Minister promoting “filth” shocker…

JUDGE not lest ye be judged – unless you’re a Free Presbyterian minister, in which case local rock bands are “filth”. After Arts Minister and Free P member Edwin Poots lent his support to the Oh Yeah music centre by joining Snow Patrol’s Gary Lightbody and Ash’s Tim Wheeler in Belfast last week, Rev Ivan Foster (the Jim Allister of Protestantism) issued his second condemnation of Mr Poots (this being the first). That anyone calling themselves a Christian should commend them and so influence the young to listen to such filth, is reprehensible in itself. But when that person is an office-bearer in the Free Presbyterian Church one has to wonder what view of his behaviour his minister and session hold and whether they will stand up for the Word of God and what it has to say on the issue, blasted Rev Foster, after advising us to check out the Wikipedia entries on the bands to see “the immoral titles, themes and lyrics employed by these ‘musicians’.” Yes folks, ‘Open Your Eyes’, for verily, when evil musicians urge you to ‘Free All Angels’ it doth herald the ‘Twilight of the Innocents’.

  • Sam Hanna

    Ah….. we have the non-religious aethists of Slugger commenting again on those of us who actually have read the Bible.

    The verse about judging if you actually read the context is talking about hypocritical judging. The Bible states that we are to “judge righteous judgment.”

    I could expose your straw man by simply replying “are you judging Ivan Foster by your remarks?”

    A little knowledge Gonzo……..

    Ivan Foster’s article is accurate and Biblical – you may not like it as you are part of the world system (and that is your prerogative)but don’t push us all to like your perversions and anti-Christian actvities. You are sounding a tad intolerant for someone who is against intolerance!!

  • Jack Black

    Minister for filth…….I like it.

  • ulster

    Bloody awful music anyway, give us a bit of eric clapton.

  • Fair play to Edwin Poots. I’ve (surprisingly) warmed to him lately. I was at the gig last Saturday night (although I am an Ash fan rather than a Snow Patrol follower).

    Ash had an earlier single called “Jesus Says” which aptly sums up the likes of Ivan Foster….

  • Gum

    Gosh, if he has a problem with the crap that Ash and Snow Patrol put out… I dont know WHAT he made of Led Zep!

  • gram

    This article dovetails nicely with the Ian Og remarks on homosexuality.

    The FP’s need to decide whether their “faith” prohibits them from public office where they have the responsibility to represent all sections of the community, even those who actions repulse them like Tim Wheeler and Gary Lightbody.

  • Pounder

    Flith? Wishy washy maybe but filth, not in a million. So Sam what part of the bible said that middle of the road pop rock is to be condemmed. Care to point out any offensive lyrics by either band? BTW Sam did you manage to keep a straight face when you typed the phrase “non-religious athiest” is that like a meat free veggie burger or alcohol free pint of milk?

  • jpeters

    what would jesus say?

    think he would have bigger fish to fry than snow patrol

    by the by does anyone know the title to that duet on the most recent album?

  • Charlie

    For this member of the congregation, the moral rot set in circa 1965 when the Reverend William (Bill) McCrea turned electric at the Ballymena Folk Festival and then released his ‘seminal’ album ‘Bringin’ it all back home ‘til ye’ featuring ‘Subterranean Homesick Orangemen’…when he introduced thon fellas The Bachelors to the wacky backy the whole country went to hell in a handcart…

  • Joe

    Never mind Led Zep, if he thinks Snow Patrol are filth, how does he get through the day without dying from apoplexy? And can someone please send him the collected works of Throbbing Gristle on CD?

  • Jpeters,

    If you mean the most recent Snow Patrol album (Eyes Open), then the duet was called “Set fire to the Third Bar”. It was recorded with Martha Wainwright, who is a Canadian pop-folk vocalist.

  • Token Dissent

    If only these bands were offering some good evil rock ‘n’ roll hedonism! But putting musical differences to one side the Oh Yeah Project is a superb, and much needed, project. They deserve every success.

    Fair play to Rev. Foster however for adding general hilarity to public debate.

  • Presbyterian

    The comments by Ivan Foster are really vitriolic and uneccesarily so. What about Christian love and compassion?

  • paisley the apostate

    When will these people get real.

  • I’m sorry to play the man, but this person is clearly an idiot. I had the pleasure of being invited to the Oh Yeah housewarming last week- I chatted to yer man from Snow Patrol, heard some excellent examples of local musical talent (including an acoustic set by Tim Wheeler) and found out about the excellent work this project is doing to encourage young people with musical talent to make the most of their gift without having to leave to go to Dublin, London or further afield.

    Projects like this help keep young people away from drinking on street corners and encourage them to get involved in worthwhile activity. Any right-minded person will clearly offer their full support to this.

    People like Foster really have nothing whatsoever to contribute to society- the best way to deal with them is simply to ignore them.

  • Rev. Creane the moon beame.

    ignore them?

    What and miss a good laugh?

  • Martin

    Actually, if you play Snow Patrol’s latest song backwards….

  • jpeters

    mac

    cheers thats been driving me mad all day

  • Cormac

    It would be interesting to see a list of the bands that Ivan Foster or Sam Hanna deem acceptable.

    Go on, humour us – it’s Friday!

  • Rev.Creane the moon beame.

    Cliff Richard? No touching during the dancing. And bring her back home the way you found her!

  • Presbyterian

    “It would be interesting to see a list of the bands that Ivan Foster or Sam Hanna deem acceptable.”

    Ballygobackward First Flute?

  • Rev Creane the moon beame

    This is all to gain attention on the vote tonite.
    I hadn’t intended to comment on the meeting of the Free Presbyterian presbytery this incoming Friday as I believed my views were well enough known. That was before I read an article in yesterday’s Belfast Telegraph headed “Paisley to stay as head of church”.

    “A spokesman” stated that the issue was “entirely a matter for the presbytery of the Free Presbyterian Church” and “senior church sources” told the Telegraph that it was “extremely likely” that he would be re-elected adding (or perhaps it was another source – the article isn’t clear) “We are not expecting anything untoward”.

    A number of observations before I move on the substantive issue of whether or not Paisley should be re-elected:

    Why was no one named in this article? Were they afraid of something? From reading it I don’t even know if the reporter spoke to two Free Presbyterians or two dozen Free Presbyterians.

    Does the spokesman/senior source/sources know the meaning of the word “untoward”? Does he/they believe that a church should always seek to avoid “difficult” (OED definition of untoward) issues by not facing up to them?

    If it is “entirely a matter for the presbytery” why are anonymous sources making statements to the Telegraph in a blatant attempt to bolster Paisley’s chances of re-election and dismiss any opposition? If they are prepared to discuss it with the press while skulking in the shadows why do they find fault with those who discuss this issue publicly while not hiding away?

    Allow me to briefly set out why I believe Ian Paisley should not be re-elected. I am not going to go into anything deep or quote the Westminster Confession. I am just going to state simple facts.

    Paisley along with all other Free Presbyterian ministers signed a statement which said it was “unscriptural, unethical and immoral” to share power with “those who have supported and advocated violence”.

    Note the tense. The position of the Free Presbyterian Church was and is that the past deeds of Sinn Fein/IRA render them unfit for governmental office.

    If this position changes common courtesy demands that the Free Presbyterian Church apologise to those parties which supported the 1998 Belfast Agreement. It would also be nice if they could explain to their own members (from Scripture) why the position changed.

    Secondly, Dr Paisley was the defendant in a court case paid for by the Free Presbyterian Church.

    This is (apart from anything else) a clear conflict of interest.

    It is also clear to any fair and impartial observer that Ian Paisley had to break his word in order to enter government with the IRA’s political apologists. If anyone can furnish me will two contradictory definitions of the word “never” (as in “I will never sit down with Gerry Adams”) I would be very interested to hear them.

    Dishonesty is not an admirable quality in the moderator of an evangelical church.

    As time has progressed it has become evident that as long as Ian Paisley and other Free Presbyterians serve in the government of Northern Ireland as presently constituted the ability of that church to comment on the morality of government policy is compromised.

    At the resent gay pride parade in Belfast we had the ludicrous situation of Free Presbyterians protesting against an event which was funded by Edwin Poots – a man who holds office in the Free Presbyterian Church.

    Readers are also reminded that Ian Paisley has not claimed any Scriptural justification for his actions.

    Posted by Sammy at 13:33

  • Presbyterian

    Re. above post as my mother used to say some people are so straight they’re twisted!

  • what

    I wouldn’t worry about Foster – if you’re considered to be a hard-line nutter, and that’s just by your colleagues in the Free P church then it says something about you.

    He’s just used now by anti-DUP nutters to advance what they term an ‘argument’.

  • Sam Hanna

    I don’t approve of any music that has sensual beats and lyrics that incite sensual thoughts – I would have though that was obvious as I only accept the Bible as the infallible source to guide my life.

    I know that will provide shrieks of pejorative bile coming my way from the illiberal elite here but so be it.

    Edwin Poots was elected as a Christian – he certainly was up front about it so I expect him to represent what that involves. What law states that a politican must be inclusive?

  • jone

    What’s a sensual beat? I prefer Amens and Apaches personally.

  • Ah, all very droll, but too many examples of Lazyitis here methinks

    The point is this….Poots is Minister of “Culture”. Poots is also a Free Presbyterian elder or whatever the Free P’s equivalent may be. “Culture” and the Free Ps…that’s one Loose Fit.

    Now I’m no Judge Fudge but he’s presiding over stuff that run contrary to his beliefs(his not mine, I stress, I’m one of the 24 Hour Party People).
    OK, Ivan’s may be a bit of a Mad Cyril and is too fond of the oulHallelujahs but he’s bang on when he pulls up a fellow Free P for stepping on things Free Ps shouldn’t Step On.

    At the very least, the man’s a hypocrite and he’s twisting my melons man.

    (I reckon only Kensei and Cromwell on this board will get this post; go on hipsters, prove me wrong)

  • I have to say, Gonzo, looking at the opening words of your piece, that you should not quote from the Bible unless you understand what the words mean. It certainly does not require that Christians sit on the fence in regard to moral issues, as you seem to suggest. It is a warning against presumptuous judgment and I do not believe that Ivan Foster has done this. Instead he is contending for the faith as he sees it.

    Many of you may not agree with Foster (I’m not sure that I do so entirely) but then his world view is dramatically different from the average Sluggerite. The crux of Foster’s attack is that Pootsie is not being faithful to the obligations of godly behaviour that a deacon of his church is supposed to uphold. Many Christians think the entertainment world is full of immoral behaviour and that any Christian who willingly remains in it will slip into sinful behaviour. On this viewpoint, Pootsie, through his ministerial position, is encourging engagement by others in this area and that this is incompatible with the obligations he swore to uphold as a Free P deacon.

    This is certainly a difficult area for Free Ps.

  • iluvni

    This reminds me of the time Rev McIlveen tried to prevent me from entering Avoneil Leisure Centre to watch Ozzy.
    Satan was there that night apparently.

  • the Rev.

    Sam any protesters outside the vote tonite? Running any books?

  • esmereldavillalobos

    oneill

    I’m more of a Joy Division/New Order type than the Happy Mondays but I do love the remix of Loose Fit that was on one of the Chillout albums.

    I guess that liking Depeche Mode will guarantee I am damned for all eternity in a place hotter than most of you then…

    Filth? Snow Patrol? Really?

  • Token Dissent

    o’neill – I was listening to ‘Bummed’ this very day. What a great, weird album. I’d much prefer Shaun as Minister for Culture…or Professor of Poetry for Ireland.

  • Liam

    Sam Hanna, maybe you should emigrate to somewhere like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, they have a similiar outlook on life and music to yourself. 🙂

  • Bretagne

    Sam – one comment

    “Edwin Poots was elected as a Christian”
    He was elected as a candidate of the DUP.
    He also signed a post dated resignation and could be replaced by the DUP, by anyone else the DUP chooses.

    If people want to be elected as Christians, or Jews, I would prefer they stand as such, and make that 100% clear that their Christian (or Jewish) oaths /belief are persoannly more important that their oaths as politicians. Mixing the religious and secular either diminishes the religious, or impacts the secular – as the Big Man is finding…

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Watchman

    Yes, you and Sam have a point about my interpretation of the quote from Matthew. On the other hand, the Bible can (and is!) interpreted by every religious sect to suit their own purposes, so I reckon it’s fair enough.

  • esmereldavillalobos

    I guess that liking Depeche Mode will guarantee I am damned for all eternity in a place hotter than most of you then

    Unless you’ve got True Faith and are Touched by the Hand of God, then I’m afraid yes is the answer;)

    Token Dissent
    I’d much prefer Shaun as Minister for Culture…or Professor of Poetry for Ireland

    “Bummed” is a completely mad but still a classic.
    Shaun was once compared to this generation’s WB Yeats…but there again, it was Tony Wilson making the comparison!

    But, kind of loosely connected with the thread, the point is that Shaun, unlike Pootsy, wouldn’t be compromising his beliefs if he ever took over the DCAL post.

  • Rev

    Gonzo!!

    Quit spaken in tongues!!

  • Belfast Gonzo

    It’s OK. I got my own Personal Jesus.

  • Sam Hanna

    “Yes, you and Sam have a point about my interpretation of the quote from Matthew. On the other hand, the Bible can (and is!) interpreted by every religious sect to suit their own purposes, so I reckon it’s fair enough.”

    And you think the Rev Foster is mad…..just because every whacko group from the Catholic Church Cult to the Jehovah Witnesses overt the plain teaching of the Bible to their own selfish ends does not mean we all have to give up on it. Strange that so many people are hooked on a book that is “riddled with inconsistencies.”

    You are right that you have your own Jesus – he is not the One of the Bible!

  • You may say I am cynical, but I say man is flawed
    He has a vague memory of life before some fall
    Behaving like a reptile, but talks of walking tall
    If god is in his image, the almighty must be small

    God only knows

    Swaggart has been caught with his trousers round his knees
    After damning me and you to hell for eternity
    Sex and power and money is the prayer of these priests
    They bribe their way past heaven’s gates and steal a set of keys

    God only knows

    My guru has been sleeping with adepts and with sheep
    While I was fucking celibate, self-righteous in belief
    Yesterday he was god, now he is a creep
    We fell upon each other starving for relief

    God only knows

    I damn you all to hell
    I speak in the name of god
    I know him intimately
    I speak in the name of the white haired old man in the clouds
    Always a man
    Dispensing lightening justice from his fingertips
    As self-righteous and bigoted as those who created him
    A cruel desert god with absolutely no sense of humor
    How do you feel old man?
    How do you feel?
    Being spoken for by these self-righteous fanatics
    Is heaven full, oh lord, of these babbling preachers and
    God-fearing bigots
    Well I know where I’d rather be
    Away from this cacophony

    God only knows
    God only knows
    God only knows

    James “God Only Knows” – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bChqvMIGsqg

  • McGrath

    “And you think the Rev Foster is mad…..just because every whacko group from the Catholic Church Cult to the Jehovah Witnesses overt the plain teaching of the Bible to their own selfish ends does not mean we all have to give up on it. Strange that so many people are hooked on a book that is “riddled with inconsistencies.”

    Ah, so the Catholic Church is a Cult. Are all other groups that don’t subscribe to you narrow views cults?

    I suspect you have been doing too much “sensual beating” Sam.

  • pauljames

    The problem is with the guns gone the realpolitik of the DUP is back to the locking of swings and closing of pubs on Sundays- dont believe me? then ask Sam what the Bible says about working on the Sabbath or try Exodus 31:14. Is this what people voted for? you bet. When do the stonings begin?

  • Nick Pugachev

    ONeil

    “Shaun was once compared to this generation’s WB Yeats…but there again, it was Tony Wilson making the comparison!”

    I prefer the following comparison :

    “Bob Dylan with tourettes syndrome”

    twas in the Guardian, but i havn’t a breeze who said it.

  • Thank you Ivan Foster for opening my heart to the dark underbelly of Snow Patrol – here’s mne thought they were just nice bland wee poppettes for middle classes who don’t like music but like to hang out as if they did. I’ll trade in all my Black Sabbath, Slayer, Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borghir CDs for Snow Patrol’s diabolic platters of filth…nah, on second thoughts won’t. After all while this bleating is going on Oh Yeah!, Metal Works, No Fake ID Required and other not-for-profit organisations are actually working with young people, letting the young people have a say, helping them stay off street corners etc. Oh, and never mind the original Depeche Mode Personal Jesus, Marilyn Manson made it ever so slightly more twisted :), ho hum, guess the DUP/Free P days of banning ELO from Ballymena might just come back…protests at Ozzy gigs etc, oh the joy. Damn with the new inclusive society Poots et al may scupper that fun!

  • Well a politician has to represent ALL his constituents. Also sites like “Concerned Free Presbyterians”, “What Need Of Further Lies”, “Ask Dr Paisley” and “Voice 4 Democracy” have been citing that the Free Presbyterian church partly funded the Christian Institutes legal challenge to the Sexual Orientation Regulation in a Belfast Court where the defendant was the OFMDFM (ie Dr Paisley and Martin McGuinness) – they forget that it would be illegal for the Executive not to defend what is currently law – also upcoming new laws are required in order to comply with EU law which has supremacy. It is a difficult matter but if you are going to take “Be Ye Seperate” seriously then perhaps you should consider becoming like the Amish.

  • Sam Hanna

    No, we don’t have to be Amish – just refuse to implement immoral laws.

    If the EU passes laws requiring all Jews to be killed – should we implement them and shrug our shoulders supinely like you?

  • My but some folk take themselves far too seriously.

  • noel adams

    A thought for sam hanna if free Ps have taken an oath not to dirty their hands with men of violence why is rev McCray being asked questions about meeting billy wright.

  • Presbyterian

    Any news on how the Free Presbyterian moderatorship vote went. It will be interesting if The Big Man was re-elected last night to see the resction of some inside the church.

    Just how Presbyterian are the V4D tendancy inside the FPC? Will they abide by the decision of their Presbytery or will they conform to first instincts and schism because they lost the argument?

  • Harry Flashman

    Headline:

    “Protestant Minister Says Modern Popular Music Doesn’t Promote Christian Morality: Too Much Sexual Promiscuity and Drug Taking in Lyrics.”

    Sub Headline:

    “Usual suspects on Slugger O Toole express anger at minister’s comments”

    Sub Sub Headline:

    “Normal people shrug and say he might have a point”

  • Harry,

    “Normal people”….?????

    So, by definition, does that mean that Ivan Foster’s views are “normal” then Harry? Do they reflect the views of the average Joe Bloggs on the streets of Belfast?

    “Too much sexual promiscuity and drug taking in Lyrics”.

    Such a statement could easily have been made by a Congressman in deepest Alabama back in 1967 Harry…. Where the hell have you been for the past 4 decades…?

    I’ve got news for you Harry. There aint nothing wrong with a bit of sexual promiscuity, and the odd puff here and there is the stuff of life…

    As for all you religous zealouts trying to force this sort of nonsense down the throats of young people, well, Noel Gallagher from the mighty Oasis probably said it best –

    ” Strangle my hope and make me pray
    To a god I’ve never seen but who I betray
    To the people who live the afterlife
    And the place I’ll never be ’til I’m crucified “

  • (Black) Grape and the Grain

    oneill,

    In the name of the father man, where was the Gods Cop pun?

  • foreign correspondent

    Great religious themed car-stickers No. 1:

    ´´Who would Jesus bomb?´´

    PS Johnny Cash´s version of Personal Jesus rocks.

  • Rory

    I am tempted to send the Rev Foster a copy of “Drop-kick me, Jesus, through the Goalposts of Life” by Kinky Freidman and the Texas Jewboys or Kris Kristofferson’s “Jesus was a Capricorn” to aid his spiritual comfort, but I am more seriously concerned that too close a reading of his Bible may expose him to the sensual delights of the Song of David in the Old Testament or the erotic delights of the tale of Mary washing the feet of Jesus with her tears, drying them with the crowning glory of her hair and anointing them with precious ointment. Man, I can’t even get treatment like that from my own personal masseuses, the delightful Mlles Fifi and Trixibelle.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I don’t approve of any music that has sensual beats and lyrics that incite sensual thoughts – I would have though that was obvious as I only accept the Bible as the infallible source to guide my life.

    Sam,

    The hypocrisy goes further. I have seen Free Presbyterians going to church on Sunday with their own children. Clearly the fact that they have children is evidence that there has been sinful touching, and possibly one or two, sensual thoughts going on. Perhaps it would be more biblical to just have a wank into a test tube and give it to an artificial insemination specialist.

    Does the bible allow backrubs or foot massages ?

    BTW I was at the Snow Patrol gig, and yawned the whole way through it. The music was boring and derivative, and they even ran out of songs so started playing the same ones twice at the end. I think they think they’re in the same class as the Undertones or something given the way they played that song at the start, but I can’t think of a song of theirs which would be memorable enough to be sung by the next generation coming up behind us.

    It was a good and well-natured crowd though, not a single spide to be seen, and it was pleasing to see people gathering and enjoying themselves. I did see Cedric Wilson there though, with what appeared to be his wife and one or two other people standing in a circle looking glum.

    Esmerelda:

    I’m more of a Joy Division/New Order type than the Happy Mondays but I do love the remix of Loose Fit that was on one of the Chillout albums.

    Yes! Someone who has taste at last.

    Harry:

    That’s some weird stuff you’re smoking. There’s nothing vaguely normal about Sam Hanna/Ivan Foster’s silly little cult. It doesn’t matter what your beliefs are; you’ll find that most of us agree that little cults like this who insulate themselves from the world are there to be laughed at. I’m just thankful that they are stupid enough to announce their views to all and sundry so that we know to keep the hell away from them.

    Rory:

    “Drop-kick me, Jesus, through the Goalposts of Life”

    I love it!

    I saw a car with a bumper sticker outside the Fly last night which said “333 – half evil”.

  • In the name of the father man, where was the Gods Cop pun?

    Arggh!
    I was too busy trying to work in some Fat Lady Wrestlers 😉

  • esmereldavillalobos

    CS

    Why thank you!

    Aahhhh, The Fly – memories, memories (or lack thereof on a good night).

    I think you’re being slightly harsh on Snow Patrol. No, it may not be the most exciting music ever made but they have cleverly tapped into a market that loves Coldplay (and probably Radiohead circa OK Computer) and at least half the songs off the last 2 albums have been interesting enough. In actual fact Eyes Open IMHO was certainly one of the best put together albums of last year (whole being greater than the sum of the parts etc). I can’t understand how they couldn’t put a 2 hour set together without repetition even just from Final Straw and Eyes Open – were they just playing to the home crowd?

  • Dawkins

    “Pop” combos like Snow Patrol are ineluctably damned to the flames of hell.

    Won’t be much of your snow left then, boys!!!!!

    I shudder to think what baleful influence this filth can have on our children!

    http://www.koreus.com/video/jesus-christ-figurine.html

  • Comrade Stalin

    esmeralda:

    I think New Order are great, although Bernard Sumner’s lyrics are complete nonsense. “I see a ship in the harbour/I can and shall obey/But if it wasn’t for your misfortune/I’d be a heavenly person today” ? Is that supposed to mean something ?

    Reminds me of a silly wee story. A couple of years ago I was having a pint or two with a few friends in that pretentious snobby bar at the McCausland Hotel, when this sort of 40-ish Mancunian bloke came up to us and asked us if we had any E or knew any good clubs to go to get some. I’ve no idea why he thought we might be the right people to ask, but the conversation continued towards music and he claimed that he was a recording engineer/sometime session musician with New Order. I told him that I was a fan, but didn’t believe him at all, so he responded by asking if I wanted to hear some parts from their upcoming album in his hotel room. Naturally I obliged, and went to have a listen to the album which he was apparently mixing on his laptop. It sounded authentic (and I did a google search which turned up his name in connection with the band), but with hindsight I’m not sure, and I think he might have been trying to get laid or something. I was drunk at the time but fortunately I avoided that conclusion.

    Aahhhh, The Fly – memories, memories (or lack thereof on a good night).

    I have had a few good nights in the Fly but to be honest it’s rather pretentious (I wasn’t heading there last night, just walking past). The bouncers there are really really nasty, worse than in most places. My favourite place in Belfast for a pint these days is Bar 12 up the street. I can’t be bothered with most of the other places in town. Belfast seems these days to be only interested in catering for under 25s and pretentious sports-jacket-wearing wannabe nouveau riche tossers.

    I think you’re being slightly harsh on Snow Patrol. No, it may not be the most exciting music ever made but they have cleverly tapped into a market that loves Coldplay (and probably Radiohead circa OK Computer) and at least half the songs off the last 2 albums have been interesting enough.

    I agree that Snow Patrol are tapping into a well-established musical seam. I guess the Beatles eventually did some great music that way. That said, I also think that Coldplay and Radiohead are boring and forgettable, I don’t think kids will be listening to them ten years from now, in the way that we listen to the Undertones or Led Zeppelin now. I’d rather gouge my eyeballs out and stuff them up my arse than listen to one of their albums.

  • I agree. Bar 12 is an under-rated spot. Also try The Spaniard in Skipper Street. Great bar with good music upstairs at the weekends. They used to do a great rum drink called a Sailor Jerry but dont seem to sell it anymore. Anyone know where I could buy a bottle…?

  • Harry Flashman

    macswiney, Comrade Stalin

    Er, just so’s I’m straight on this, you beleive that pop/rock music promotes Christian morality, virtue, abstemiousness and monogamous relationships?

    No, neither do I, nor does the Rev Foster, he doesn’t like it, me I’m easy with it, but you can’t actually disagree with the facts as he presents them.

    It’s quite simple really, he hates pop music for the same reason you love it, but let’s not pretend that his analysis of the culture of pop music (whatever about his opinions of it) is actually inaccurate.

    He’s right, pop music does promote promiscuity, drug taking and licentiousness.

    If it didn’t we wouldn’t like it so much would we? And he’s entitled to think this is a bad thing. He’s a Presbyterian minister after all, what do you expect him to say?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Er, just so’s I’m straight on this, you beleive that pop/rock music promotes Christian morality, virtue, abstemiousness and monogamous relationships?

    To be sure. There are Christian rock bands. You can find out about them on the God Squad websites.

    It’s quite simple really, he hates pop music for the same reason you love it,

    I actually hate pop music as well, by and large.

    I think the point is, if you’re dealing with someone who says that rock music promotes promiscuity and immorality, you know you’re dealing with an asshole. You could spend all day arguing whether it’s true or not and never get anywhere.

  • Rory

    “He’s right, pop music does promote promiscuity, drug taking and licentiousness”

    There you go, Harry, all the ingredients for a good weekend. No wonder the teenagers love it. I wouldn’t mind having a go myself, it sure beats pottering around the allotment digging over ground for Herself’s runner beans and courgettes and whatnot. My only consolation is that my exotic ‘herbs’ are coming along nicely despite the damp summer. Rock on!

  • Fraggle

    “if you’re dealing with someone who says that rock music promotes promiscuity and immorality, you know you’re dealing with an asshole.”

    qft

  • Dawkins

    You’ve got it arse about tip: promiscuity and immorality gave rise to rock music.

    Before it we had Pat Boone and Doris Day. Enough said, I think.

  • Pounder

    Been away all day but finally have the chance to comment on this. Samn you failed to answer my question. You said Ivan Foster was being biblical in his claim that Snow Patrol and Ash where filth. Once again I ask you what part exactly of the bible does it say anything about music being filth.

    Regarding your comment about Mr Poots. When did the DUP become the Christian Democaratic Party? You claim that Poots was elected because he was a christian, can you produce any evidence to back up this claim? How many non christians where elected in the last election? Considering your remark about the RCC being a cult what makes a christian in your opinion?

    In short my conclusion to this whole thing is that this country doesn’t need Phred Phelps to visit we have enough home grown wack jobs.

  • Harry Flashman

    Still not sure I follow what the posters’ objections to Foster’s comments are, we have CS calling him an asshole for saying that pop music promotes licentiousness and drug taking, fraggle appears to agree with this with his reference to quantitive feedback theory whilst everyone else (myself included) seems to believe that of course popular music promotes these things, that’s why it’s so, you know, popular.

    So what is it to be folks is Foster wrong in his interpretation of pop music or is he right but we don’t care, coz it can’t be both?

  • IJP

    God will judge us at the end of time.

    Not you, Ivan. Deal with it.

  • feckit

    He’s right and i don’t care. This thread exists so middle aged people can prove how down with the kids they are.

  • Harry Flashman

    *He’s right and i don’t care. This thread exists so middle aged people can prove how down with the kids they are.*

    I suspect you’re on to something there, feckit, there does appear to be an awful lot of “yeah their new stuff is great, what did you think of the last album?” melarkey going on, something that really should be left behind in the sixth form.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am really hip to the beat man, not like that squaresville Foster, yawneroo daady-oh, I love those Oh Yeah Patrol dudes, and as for that Ashes fella, well groovey baybee, now we’re crooning tunes.

    When the disc jockey spins Kool and the Gang’s latest top pops I’m out there on the dance floor jiving like some hot cool cat disco dancer.

  • The Dubliner

    Harry, at your age ‘hip’ is something you hope you don’t break. 😉

  • Comrade Stalin

    we have CS calling him an asshole for saying that pop music promotes licentiousness and drug taking

    Yes, anyone who says that is usually an asshole who can’t stand the fact that people are enjoying themselves. I’ve a clue for you. People who smoke, drink, take drugs or enjoy a good shag usually didn’t come to those decisions by being instructed on their merits by listening to music. As long as no harm is being done to other people, what’s wrong with it ?

    I suspect you’re on to something there, feckit, there does appear to be an awful lot of “yeah their new stuff is great, what did you think of the last album?” melarkey going on, something that really should be left behind in the sixth form.

    Jesus Harry, I bet you’re a barrel of laughs at a party. All you need to do is start saying “I don’t believe it” in an agitated voice.

    Believe it or not, it’s quite reasonable to continue liking music when you leave school. The Snow Patrol tickets cost £33, it’s hardly as if schoolkids can easily afford that, unless of course their well-to-do parents buy them the tickets. I’d say at least half of the people at that gig were over 25.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am really hip to the beat man, not like that squaresville Foster, yawneroo daady-oh, I love those Oh Yeah Patrol dudes, and as for that Ashes fella, well groovey baybee, now we’re crooning tunes.

    Twat.

  • Harry Flashman

    CS

    I somehow fear it’s you that has had a serious sense of humour bypass mate, you make the Rev Foster sound like Ken Dodd.

    Listen, you clearly don’t like me, and frankly given your past deliberate misinterpretations of things I have said and downright refusal to own up to your mistakes, I’m not terribly keen on you either.

    So why don’t we come to an agreement eh? You ignore my posts and I’ll ignore yours.

    What d’ya say Comrade Twat, mutual ignoring, will that make you happier?

  • slartibuckfast

    “Actually, if you play Snow Patrol’s latest song backwards….”

    It actually sounds good?

    If you’re going to go to hell for listening to rock music should you at not least make it all worthwhile by listening to something that isn’t shite?

  • esmereldavillalobos

    Screw it all, hell has the best tunes anyway – I think I’ll be in good company and I’ll bring the SPF 50.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I somehow fear it’s you that has had a serious sense of humour bypass mate, you make the Rev Foster sound like Ken Dodd.

    Opinions are like assholes, everybody’s got one.

  • Harry Flashman

    “asshole”, “asshole”, “twat”, “assholes” (again)

    Hmm, I see you were hiding behind the door CS when they were handing out the rhetorical skills required for successful debate.

    However, as you clearly wish to continue making an idiot of yourself can I make two points.

    A) If you think schoolkids today can’t afford thirty three quid for a concert (that’s post decimal money CS, not pounds shillings and pence) you are clearly as out of touch as your already pathetic attempts at showing how “with it” you are have so far shown you to be.

    B) As for me being fun at a party, well let’s just say that at the sort of parties I attend the crashing bore whose party piece is discussing the relevant merits of Snow Patrol and Ash would be as popular as a Free Presbyterian minister with halitosis.

    God, you really are a dweeb aren’t you CS (yes I have descended to your debating level, not terribly nice is it?).

  • feckit

    Comrade Stalin

    Harry Flashman’s point was fairly obvious. Ivan Foster doesn’t like rock music because it promotes stuff that most of us find enjoyable. That’s factually correct. Wouldn’t you be more disturbed if Foster condemned Edwin Poots because Snow Patrol were too lightweight?

    BTW Harry, Kool and the Gang are sooo last year.

  • willis

    Sam Hanna

    How do Ivan and yourself stand on flute band music. It seems to encourage drunkenness and promiscuity.

  • IJP

    There is a serious premise behind all this which I think is worth exploring – how far are people really influenced by the popular culture around them?

    Do people murder more because of crime films? Have sex more because of FHM? Drive faster because of Jeremy Clarkson?

    Or is it that we are doing these things anyway, and popular culture is representing us?

    HF, CS

    I don’t want to spoil the fun (I leave that to Ivan Foster), but in the words of the great David Alderdice: “Can we PLEASE have some decorum?”

  • Pounder

    I notice Sam Hanna has chosen not to answer my questions, rabid fundie ducks awkward question shocker?