Something positive about the Orange…?

It is striking just how routinely ‘ungenerous’ many of our nationalist commenters are towards the Orange Order. Understandable to a degree, perhaps, since individuals have personal histories that may give them much justification for letting loose with such animus. However Mairtin promises to lead the way by trying to find three positive things to say about the Orange for an upcoming radio piece, in order to “encourage the green to embrace the orange”.If it is not good for the soul, it would certainly be good for future of civil argument, ala AC Grayling (for the sake of those who missed it before):

In debates that crucially affect the wellbeing of the world, ideas and beliefs should be open to tough challenge and hard discussion. Let someone state a view, and let the view be subjected to rigorous scrutiny, no holds barred, and no pleas of offence, hurt feelings, self-proclaimed sensitivities, “sacredness” or any other excuse allowed to stand in the way. But with a strictly governed exception, namely, an office-holder speaking ex-officio, let no individual be the target of attack, and even then neither abuse nor ad hominem attack.

There is no excuse for ill manners and insults, though of course there is an explanation: usually, the impotence and weakness of the insulter and his or her case. Insult an idea or an institution, by all means, if you have serious grounds to do so; but not individuals: that is the bottom line.

PS, I’d prefer to hold people to Grayling than the more prescriptive ‘three nice things’ scenario in this thread, if that is not too unrealistic an expectation?

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  • Sean

    I think willowfield thinks it would be best if those nasty taigs f*cked off back where they come fro…….. oh wait never mind

  • willowfield


    And uglier still when on e community is cleaving to a deliberately divisive celebrations, such as were celebrated on the twelfth, but I don’t see too much actually being done about that one. Hell, the run up to the twelfth is seemingly incomplete without the celebration of young master McIlveen’s murder at some bonfires.

    Nice attempt at diversion, but we’ve already established that the Twelfth is not an inclusive event: it is a self-defined exclusive event. St Patrick’s Day on the other hand is an inclusive day for ALL. Are you arguing that because Protestants have their own celebration on the Twelfth that St Patrick’s Day should be hijacked by Roman Catholics and Protestants be excluded? That, too, is ugly and repulsive.

    Back to St. Patrick’s day… Who are you (or anyone else) to decree what is a “proper” way to celebrate St. Patrick’s Day? Who are you to say what flags may be flown and what colors the children may br dressed in?

    I am an Irishman. I have as much right to an opinion as you or any other Irishman or woman. I also have as much right to be included in the celebration as any other Irishman or woman. I have the right to protest when others seek to exclude me on the grounds of political opinion, ethnicity or identity.

    It sounds to me like you’re setting a double-standard—one community gets its divisive “cultural” event, whilst another must surrender portions of its identity on the altar of political correctness.

    So you admit that you believe that St Patrick’s Day belongs to “one community”. I find that a sad, ugly and horrible view.

    So you would rather some bland, homogenized faux-celebration?


    Would you find the same treatment of the twelfth to be meet and just—no bonfires, no cultural breast-beating, just bland, homogenized family fun?

    Irrelevant question, since the Twelfth is not an inclusive event.

    You cannot force these things—they will happen in their own time (or not) as the two communities will. Forcing a dumbed-downed [sic] event will only encourage one side and breed resentment on the other.

    I don’t wish to “force” a “dumbed-down event” – I just call for political and exclusive trappings to be removed so that ALL can participate and enjoy – not just those from the “republican” community.