“If I can see they are trying to do that I will definitely go back.”

An Irish Times report notes Darren Graham’s response to the statement from the Fermanagh GAA County Board, “If I’m selected I will turn out. But I will also be wanting to see what progress they make on the whole judgement around it, and if they are taking a stand.” County Board Chairman, Peter Carty, also said on the BBC’s Newsline that no individuals or clubs had been identified by Mr Graham in the meeting this week and that “There was no official complaint” – which will probably mean that there will be no sanctions against clubs or individuals. Also in the Irish Times, earlier this week, Fintan O’Toole had an interesting article on the background to the abuse. [subs req]From the Irish Times

They got Ronnie Graham first, while he was delivering coal not far from his own house in Lisnaskea. He was 39, writes Fintan O’Toole

After the killing, the IRA left the guns to be moved by a 13-year-old boy, who had been recruited into its youth wing by a teacher at his school.

Five months later, in November 1981, Ronnie’s younger brother, Cecil, was visiting his wife and their newborn baby at her parents’ house. She had gone to stay there because the baby had been born prematurely and needed constant attention. But Cecil’s wife was a Catholic, and the house she was staying in was in a nationalist area. Cecil was spotted going into the house. As he left, he was shot 16 times.

It took them more than three years to get the third Graham brother. They had tried to get Jimmy in 1980, but he had fought them off, and been given a medal. Perhaps his escape had annoyed them, or perhaps, as many Protestants believed, there was a deliberate plan of ethnic-cleansing, aimed at wiping out whole families. In any case, he was a soft target now. He arrived in the school bus he drove to collect children from a primary school and take them to the local swimming pool. He was parking the bus when they fired the first two shots at him. Then they got into the bus and fired 24 more shots, just to be sure.

..

Darren Graham’s paternal grandfather was a member of the B Specials. His father, uncles and aunt were part-time members of the Ulster Defence Regiment, which allowed the IRA to justify its assault on the family. But his mother was Catholic and so is his two-year-old daughter.

And, after noting the author Colm Tóibín’s references to the murders in Bad Blood

Darren Graham [son of Cecil Graham] didn’t make a big issue of his religious affiliation. But that wasn’t enough to stop other people doing it for him.

What was done to the Grahams – the methodical murders; the naked joy when they got Jimmy at last – left at least some people with a bad conscience. Cecil Graham’s Catholic father-in-law told the inquest in 1983 that he was upset that in the two years since Cecil’s death “none of the neighbours had extended sympathy or even mentioned the murder of his son-in-law”. But the silence belied an unspoken disturbance.

Colm Tóibín, when he walked through the area three years after they got the third Graham brother, found that the dead Grahams were seen as uneasy, vengeful spirits still haunting the place.

As he was talking to two young Catholic men in Kinawley, he mentioned the spate of tragic car accidents in the locality, in which all the victims seemed to be young Catholic men. “People think it’s revenge,” one of them blurted out. When pushed, they explained that the older people maintained that the accidents were a sort of revenge for what was done to the Grahams. “God, you know, did I understand? It was God.”

The unspoken guilt transmuted itself into irrational fear and it is not hard to see how that fear could in turn be channelled into the abuse of Cecil Graham’s son.

Guilt for the murderous campaign against Border Protestants was kept at bay by the notion that the victims were off-duty UDR men and therefore mere ciphers of British imperialism.

Darren Graham had the temerity to punch through that easy tribal stereotype by playing GAA and not defining himself simply as a Protestant. It took the hate that dares not speak its name to make him one now.

, ,

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Shocking story and well told except for unconvincing amateur psychology bit – “The unspoken guilt transmuted itself into irrational fear and it is not hard to see how that fear could in turn be channelled into the abuse of Cecil Graham’s son.” – probably just dont like Prods and when the opportunity to shoot them is not available then they have to make do with some verbals.

  • 1. the issue at hand is the sectarian abuse the player received related to his religion. It has nothing to do w the killing of members of his family. D Graham said as much in the Ferm. Herald and he quoted some of the insults – did the journo even read the original? I’d doubt it.

    2. O’Toole has widened the issue to cover the relatives deaths for his own sensationalist reasons and sales of the Irish Thames. He references the writing of Colm Toibin who obviously quoted the local village idiots views (or bluts when pushed) on traffic accidents, ghosts and UDR killings – now thats not investigative journalism.

    3. O’Toole after reviewing the situation as a ‘professional codologist’ then comes to the conclusion that nationalist fear/guilt of the population of Ferm led to the insults. Twenty – something year old players guilty for UDR killings which happened in the 1980’s!?!? I think not.

    [edited moderator]

  • Outsider

    I’m not quite sure what Darren Graham expected when he got involved in the GAA, his return to this so called sporting organisation was very predicatable.

    While I condemn the abuse he has recieved it was his choice to join the organisation therefore I have little sympathy for him and this is a feeling held by many Unionists.

  • GavBelfast

    It’s a chilling story, it seems unbelievably cruel that one family could have endured so much. And all those bullets to finish the victims off, the more blood and the bigger mess the better to psychopaths pulling triggers I suppose.

    I wonder did Nicky Brennan suggest that a way back into the sport for Darren would be one of his experimetal Prods-only GAA teams/clubs?

    One suspects window-dressing and damage-limitation is at work here rather than dealing with what is fundamentally wrong with the GAA that makes the abusers feel so at home and confident of their behaviour.

  • Outsider

    The gaa’s image is the key factor in all of this, I have not seen or read one thing that will prevent this happening again.

  • [edited moderator]

    Posted by anonymous on Aug 09, 2007 @ 11:44 PM

    Mick, that’s disgraceful that you’d take my ribbing of the so called journo as insulting and edit my posts. I’ve seen a lot worse posts on this site related to public figures names and you’ve let them slide. I assume that you edited my posting as you foolishly hold the Irish Thames in such high regard and fawn over their journos …. sloppy work on your part.

  • Mick

    You presume too much annonymous. I did not moderate your post. But I have no problems with the way in which it was done.

    It is your responsibility to play the ball and not the man. I’m not against the use of the word ‘shite’ per se.

    But if you can’t lay out a simple argument without resorting to petty insult, then I respectfully ask that you try again.

  • Outsider

    But if you can’t lay out a simple argument without resorting to petty insult, then I respectfully ask that you try again.

    Good point but surely that point could be made to many posters whom when backed into a corner simply resort to swearing as a defence mechanism.

    While not defending ‘anonymous’ his/her post was certainly a far cry from many of the hate filled comments posted onto this site in relation to the Orange Order.

  • joeCanuck

    This is one of the most shocking tales from the “troubles” that I have ever read.
    It’s awfully hard to understand how any family could recover from that.

  • sammaguire

    Alot of anti GAA people putting in the boot here. If you want to paint it as a sectarian bigoted organisation it says more about your own mindsets than anything else. Of course you’ll find sectarian twits in most sports in the North (and indeed throughout the whole island) but it’s unfair to insinuate that the GAA is happy to ignore sectarianism. The matter will be dealt with and it will not be window dressing as suggested. Interesting to see Fintan O’Toole and Kevin Myers developing a late interest in GAA affairs though I suspect neither will be at the 82,500 sell-out on Saturday. Wouldn’t look good having a sophisticated Irish Times journalist at a “bog ball” game would it?

  • Harry Flashman

    *Wouldn’t look good having a sophisticated Irish Times journalist at a “bog ball” game would it?*

    That would come as a huge surprise to Tom Humphries and John Allen and Nicky English and Keith Duggan and John O’ Keefe and Ian O’Riordan. Have you ever actually read the Irish Times sammaguire or do you just make things up as you go along?

  • Shore Road Resident

    This is an article that stands the nationalist communinty in Lisnaskea in some credit – it makes it clear that they were as cowed and disgusted by the sectarian IRA death squads as their Protestant neighbours.
    I suspect that’s why this story is really driving the apologists up the wall.

  • I Wonder

    “I have little sympathy for him”
    – Outsider

    With an attitude like that, your name seems appropriate. Stay there.

    A terrible, shocking story.

    Killing a coalman, a man vulnerable because he married a Catholic girl, for Christ’s sake and a bus driver in front of the kids. And then abusing a relative because of all of that.

    Fucking sectarian bastards.

  • Paul

    I truely have to wonder about the collective mentality about some of the contributors on this site. It seems to me that the Unionist view of certain events comes simply from the ‘Uncle Andy said it so it must be true’school of revisionism. Wake up people ! There was NO mass genocide of ‘Protestant’ people , while not condoning what happened to members of the Graham family it is plain to anyone with a semblance of rationale that their involvement in the UDR was their undoing and NOT their religion. By hey, don’t let the truth get in the way of the Unionist myth.

  • I Wonder

    “their involvement in the UDR was their undoing ”

    3 brothers, eh? That was co-incidence?

    Its equally clear to anyone with a semblance of rationale that such focussed murder and the fact that one married a Catholic demonstrates a sectarian hatred equivalent to anything demonstrated by Loyalists.

    Didn’t Jimmy’s killers whoop with joy and shoot at “the wee birdies off the telephone wires” as they celebrated the killing? What a vision of Hellish hatred that conjures up…and, as the article implies, Hell was indeed invoked.

    This was not the only family to receive the focussed attention of the killers: Ross and Margaret Ann Hearst come to mind. Co-incidence again?

  • Paul

    ? It is irrelevent to whom they were married, again you attempt to bring religion into the equation.

    Does anyone honestly believe that if the Grahams had no involvment with the Security/Crown forces that they would have been cut down anyway?

  • joeCanuck

    “It seems to me that the Unionist view of certain events comes simply from the ‘Uncle Andy said it so it must be true’school of revisionism. “

    I am not a Unionist.

  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    Phew thanks Paul for clearing that up for us. So you can clarify that ALL protestants deliberately targetted and murdered by PIRA were members of the security forces can you?

    Stories such as the Graham family account above are very very rarely told. They’re an ‘inconvenient truth’ in the republican myth.
    Hey Paul maybe we should have some sort of memorial for the brave lads who shot a bus driver 26 times in front of some primary school kids.

    Well at least we can count on the GAA to do the right thing by the surviving family members. Can’t we?

  • Shore Road Resident

    Yes, Paul, of course they would. In instances in Fermanagh where members of families scheduled for ethnic cleansing could not be conveniently linked to the security forces, other excuses were found. These included “economic target” (i.e. shopkeepers) or “political target” (i.e. councillors). Plus, of course, anyone who farmed or owned land could be shot out of hand as an “occupier”.
    If you would like to claim that Sinn Fein never justified murder in Fermanagh on the basis of “economic targets” or “political targets” then please do go ahead.

  • One thing that strike me about all this from my southern remove is that it appears to be as much a manifestation of a culture, on the surface at least, in the GAA of not being able to get on with your near neighbour. Inter parish rivalries are enormous and frankly players and supporters will say anytihng that comes into their heads (and yes they do mean it) and the win at all costs mentality translates into doing and saying anything that might unsettle your opponent. The particular problem in this instance is that Graham can’t respond in kind because those giving it wouldn’t be able to take it.

    Yet at inter county level fans appear to be able to banter away with each other, the players on the other hand. Well, that might just be down to my experience as a Kerryman.

  • Paul

    joeCanuck – I never said you were?

    Gerry lvs Castro – No I can’t, certainly in the early to mid 70’s their was sectarian murder, not on the wholesale scale as committed by Loyalists but yes there was. I was however challenging this notion of ‘innocent’ even though a member of the security/crown forces.

    ShoreRoadResident – The use of the term ‘scheduled for ethnic cleansing’ is highly emotive and rather fanciful given what has happened in Rwanda, the former Yugoslavia and Poland. I would rather not engage with such paranoia. Disgraceful.

  • IJP

    sammaguire

    It is not unreasonable to point out the GAA is ignoring sectarianism.

    The important point, though, is that any organization which is 95%+ from one side of the “divide” has to ask itself questions as to why that is, and come up with an answer better than “It’s because themmuns is sectarian, so they are”. The GAA is far from unique here.

    The concern from the Fermanagh Board is obviously genuine. But the underlying issue is the “secret sectarianism” here – it simply isn’t good enough to say “Well I just go and play and I don’t care about politics”. If every single player around you is of the same religious background, in NI, you have a responsibility to ask yourself the awkward questions as to why that is.

    The Graham incident is a consequence of ignoring the issue, but I have no complaints directly about what the Board has said and done about it. The issue is what will be done in the longer term.

  • Shore Road Resident

    So Paul, my language is “disgraceful” but your excuse-making for murder is not?
    Good Lord.
    I note you have not denied that Sinn Fein used the justifications of “economic targets” and “political targets” to excuse sectarian murders in Fermanagh. I will take this as an admission that you accept the point.

  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    Thanks Paul for that admission, though the deliberate targetting of protestants, particularly in border areas, continued long after the mid 70s, often as SRR points out, on the flimsiest of flimsy excuses.

    Being related to a security force member, being a farmer, a councillor or indeed any type of business person is hardly a capital offence, and many of the people who sought to justify this sick murder campaign are currently in government.

    An uncomfortably large slice of the provo campaign was predicated on murder for it’s own sake — the Teebane massacre, shooting a cleaner in Lurgan and a businessman on the Boucher Road, just a few off the top of my head, could only be described as psychopathic savagery.

    In retrospect, there were virtually NO justifiable murders committed during the troubles, and your apparent view that members of the security forces were legitimate targets is a particularly sick joke given SFs acceptance of the current Northern Ireland police force.

  • I Wonder

    “In retrospect, there were virtually NO justifiable murders committed during the troubles”

    Yes, exactly.

  • Rory

    “This is one of the most shocking tales from the “troubles” that I have ever read.”

    Posted by joeCanuck on Aug 10, 2007 @ 01:20 AM

    God bless you, Joe, you truly are an innocent.

    It is indeed a shocking tale but perhaps you should read more.

  • Tochais Síoraí

    My tuppence worth but so much boiled down to perception.

    For the great majority of Protestants there was no distinction made between the killing of a UDR man and a civilian Protestant, no distinction at all. The p-t uDR man was a day to day member of the community possibly even more so than a policeman who by nature has to be at a certain remove because of the job.

    For most Catholics, even the most moderate of nationalists my experience was that rightly or wrongly there was a distinction made. Most didn’t support the IRA campaign against p-t UDR members but there was never the same revulsion that there would have been if a non-military protestant was killed. The UDR were reviled amongst nationalists in border ares much more than the RUC and the regular British Army and there was always a fear of the UDR which the Provos fed off and the circle of hatred went around and around. Thank fukk the worst of it is over (and best wishes to DG in the future)

  • Aaron McDaid

    “Darren Graham had the temerity to punch through that easy tribal stereotype by playing GAA and not defining himself simply as a Protestant. ”

    Maybe he still defines himself simply as a Protestant. A Protestant can decide play soccer and be no less ‘simply a Protestant’. GAA is no different.

    That’s not the only gross oversimplification in this article. The UDR membership was mentioned very late in the article; as if Fintan wanted to push us to a particular interpretation and was reluctant to mention all the potentially relevant facts.

  • joeCanuck

    No Rory, I am not an innocent, nor do I need to read more.
    There cannot be many families that lost 3 brothers in this squalid conflict.

  • Harry Flashman

    “In retrospect, there were virtually NO justifiable murders committed during the troubles”

    Yes, exactly.

    Lenny Murphy?

  • GavBelfast

    Would those who would draw attention to victims like those in the Graham family and the search for justice for them be welcome at the ‘March for ‘Truth” this Sunday? Would ‘Relatives for ‘Justice” welcome them into their ranks?

  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    “In retrospect, there were virtually NO justifiable murders committed during the troubles”

    Harry I deliberately inserted the word ‘virtually’ because there were undoubtedly a few which elicited rather less sympathy than most. I suspect Loughgall (less the one innocent victim), Lenny & Billy Wright amongst others might fall into that category, but it doesn’t alter the fact that 99.99999% of the victims were murdered / maimed for absolutely no good reason other than blind hatred.

    It also doesn’t alter the fact that with even fewer exceptions (Gordon Wilson springs to mind) NO-ONE came out of this conflict with any shred of dignity or moral high ground. For SF to take the stance that they somehow have the monopoly on the truth and the hierarchy of victims is insulting both to the victims and to basic common sense.
    The difference these days is that no-one of any particular importance is listening.

  • andy

    Some good points made.

    My take would be to say that to equate what went on in NI – whether in Fermanagh or North Belfast – with “ethnic cleansing” or “genocide” is frankly an insult against communities who actually have been at the receiving end of such treatment.

  • andy

    Gav Belfast
    your point that some organisations have a hierachy of victims is well made (I know you would say the same about groups perceived to be on the “other side”)
    However i thought that at least the ostensible rationale behind organisations like relatives for justice was to uncover the truth behind which organisations were responsible for certain murders – most specifically i suppose that the security forces were actually responsible for murders commited by loyalists.
    The contrast with the grahams is that nobody doubts the IRA were responsible for their deaths.

  • Peter

    The GAA made a big and very stupid mistake in voting in support of the “struggle for national liberation” in the early 70s.
    Not to mention the moral implications, it left itself open to every charge that could be laid against it.
    This vote didn’t even reflect the position of a large majority of its southern membership who themselves form a large majority of overall members. Its very debatable whether it reflected the views of even a majority of its northern members. But they steamed ahead irrespective of what anyone thought.

  • Harry Flashman

    GLC

    Point taken (and we could throw Basher Bates and Dominic McGlinchey into the “not a damp eye in the house” category”).

    Andy

    *with “ethnic cleansing” or “genocide” is frankly an insult against communities who actually have been at the receiving end of such treatment.*

    I agree “genocide” might be over-egging the pudding but not “ethnic-cleansing”, they’re not synonymous terms.

    The former is the deliberate and systematic attempt to wipe out an entire race or group of people; the latter is merely killing a few or generally making it unpleasant enough for the rest to decide that it’s better to leave a mixed area and thus produce a “clean” territory of only one type of people.

    What went on along the border, the west bank of Derry and several isolated Catholic communities in Antrim and Belfast would certainly qualify for the term “ethnic cleansing”

  • I Wonder

    Lenny Murphy?

    Hmmm..no, Harry, lets not go there.

    Or else…if a majority of Catholics AND Protestants agree that someone deserved what they got, can we truly claim that the killing was justifiable?

    (Note: I don’t think it possible to talk of a “justifiable murder” as “murder” means “wrongful killing” – therefore to talk of a “justifiable wrongful killing” seems somewhat contradictory.)

  • andy

    Hi Harry
    I appreciate they’re not synonomous, but I would still say ethnic cleansing is too much. I know where you’re coming from, but I would associate ethnic cleansing more with former-yugoslavia, present day Iraq or Lebanon in the 80s. All of which definitely put Fermanagh, South Armagh, North Belfast etc completely in the shade.

  • Broken Social Scene

    “the latter is merely killing a few ”

    Note the word merely. I would say more but quite frankly i’m disgusted.

  • “You presume too much annonymous. I did not moderate your post. But I have no problems with the way in which it was done. “

    then I should have addressed my second post to the person who did edit. However as you agree with the editing then, in hindsight, the same applies to you.

    “It is your responsibility to play the ball and not the man. I’m not against the use of the word ‘shite’ per se. “

    Ball was played and a list of points given; the exclusion of the word shite doesn’t come into my complaint. The article was described in a fitting manner and my reason for this opinion. “Playing the man” related to a common word play on the supposed journo’s and tabloidesque psychologist’s name… commonly written in the media about this public figure.

    “But if you can’t lay out a simple argument without resorting to petty insult…”

    laid out and numbered for the ‘slow learners’ (S. Mallon) without insult but a common ribbing of your favoured journo.

    If I’d used insult you would have thrown up. May I suggest that you review some of the international papers to learn about proper journalism rather than the excuse that is the Irish Thames (or Guardian in Irel).

  • Cruimh

    The world is so much worse off for having lost your witty, insightful and brilliant post anonymous.

    Actually – it was shite and a waste of bandspace.
    Keep u the good work Mods!

  • Sam Maguire

    Despite the fact I have only posted sporadically over this past few years I would like to point out that sammaguire posting earlier in this thread wasn’t me.

  • whateve’ Maggot.

    You just keep thinking that your orange little world will just keep motoring along as the London Exchequer starts pulling the plug on your sponsered society. Then you’ll be dragged into the 20th centary

    Keep up the good work mods… this site is maintaining it’s fawning big house (all ireland) unionist slant… Cruimh’s given it a seal of approval.

  • interested

    An interesting direction this particular thread has taken – whilst the journalist writing this piece probably ‘dramatised’ events to a degree, everything was factual.

    It clearly makes many people uncomfortable when things like this are written and they need to ask themselves why. It does come back to the degree of re-writing to which our very recent history is subjected to. ‘Legitimate targets’ or ‘UDR bigots’ was a much easier way to think of those three men rather than three young men with families gunned down, at least partially simply because of their religion.

    Then there are those who get terribly annoyed because the GAA might in some way become associated with sectarianism, when of course its only a “few members with sectarian attitudes” which cause the problem. Its an organisation which for decades was quite happy for Darren Graham to play the sport, but of course wouldnt have actually have allowed his father to play, and had he had been allowed to live, you do have to wonder would Mr Graham snr been made welcome along to watch his son play the sport he loves?

    The GAA clearly had nothing to do with the murder of anyone, let alone security force personnel, but they didn’t exactly help create a climate where members of the RUC, UDR etc were thought of as ‘ordinary members of the community’ by nationalists.

    I agree that “genocide” is an utterly crazy word to use in the NI context given what happened here and how it pales in comparison with what others suffered, equally using terms like holocaust or likening someone to a Nazi are equally distasteful.

    However, ‘ethnic cleansing’ isn’t in the same territory and there can only be one conclusion when you look at the way in some areas, the Protestant/Unionist community was targetted. Its quite right to point out that once you removed the ‘Legitimate Targets’ of RUC/UDR etc, ‘economic targets’ of shopkeepers and farmers out of the equation it doesn’t leave that many male Protestants left not to shoot, particularly given the % of young Protestant males who served in the UDR\RUC for at least some of their life in even a part-time capacity.

    The GAA has got away this time with some nice words which in fairness have been helpful and obviously have encouraged Darren Graham to go back to play.

    When are they actually going to do something though?

  • lib2016

    There was a time when no criticism was allowed here of the Irish Independent and it’s team of professional anti-republicans. Now that protection seems to be extended to the ‘journalists’ on the Irish Times.

    When there are so few ‘journalists’ left still pumping out the same old propaganda I suppose they have become an endangered species and Slugger’s position is understandable, wrong but understandable.

    Unionism doesn’t have many friends left after all and one should care for one’s friends. It will be interesting however to watch what happens the next time someone links to Feeney in the Irish News. 😉

  • unionism

    lib
    “Unionism doesn’t have many friends left”

    A million or so of them in Northern Ireland and still be plenty of them by 2016 and beyond! 😉

  • lib2016

    Interested’

    I didn’t cry for members of the IRA who were killed because presumably they knew the risk when they decided to pick up a gun.

    Same goes for the UDR, UDA, UVF and BA etc.

    If one criticises republicans for the use of physical force then that should surely apply to all the combattants?

  • lib2016

    unionism,

    How many votes did this mythical ‘million’ in NI produce, and have they any friends left anywhere in the world, including even at Westminster?

    ‘No-one wants to know you when you’re down and out’ 😉

  • interested “whilst the journalist writing this piece probably ‘dramatised’ events to a degree, everything was factual.”

    He tabloided the player leaving Ferm GAA because of sectarian insults into a blood soaked story involving the village idiots “blurting when pushed” rambling about ghosts and linking teenage car deaths to killings in the ‘80’s.

    “… where members of the RUC, UDR etc were thought of as ‘ordinary members of the community’ by nationalists. “

    in case you didn’t notice, in NI up until a few years ago, the RUC & UDR weren’t ordinary members of the community but the military wing of the Unionist govt of Stormont and then state sponsored terrorists for Thatcher. The bullying tactics of those unemployable elsewhere who joined the UDR were inflicted to a greater extent on active members of the GAA than the rest of the nationalist community (see Patsy Kelly, Trillick, Tyrone 1974). Related might be the killing of Derry GAA official, Sean Brown in ’97 when the RUC were investigated by the Ombudsman.

    “The GAA has got away this time with some nice words which in fairness have been helpful and obviously have encouraged Darren Graham to go back to play.
    When are they actually going to do something though? “

    Obviously there’s no pleasing some people … probably because you don’t want to be pleased, you’re just anti GAA. Well tough, it’s a strong (non sectarian organization) which will out live any anti GAA efforts. It’s always been attacked and survived.

  • Outsider

    With an attitude like that, your name seems appropriate. Stay there. (I Wonder/)

    For speaking my mind and reflecting the opinions of the wider Protestant community. I have said what happened to him was wrong but this entire episode is a farce. He left the gaa citing years of bigotry drove him out and he wanted to see mechanisms put in place to prevent this happening again. Within a week the gaa huffs and puffs, issues Graham an apology and hes back, is it any wonder that this storyline has not gained much interest in mainstream Protestant circles.

  • Finbarr

    I’m from Fermanagh and this case has brought to light some of the events that happened there during the troubles.

    Jimmy Graham wasn’t killed in front of the kids waiting to go swimming. That was because the headmaster of the Catholic primary school in Derrylin asked Jimmy to turn up 5 minutes early on that particular morning, at 10-55am. I don’t think I have to say anything more on that subject. The headmaster died 6 months later after a sudden illness. Some locals believe this was the beginning of some sort of curse from above.

    Also, Darren Graham’s aunt also lost her life when a car crashed through a UDR checkpoint and hit her. So all 4 siblings in the Graham family died violent deaths.

    As a side note, I believe that Sean Lynch has something to do with Lisnaskea Emmets. That’s Sean Lynch, former IRA man who was injured in the incident that saw Seamus McElwaine killed by the SAS.

    In Fermanagh 95% of murders were committed by the IRA, with Protestant farmers, shopkeepers, businessmen and former members of the security forces targeted, as well as RUC and UDR men. Just check out the names of Gillian Johnston, Harold Keys, Jack McClenaghan, Emily Bullock for starters.

    The mentality amongst Protestants in Fermanagh during the troubles was no matter how friendly your rural Catholic neighbour was, are they the one supplying information to the IRA gunmen??? Somebody was.

  • CSC

    Regarding the GAA in this thread.
    If Darren had previously gone to the GAA with a compliant and they did nothing, then the GAA is at fault. If not, its purely a society problem, and truth be told (from Darren) all the incidents revolve around 3 Ferm clubs not every club he played against.
    Also the whole displinary structure of the GAA is based on the referee’s report. Darren was probably told that if this ever happend again, report it to the ref and the Ferm board will take action.
    All disiplinary investigations relating to matches are based upon the refs report. People have had jaws broken in matches, and because the ref didn’t report it nothing was done.

    Cumbersome system but thats the way it works

  • darth rumsfeld

    Many thanks to Dublin for their fine work on Saturday, sparing us from a repeat of 1993

  • Finbarr,
    I’m not from Fermanagh but anyway… I think your posting about the headmaster and it’s hints / innuendo is a disgrace.

    This thread has spoken of ethnic cleansing and you posted about the IRA and 95% of the killings so I went to the CAIN site for a list of killing in Ferm… there were 112 killings in Ferm with 97 by Republicans (about 87% so your figure isn’t too far off).

    However, if we go to Wiki and see the troubles in Ferm … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:The_Troubles_in_County_Fermanagh

    I downloaded a copy of the Wiki entries and added a few extras to bring me up to half of the 112 people killed. You can see that most killed were part of security forces…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:The_Troubles_in_County_Fermanagh

    2 26 August 1972 – Alfred Johnston (32) and James Eames (33) UDR
    3 16 November 1972 – Joseph Calvin (42)RUC
    4 5 June 1973 – David Purvis (22)RUC
    5 25 November 1981 – Angela D’Arcy, Catholic civilian, was shot by an off-duty member of the British Army
    7 9 November 1982 – Garry Ewing (31) RUC, Helen Woodhouse (29), Protestant civilian
    8 19 February 1983 – Alan Price (53), Protestant civilian
    11 18 May 1984 – Thomas Agar (35), Robert Huggins (29) and Peter Gallimore (27), British Army.
    12 3 March 1985 – Hugh McCormac (40), RUC (Catholic)
    13 7 April 1985 – Martin Love (24), Catholic civilian.
    14 9 January 1987 – Ivan Crawford (49), RUC
    15 8 November 1987 – Edward Armstrong (52), RUC
    20 8 November 1987 – Marie Wilson (20), Samuel Gault (49), Georgina Quinton (72), John Megaw (68), Wesley Armstrong (62)
    26 8 November 1987 – Bertha Armstrong (53), William Mullan (72), Agnes Mullan (70), Kit Johnston (70), Jessie Johnston (66) and Ronnie Hill (68), civilians, all Protestants,
    27 18 March 1988 – Gillian Johnston (21), a Protestant civilian.
    29 4 August 1988 – William Hassard (59) and Frederick Love (64), both Protestant civilians. Both were contractors to the British Army/RUC.
    30 5 February 1992, Joseph McManus, IRA
    33 15 May 1976 – Harry Keys (29), Francis Kettles (39) and Thomas Evans (33), RUC
    35 September 1972 – Thomas Bullock (53), UDR, and his civilian wife, Emily Bullock (50)
    36 2 December 1984 – Alistair Slater (28), British Army.
    37 2 December 1984 – Antoine Mac Giolla Bhrighde (27) IRA, Kieran Fleming (26) IRA
    39 7 August 1972 – David Wynne (21) and Errol Gordon (22), BA
    41 6 May 1979 – Norman Prue (29), Royal Ulster Constabulary and Robert Maughan (30), BA
    42 11 February 1986 – Derek Breen (29) RUC, and John McCabe (25) Catholic civilian
    44 24 October 1972 – Michael Naan (35) and Andrew Murray (25), Catholic civilians killed by the British Army.
    46 2 June 1972 – Victor Husband (23) and Brian Robertson (23), BA
    47 11 February 1980 – Joseph Rose (21) and Winston Howe (35), RUC
    49 13 December 1989 – Michael Paterson (21) and James Houston (23), BA.
    50 19 May 1979 – Jack McClenaghan, UDR
    51 2-Dec-74 Maddocks, John BA
    52 6-May-79 Maughan, Robert BA
    53 12 October 1973, McAdam, Raymond Catholic Civ
    54 13-Feb-72 McCann, Thomas BA
    55 5-Feb-80 Abercrombie, Aubrey UDR
    56 17-Nov-81 Beacom, Albert UDR

    Please don’t think that this is an attempt to justify the killings. It’s my attempt to analyse others postings claiming ethnic cleansing which I don’t think holds up.

  • joeCanuck “No Rory, I am not an innocent, nor do I need to read more.
    There cannot be many families that lost 3 brothers in this squalid conflict. “

    there was the three Reavey brothers and the two ODowd brothers and an uncle (all three were SDLP) killed on the same night in 1974 by Robin Jackson and the Glennane Gang mainly comprised of UDR members. These killings lead to the Kingsmills killings in reprisal

  • willowfield

    Anonymous

    It is equally criminal to murder a policeman as it is to murder anyone else.

    What’s more, the Provisional IRA deliberately intimidated, murdered and ostracised Roman Catholic policemen and UDR men and their families in order to ensure that the police force and UDR was overwhelmingly Protestant: their targeting, therefore, of members of those forces was sectarian.

    Further, in rural areas in particular, like Fermanagh, a large proportion of the Protestant male population served in the UDR in a part-time capacity, as a means of communal and self-defence, while still living in the community. Such men were deliberately targeted for murder by PIRA. This targeting was a sectarian campaign against the Protestant community in Fermanagh.

  • hence I posted “Please don’t think that this is an attempt to justify the killings” but of course you wish to read what you wish to read.

    The security forces were Protestant regardless. They had no support from nearly half the population incl the SDLP and the church. The UDR was officially known to be 17% illegal paramilitary. The UDR / B Specials were a means of employing those incapable of getting a job elsewhere.

  • Finbarr

    Anonymous,

    There were over 140 murders in Fermanagh, and from reading down your list I can see several omissions, including Herbert Kernaghan who was shot while delivering milk to a school in Rosslea.

    There was also the last Protestant businessman in Rosslea, Douglas Deering, murdered in his shop in 1977. he was in no organisation and was actually a member of a small Protestant sect who believe in pacisfism and are against the idea of joining security forces and the like.

    In the list you published, Jack McClenaghan is listed as UDR. Not that it matters, but he was actually a civilian breadman who was shot in back while going about his job in the border village of Garrison. A 64-year-old man shot by real heroes while he delivered bread in a Catholic village.

    There are also several Protestants from Fermanagh who were murdered outside the county, such as Harold Keys, who was just 24 and brutally murdered in front of his Catholic girlfriend in Ballintra, Co. Donegal. His killers also whooped with joy as they left the scene of the crime as Harold lay dying in his own vomit and blood, having been shot 30 times. His crime? He was a retired RUC officer.

    You have said my comments are a disgrace. All I have done is point out that Jimmy Graham was asked to show up 5 minutes early on that particular day. That actually happened, which might well have been a coincidence, but deserved investigation, wouldn’t you say?

  • Finbarr

    Also Anonymous, if you’re going to use sources to back up your argument, you could at least use a more reputable one than Wikipedia. Which, by and large, has been hi-jacked by Republicans revisionists when it comes to discussing the events of Irish history and the troubles in general.

    Cain would be a better start, or the Lost Lives book when doing a headcount of murders in Fermanagh.

  • I took the figure of 112 from the CAIN site which is acknowledged as the definative listing of killings. This database is based on information supplied by Malcolm Sutton who in turn was a co author w McKittrick of your mentioned “Lost Lives”

    I needed a web based list of incidents in Fermanagh and wiki provided this. I explained that from starting w wiki I was using their listing of two or more deaths in one incident. I mentioned that this fell short of a 50% of CAIN’s 112 so I added a few more.

    I tried to post dis-passionately while you seem to like the tabloid mode – I’ll stay objective thanks.

    how you hint at a conspricy involving the timing of Jimmy Graham’s arrival on the day of his killing is a pathetic, tabloidesque disgrace.

  • willowfield

    Anonymous

    The security forces were Protestant regardless.

    Partly as a result of the intimidation and murder of RC members by PIRA. The Protestant make-up of the forces meant that attacks on them were in effect sectarian.

    The UDR was officially known to be 17% illegal paramilitary.

    “Officially known” by whom?

    The UDR / B Specials were a means of employing those incapable of getting a job elsewhere.

    Evidence? Didn’t think so.

  • “Partly as a result of the intimidation and murder of RC members by PIRA. The Protestant make-up of the forces meant that attacks on them were in effect sectarian. ”

    wrong, the BSpecials / UDR was formed to enforce (bully) the Protestant parliament for a Protestant people. They were the thugs in uniform to intimidate and terrorise the nationalist population.

    By your rationale the catholic make up of the IRA effective means that the British Army, killing IRA, members, was / is effectively sectarian… I must let me MEP know and see can we charge them in The Hague court – rubbish.

    Officially by the official report from your Gov back “as early as 1973”…. You’ll note that the UDR were interconnected with the RUC and UVF thro’out…
    http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/details_on_that_udr_and_collusion_story/
    you must accept this official report… it’s not like HMG would lie now would they !?!?

    “……. in December 1925 , the pro-British ‘A’ and ‘C’ Special Constabulary (in the Six-Occupied Counties) had mutinied and taken their own Officers as hostages ; they were about to become unemployed (and , for most of them , unemployable !) and wanted a better deal . On 16th December 1925 , they handed in their demands to the Stormont ‘Minister for Home Affairs’ , ‘Sir’ Richard Dawson Bates , who was not impressed with their conduct …….”

  • Cruimh

    “you must accept this official report…

    So you accept the Widgery report ? 😉

  • not in the slightest would I accept any HMG report… I asked the question of páirc na saileach as a good British subject HE should accept the report that one in seven member of the UDR were state sponsered terrorists.

    You’ll note that I bring gov lying into my postings and likewise you bring the Widgery report which is complete lies and white wash… and you see the similarities!?!? Thanks, at least we’re getting places.. perfidious Albion and all that.

  • darth rumsfeld “Many thanks to Dublin for their fine work on Saturday, sparing us from a repeat of 1993 ”

    as a Dub then I appreciate your ‘heart felt’ congrats – lets hope we win the Sam.

    While on the topic of Derry playing in Dublin I’m reminded of the UDR killing of Seamus Heaney’s cousin…

    * A County Derry man whose brother and a companion were shot dead in 1975 believes members of a UDR patrol where responsible for the killings. The family also have reason to believe that Robert McConnell was a member of that UDR patrol.

    GAA fans Colm McCartney and Sean Farmer, returning to Derry from a football match in Dublin, were found dead at the side of a road near Newtownhamilton in County Armagh. Both had been shot.

    Sean McCartney, a brother of Colm, said that his family believe the pair were killed by members of a UDR patrol which was in the area at the time.

    At the inquest into the deaths three RUC members made statements saying they were on patrol in the area just before the two men were killed and were themselves stopped by armed men who spoke to them “with Ulster accents”.

    “These RUC men put the UDR patrol in the area at about 11.45pm on Sunday night and at about quarter past midnight the bodies were found. The time of death was put at about midnight”, says Sean McCartney. He continued: “There has never been an adequate investigation into the deaths of the two men. As far as I am concerned it was brushed under the carpet.” *

    I think the mentioned UDR terrorist, Robert McConnell, is the same one eulogised by Wullie Frazier and FAIR.

    Finbarr, note this whataboutery doesn’t need to include the tabloid element that you are so fond of.

  • Turgon

    Anonymous,

    I do not see much disgraceful in Finbarr’s comments. They are pretty factual. Yes talking about someone being shot 30 times or dying in their own blood and vomit is pretty horrible but that is how people die when they are murdered. People do not die the way they do in movies, not even in the likes of Saving Private Ryan even that is too sanitised.

    I do not know about Jimmy Graham and can make no comment on it; but my wife’s family knew Douglas Derring and his family well and what Finbarr has posted is exactly correct.

    You may not regard what happened in Fermanagh especially South Fermanagh as ethnic cleansing but most Fermanagh protestants I know do regard it as exactly that.

  • Finbarr

    Anonymous

    You keep saying that my comments regarding the time Jimmy Graham arrived at the school is a disgrace / pathetic etc. Why? Because it’s true?

    When Jimmy’s brother (Ronnie) was murdered in 1981, a boy was convicted of the murder – he was 13 at the time of the killing and had hid the guns after the murder took place. The boy had been recruited into the junior wing of the IRA by a teacher at his school.

    Like it or not, and maybe it doesn’t fit comfortably with your outlook on the troubles, but in rural areas, including in parts of Fermanagh, the IRA had agents who passed on information to them about their Protestant neighbours – you could call it setting up people for murder. They may not have been fully fledged members of the IRA but they certainly played an essential role in IRA activities.

    The current Republican mission of rewriting the history of the troubles will not succeed.

  • Turgon

    Finbarr,

    Clearly your telling the truth was so “disgraceful” and “pathetic” that anonymous had to retreat to bed.

  • Turgon “Yes talking about someone being shot 30 times or dying in their own blood and vomit is pretty horrible but…”
    ok, noted; tabloid reporting w blood, guts and gory seems acceptable – Fealty doesn’t seem to have objected.

    “…but most Fermanagh protestants I know do regard it as exactly that.”

    I looked at the numbers and I disagree. You haven’t commented on the number or percentages but want to continue with your opinions – so be it.

    Finbarr, if you consider unsubstantiated claims about someone without mention of them even being questioned by the cops but based on local Protestant rumour, as reasonable then that’s your prerogative. But the same rules should apply?

    Now let me review APRN to see what they say is true about people in Fermanagh being killed… anything goes, right ?

  • Turgon

    Anonymous,
    You “diasgree” that what happened in Fermanagh was ethnic cleansing. I merely inform you that those Fermanagh protestants I know do regard it as such. That is their perception.

    To take one case: why was Douglas Derring murdered. Can you find a way to describe that as a nonsectarian murder?

  • My postings were a review of the numbers and percentage of the killings in Ferm and how they can’t be described as enthnic cleansing or sectarian in general eg. most of those listed in the 50% of the total killed, were security forces. The one you described is probably sectarian. This doesn’t take away from the fact that most killed in Ferm were security forces.

    Remember I posted “Please don’t think that this is an attempt to justify the killings” and I feel that some of the posts directed at me, without reviewing the statistics, are just looking for me to justify killings in Fermanagh – I don’t and won’t.

  • Turgon

    Anonymous,

    Okay I entriely accept your rejection of the killings in Fermanagh.

    Remember that really very large numbers of Fermanagh protestants were in or connected to things like the UDR even if only briefly and many of them were murdered long after leaving.

    Again perception is all important. It is the perception in South Fermanagh that there was ethnic cleansing. The CAIN ststs etc. do not record (and I am sure there can be no record of) intimidation and that along with the mrurders may well have helped create a fear of ethnic cleansing which itself would drive people out.

  • willowfield

    wrong, the BSpecials / UDR was formed to enforce (bully) the Protestant parliament for a Protestant people.

    The UDR was established specifically to replace the B-Specials and to recruit on a cross-community basis. It initially had 18% RC membership.

  • willowfield

    They were the thugs in uniform to intimidate and terrorise the nationalist population.

    They weren’t: that’s just your prejudice and desperation to justify PIRA murders.

    By your rationale the catholic make up of the IRA effective means that the British Army, killing IRA, members, was / is effectively sectarian… I must let me MEP know and see can we charge them in The Hague court – rubbish.

    Charge them with what in the Hague court? The Army’s killings of PIRA members were mostly lawful.

    Officially by the official report from your Gov back “as early as 1973”…. You’ll note that the UDR were interconnected with the RUC and UVF thro’out…
    http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/details_on_that_udr_and_collusion_story/
    you must accept this official report… it’s not like HMG would lie now would they !?!?

    5-15% infiltration in one year is not what you claim. You’re deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

  • Finbarr

    Anonymous,

    The teacher of the primary school where Jimmy Graham was killed said in a TV interview on the day of the murder that he had asked him to turn up 5 minutes early. It is not ‘local Protestant rumour’.

    When I have time I will analyse the Fermanagh murders during the ‘troubles’ comprehensively.

  • Good man Turg, we’re getting there (but you didn’t answer many of my questions).

    “…and desperation to justify PIRA murders”

    Wrong. I’ve never justified any killing but you choose to assume that because I post the facts about the UDR being a bunch of thugs then I’ve automatically got to be a IRA supporter. As I’ve posted many times to this site… “I’m not sure what I am (NI pigeonhole etc) but I very damned sure I know what I’m not”. In this case… I’m not someone who assumes that the UDR is an honourable grouping in the NI conflict just because they have a Brit Army uniform. You’ll also note that the Brit Army spent least on the UDR for equipment – they never cared about your Love of Queen and Their Country!

    “The Army’s killings of PIRA members were mostly lawful”.

    I guess the whole ‘sauce for the goose’ doesn’t work in this case. What are you smoking Willow? UDR members get killed and it’s ethnic cleansing of Protestant while IRA members get killed and it can’t be described similarly as ethnic cleansing of Catholics by the Ustascheeerrrr I mean the British Army SSeerrr SAS.

    Can anyone answer “Is a hypocrite in NI the same as a bigot“ ? Case in point Willowfield.

    “5-15% infiltration in one year is not what you claim. You’re deliberately misrepresenting the facts. “

    no I’m not, but hey, let try this; ok then maestro, then what are the facts of that report? Shock me into reading the report again and see that the UDR were a well trained (not half drunk), cross community, civic minded battalion for the benefit of ALL RESIDENTS of NI.

    Finbarr, “…day of the murder that he had asked him to turn up 5 minutes early. It is not ‘local Protestant rumour’”.

    Don’t bother. I’m not doubting that the headmaster did ask him to arrive early. I’m saying that it’s a disgrace and sign of your sick mindset that someone being asked to turn up early implicates the asker in the dead person’s killing. I’ve asked my staff to come to work a bit earlier. If killed in the commute or on arriving, does that make me guilty of aiding and abetting their murder!!!?? Don’t bother replying to this either it’s rhetorical. You need help, seriously.

  • Turgon

    Anonymous,

    I said before that I am not fully aware of the surrondings of the Jimmy Graham’s murder but surely you accept that the easiest way to murder a man driving a bus is to do it when he is stationary in said bus for a predicatable period of time.

    You said your following was rhetorical but it is worth answering
    “I’ve asked my staff to come to work a bit earlier. If killed in the commute or on arriving, does that make me guilty of aiding and abetting their murder!!!??”

    If hypothetically you asked your staff to arrive early and on arriving on that day they were murdered by people the police might take some interest in why you had asked the person to turn up early. There may well be a good explanation but that does not make it an unreasonable question.

  • The easiest way might be when he turns up at the bus depot in the morning or when his shift is finished. Or when he returns home from work in the eveng or on his way home from the pub some evening or lastly anywhere and anyhow as there’s infinite possibilities. Finbarr seems to think there’s only one way and the teacher is involved (you seem to be following that line too) – therefore PERCEPTION becomes cause and action!?!?

    Didn’t perception lead to the internment disaster… “fcuk it, they’re guilty, lock’em all up” and the IRA’s best recruitment phase.

    “There may well be a good explanation but that does not make it an unreasonable question. ”

    there possibly (probably) is a non criminal explaination else the cops would have made arrests. However, so many years after the killing, after police investig etc, an ugly rumour is being brandied about.

    More importantly the enviroment… Finbarr in broadcasting an ugly rumour in a toubled society where people get killed, attacked, interned or shunned etc. based on UNSUBSTANIATED PERCEPTIONS.

  • willowfield

    anonymous

    Wrong. I’ve never justified any killing but you choose to assume that because I post the facts about the UDR being a bunch of thugs then I’ve automatically got to be a IRA supporter.

    But you don’t post facts: merely prejudice.

    I guess the whole ‘sauce for the goose’ doesn’t work in this case. What are you smoking Willow? UDR members get killed and it’s ethnic cleansing of Protestant while IRA members get killed and it can’t be described similarly as ethnic cleansing of Catholics by the Ustascheeerrrr I mean the British Army SSeerrr SAS.

    Your comment makes no sense. I merely stated that most Army killings were lawful: that is correct. If you wish to dispute it, you are free to do so.

    no I’m not, but hey, let try this; ok then maestro, then what are the facts of that report?

    I already stated the facts: an estimate of 5-15% inflitration in one year (1973). The report doesn’t deal with subsequent years, and we know that recruitment was tightened as a result.

  • Controls? things were tighened and cleared up so much that we’d the Glenanne Gang killings thro’out N Armagh to the Dub Monaghan bombings right up until the proud UDR/RIR cadre killed the two friends in Poyntzpass.!?!?

    Yeah that really sorted out the problems… good job (for the sake of the honour of the BA) they only reviewed one year and issued one report.

    The UDR were part of the problem as were the RUC and the courts. You can’t accept this and the systematic and complete corruption of the regimment was just a ‘few bad apples’ to quote the unioinist politicos / apoligists for these murderers.

  • Finbarr

    Anonymous,

    Don’t you realise that for every person murdered in the style of Jimmy Graham, there are several more people involved in such killings. There will be IRA men and sympathisers scouting the roads to ensure there are no checkpoints. There’ll be the safe house after the event. Someone will dispose of the guns used. And there’ll also be others helping out.

    I’ve never once said the headmaster was involved. Merely pointed out ‘A FACT’ which required investigation. The gentleman is dead a long time, 22 years, so I doubt anybody would threaten him unless from beyond the grave!

    As for Jimmy Graham, his house was under constant guard from the SAS, he kept the bus at his home so didn’t require to pick it up at the depot in the morning. He was killed in Derrylin because he received no SAS guard there (for some bizarre reason as it’s not exactly a Unionist heartland) and was in an area close to the border where IRA sympathisers wouldn’t have been in short supply.

    Just like his brother Cecil Graham, who was killed in Donagh – the most hardline Republican area in all of Fermanagh – the IRA struck when he would be a soft target. Republicans rarely murdered Protestants in Unionist areas in Fermanagh as it would be much more difficult to carry out such a deed and escape; there was always the danger for them of a neighbour who was in the security forces returning fire, and they did not have any sympathisers and agents in such areas to feed them the required information.