Birthday honours

Just had a quick scan of the Birthday Honours list (pdf). Several names from Northern Ireland appear including DUP Armagh Councillor Heather Black. The Orange Order’s director of services, David Hume, also picks up an MBE.

  • frank

    ‘The Orange Order’s director of services, David Hume, also picks up an MBE;

    Perhaps he could dedicate it to the victims of the Shankill Butchers/orange order members ‘Basher’ Bates & Eddie McIlwaine.

    Or the victims of uda commander and orange order member Davy Payne.

    Or to the victims of uvf killers & orange order members Aubrey Reid, Noel Shaw, Brian Robinson, John Gregg,Geoffrey Freeman or John Bingham.

    From the Rev Brian Kennaway

    The bannerette of Old Boyne Island Heroes LOL 633, bearing the likeness of Brian Robinson and the inscription “LATE BRO. B. ROBINSON UVF. KILLED 2nd SEPTEMBER 1989″, was clearly visible towards the beginning of the parade, and many of the accompanying bands were alleged to be paramilitary bands with direct connections to the UVF and the UDA.

    Why not ask David Hume about the Sons of Ulster LOL 759 Shankill Rd No9 Dist or Queen Victoria LOL 700 Clifton st No3 Dist who have no problems hiring and being led by a band that is named after convicted uvf murderer Noel Kinner.

    Or why they are happy to march behind a banner in memory of UFF man Gary `Lofty’ Lynch in Derry.

    Perhaps ask Mr Hume about Dawson Baillie’s remarks after he defended the right of orange order members attending a commemoration to uvf killer Brian Robinson. “The Orange Order is a very broad church and it’s not my responsibility to say to people they can’t be members of various organisations,”

    Senior orangeman Billy Mahwinney had no problems justifying the violence of loyalist paramilitaries when said that the loyalist paramilitaries were an integral part of the unionist community ‘are’ the protectors of the community.

    Perhaps Mr Hume will speak to Deputy Grand Master of Belfast, McMordie who said in july 05

    “They are on our side(uvf/uda) and continue to defend the orange orders refusal to talk to residents”

    Maybe the uvf or uda would be better accepting the award on behalf of the loyalist marching orders.

    Rewarding hate filled organisations with honours is a complete joke.

    Maybe Mr Hume might have a mention for the families who’s loved ones were murdered by orange order members.

    Maybe a wee recognition of the sorrow for the parents of 16 year old James Morgan or the countless others slaughtered by members of the marching orders.

    An MBE in honour of mass murderers

  • Cruimh

    Frank – they should link your response

    “The knee jerk has been so often tested and become so familiar that it has given rise to the adjective “knee-jerk” as in a knee-jerk reaction. Knee-jerk in this figurative sense means “readily predictable to the point of being automatic.” It often has a negative connotation and conveys the idea of an all-too-hasty, impulsive, irrational response based on a preset idea. For example, a dictator’s knee-jerk response to a democratic movement is to suppress it.”

    http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4116

  • páid

    Sometimes I feel like saying to my countrymen – our flag is green, white, and orange. We know the white is for peace, and we understand forty shades of green, but as for the orange….

    Do we really understand it, or is it a unity prop, a cliché?

    Do we appreciate the history, the values, the culture?

    Or does it just look good as a colourful counterpoint to the verde?

  • curious

    [b]’ Several names from Northern Ireland appear including DUP Armagh Councillor Heather Black. The Orange Order’s director of services, David Hume, also picks up an MBE.[/b]

    Most recipients of the Queens birthday honours are to members of the civil service (CIVIL LIST) for both long service to the crown and citizens of the UK cross community.

    New regulations recently approved by westminister lets the general public nominate individual recipients for awards.

    Although some of these awards may seem normal on mainland UK the three MBE awards listed below to Northern Ireland citizens could be seen as divisive, sectarian or even rasist as they are not awarded for cross community service.

    Any UK citizen who does not approve of any award can complain to Mr Denis Brennan ( secretary of the awards committee)

    denis.brennan@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk

    No1) Dr David Thomas HUME For services to the community in
    Ballycarry and Larne, Northern Ireland. (Larne, Antrim)

    No2) Margaret Heather, Mrs BLACK Councillor, Armagh City Council. For services to Local Government in Northern Ireland. (Craigavon, Armagh)

    No3) Ms Hui YANG For services to the Chinese community
    in Northern Ireland. (Newtownabbey, Antrim)

  • foreign correspondent

    I wish the Establishment would offer me an MBE o I could enjoy the petty and mean-minded thrill of turning it down. But they won´t, so I can´t. Ah well.

  • curious

    [b]I wish the Establishment would offer me an MBE o I could enjoy the petty and mean-minded thrill of turning it down. But they won´t, so I can´t. Ah well.[/b]

    Only Ireland, Sweden and China do not award their citizens awards for service to the community probably because their governments are to mean spirited to spend any money on their citizens.

    Some people do turn honours down. Personnaly I do not like the word empire in awards such as KBE, CBE, OBE or MBE. UK does not have an Empire anymore and I consider the use of the word empire in these awards condecending and ancohronistic.

    However talk to any Greek, Persian, Egyptian or someone from Rome and they are proud of their countries history and empires.

  • foreign correspondent

    Maybe Ireland, Sweden and China just think these awards are a load of rubbish, Curious? I know I do.

  • curious

    [b]Maybe Ireland, Sweden and China just think these awards are a load of rubbish, Curious? I know I do.[/b]

    foreign correspondent

    So the US, Russia and all other countries in the world except the three mentioned are also a load of rubbish, or are you like the soldier on parade who’s mummy says ” look our wee Paddy is marching in step and all the rest of silly Brits are out of step.”?

  • joeCanuck

    Another “Bah” here.
    Imagine being upset because some people are praised for their contribution to community life.

  • mickhall

    However talk to any Greek, Persian, Egyptian or someone from Rome and they are proud of their countries history and empires.

    Posted by curious

    Could it be because the empires you mention were in the dim and distant past, apart for the odd ruin there is very little to remind people of the suffering these, like those european empires within the 19-20th centuries caused. After all an empire is nothing more than a rich and powerful nation giving legal justification to rape murder and theft.

    regards

  • curious

    [b]After all an empire is nothing more than a rich and powerful nation giving legal justification to rape murder and theft.[/b]

    All one needs to do to experience rape murder and theft is to have lived in Northern ireland under the fear of republican IRA terroist violence over the past 35 years

  • My_wee_dog

    Yes curious, the IRA raped, murdered and stole my dog.

    Those goddam rapist murdering thiefs.

    And they ate my baby too.

  • Harry Flashman

    The Communist Russian empire built a great big wall, sowed minefields along it, and also built searchlights and machine gun posts. Why? Was it to prevent hundreds of thousands of downtrodden capitalists from the west fleeing the barbarity of democratic life in order to escape to the workers’ paradise of East Germany? Even to pose the question is to show it for its absurdity.

    Curiously the last substantial outpost of the British Empire, Hong Kong, also had a security fence manned by Gurkhas. And what was their job? It was to keep out millions of refugees from Communist China’s socialist paradise who wished to escape into the depravity of free market, Imperial Hong Kong.

    Always bear that in mind when you hear Marxists telling you how bad the British Empire was.

  • curious

    [i]”I wish the Establishment would offer me an MBE o I could enjoy the petty and mean-minded thrill of turning it down.”[/i]

    You could always swop it in Tesco’s for extra green points, MBE awards are a dime a dozen today. in 6 mts time another bunch of these gongs will be dished out in the New Year honours.

  • Fraggle

    Mickhall, you forgot slavery and drug-trafficking. Harry Flashman, how did Briain end up controlling Hong Kong?

    The Opium Wars truely were glorious episodes in the history of the british empire that those who accept these awards can be proud of.

  • joeCanuck

    bah

  • Cahal

    Jesus, we now have people defending British imperialism on the basis that it wasn’t as bad as Russian and Chinese communism.

    In the greater scheme of things the Brits probably held their own in terms of dishing out the aul’ tyranny. But we’ll call it a draw then to avoid an arguement…..

  • curious

    [i]”Jesus, we now have people defending British imperialism on the basis that it wasn’t as bad as Russian and Chinese communism.”[/i]

    Cahal, The Irish were the largest group of people who helped defend British Imperialism especially in 19 century India

    [B]IRISH SOLDIERS IN INDIA[/B]

    “India was the great prize of a Gaelic-speaking army recruited by the East India Company exclusively in Ireland under Irish generals” was, no doubt, grossly exaggerated: but it did contain a modicum of fact, for Irish soldiers and Irish generals had made (and continued to make) a disproportionate contrbution to the ‘steel frame’ around which the Raj was built.
    http://members.lycos.co.uk/hohenloh/east/index.htm

  • mickhall

    All one needs to do to experience rape murder and theft is to have lived in Northern ireland under the fear of republican IRA terroist violence over the past 35 years

    Posted by curious

    curious,

    You rather prove my point as the north of ireland is a left over of the British empire, as to for example is Palestine, Sri Lanka, Iraq and a number of other conflict zones.

    Harry,

    Try and use arguments to defeat those you disagree with, to simply cry marxist may be OK for Fox News and the neo-cons, but it hardly enlightens the debate here at slugger.

    If was no mere personality class that amongst the first people Stalin had murdered where Marxists and old Bolsheviks, for he new only to well that they would be at the forefront in opposing his nonsensical idea that it was possibly to build socialism in a single state.

    Since you mentioned Marx and I write as a left wing political opponent of Marxist Leninism, I would recommend a first rate piece by Christopher Hitchens in yesterdays Guardian. Whilst appalled at Chris stance over Iraqi occupation by the US etc, he still has a very fine pen. The piece can be found here,

    http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/classics/story/0,,2104005,00.html

  • Harry Flashman

    *Try and use arguments to defeat those you disagree with*

    That’s funny I thought I did so, I showed that for all its so-called awfulness the British Empire seemed to be quite popular with those who had the opportunity to get into it and the millions of British citizens of African, West Indian, Pakistani and Indian origin who now live happily in the UK seem to prove that living under British rule ain’t all that bad.

    It’s always nice to pretend that the Soviet Union wasn’t Marxist and that the Left was always opposed to it but prior to 1989 most Marxists and Socialists I knew believed it was a superior system to western democracy and no amount of airbrushing the past is going to change that.

    But just so’s we’re all clear on this Mickhall can you actually point to a system of government that called or calls itself Marxist/Socialist/Communist that is or was superior to liberal western democracy? Cuba? North Korea? Venezuela? China? Zimbabwe?

  • mickhall

    Harry

    First let us get you last question out of the way, I have made clear on slugger a number of times that liberal bourgeois democracy for all its fault is the best system of government human kind has come up with to date.

    However human kind does not progress by sitting back smugly believing nowt can be improved upon. People push the boundaries of the envelope in the hope of improving things FOR ALL. The beauty of a true democracy is that when some of the ideas we come up with might not be to smart, others can point this out etc and thus humanity moves forward.

    Now I would say the democratic system that operates in some states is better than in others. The USA and Putin’s Russia for example or the UK and the Scandinavian countries. But that is because human kind does not move forward at one speed etc. There is another vital point, if people like me do not challenge and fight against those with power, they will quickly slip back into old and failed ways, which is something we have seen in the USA, UK and possible are about to in France.

    What I am saying is every gain humanity makes has to be tenaciously defended, as if it is worth while, those with wealth and influence will correctly see it is against their best interest and try and remove it from the statute book etc by turning the clock back.

    As to your sneer at leftist who opposed the Stalinism in the USSR, you are coming from an ignorant and prejudiced viewpoint as I doubt you know much about those comrades and the sacrifices many of them made. The fact your political prejudice gets the better of your common sense is highlighted by your attempt to link Venezuela with Stalinist China; and why you would add Zimbabwe is beyond me as it is a nasty little state capitalist dictatorship which has nothing to do with socialism, though you appear to be gullible enough to believe it does as the muderous crooks Mugabe and Bush said so..

    Let me ask you a few questions, did you protest at the crushing of the Prague Spring, did you go along to your nearest Chinese embassy/consulate and protest at the massacres in Tiananmen Square, When Mr Mugabe, in the 1990s [and later] visited the country you live in, did you join any pickets to protest at the way he treated gays and others. Thought not, it was left to people like myself and thousands of other socialists around the world, whilst those politicians and business people you admire happily traded with these dictatorships; and in the process made money off the backs of the people these satraps oppressed.

    As to your linking newcomers to the UK with the British empire, I fail to understand the point your are making, as these days very few of them come from countries which years ago fell into that category.

    As to giving house points to governments, whether socialist or otherwise, I must decline. As I believe all governments are bad, it is just that some are not as bad as others. I would like to believe if a socialist government came into being where I was living, I would continue to snap at its heels ever watchful; and questioning all they do to doubt and I will tell you why. For on taking office, I fear people like you Harry would immediately support them 😉

  • Cahal

    “Cahal, The Irish were the largest group of people who helped defend British Imperialism especially in 19 century India”

    Yes, there was and still are a huge number of Irishmen willing to die for England. UDR, RIR, etc.

    What can I say? I imagine the Scots are worse.

  • kensei

    “That’s funny I thought I did so, I showed that for all its so-called awfulness the British Empire seemed to be quite popular with those who had the opportunity to get into it”

    Really, because a load of Nations just happened to rebel to get out of it. Mostly the ones where the British killed or starved a lot of people. I could of course mention the Irish famine, but really that was only a test run for what they did in India.

    The British Empire was not as bad as Nazism or Communism. You must be so proud.

    “and the millions of British citizens of African, West Indian, Pakistani and Indian origin who now live happily in the UK seem to prove that living under British rule ain’t all that bad.”

    Which proves absolutely nothing about the British Empire.

  • Harry Flashman

    My oh my such a huge number of people who proclaim to despise Communism, now how come I never heard them throughout my college days?

    Everyone on the Left in those days assured me that Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher were devils incarnate whilst people in the USSR lived simple but happier lives with zero unemployment, fantastic healthcare and a marvellous education system. No that’s right there was one looney from the Trotskyite fringe, I think (and yes Mickhall you’re correct, I don’t immerse myself in the tedious tortology of the Left’s microculture, I have a life you see), he certainly condemned the Soviet Union, to him the USSR had abandoned all ideological purity, no only Kim Il Sung’s North Korea or Enver Hoxha’s Albania would do for him!

    Funnily enough exactly the same sort of thing the Left still say about Cuba. When the Marxist thugs of the Castro brotherhood finally expire and the true shocking state of Cuba is exposed to the world along with the appalling brutality that enforced it for half a century, will we be seeing the same volte faces and will we hear how the Left really opposed Castro’s butchery and repression all along?

    As to protesting, well like I say I have a life, and if standing outside foreign embassies handing out Socialist Worker’s leaflets ever changed anything we’d all be in the Nirvana of a People’s Republic by now. Just for the record though, I was too young for Prague and I never liked Chinese Communists (and since they adopted market policies to finance their oppression I have liked them even less) and no I can’t say that Robert Mugabe, the SOCIALIST president of Zimbabwe, ever appealed to me. The sort of person who believes in redistributing other people’s property never does appeal to me, but I remember when he was very popular among the Left, you might be suffering from amnesia on that point but I’m not.

  • mickhall

    My oh my such a huge number of people who proclaim to despise Communism, now how come I never heard them throughout my college days?

    Harry,

    I realize you are having fun, but here you go again, when did I or any socialist on this thread write that we despise communism. Indeed I went out of my way to point out that I never regarded the USSR as a communist State, by pointing out the impossibility of building a communist State in a single country. Which was in direct opposition to the whole bases of Stalinist theory once he rejected the core internationalist component of Marxist and libertarian socialism..

    Whilst the SWP represents a legit political current, I can assure you I respect my fellow human beings far to much to push one of that Parties wares into their hands.

    The problem with your politics [imo] Harry is you are stuck in a cold war time warp, and seem to be pre-programmed to view socialism as a single homogenous block of wretched stalinism. Whereas in reality, just like the mass of political parties that enthusiastically support capitalism, it is a host of individuals, differing factions, parties and organizations.

    Best regards

    Mick

  • Harry Flashman

    *Whereas in reality, just like the mass of political parties that enthusiastically support capitalism, it is a host of individuals, differing factions, parties and organizations.*

    Fair point, however I can point out dozens of nations in the world which operate along largely capitalist, free market lines and which as societies go in this world are actually rather pleasant places to live.

    However you could not point out a single country which is or was a Communist/Marxist/Socialist/People’s Republic* [*delete as appropriate] which is or was anything other than a corrupt, terroristic, shitehole of a basket case.

    Kindest regards to you too,

    Harry.

  • Cahal

    “However you could not point out a single country which is or was a Communist/Marxist/Socialist/People’s Republic* [*delete as appropriate] which is or was anything other than a corrupt, terroristic, shitehole of a basket case. ”

    I thought the north was supposed to be pretty nice these days?

  • curious

    Undies ace says knickers to MBE

    By KATY HASTINGS
    June 20, 2007

    COMMENT ON THIS STORY

    THE co-founder of sexy lingerie firm Agent Provocateur has dramatically rejected his MBE because he believes Tony Blair is “morally corrupt”
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007280559,00.html