A little problem with Brown’s Maginot Line?

Mark Devenport throws up a question that should be of interest both to Gordon Brown and to his Tory party opponents. If Britain is to have a new Border Guard force, where exactly is the border?Our north/south border is virtually non existent, as is the east west. This would leave Brown with something like an Maginot Line , in which Britain’s coast, ports and airports are heavily defended, whilst leaving the Republic’s lighter security and tiny navy to guard it’s ‘western approaches’ against drug traders, terrorism, and human trafficking.

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  • smcgiff

    I agree, Mick. Much more feasible for the UK to pull back to Britain and therefore have no land border.

  • Rory

    Is an invasion by hostile foreign forces imminent? Nobody has told us anything about this in Tottenham. Typical! Always the bloody last to know.

    Who’s about to invade anyway? Is it the Yanks? They seem to like that sort of thing these days.

  • Cruimh

    The joys of diplomacy. Lots of pretences have to be kept up so that the sensitivities of the Govt and people of the Republic In Ireland can be protected from harsh reality. The protective umbrella of the UK extends across the British Isles. We saw that confirmed in Dáil when the question of Ireland’s vulnerability to a 9/11 attack was raised. The answer was that the RAF was there for the RII. And you can bet your bottom dollar thatthe RN is babysitting the RII Navy.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    The occupied territories moved from being strategically important – as during WW2 – to being a strategic weakness.

    Perhaps that big MI5 building is there for this reason? Still have not seen convincing explanation for its location.

  • Cruimh

    “Still have not seen convincing explanation for its location.”

    It would be better in Dublin, but as pointed out, it would be far too embarrassing.

  • smcgiff

    ‘It would be better in Dublin, but as pointed out, it would be far too embarrassing.

    Because they couldn’t afford the property prices?

  • “And you can bet your bottom dollar thatthe RN is babysitting the RII Navy.”

    With what Cruimh? Half the RN is tied up at dock or scrapped because of Broon’s budget hatchet. The Naval Service, small as it is, is at least modernising its fleet to cope with a massive territorial water area.

  • Rory

    I’m still no clearer who it is we are supposed to be protecting ourselves from. Does anyone know? Would they please tell me?

  • big jock knew

    Black Pigs dyke would be a good place to set up a border. Ulster wants it’s land back!

  • heck

    Cruimh
    “We saw that confirmed in Dáil when the question of Ireland’s vulnerability to a 9/11 attack was raised”

    What a load of BS. The reason the US was attacked and the reason for the bombings in London is because of British and US policy (right or wrong!) in the Middle East. The best way for Ireland to protect itself from a 9/11 attack is to maintain its neutrality and have nothing to do with British and US Middle East policy.

    Unless you are one of those idiots who believe Neocon labour propaganda that it was because they want to “enslave our women” and meet 16 virgins your comments are nonsense.

  • Cruimh

    heck – it might be dreadfully embarrassing for you but it is a reality. The RII shelters uder the UK’s umbrella which extends right over the British isles. The question WAS asked and the answer WAS that the RAF was providing cover.

    Mark – it might be under pressure but it’s still there 🙂

  • DC

    “Who’s about to invade anyway? Is it the Yanks?”

    That’s the reason why wars are created – to teach Americans geography.

  • Cruimh

    “I’m still no clearer who it is we are supposed to be protecting ourselves from.”

    There’s one group in Ireland whose hatred of all things anglo-American equals that of the Osamites!

    The gaelgoiri 😉

  • Heck were are not neutral.

    Shannon is a major cog in the US war machine.

    The Jihadi dont see us as neutral and they are correct in that view imho

  • Phil – the important bit is that the communities that would shelter jihadis are not willing to do so, not out of fear of reprisal but out of their fellow citizens realisation that pre-emptive oppression of them will not merely open doors to immigrant insurgents but develop home-grown ones. Of all nations Ireland must surely be acutely aware of the conditions which give rise to and sustain guerrilla warfare.

  • Aquifer

    “I’m still no clearer who it is we are supposed to be protecting ourselves from. Does anyone know? Would they please tell me?”

    Columbian Cocaine gangs and arms importers, violent and oppressive religious or political cults maybe?

    Liberal states don’t tend to have the means of persuasion open to parapolitical gangsters, so must defend their citizen’s freedoms and prevent violent criminal attacks by other means.

    At the risk of upsetting my Unionist brethren. UK statistics have now become GB only statistics, showing just how integral we are to their concerns. NI is out of the picture, aside from the CCTV at British ports and airports that is.

  • Aquifer

    Mark

    Maybe communities do not shelter jihadis because that would initiate a conflict where the communities lose most of what they have, and end up themselves scattered and oppressed by raving testerone fuelled teenage gangsters. Maybe immigrant communities have some wit.

  • inuit_g

    Not so sure about the ‘light’ security along the border – granted I’m always left free to pass unmolested when travelling from south to north –

    but oftentimes on the bus going south, no sooner has the bus crossed the border but it’s stopped by a bunch of gormless Guardia Civil who get on board and check the ID of anyone not suitable ‘Irish-looking’ on the bus – i.e. anyone with a darker skin or Chinese.

    Last time I went down I had no id whatsoever on me, I could have been just off the plane from Moldova for all the Garda knew – but hey, “he’s White so he’s Alright” in their view – Chinese guy sitting next to me (an Irish citizen) was asked for his passport but I was passed over.

    Just like on the Greyhound in New Mexico it was only the “different” lookin’ people who got asked for ID.

    Disgusting.

  • inuit_g – from what I hear you’d like El Al security – *everybody* gets a hard time although they do profile and make no apologies for it.

    That includes pregnant Irish girls:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Mary_Murphy

  • cynic

    “I’m still no clearer who it is we are supposed to be protecting ourselves from. Does anyone know? Would they please tell me?”

    Sleep on then. The problem with these militant cells is that they are just that. Religously militant. Blow up a nightclub? Yeah. Why? because its decadent, against Islam and full of whores (as they see it). An aircraft? Why not – most of them are unbelievers.

    Ah but they are Irish and neutral! Ah yes, mostly catholics and unbelievers and therefore good targets!

    We need to recognise that while these groups are not representative of Islam as a whole, they are motivated by race / religous hate as much as anything. They want to attack and kill people because of what the victims believe or the lifestyle they lead. Politics is only a part of it.

    Sound familiar?

  • inuit_g

    Mark I’d have less problem with a “tough time for everybody” than I do with the public servants of a state which supposedly pledges to “cherish all its children equally” profiling on the basis of race and appearance.

    But then that’s the guards for ya… they need a very heavy dose of what was needed to create the PSNI.

  • Aquifer

    Profiling on the basis of probability of offending means more efficient policing and thus lower taxes for a given amount of overall freedom, though obviously targetting one group or excusing another could completely unravel the consent needed for policing to work at all.

  • Harry Flashman

    **What a load of BS. The reason the US was attacked and the reason for the bombings in London is because of British and US policy (right or wrong!) in the Middle East.**

    Absolutely spot on, there was no Islamic terrorism in the world prior to the election of George Bush, peaceful as lambs they were, then those warmongers Bush and Blair got them all riled up.

    And as for the Islamic terrorist attacks in Nigeria, Thailand, Egypt, India, Philippines, Kenya, Pakistan, Jordan, Indonesia, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Morocco, France, Tunisia, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain etc well they’re all the fault of Britain and America too.

    S’obvious innit?

  • mnob

    Getting back to the original point ROI/UK border protection isnt virtually non existent – it is non existent. Its called the Common Travel Area and its worked well up until now. Therefore I cant quite see the point of this article.

  • Rory

    So now all I learn in answer to my puzzlement is that people are fearful of attacks from Islamist cells within country and that no invasion is threatened. How then can the RAF or the Royal Navy possibly help to reduce the likieliehood of such attacks with our borders? They weren’t much use during our recent little local difficulties.

    Perhaps if the floods continue apace we can have RN gunboats patrolling every high street. Would that help do you think?

    I’ve cancelled my emergency order for canned foods and whiskey and will continue to behave as normal – outrageously that is.

  • Mick Fealty

    Why not put the other ear trumpet in Rory! 🙂

  • Martin

    The link to the relevant Dail debate is here. The Minister neither confirmed or denied that arrangements were in place with the RAF. Which, in the circumstances, is probably the right thing to say…

    So I think this debate strays a little far into thge hypothetical…

  • Martin
  • Fraggle

    Harry…”Absolutely spot on, there was no Islamic terrorism in the world prior to the election of George Bush, peaceful as lambs they were, then those warmongers Bush and Blair got them all riled up.”

    and USA foreign policy in the middle east began with dubya did it?

  • Cruimh

    Martin – link still error 53