in some fashion.

    Everything has been enforced for the want of Unionists bent on a way only acceptable to them. It’s one thing having a Fenian about the place in a political sense, but letting that Fenian express him or herself is something the TUV and DUP have great difficulties with. Re the IRA-symbols that can be argued against with ease as being wholly inappropriate, but with so many other culturally vacuous DUP-TUV stances the whole lot gets confused as being one, which they are not.

    It is likely that mechanisms of government can change but there will need to be security and confidence and a new identity for Northern Ireland that will allow a sense of ease to focus on more substantive areas, or substantive at least in unionists’ minds.

  • Turgon

    DC,

    You asked for my alternative, I gave you one. Now you do not seem to like it. Again you retreat into nonsense and Hume esque waffle.

    There can and will be little confidence for many unionists whilst we have the Deputy First Minister proudly telling us how he would have murdered people. We can have little confidence whilst SF MPs tell people they would not go to the police with information or whilst another MP runs off to the IRA and then bismirches the character of a young man whom his friends murdered. I doubt the relatives of Lisa Dorrian have much confidence when they see the craven failure of the state and the police to take on various drug dealers. I doubt the parents of young Mr. Devlin murdered on the Antrim Road have much confidence when a PUP politician says he knows who killed him but is not prosecuted for not going to the police.

    On a personal level I still await an apology for your scurillous lie that I “want to go back to war.”

    Sorry DC you can produce all the old recycled mumbo jumbo as your own version of the blessed St. John of Foyle’s single transferrable speech but it does not wash. Also DC it seems that at least a few unionists share my analysis.

    Whilst you are at it do not tell lies about me: I have no problem as you so colourfully put it in a “Fenian expressing him or herself” unless that is by glorifing murderers. If you cared to read my previous blogs you will find equal if not greater contempt for any attempt by loyalists to do the same.

    I will not indulge in your psycho babble and nonsense but I put it to you that people like me are a threat to you. That is because we stand there and simply say that we oppose violence and its supproters and that we wish unionists to leave this current executive and either have a renegotiation of the agreement to exclude unrepentant terrorists or have direct rule; and as I have said whilst I am not dying about Dublin involvement I would rather have that than a pack of terrorists making decisions on my and my family’s future.

    The identity I want for Northern Ireland is less vital than preventing it form being ruled by criminals.

  • The hind tit

    Turgon
    Thanks for the response. I am not familiar with your previous blogs having discovered Slugger only a few days ago. However your perspective is obviously more complex and less negative than some of your recent comments had suggested.
    I share a lot of your opinions, but am more optimistic about what can come from the first steps in shared government. It is an unfortunate reality that in times of extreme difficulty the popular vote polarises towards those parties that promise most to their respective electorates (Never, Never, Never and Tiocfaidh ar la).
    As normality gradually comes to NI (I almost said returns, but we have never had anything that the outside world would consider normality) then these extremists will lose their attraction and ministers / parties will be judged by their effectiveness and positive attitudes. Attract shoals of foreign investment and I will vote for whoever enabled this whatever party he represents. Become obsessed with trivialities and offending the other side and you deserve to lose the votes of people who expected more from you, whichever community they might belong to.
    Given that you ‘would like to see power sharing’ are you sure that you are considering the right party affiliation. Have TUV not said that they wish to see government in NI but only on the basis “practiced in the rest of the UK”

  • DC

    “The identity I want for Northern Ireland is less vital than preventing it form being ruled by criminals”

    Well Northern Ireland will be a place without a political home Turgon just a region awash with scattered ideas.

    It’s not perfect at the moment and already you reacted wrongly to the Fenian expressing himself. You run straight away into the republican SF corner screaming look at the state of it; however, there are nationalists out there who may well wish to see a sense of recognition at Stormont for themelves politically.

    Change will be slow but how can change happen without interaction and agreement on shaping an agreed future for Northern Ireland, that will most likely require devolution being in place.

    Direct rule was expensive at a local level and at an intellectual level where politics and decision making was taken out of the hands of local people. And that has contributed to a sense of retardation and punitive disablement of well able and competent people, especially those waiting in the ranks.

    You do have valid points but they should not bar progress, politics is key now and if you have any political ideas about how to strengthen Northern Ireland in the Assembly let’s hear them. Otherwise begrudgery and obstruction is a sign that you have been reduced to protest politics rather than becoming embroiled in more substantive positions now available further to the Belfast agreement.

    I get the sense you are scared of realpolitik because all you have to offer is grievance and no real vision for Northern Ireland.

    Perhaps you are scared of failing to land appropriate revenge on those you dislike, which if it ever were to land, could disproportionately disadvantage those who are keen to see the benefits and challenges of new political opportunities. Without any institutional changes because we must move away on agreed ground first of all.

  • Turgon

    The hind tit,
    Thank you for that; I was unfair to you.

    Your comments about the TUV may be true. However, I do think if you read what Jim Allister actually say he talks about voluntary coalitions. I think that is the way forward, probably along with some form of weighted majority at times to avoid all the unionists voting en masse so reproducing the undoubted disasterous problems of the past.

    A true problem is that the TUV may indeed attract flat earth bigots like zombies to the living with equally fatal results. However, it is a work in progress. The people I have had dealings with are rather tediously normal and sensible and its assorted supporters here are singularly lacking in flat earth bigoted tendencies.

    A huge problem is without sounding too paranoid that the DUP are very keen to paint the TUV as flat earth bigots for obvious reasons, same with the UUP. For not dissimilar reasons SF would like to do the same. Even the media and the NIO who are in fairness largely in favour of the current dispensation all have an interest in making us out to be nutters. I do not think is is a conspiracy per se but if everyone has relatively similar reasons for denouncing a group it can have a similar effect.

  • Turgon

    DC,

    If you are a psychoanalysist then you should know better than to try to analyse people whom you have not met. Otherwise stop trying glossy magazine level of analysis.

    Alternatively try apologising for saying I wanted to return to violence and try to answer actual points.

    If you can do none of these things I am afraid there is little point in debating with you other than to find vague bemusment at how you know so much about my world view. If I tell you I am 36, 5’7″ and weigh 9st 10lbs will that help the analysis further?

    To answer what passes for points from yourself:
    Direct rule was expensive: Not as expensive as the farce on the hill. Decision taking was taken out of the hands of local people: Yes and now what decisions of any great significance and competence have been made. Decisions cannot be made due to parochialism, mutual vetoes and what at times looks like corruption.

    “Retardation and punative disablement” more pseudo psycho analysis.

  • George

    JoeCanuck,
    That’s a huge flashing amber if not outright red light.

    This is going to have a huge effect on Northern Ireland going forward and what amazes me is that the DUP seem to think that they can happily procrastinate on when policing is devolved as if it will have no effect on Northern Ireland.

    They only see it as an opportunity to show that they somehow have Sinn Féin on a tight leash and think the longer they delay it the better it is for unionism.

    Meanwhile, foreign investors will see it is the clearest marker needed that Northern Ireland is not a stable market to do business in and that it’s better to hold back investment for another few years.

    At the same time, the Labour Party are looking (despite what Brown says) to remove the Barnett Formula sooner rather than later and with it a large chunk of the NI subvention.

    On top of that, we have a situation where Britain’s public debt is balooning not least because of the 100 billion from Northern Rock that is going on the books and the 700 billion hole in pensions that is lurking off them.

    There is trouble ahead.

  • DC

    What is it that you are scared of Turgon, terrorists can’t kill through pen pushing up at Stormont. What is the nature of the dislike that you have? I get the impression it’s not political at all but perhaps a personal one.

  • Turgon

    They cannot kill through pen pushing. They can however, organise killing, help it, cover it up, support it. Furthermore they can go back to it when their demands are not met. They can also undermine democracy with the knowledge that they can and will do all that.

    “What is the nature of the dislike that you have? I get the impression it’s not political at all but perhaps a personal one. ”

    More psychoanalysis, is the D in DC for Doctor I wonder?

    Well Dr. DC you have a point I do indeed dislike people killing other people. I believe this particular psychological abnormality (maybe irrational fear) of killers is quite common.

  • Billy

    “PeaceandJustice”

    For once, I agree with something you say. I wasn’t in agreement with this commemoration – it was obviously going to antagonise Unionists and create bad publicity for the North while trying to attract inward investment.

    However, later this year, a number of OO lodges will parade as they do every year with banners/bands commemorating “loyalist” terrorists. The OO ‘leadership’ will take NO action and, along with most Unionist politicians, will refuse to condemn it. Many Unionist posters will come on here and attack the parades commission and Catholic residents but REFUSE to condemn the OO lodges celebrating “loyalist” terrorists.

    This, yet again, will generate a lot of bad publicity for the North (and the OO) around the world and put people off investing here.

    I wonder if you’ll apply the same standards to the OO for commemorating “loyalist” terrorists and presenting a terrible image of the North to potential investors as you do to Sinn Fein for commemorating IRA members.

    Somehow, I think any regular reader here will already know the answer.

  • aticuss

    I don’t think too many investors are going to be impressed by a place where the politicians are so negligent that they mistakenly ban filming of Assembly debates by their own contractors. You couldn’t make it up!

  • beware the butterfly net

    Turgon your right it is a silly name. But a word to the wise turgie boy if you hear a swishing noise and look over your shoulder to see an electric powered van rushing towards you with a man dressed all in white with a big butterfly net leaning out the door, he is there to scoop you just remember be nice to nurse ratchet.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    I see Dodds has been dispatched to America to try and drum up support for the US investment conference/Paisley’s leaving do.

    Doesn’t bode particularly well. And I’d say he’s nearly 10 years too late.

  • willowfield

    At the same time, the Labour Party are looking (despite what Brown says) to remove the Barnett Formula sooner rather than later and with it a large chunk of the NI subvention.

    Is the end of the Barnett formula not potentially a good thing for NI (since Barnett is not based on need in NI)?