The DUP, their nemesis and Dromore

During the Second World War the Germans became obsessed on two occasions with capturing Soviet cities which arguably may not have been that important. Their failure to do so changed the war. The non historians can look up the two links: (1) and (2). The historians can point out how poor my analogy is.

There is a small town in Northwest Co. Down. The largest Northern Irish political party appear to have become obsessed with winning a council seat there and in the process may do themselves significant harm. Not as much as the Germans in the Second World War but in the DUP’s case the risk seems much more unnecessary.
When Jim Allister left the DUP he was dismissed as a flat earther and a man of no political importance; when he formed the TUV they were dismissed as a group of flat earthers and of no political significance. We now, however, have the spectacle of the DUP, fighting tooth and nail to defeat this supposedly trivial, irrelevant bunch of “flat earthers” for the Dromore council by election, even being willing to send two MPs into the fray at the very start.

Whilst no election should itself be seen as trivial; had the DUP not made a great fuss over this council seat they might very well still have won it. Had they won it they could have sailed on and at the same time pointed out that the TUV were irrelevant. Had the TUV won they (the DUP) could (quite rightly) have pointed out that it was a single council by election; had anyone else won they could again have dismissed its relevance.

Now, however, if the TUV get any percentage showing at all the fact that the DUP have highlighted this election will make people scurry off and work out how many seats that would equal at the main council elections or at Stormont. Provided the TUV vote is better than Bob McCartney’s percentage in the area at the last Stormont elections it will be seen as progress for those unionists opposed to the agreement. If the DUP loose to the UUP (or conceivably Alliance) it will be seen as the DUP making a big push yet failing. If, however, by some chance the TUV win then this election (realistically irrelevant in total Northern Ireland political terms) will be seen as a major set back for the DUP.

Peter Robinson has always been seen as politically very astute and cunning; possibly not the greatest intellectual or thinker but the mastermind behind the practical destruction of the UUP in 2005. How then has Robinson, a genuinely good political tactician allowed this to occur (or to allow his minions and spin doctors to allow this to occur)?

One thing which might be suggested is that this obsession is because Robinson knows that he personally has helped create the TUV. It is widely accepted that it was none other than Mr. Robinson who went and persuaded a barrister who had once been a DUP politician to come back to the political fray. Hence, it is Robinson who has created his own nemesis by bringing Jim Allister back from the political wilderness.

We all know that Dr. Paisley cannot remain leader of the DUP forever. Robinson has been his most successful deputy and is still the obvious heir apparent. However, in reactivating Allister; Robinson has shown an error in political skill and cunning which is most unlike him. This will not have been lost on the DUP members who will elect Paisley’s replacement. As such, not only do the DUP wish to destroy the TUV before they can get going but Robinson needs to utterly eliminate the threat to, not only his own party, but also his own leadership ambitions. Hence, Robinson must ensure a total defeat of the TUV candidate. That helps explain the apparent overkill on one council by election. That decision may turn out to have been his next political misjudgement.

  • The TUV have selected a local solicitor (from Drew Nelson’s practice?) as its candidate, who, I suspect, will acquit himself fairly well as a candidate. I can see why the DUP is taking a mere council by-election quite seriously. Dromore is a very traditionally unionist kind of place, so to speak, once strongly UUP, now strongly DUP. There will probably be a low turn-out which will hurt the DUP as the largest party. I suspect that all DUP critics will turn out, though. If the TUV can’t put up a reasonable performance here, then it’s not going to do very well anywhere else. No wonder the DUP is pulling out all the stops.

  • Curious

    Has a date been set yet for the showdown?

  • Éireannach Saolta

    Far right Prodiaban Unionism finally gets its political voice again. Me thinks the DUPs move from the right to the centre ground so quickly will be its ultimate downfall. Especially with the UUPs reorganisation. The UUP has risen above the DUP’s petty attempts at point scoring in the assembly controversy Paisley’s health aint the best these days either and junior certainly isnt going to be the one to take over his fathers party

  • nineteensixtyseven

    Curious,

    The by-election is to be held on Wednesday 13th February. Plenty of time to buy popcorn and a seat with an edge.

  • Mark McGregor

    Is the TUV guy local? His address looks like LCC to me.

    http://www.eoni.org.uk/dromore_candidates_nominated-3.pdf

  • joeCanuck

    Is Friday the 13th really on a Wednesday next month?

  • Michael Shilliday

    Apparently he does work for Drew (I think I remember him being featured in the Telegraph’s jobfinder a few months ago).

    I reckon Dromore is moresouth west than northwest…..

  • In this latter day Break of Dromore will the Jacobites beat the Paisleyites?

    Iain og as smacht? Séamus á Chaca (Mac) Alasdair?

  • Paul

    I am a unionist with two small children. What sort of future would Jim Allister and his followers proide for them, apart from the removal of academic selection and the introduction of Irish language lessons?

  • Dewi

    Still wish Fianna Fáil would stand.

  • “I am a unionist with two small children.”

    Paul, you’ll need to produce more than that to protect the Union!!

    PS If you’re looking for some tickets for Páirc Esler perhaps you should contact your local DUP office 😉

  • darth rumsfeld

    “What sort of future would Jim Allister and his followers proide for them, apart from the removal of academic selection and the introduction of Irish language lessons?”

    ..er.. one in which there was the retention of academic selection and the failure to introduce Irish language lessons. Unless you feel adult classes in politics or the proper use of sarcasm ought to be introduced- in which case you would be a beneficiary.

    Well written piece again Turgon, and happy blogging

  • Stonewall

    Congratulations to the TUV in nominating the only capable candidate in the Dromore election!

    Sure beats the DUP’s nomination of a man who went against his own party line in calling for the closure of Dromara Police station!

    Its about time people put their heads above the parrapit and let the DUP, et al, know that allowing terrorists into government is unacceptable in any democratic society!

    Down with Paisley!

  • Keegans Afro

    David Brew…

    ‘..er.. one in which there was the retention of academic selection and the failure to introduce Irish language lessons. Unless you feel adult classes in politics or the proper use of sarcasm ought to be introduced- in which case you would be a beneficiary. ‘

    Explain to me again how Aliister would achive this through his role as an MEP?

  • interested

    Turgon
    I’m not sure exactly where the evidence is about this being built up as some battle of monumental proportions. The only evidence I can see is that the Newsletter decided to put it on their front page – but then that maybe says more about the Newsletter.

    The TUV and their happy, nutty band of supporters are clearly building it up – and by-elections do tend to get a greater focus than they deserve simply because they become a point of interest when nothing else electorally is happening. People read a great amount into it and possibly and DUP hype (if there is any) is merely a response to the TUV claiming that if they get some votes here its a signal that the DUP is crumbling and that Allister is charging through on the white horse so ably freed up by the departure of the last Knight in shining armour who was going to save Ulster, Sir Bob of Cultra.

    We’ve seen the salivation here by the likes of The Watchman who see this by-election as some sort of crusade against Paisley and the DUP. The fact you see an analagy with WW2 may say enough in itself…..

    Darth
    What exactly is there in the water around Limavady these days?

    . one in which there was the retention of academic selection and the failure to introduce Irish language lessons.”

    Academic selection was protected by the DUP. Just because Ruane believes she has a cunning plan to get round it doesn’t mean she will. She has to get cross-community support in the Executive (a DUP demand) which wont be forthcoming.

    Perhaps you could tell us in the Direct Rule situation that your friends in the TUV would bring about, how Jim and his cronies would protect academic selection. Would they threaten Gordon Brown with Jim’s lawerly ability? Your point has to be one of the worst i’ve seen on this site….

    The last point was one of the worst of course until the “Irish language lessons”. You what? Has Chairman Jim really scared you all into believing that children will be frogmarched into compulsory Irish? The only proposal on the table (for a time) was some nonsense about an Irish Language Act. In case you didn’t notice the DUP Minister torpedoed that one….. and should it come back again it wouldn’t get past the aforementioned cross-community vote in the Executive.

    Again, how would the TUVvies have stopped the Irish Language Act? If the nasty Shinners did come back to the Government in the Direct Rule future you would bring about, and demand these mythical compulsory Irish lessons, then how would you stop them then?

    Perhaps this by-election, huge battle or not, will give the chance to dig a little deeper into the policies of this new movment/party/band of nutters….

    Perhaps it will also allow some more questioning of the great and glorious chairman as to what his views are on not just some of the people associated with the TUVvies but on how some of the views he expressed whilst a member of the DUP correlate with his new found party/movement colleagues and even the statements he himself has been making recently.

    Obviously Darth you would agree with Chairman Jim’s conversion to socialism yesterday with all his talk of “the people’s visitors centre” at the Causeway and his absolute hatred of private enterprise.

  • Turgon

    interested,

    Thank you as ever for your contribution to debate. The Second World War thing is to get people reading; I believe it is called a “hook” or some such.

    You have not explained why, if the TUV are as irrelevant as your friends were so recently saying; the DUP are expending so much effort on defeating them in this by election.

    Also no comment on my point about Robinson or am I getting too close to the mark? Oh yes of course I am just an irrelevant, flat earth, fundamentalist bigot; I forgot. I guess Darth is as well. Funny how you and various DUPers spend so much time attacking him and trying to work out who he is.

    Darth,
    Thank you, at the risk of mutual appreciation; praise from some one who writes as well as yourself is praise indeed.
    Regards,

  • nineteensixtyseven

    “What exactly is there in the water around Limavady these days?”

    I dunno but as I’ve posted before it is pretty much undrinkable!

    Who else has actually joined TUV? I know that in Limavady 2 of the councillors have given it their support (Boyd Douglas and Leslie Cubbitt) but Cubitt will never get back in again without the DUP behind him as his vote in March clearly demonstrated.

  • interested

    Turgon,
    I’m not sure why you believe I’d label you as “flat earth, fundamentalist bigot”. I don’t believe there is any evidence suggest that. “Paranoid” on the other hand might be more appropriate given the tone of your post.

    The TUVvies are irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. However, given that Chairman Jim has chosen Dromore to be the Tuvvies launch to greatness therefore a degree of attention would obviously be given. I don’t actually believe its the centre of the DUP’s universe at the minute – important as the Tuvvies no doubt feel they are and obviously wish that they would constitute such a threath. The DUP, given press coverage in the last couple of days has other fish to fry – Ian Jnr’s constant love of headlines, running a Government and getting a budget agreed are probably a little more important than a Dromore by-election. On the other hand it would be stupid to ignore a by-election which some sections of the media have already put a degree of importance on.

    Getting back to your reluctance to be ‘attacked’. You’re more than welcome to make your points, as is Darth – however, most of my post was related to pointing out the utter stupidity of Darth’s points – he actually done a better job of pointing out the benefits of DUP strategy than any by-election campaign could ever do.

    Oh, and by the way Turgon – I believe you’re a paid-up (if they do charge!) member of the TUV. Forgive me if I’ve got my facts wrong, but I believed that there was some debate over the movement/party issue amongst the membership and not everyone believed that fighting elections was the way to go. Who exactly took the decision that TUV would contest elections then?

    Also, it would appear that the name, logo and leader etc of TUV was registered with the Electoral Commission long before it was ever announced that it would be formed. Indeed it was all done long before some of Jim’s ‘consultation’ meetings even happened. Did he take you all for a ride?

  • poor nevin

    PS If you’re looking for some tickets for Páirc Esler perhaps you should contact your local DUP office 😉 Why do you hate catholics and the GAA Nevin.

  • Delta Omega

    Interested

    If Jim is taking us for a ride at least it is a ride in the right direction. I remember vividly sitting in a meeting of DUP members in Newtownstewart before the last election when the party officers (all of whom were there I believe except for Jeffrey) stated that they wouldn’t enter government with SF until: the army council was disbanded; there was a mechanism for removing SF if they defaulted; academic selection was secured; water rates were removed; a peace dividend was secured; and SF supported the police. Thewy only managed to get one of these so in my opinion they lied thropugh their teeth on the rest. If they want to know why some of us with a backbone have left the DUPed and are supprting TUV they need look no further than their own behaviour.

  • Delta Omega

    By the wat Turgon, another excellent post.

  • Turgon

    interested,
    I am frightfully sorry but I am not yet a member. I sent a donation and have applied (very recently) to join but since I have not yet attended any meetings and the sum total of my contact with the TUV has been a few emails to Sammy Morrison and two very brief telephone conversations with him I cannot help there.

    Sorry if I sounded a bit paranoid. After the attacks on the fundamentalism post I made I have been a little over sensitive. Any how on with battle (oh yes and actually I believe the earth is a flat dish shape; do all fundamentalists not believe that? if you do not then I fear there is no hope for you!).

    Till next battle ,
    Regards,

  • Delta Omega

    Turgon

    On your point about Jim Allister being brought back into the fold by Peter, you are entirely correct. Indeed the DUP rules in force at the time stated that you had to be a party member for a period of at least 6 months to be eligible to stand for election. Jim’s membership was renewed only a few days before he was nominated as the MEP candidate, and the rule was set aside by none other than Peter. Willy McCrea was most upset that they brought in a more politically in-favour candidate over him. It was stated at the time that “the decision would jump up and bite them on the ass”. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “he actually done a better job of pointing out the benefits of DUP strategy than any by-election campaign could ever do.”

    No really, tell us again how micro-managing joint authority with a veto on any policies being granted to the Shinners advsnces the interests of Unionists not fortunate enough to be on the payroll or in private enterprise in North Antrim.

    What exactly has the DUP acheived in the past 12 months by way of implementing their policies? Are water charges abandoned? Are grammar schools saved? Are the killers of our friends and families any closer to having their collars felt? Funny how all the people directly affected by these events seem to have missed the DUP’s great triumphs on them. Punt’s budget is as much a guarantee of the Union as Durkan’s was a precursor to its demise. There’s only so much that can be acheived by turning the financial tap on and off for various departments.

    Perhaps the microphone was wonky at the great rally outside the City Hall in November 1985, and the Great Crocodile really said “Never, never, never.. or not until we get a spa in Bushmills anyway”

  • Turgon

    Delta Omega,
    Posts crossed, thank you for your kind words.

  • Interested,

    Don’t slag off people, many of whom were active in the DUP and who left because THEY stuck to their word and didn’t back Papa Doc’s civil partnership with the IRA Godfather. I also guess plenty of unionists have been revolted by the Chuckle Brother routine. Are you?

    It’s still 4 weeks before a by-election for a virtually powerless NI council. If the DUP has nothing to worry about, why have 2 MPs been spotted in Dromore already?

  • darth rumsfeld

    I should really have responded to interested’s post last time, so in the interests of debate I must point out it was Paul @ post 8 who claimed his kids were saved from Irish classes- presumably a line fed to him at a DUP meeting in the “great triumphs of the DUP in 2007” part of the evening-just before the “Karaoke with Willie McCrea” part.

    I have to say I have no idea what the water in Limavady is like, not being from there, but I’m told they rarely drink the stuff, and there’s good poteen to be found in Dungiven.

    And JHA may be a pinko ( too many lawyers are secret liberals) but I’d rather have a socialist Unionist than a Vichy capitalist, especially since the free market seems to have ben the subject of some attempt at statist intervention, as recent revelations have appeared to confirm.

    We’re back to the same old Trimble argument- namely that Unionists can do better in an unpalatable administration. If that’s so, let’s see the evidence. And the shocking fact is that there’s so little of it. The DUP ministers have simply added local accents to front the departments dealing with day to day matters- a sort of quango endorsed by mandate. There’s no vision-or if there is, it was quietly dropped as part of the price for the Skoda Superbs and blue boxes. And just because you can say the Shinners are in the same boat doesn’t mean they’ve been neutered. On all the big constitutional issues, Trimble bagged whatever limited concessions were on offer in 1998-hardly something to crow about.

  • interested

    Turgon,
    Fair enough – I don’t have any problem at all with fundamentalists…. bit of a compliment in some ways really! I believe the earth is of course made of cheese but at least its young cheese.. queue the attacks from some on here!

    Darth,
    Its been hammered around on here time and time again – a veto is of more use to unionism because it so happens that its more often nationalism pushing for changes which unionism wants to block.

    Are water charges abandoned?
    I understood that at one time you were at least interested in the DUP – if not involved. You might have wanted to inform yourself too. AFIK the DUP have always been clear that people in Northern Ireland pay for their water, they always have through the rates. Its about not having to pay twice and about not having unfair separate charges. Given that the Consumer Council and others have welcomed the moves so far it would seem that progress has been made.

    The DUP never stood on an absolute “no paying for water” ticket so that would be for other parties to defend. Northern Ireland people always have paid, and it would be a fool who believed that water could be provided for free.

    Are grammar schools saved?”
    Err yes actually. I know you always prefer to believe something when a republican says it but not a unionist, but just because Ruane announces that she wants to do something doesn’t actually mean that she can do it – now there’s a shocker!

    I’m happy to let this one run through and see just how successful the Education Minister is in getting her plans through the Executive. Surely as a solicitor you should know the importance of getting something into legislation. Academic selection is there at the minute and she isn’t able to get rid of it.

    Nice misquote of the City Hall stuff btw!…… and there were FOUR ‘nevers’. I hate it when people get that wrong… the last ‘never’ was just said more quietly than the first three.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Nice misquote of the City Hall stuff btw!…… and there were FOUR ‘nevers’. I hate it when people get that wrong… the last ‘never’ was just said more quietly than the first three.”

    Not a misquote, merely an editted one. But since I was standing twenty feet away from him in the secure zone at the time I know exactly what he said- and of course you’re right, it was a quadruple dose of what now turns out to have been bull. Hardly helps your case.

    So far as the veto being more use to Unionists is concerned, well I don’t buy that. If “the Union has been saved” (copyright Dundela Avenue a million times) and Sinn Fein has been “forced to change by the DUP” (ibid) then the veto is only relevant on bread and butter issues.

    The fact is that once again all the big decisions will be pushed down the pipe- like the devolution of justice neing put back from May to-say September, so the DUP can claim they acheived another great victory by not caving in on time. In the interim they’ll be given a fig leaf like a parade at Drumcree, or changes in orange Hall compensation claims to placate the base.

    And the much vaunted veto will have absolutely no relevance to HMG, who will provide an Irish language Act or whatever it takes if it is convinced that the Shinners aren’t bluffing about their dealbreaker issues, because the government knows Marty can’t be bought off by a few quid for Derry City, a dual carriageway through Dungiven, and other “confidence building” measures. The only change since 1998 is whether the Shinner footsoldiers are becoming comfortable in Stormont that the prospect of its demise might actually make them wander off message

  • Moe

    Every veto the DUP have, the Shinners also have. So neither party can do a thing without the other’s support. That, in time, will lead to horse-trading as it is only through that that this form of government can work.

    Does that make for good government? I’m of the opinion that it doesn’t.

  • a hayes

    Is the DUP candidate in Dromore, Jeffrey’s former bag-carrier? I believe he runs a pub in Dromara – that will please the Free P’s!

    King Arthur

  • khaki

    Yes there was a Paul Stewart who worked for Jeffrey but don’t know about the pub bit. Unlikely as he was proposed by Jeffrey and the Presbyterian minister Rev A Thompson from Kinallen. Of course maybe the Presbyterians have changed their minds on booze now that its a lot cheaper!

  • Éireannach Saolta

    Do any normal right minded people actually care about this one man band. Maybe a few protestant fundamentalists do but outside that backwards section of society most people just want an end to all this hate filled rhetoric.

    Admittedly though it’d be hilarious see him tear those DUPers to bits. Hes already succeding with the contriovery of the junior affair he is rightly stoking up.

    Looks like Robinson made two mistakes firstly bringing Jim Alister back into the political fold and secondly advising his almighty lord and shepherd ” Big Ian to do a deal with Sinn Féin while this deranged man was still in politics.

  • Stonewall

    To answer a hayes,

    Yes Paul is a publican in Dromara, and yes he is the former bag carrier of JD. AND yes he is the DUP rep who was the only Unionist in the area to actually call for the closing of his local Police station in Dromara!!!!!!!! Is this against his party’s policy??????? Im shocked!

    I get fed up by the usual Duppers harping on about anyone who is against power sharing with terrorist murderers! Obviously we are all just uneducated yokles who gather turnips for hats!

    The unshakeable reality is that it is the normal sensible unionists who realise the fundamental wrong in sharing government with the IRA!

    As for the wonderful work of our culture minister mentioned above by yet another paisley clone. Ask him about the parity of funding he promised for Ulster-Scots? Yet again another promise broken by the seemingly infalable DUP!

    Seems like the treachery unit at DUP headquarters needs to sharpen their act, or perhaps these blow ins form the UUP are reverting to type?

  • khaki

    Cant believe a minister of the Presbyterian church is openly backing a publican even though it is a rare breed of publican, a DUP one. They preach against the evils of drink then they openly back a guy who sells it. Many of the old school of Presbyterians would be grossly offended by this.
    Is the Rev. Thomson another Steven Dickinson who I think maybe now has gone the TUV route having been a big follower of the DUP.
    Wonder how members of Thomson’s congregration who are not Duppers feel about that?

  • Stonewall

    Khaki,

    I think Rev thompson is more a big follower of JD rather than the DUP,but it will be interesting to see if the whole publican aspect has an effect on the vote.

    I rather think this is an interesting election because rather than being a strong DUP area Dromore is a strong Unionist area within which the voters are very hardline. To be ellected you need to be a strong candidate who is well respected in the area,how Stewart and Black will fair remains to be seen.

    I do think a strong TUV candidate like Mr Harbinson will do very well, wether or not the seat will fall to TUV remains to be seen; but whatever the result it will be a wake up call for the DUP\IRA Vichy regime at Stormont.
    The ordinary folk are not happy!

  • Keegans Afro

    Stonewall,

    ‘I do think a strong TUV candidate like Mr Harbinson will do very well, wether or not the seat will fall to TUV remains to be seen; but whatever the result it will be a wake up call for the DUP\IRA Vichy regime at Stormont. ‘

    What makes Mr harbison such a strong candidate? Becasue he is a solicitor? so was james cooper….

    Does anyone know if the TUV candidate has had any political experience or involvement up to now?

  • omwell

    PRESBYTERIAN MINISTER BACKS PUBLICAN CANDIDATE RUNNING FOR SLEAZE PARTY.
    Howzat for a heading in the Kinallen Times. He may be a friend of JD’s but presumably he also has a brain and a congregation of diverse views.Plonker!

  • “Why do you hate catholics and the GAA Nevin.”

    How do you divine the hate? Do you take off your wellies and hope for rods to rotate? 🙂

  • Paul

    “I should really have responded to interested’s post last time, so in the interests of debate I must point out it was Paul @ post 8 who claimed his kids were saved from Irish classes- presumably a line fed to him at a DUP meeting in the “great triumphs of the DUP in 2007” part of the evening-just before the “Karaoke with Willie McCrea” part.” Darth on Jan 17, 2008 @ 02:13 PM

    Your posts are sometimes funny but not always accurate.

    In 1998 the party which you supported irreversibly changed the position of Unionism. From then on it was about neutering the influence of republican and Irish goverment influence in N.I’s internal affairs. I ask myself who is best placed to do this? It certainly isn’t Jim Allister and friends.

  • Alex. Kane

    Turgon:

    I’m not proposing to get involved in this particular debate, but just wanted to let you know that I enjoy your posts and am genuinely pleased that you are now on the Slugger team.

    Best wishes,

    Alex.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “In 1998 the party which you supported irreversibly changed the position of Unionism. From then on it was about neutering the influence of republican and Irish goverment influence in N.I’s internal affairs. I ask myself who is best placed to do this? It certainly isn’t Jim Allister and friends.”

    Quite true, until the last sentence, which is possibly true too- who can really say? But can we answer the question with confidence that it will be the DUP? Because they haven’t done anything to convince me that they aren’t enthusiastic pushovers now too.

  • brickwall

    Stonewall / Mr Mattison
    Are we really that impressed by a solicitor? Plenty of solicitors and barristers out there who haven’t given unionism too much.

    What exactly is the great leader of the TUV’s position on power-sharing then? After all, his position in the DUP was that there should be Government by now after a few months delay. Of course Jim would be in a Voluntary coalition – choosing to have entered that Government with Sinn Fein.

    What exactly is TUV policy on power sharing then? Is it no power sharing with Sinn Fein ever because that’s what some of the members believe…. Or is it when conditions have been met?

    Come on TUV….. you’re a party now.. lets hear the policies!

  • Bla

    Stonewall

    I like all the “Mr. Harbinson” stuff – almost implying you don’t know him, when you actually belong to the same Orange Lodge and I think RBP as the guy. You’re fooling nobody Andrew Stonewall….

  • jethro

    Rev. Thompson is more than a friend of the local MP. At the last Council elections apparently he and his wife had a blazing row with Tyrone Howe on their doorstep and refused UUP literature. He may not be a card carrying DUP but that is where his heart is.

  • Kevin Keegans Afro

    obviously quiet times in the freelance ulster-scots consultancy sector

  • Parlour Dweller

    Stonewall/Pussy Matt,

    Was the reason that Jim – I mean the TUV central committee – didn’t select a “nutter” (Brian Moorhead) not to appeal to a wider voting range?

    Your pushing of “oh but he’s a publican” line is hardly doing you any favours is it?

    Slightly hypocritical given that Mr. Harbinson I’m sure enjoys a drink himself….

    Could you confirm that the Ballymena sect of TUV are annoyed with the Kells sect over Mr. Harbinson’s selection?

    Surely it wasn’t the way to treat a loyal member like Brian Moorhead…

  • omwell

    If Rev. Thompson couldn’t stomach UUP policy in 2005 how does he cope with same policies in DUP wrapper in 2007?
    I hear Kinallen is expanding rapidly but who except DUP voters are going to join his church. Some of his fellow ministers will be shocked by this gaffe. Is their a free p church in that area?

  • Bla

    omwell

    Nice attempt to side-step. Why was Brian Moorehead shafted in favour of Harbinson? Moorehead at least lives in the borough unlike the Maghaberry blow-in Jim TUV Central Command has picked.

  • Parlour Dweller

    Clearly the spin doctors in the world of Ulster-Scots and the Orange are having a slow day at work!

    I am told that Mr. Moorhead wasn’t best pleased at being ousted in favour of a methodist (Shock-Horror).

    Mr Moorhead was a faithful letter writer to Jim Allister since his departure from the DUP. What now?

    Is this the start of the inevitable splinterization of TUV? Who will win out Kells or Ballymena?

  • Kevin keegans afro

    can any of the TUV posters (young Morrison for example) clear something up for me?

    I’d be interested to know, in light of TUVs declaration of support for traditional family values, if the membership is denied to those living in sin, engaging in sex before marriage etc etc. Are these issues mentioned on the application form for membership?

    I must say if it is, fair play to TUV for their moral dimension

  • brickwall

    Keegan’s afro
    Maybe TUV have nicked Gordon Brown’s “moral compass”!

  • Real Sonewall

    Dear all,

    Having been in the Czech Republic’s Capital Prague since monday I find all this very amusing!

    But having read the posts that are here i must say that i cant dissagree with the other blokes posts! He has made a great wee contribution in my absence!

    As for posters who are quick to jump and name people on this site I can only refer the same to the accusations which they made about me and a certain protest in Hillsborough, which i was not at!

    These people will know who they are, and i know who they are also! These people would do well to get their facts straight before throwing accusations around in public.

    As for my knowing Mr Harbinson, yes i certainly do, and i will certainly be out on the streets of Dromore to support him! As for him being in my Orange sorry treachery unit he’s not unless he joined at the last meeting or is transferring in Feb but i havent heard about it.

    Its also important to note that it was not my “name sake” who raised the fact that Mr Stewart, who i also know well, is a publican in Dromara. So perhaps a little less of the coffee breaks is needed for you young duppers on the hill!

    And for the imformation of you young duppers, and yes i know who you are, I am fully employed and not free-lance at the moment. But there has always been plenty of work for me to do as some people in this country actually do work for the good of their community rather than sit and chuckle in Stormont, or say even Belfast city hall, with unrepentant IRA murderers!

  • Moe

    My my haven’t the Dundela boys come quickly back on this website after a week of selecting publicans and trying to cover up yet another embarrassing IPJ move. What were they doing in the meantime? Perhaps writing to every member in the country about a small by-election in a DUP heartland begging for their support. Funny behaviour for a Party not worried by a bunch of mavericks that represent no-one.

    I don’t know Brian Moorhead so can’t comment that you think he’s a ‘nutter’ Parlour Dweller, but I wasn’t aware that he was going to stand – the only thing I heard on the matter was a challenge from some DUP Councillor. Why, however, the DUP think that the TUV should listen to them on who their candidates should be I’m not sure. There’s many DUP supporters that put their names to letters written for the Newsletter who haven’t stood for election: maybe the Party’s chief letter-writer doesn’t hold that much sway.

    And maybe, just maybe the Dundela Avenue crew are feeling a little worried now that the so-called nutters of TUV managed to find a more respectable candidate than they’d hoped. Their actions seem to portray that.

  • Bla

    Well done Andrew – how to persuade us all you had nothing to do with the earlier comments – come on within an hour or so to deny it.

    Wee hint: don’t post your email address in the adress bar in future.

  • Bla

    BTW, they have internet access in the Czech Republic these days I’m sure – they’re terribly advanced you know!

  • Bla

    Andrew

    He’s not a member of 1845?

  • Paul

    Why is any post not in support of TUV considered to be from a payee of the DUP. I certainly am not on the DUP’s payroll or even a member but cannot support the TUV position. Not least because it’s leader/chairman or whatever was in support of what the DUP did, although not at the time they did it.

    What are the policies of the TUV? Many of it’s supporters have different views and ideals, some even advocating an Independent Ulster. It appears the only thing that most TUV supporters have in common is their opposition to Paisley and party.

    How will Jim Allister ensure that my children and their children have some say over their own goverance?

  • Marcus

    Dont forget the Green Party! The Candidate Helen Corry recieved over 1000 first preference votes in the March assembly election and this was the first time the Green Party ever stood in Upper Bann. She will get a good vote I am sure! You can see her election press release here http://www.greens-in.org/article/1015

    It will be a contest between UUP and DUP for the most part.

    We have TUV, UUP, DUP and Alliance all unionist parties.
    SDLP and Sinn Fein Nationalist.
    Green Party Neutral.

    When you look at past voting in dromore it is a unionist stronghold so Sinn Fein and SDLP will have no chance.

    It will be an interesting contest between Alliance and the Green Party.

  • Bla

    Paul

    Good luck waiting for an answer to that. TUV are very good at telling us all what they wouldn’t do. Where’s the beef? What would they do? I genuinely want to hear their alternative strategy. Harping back to a golden age that never was is hardly a sustainable strategy.

  • Mark McGregor

    I see the TUV have been hit with their first scandal early on with one of their limited number of Cllrs, David Tweed being convicted for being a drunk driver:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7196903.stm

  • godfrey

    “I’d be interested to know, in light of TUVs declaration of support for traditional family values, if the membership is denied to those living in sin, engaging in sex before marriage etc etc. Are these issues mentioned on the application form for membership?

    I must say if it is, fair play to TUV for their moral dimension”

    Had this been the case I know of one leading TUV member who would have been excluded.

  • Mark McGregor

    This is pretty funny, the DUP running a full on black ops operation on Slugger over a Council seat of the like not seen since Martin Ingram retired (was stood down) or the SDLP at every single election. They must be very worried to be putting this amount of effort into smear.

  • Real Stonewall

    BLA

    Wee hint……… anyone can post here with anyones e-mail address and user name! Unlike you, when im on holiday i have far better things to do than post here!

    I had to be told on friday that i had apparently been posting all week.

    But hey folks like you never let the facts get in the way do ya?

  • interested

    Who did Davy Tweed get to defend him in court?

    Anyone know if he has contacts in the legal profession who might have done a freebie?

  • A louad a’ shiaaeight

    “And for the imformation of you young duppers, and yes i know who you are, I am fully employed and not free-lance at the moment. But there has always been plenty of work for me to do as some people in this country actually do work for the good of their community rather than sit and chuckle in Stormont,”

    Andrew,

    What do your employers think of your rather unsubtle linking of Ulster-Scots culture and politics?

  • Real Stonewall

    plz identify any link made? Im afraid your paragraph selection makes no link.

  • Bigger Picture

    O my o my such bickering between gentlemen that were once such fraternal brothers!

    At the end of the day guys outside of this site not many people have given the level of scrutiny and debate over a by-election that has gone on here. The only people that will have any say is the people of Dromore and outside of that area it hasn’t got the attention that many people on here would like to think it has.

    It’s easy to see why Turgon, Darth etc are here trying to stoke the flames and fair credit. But all I have heard is that the DUP are running scared, are they?? Apparently they have had plenty of people out canvassing including local MPs and MLA’s sounds like a good campaign. I don’t think it is running scared of the TUV by bringing out the big names of the party for a paltry by-election, most MP’s canvass for cllrs considering that local and westminster elections are at the same anyway. It is not unusual. I wouldn’t dismiss the TUV but i would be calling the DUP stupid if they sat back, did a UUP and let the TUV gain momentum, better to come down on it hard now, rather than give Jim H Allister QC another headline and potentially more voters.

  • Turgon

    Bigger Picture,

    If you are not senior in the DUP why are you not? If you are can you not reign in some of your younger and more enthusiastic members? Unlike them you are able to analyse the situation and do not feel the need to resort to sock puppetry and silliness every time the TUV are mentioned or Robinson criticised.

    I take your point on deploying of members in the campaign but I would still suggest, however, that what we are seeing is overkill which could easily become a no win for the DUP (if it has not done so already). I still have my suspicions that a lot of the need to crush the TUV now is because of Robinson’s albeit accidental role in its creation, the DUP leadership’s understanding of this and the potential proximity of a leadership election.

    Had Robinson not persuaded Allister back into the fold yes there is no doubt there would have been some resignations after St. Andrew’s but Robinson must bear much of the responsibility for ensuring that the opposition has an articulate efficient and dangerous leader who cannot in seriousness be dismissed as a flat earther. You and I know that as do those who lead the DUP whatever the sock puppeteers may think.

    Anyhow regards,

    PS I still have the cave for you when you want it.

  • A question for historical buffs. Wasn’t Dromore part of the old Iveagh Stormont constituency where the hardline Independent Unionists in the 1950s almost unseated Brian Maguinness, Brookeborough’s liberal Minister of Home Affairs? Might just be the place for an upset.

  • Bigger Picture

    Turgon

    Thank you for your kind words. It is always nice to be complimented even more so when it is from those who you may not see eye to eye with on every issue and i share the same respect for you as well. However you flatter me in terms of my age as I would presume that most of the other people on this site are actually older than me and in terms of the party wouldn’t give me a second glance! I’ve just been blessed with good genes 😉

    I take your point about Robinson and would probably agree that he needs to stamp the TUV out to hide his mistake. I’m not sure about overkill in the campaigning side, I haven’t been down bit from what i hear it has been the local branch plus MLA’s and MP’s from Upper Bann and Lagan Valley which is fair enough as any PR manager would say to put your biggest assets forward in order to sell yourself- I think that is all fair. However if Gregory Campbell or Willy Hay are seen down there then I will take that statement back!

    I’m not sure how much Robinson is to blame for the Jim scenario. There were other senior MPs who were involved in that decision. I believe that the rise in Jim’s profile in recent months has been the Paisley factor at Stormont. You and I have long debated how the DUP should go about the workings of Government. An approach that would have meant keeping the head down and delivering for the electorate while at the same time keeping the chuckling to an 8 May mishap would have shown the electorate that while the DUP is in with the Shinners they are also working hard and putting issues first. However the Paisley’s have proved me wrong on both counts. With Juniors supposed willingness to be involved in every dodgy deal in the country and Sr’s unreal attitude towards McGuiness and the OFMDFM situation they have given Jim more than enough ammunition to stir people up.

    The best example has happened over the last few days. Robinson pulls a rabbit out of the hat in the budget but instead of playing this up the DUP is forced to defend Junior on his latest misdeeds.

    In terms of Dromore the DUP will win the seat, they have 3,000 votes there, and with Jeffrey factor down there no matter what the rest of the country thinks of him, they will poll a very good result. Keith Harbinson will provide a test however as he is a very credible candidate maybe a shot across the bows of the DUP may not be a bad thing to waken certain people up??

  • Bigger Picture

    and also,

    thanks for keeping the cave door open for me as always the situation is being continually assessed!

  • Butterknife

    If true that a Dromara publican is standing as the DUP candidate what is the leader’s views?