One for the new DCAL Minister

Loyalists in Coleraine have picketed against the decision of the majority-unionist council to hold a civic reception for a local GAA club, Eoghan Rua, who progressed to the final of the All-Ireland Intermediate Club Championship. The Ulster Unionist Mayor of Coleraine, William King, condemned the protesters, whose picket forced the players to enter through a side door.
The picket highlights the continuing demonisation of the GAA within some elements in society in the north. No doubt future DCAL DUP Minister (Donaldson/Foster?) will want to be seen to build bridges with the membership of the largest sporting organisation in the north- and across the country as a whole- in the time to come, ahead of his/ her attendance at the All-Ireland Final at Croker this year, of course.

  • George

    You would think that the BBC would have the common courtesy of calling the club by its proper name rather than translating it into English. A long way to go yet.

  • Why should they not use the same language for the club as for the rest of the article and the first spoken language of their entire target audience? That’s just a mild that kind of in-your-face language fascism that makes unionists wary about the language act!

    Anyway, back on topic, do loyalists not have the right to peaceful protest? Just like the rest of us have the right to think they maybe have too much time on their hands.

  • roger

    Perhaps the bbc will send a crew to some of the loyalist estates in Coleraine tomorrow and try and get the locals to put on a Eoghan Rua jersey and then peruade a local ulster-scots speaker to sing a wee gelic tune in the lingo.

    bbcni should rename itself the Sun, tabloid pish on the box.

  • dandy

    “Anyway, back on topic, do loyalists not have the right to peaceful protest?”

    So you would be happy enough for dissident Republicans to protest at the Hilton Templepatrick when the n.i team stay there for the next game ??

  • Dr Strangelove

    What exactly were they protesting about ? The fact they were using council offices, the fact it was a GAA team, the fact they were taigs ?

  • GavBelfast

    George,

    That really is scraping the barrel for offence, no harm to you!!!

    Is the bigger story here not some credit for the Ulster Unionist Mayor, in ‘sponsoring’ the reception?

    There are aspects of the GAA that are at best hard to take for non-republicans and at worst downright offensive, the Mayor rose above this, a few oiks didn’t.

    I think the launch of the North West 200 is a bigger and better news story for the region.

  • George

    Beano,
    “Why should they not use the same language for the club as for the rest of the article and the first spoken language of their entire target audience? That’s just a mild that kind of in-your-face language fascism that makes unionists wary about the language act!”

    I can’t imagine them changing Eintracht Frankfurt to Frankfurt Harmony can you?

    More intriguingly, when the GAA club is from south of the border, like Cork’s Na Piarsaigh, the BBC doesn’t do the translation.

    Perhaps you could be so kind as to explain that for me? In a target audience/language fascism kind of way like.

  • Well since I don’t often read the GAA stories I wouldn’t be sure, but off the top of my head this was a news story, targeted at the bulk of the population, not a sport story targeted at GAA fans.

  • SuperSoupy

    Beano,

    Do you think they asked permission to hold this protest on council property? Or do these law abiding peaceful loyalists not have to accept the laws of trespass like the rest of us?

    ..but from someone that sees the angle as the name of the club not the fact people were denied direct access to a public amenity I’m not surprised.

    Should they consider themselves lucky the good old boys didn’t block the side door too?

  • SuperSoupy, someone else brought up the translation of the name of the club, I just answered the question. So you can f**k right off with the attitude.

    “Do you think they asked permission to hold this protest on council property?”

    On first reading I failed to spot they blocked the front doors, so if they were physically preventing access to the building then no they shouldn’t have been allowed to do that.

  • SuperSoupy

    Beano,

    Attitude withdrawn but I couldn’t know you didn’t read the article properly until you mentioned it.

    So we both agree the protest was wrong?

    Do we both agree that the UU Mayor was being inclusive, welcoming and deserves encouragement?

  • big jim

    The n.i fans are great lads.

    One supports the intimidation of the sportsmen and the other uses the term ‘offensive’without blushing and then says we should sweep the story under the carpet in favour of a bloody motorbike.

    ‘were not brazil, were f**king hypocrites’

  • The fact is that the BBC is going to have to get its head around the Irish language and irish identiy in the north in a serious way – and quick. It would never try to translate a name in any other language into English as it is offensive in the extreme to do this. Owen Roe is a bastardisation of Eoghan Rua and is a calculated insult to the club. It’s time the BBC remembered that broadcasting in Ireland doesn’t give them the right to trample over the native culture – do they do this in any other country in the world where they have a presence?

    The Irish Language Act when it’s enacted won’t compel people to speak Irish but professional standards, if they obtain in the BBC, should compel journalists and other broadcasters within the organisation to take the care to correctly pronounce the names of those who give them in Irish.

  • Bemused

    BBC ‘Norn Iron’ is a long-standing bigots convention. Why does the radio and television station systematically use the words ‘province’ and ‘Ulster’ to describe Northern Ireland (i.e. terms used almost exclusively in that context by only one side of the community) and yet wholly refrain from using ‘the North’ or ‘the six counties’ in similar circumstances? It is utterly indefensibly sectarian of them.

  • George

    beano,
    “but off the top of my head this was a news story, targeted at the bulk of the population, not a sport story targeted at GAA fans.”

    Afraid not, they translate the club’s name for sports stories too but not southern clubs like Na Piarsaigh apparently.

  • Dave

    Chris Donnelly also has a lot to learn with his incorrect refferals to the North when talking about Northern Ireland.

  • SuperSoupy

    [devils advocate on]

    George, on the club’s own website they provide the English language version beneath the Irish version admittedly in smaller font.

    [devils advocate off]

  • Bemused

    Dave – it’s called personal choice. Chris has as much right to refer to ‘the North’ and ‘the six counties’ as you have to refer to ‘ulster’ and ‘the province’. The objectionable aspect of the BBC’s behaviour is that they nakedly side with one section of the community and apply that section of the community’s nomenclature throughout their broadcasts – how would you feel if the BBC began to continually refer to Northern Ireland as ‘the North’ or ‘six counties’ to the total exclusion of your preferred descriptive terms? Let me guess – you’d be immediately complaining of an offensive republican conspiracy.

  • IJP

    GavBelfast

    Is the bigger story here not some credit for the Ulster Unionist Mayor, in ‘sponsoring’ the reception?

    There are aspects of the GAA that are at best hard to take for non-republicans and at worst downright offensive, the Mayor rose above this, a few oiks didn’t.

    Well said.

    Dave

    How’s that letter to the Belfast Telegraph protesting about its incorrect use of “Ulster” going?

  • George, I don’t know in that case. As your average joe falls into either “isn’t interested in GAA” or “would have no trouble reading Eoghan Rua” (I even had to go back and copy/paste that there!) I don’t see why they would need to do it.

    “So we both agree the protest was wrong? “

    I didn’t say the protest was wrong. The manner it was carried out in might have been wrong. The sentiment behind it I don’t know. If the people involved felt strongly enough to protest then that’s their right.

    “Do we both agree that the UU Mayor was being inclusive, welcoming and deserves encouragement? “

    Probably. I know the GAA have something of using the names of clubs etc to glorify terrorists, but I’ve no idea if this Owen Rea fella had anything to do with that. I had a quick google but can’t find anything about him (even from the club’s site, which seems a bit strange). Anyway, on the proviso that this chap wasn’t a terrorist and this club haven’t done anything so hideous as the Antrim GAA’s hunger strike commemoration last year, the only objection I could see would be the political objectives of the GAA as a whole. In that case, the UUP mayor was probably right, on balance, and showed considerable maturity – something severely lacking in some of the last few comments on this thread.

  • Dave

    How many GAA matches to Unionists have to endure on the BBC news programmes as well as Live matches and sports programmes devoted to the sport, if the BBC are biased its certainly not in favour of Unionists.

    The reason why the BBC call it Northern Ireland is because that it what this little provice is called and many Nationalists recognised this when voting for the GFA. Besides except in some joking references I have rarely heard Catholics/Nationalist continually call Northern Ireland the six counties or the North.

    Chris Donnelly represents a small minority on this issue.

  • Sorry, the “last few comments” are now shifted a few up. Just consider the word maturity the end of my last post.

  • SuperSoupy

    Beano,

    You thought he was going to be an IRA man? ffs!

    Did you do history at school? Flight of the Earls? 1641 rebellion?

  • Forecast

    George

    ‘Afraid not, they translate the club’s name for sports stories too but not southern clubs like Na Piarsaigh apparently.’

    More MOPEy bollocks. I don’t suppose the Germans give a toss over Bayern Munich, not Bayern Munchen : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6517189.stm

    Or the Portuguese are arsed about Sporting Lisbon, as opposed to Sport Lisboa
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/4445256.stm

    and of course lets not forget how the imperialist biggots at the BBC label Dynamo KIEV, instead of Dynamo Kyiv.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/sport/2002/10/29/match_report.shtml
    The bastards!

    (Sorry, not sure how to hyperlink)

  • Dave

    IJP

    Have you ever heard me use the word ‘Ulster’ when talking about NI, please don’t patronise me. I know that since you are an Alliance member you probably have no opinions on Constitutional matters except what Davey tells you to say, but some of us have genuine views.

  • cecil

    “as the Antrim GAA’s hunger strike commemoration last year”

    beano

    And your thoughts on the IFA having a minutes silence for the UVF/PUP leader, with union jack flying at half mast?

  • Bemused

    “The reason why the BBC call it Northern Ireland is because that it(sic) what this little provice (sic) is called and many Nationalists recognised this when voting for the GFA. Besides except in some joking references I have rarely heard Catholics/Nationalist (sic) continually call Northern Ireland the six counties or the North.”

    Oh dear.

    If you’d actually READ my post Dave you’d have noted that I wasn’t complaining about the BBC referring to ‘Northern Ireland’. That is the state’s name and I have absolutely no problem with that. What I’m objecting to is the BBC’s exclusive use of ‘province’ and ‘ulster’ as opposed to ‘the North’ or ‘the six counties’. So – try again – read my post and concentrate really hard and then try to justify the BBC’s stance on this.

    P.S. “I have rarely heard Catholics/Nationalist (sic) continually call Northern Ireland the six counties or the North.”

    Well then one can only imagine the mono-cultural, mon-ethnic 😉 circles you move in. I use the terms all the time as do many of my friends.

  • 0b101010

    Worth pointing out that if you bother to follow the link to the website for Eoghan Rua, you’ll see that the club offers up the English translation in their title graphic.

    Perhaps the club itself isn’t as petty as some of those who are prepared to be offended on their behalf.

  • jone

    Clearly by spending the weekend with the Cross team at Croker, then most of yesterday in the town before coming live from a boozer (complete with reporter dripping with Magners) the BBC once again demonstrated their utter hatred and contempt for Gaelic culture and should be forced to enter a Sinn Fein rehabiltation camp where Richard McAuley can teach them not to ask ‘stupid question.’

    And how come that bloke who always refers to Radio UDA hasn’t been on this thread yet – he’s always good for a big eye-roll?

  • SuperSoupy

    Beano,

    I’m sure the ‘Rua’ red hand of the O’Neill’s and the red hand of Ulster link may be a surprising shock for you too.

    I suggest books, if you can’t be bothered with them try correct spelling and google.

    IRA club…I’m stunned…this is the education people are fighting to retain?

  • Bemused

    “Clearly by spending the weekend with the Cross team at Croker, then most of yesterday in the town before coming live from a boozer (complete with reporter dripping with Magners) the BBC once again demonstrated their utter hatred and contempt for Gaelic culture and should be forced to enter a Sinn Fein rehabiltation camp where Richard McAuley can teach them not to ask ‘stupid question.’”

    It’d be interesting if you could actually address the issue jone i.e. why does the BBC adopt the descriptive geo-political nomenclature of one section of the community (‘Ulster’, ‘province’) over that of the other (‘the North’, ‘six counties’)?

  • GavBelfast

    I see the troll version of ‘Multi-Bob’ is back!

    I’m still shaking my head at George’s guff about translating the name of the club (the club itself has the English name on its website.)

    This lot have more important things to worry about, too, in their celebration. Spot the Gaelige.

    http://www.crossrangers.com/

  • SuperSoupy

    Gav,

    Isn’t it more an English pronunciation of the name than translation?

    Owen Roe? Surely the direct English is Red Eugene/(Owen)?

  • massey

    Coleraine football club should get an award for best half time entertainment

  • Diluted Orange

    [i]”No doubt future DCAL DUP Minister (Donaldson/Foster?) will want to be seen to build bridges with the membership of the largest sporting organisation in [b]the north[/b]”[/i]

    And at that point you loose any respect I had for your article. What’s wrong with the term ‘Northern Ireland’?

    How do you define a ‘sporting organisation’? Just because the IFA doesn’t overview all club football makes the GAA, by default, the largest ‘sporting asscoaition’ in the ‘North’ (is that Monaghan or something). Does that make it the largest ‘sectarian organisation in NI too or has the Orange Order still got that one sown up?

    By the way if you honestly think Donaldson is going to appear at Croker for a GAA final and general Republican fest … go back to sleep

  • Bemused

    “No doubt future DCAL DUP Minister (Donaldson/Foster?) will want to be seen to build bridges with the membership of the largest sporting organisation in the north”

    And at that point you loose (sic) any respect I had for your article. What’s wrong with the term ‘Northern Ireland’?”

    Again, it’s his personal choice to say ‘the North’ in the same way that it’s your personal choice to say ‘Ulster’ or ‘province’. Would you ‘loose’ respect for someone who used the term ‘ulster’ or province’ to describe Northern Ireland?

    If not then please explain this apparent rank hypocrisy?

  • GavBelfast

    SS,

    They call themselves that themselves!!!

    This place is getting worse – the story here is oiks, and a Mayor who rose above it, criticised the protest and showed generosity to what is, effectively, ‘the other side’. Whatever ones opinion of the flaws of the GAA, there’s good in this story, too, and others could learn from it.

    NB. It is official BBC policy not to use the term ‘Ulster’ in news references to NI. The term ‘Six Counties’ is obviously heavily politically loaded and avoided, but the term ‘North’ is frequently used when the context makes it clear what ‘North’ it is. Northern Ireland is the clear, formal and internationally correct term, of course. Marty even helps to draft and signs letters referring to that very description nowadays.

  • chaser

    “By the way if you honestly think Donaldson is going to appear at Croker for a GAA final and general Republican fest”

    I doubt if he will be appearing at the next n.i orange fest at Windsor Park either, seeing as he loves the Maze project. lol

  • jone

    Bemused,

    Two minutes googling tells me the bloke in charge of the BBC’s Editorial Policy is called David Jordan.

    Why don’t you ask him about your geo-political whatnot; you pay his wages so he’ll have to tell you.

    His phone number is posted here http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/contact/

    and I’ll take a wild guess that his email is david.jordan@bbc.co.uk

    Post the reply here. It’ll be rather more useful than my, or your, guess work.

  • Bemused

    “NB. It is official BBC policy not to use the term ‘Ulster’ in news references to NI. The term ‘Six Counties’ is obviously heavily politically loaded and avoided, but the term ‘North’ is frequently used when the context makes it clear what ‘North’ it is.”

    Not true. Listen to Radio Ulster (hint – look at the station’s title) they use ‘Ulster’ and ‘province’ with gay abandon and never use ‘the North’ or ‘the six counties’. Why is ‘Ulster’ acceptable and ‘the six counties’ not? Are both not ‘heavily politically loaded’?

  • Bemused

    Thanks jone – will post out of interest and revert with a reply.

  • GavBelfast

    Bemused, I’m well aware of what Radio Ulster is called and has been called since it was launched in 1975, that’s why I said “news references”.

    The rest of your post is bollocks, seriously, bollocks.

    Cheerio, sleep tight and don’t let misplaced, erroneous and petty obsessions keep you awake. Sleep tight.

    😉

  • Bemused

    “Bemused, I’m well aware of what Radio Ulster is called and has been called since it was launched in 1975, that’s why I said “news references”.

    The rest of your post is bollocks, seriously, bollocks.”

    The REST of my post? O.K. so what part of “Why is ‘Ulster’ acceptable and ‘the six counties’ not? Are both not ‘heavily politically loaded’?” is ‘bollocks, seriously, bollocks’? Listen to Radio Ulster – please. Then try to tell me that in ‘news references’ it accords anything like equal usage to Nationalist/Republican descriptive terms as opposed to Loyalist/Unionist terms. It simply does not. All newsreaders routinely use the term ‘province’ and NEVER use the term ‘the North’. To suggest otherwise is being simply dishonest. Addressing this patent sectarianism rather than just glibly dismissing any criticism of it as being ‘bollocks’ might be a start….

  • gavin

    “Addressing this patent sectarianism rather than just glibly dismissing any criticism of it as being ‘bollocks’ might be a start….”

    He’s a n.i supporter, what do you expect ?

  • Soupy, you may be patronising but your comments aren’t half as bad as the trolling in some of the others (like the ongoing MOPE that the BBC don’t use the “occupied six counties” or some such crap).

    Anyway, I don’t recall doing the Flight of the Earls in high school history. We did the Normans, the planations, the glorious revolution, act of union, Young Irelanders/United Irelanders (I forget which, the crowd with the 1798 rebellion), the Act of Union etc etc.

    Soupy, as I said I’d no informatin as to whether the club was named after an IRA man or not, and was prepared to keep an open mind on the subject. I’ll happily accept your word it’s got f**k all to do with it and am happy to hear so.

    By the way, in one of the other posts there’s a link to a Loyal Orders gathering at Coleraine Showgrounds. AFAIK that is owned by Coleraine Borough Council and not the football club and it doesn’t appear the football club was involved, judging by the atmosphere.

    If the above is true, then yes the mayor was almost certainly right to welcome the GAA club to the council buildings as obviously they don’t have a policy against use of council premises for political groupings.

    I hope that clears things up.

  • bertie

    “And your thoughts on the IFA having a minutes silence for the UVF/PUP leader, with union jack flying at half mast? ”

    Beano can speak for himself but my thoughts are that it was a bloody disgrace!

  • qubol

    I wonder if Concerned Loyalist is still alive? He was from Coleraine and maybe he could shed some light on this latest loyalist b1got-fest.
    Well done to the mayor anyway, maybe this inclusive spirit might find its way down to Ballymena now. I’ll not hold my breath though.

  • páid

    I can confirm that CL is indeed alive and contributing on parallel threads.

    Like me though, I suspect he’s preoccupied wondering if Wes Brown will slip up against Totti tomorrow night.

    That’s the thing about Wesley. Brilliant defender, but occasionally studs too quick for the turf.

  • Cahal

    Is that the club founded about 15 years ago?

    I’ve heard they had their posts cut down on numerous ocassion, glass spread on pitch, people urinated on the pitch, club members received death threats, etc.

    Of course that’s all hear say. Can’t be bothered checking.

    Fair play to the mayor. Good to see he is performing his duties.

  • SuperSoupy

    beano,

    I may have been patronising but admit it… you just learnt something.

    And we both end up endorsing a UUP Mayor.

    I’m happy with that outcome.

  • Derrygael

    What about the petiton which was handed around by the local orange order at the formation of the club demanding the club should be banned, as it played its games on the sabbath day. Court case thereafter). The glass which are still been constantly broke on the pitch. The posts which have been cut down on various occasions. Damage to the cars in the parking lot while players train??????? I am sure the performers of these actions are not part of the new windsor park ‘Norn Iron’.

  • SuperSoupy

    Just as a wee aside:

    Did Beano not concentrate during the teaching of the ‘Flight of the Earls’ or is this not taught in ‘state’ history classes?

    Seems a major part of shared history to me.

    Please tell me his mind was wandering that day.

  • FAP

    During the Provos’ war, why did they not nut a few journalists? The resistance fighters in Iraq and elsewhere are following a more pragmatic line in this regard by culling them.
    Although Terence O’Neill and his ilk (they even stole our names) fled during the early days, their brand of sneering surpemacism lingered in places like the BBC.
    Perhaps if a few BBC journos were hospitalised, it might wake them up.
    The mayor is to be congratulated and it is a pity his fascist constituents once more bring shame on that Hun infected city.

  • BeardyBoy

    Why did the police not arrest these thugs? I do do hope that they have been filmed and due process be applied so that decent law abiding people will be able to go about their daily business in the future.

    Why did the CLG agree to use the back door and not insist the police do their duty? Surely they do not accept backdoor status in this day and age?

  • Henry94

    George

    I have to break ranks on this one.

    Don’t we complain about the word Eire when used in an english language context as the name of the southern state? We can’t have it both ways.

    He was always known as Owen Roe in my house.

    “Did they dare, did they dare, to slay Owen Roe O’Neill?
    Yes, they slew with poison him they had feared to meet with steel.
    Had he lived – had he lived – our dear country had been free;
    But he’s dead – but he’s dead – and ’tis slaves we’ll ever be.

    Sagest in the council was he, kindest in the Hall:
    Sure we never won a battle – ’twas Owen won them all.
    Soft as woman’s was your voice, O’Neill; bright was your eye,
    Oh! Why did you leave us, Owen? Why did you die?

    Your troubles are all over, you’re at rest with God on high;
    But we’re slaves, and we’re orphans, Owen! – why did you die?
    We’re sheep without a Shepard, when the snow shuts out the sky-
    Oh! why did you leave us, Owen? Why did you die?”

  • BP1078

    And your thoughts on the IFA having a minutes silence for the UVF/PUP leader, with union jack flying at half mast?

    Beano can speak for himself but my thoughts are that it was a bloody disgrace!

    Bertie

    I agree, disgraceful decision, except “Derrygael”, who never knowingly lets the truth get in the way of a good oul smear, got it slightly wrong. It was Glentoran FC and not the IFA who decided it was appropriate to commemorate a terrorist.

    You would think that the BBC would have the common courtesy of calling the club by its proper name rather than translating it into English. A long way to go yet.

    No, really, George’s got a point.
    The BBC are insisting that John O’Shea is playing “Roma” and not “Rome” tonight.

    Yet last night it was Bayern Munich playing AC Milan. No consistency whatsoever.

  • Beano-

    “Why should they not use the same language for the club as for the rest of the article and the first spoken language of their entire target audience?”

    So can we henceforth expect the BBC to refer to Al Qaeda as ‘The Base’ in all of its articles and news reports? After all, we wouldn’t want to confuse readers by interspersing copy with random words not originating from the Queen’s English…

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Bemused
    ‘It’d be interesting if you could actually address the issue jone i.e. why does the BBC adopt the descriptive geo-political nomenclature of one section of the community (’Ulster’, ‘province’) over that of the other (’the North’, ‘six counties’)?’

    Actually Bemused, the issue is that loyalists have picketed a civic reception for a GAA club. This is the issue, and in 56 posts on this thread, none of yours have addressed the issue once. Instead concentrating on some ridiculously pedantic and superfluous argument.

  • jone

    I see those shower of imperialist bastards on the Irish News have referred to the club as ‘Owen Roe’ in today’s papper.

  • Bill

    Coleraine revealed to be a backward dump.

    Quelle surprise.

  • jaffa

    SuperSoupy,

    I don’t think it’s taught. Certainly wasn’t to O’level when I was a boy. Irish history started with Parnell & Gladstone and ended with Partition.

    I have an Oxford Illustrated British History at home which doesn’t bother with Scotland until about page 200 and then only to discuss the Stuarts. English colonialism is still rife at the Oxford University Press!

    On the subject of poisoning I googled Owen Roe and found this site for a US vintner,

    http://www.owenroe.com

    I’m not sure that explaining how Owen Roe was poisoned at the table and then saying you have a wine called “The Abbot’s Table” in commemoration of him is a great marketing tactic, but they do say it’s their best seller.

  • fair_deal

    I am sure any future DUP DCAL minister will seek a good relationship with all the artistic, cultural and sporting bodies in Northern Ireland. She/He will no doubt be asking them how they will contribute to the Shared Future policy.

    In the case with the GAA ask what action on the clubs named after terrorists, use of grounds/facilities for glorification of terrorists, what plans it has to depoliticise its aims etc as well as get a straight answer on the Maze proposals as HQ seems much keener than those here.

    With the likes of the IFA he/she will have to discuss the issues around the re-organisation of the game, sectarianism at matches and try to find why the levels of trouble at matches seem to have grown this season.

  • gram

    massey:Coleraine football club should get an award for best half time entertainment.<< That's a pretty good attendence for Irish League "football". Maybe they are on to something. What's up for the next home game Justin getting Janet's tits out again?

  • gram

    BP1078:Yet last night it was Bayern Munich playing AC Milan. No consistency whatsoever.<< Well actually BP if you knew your history of Italian football you would know that many clubs including Milan were formed by British people. Thus the correct name for AC Milan is the english version and not the italian translation, Milano etc. The BBC thus have got this one spot on.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Erm – I think he was referring to Bayern Munich (in German ‘Bayern München’) with that one.

  • k

    ‘In the case with the GAA ask what action on the clubs named after terrorists, use of grounds/facilities for glorification of terrorists, what plans it has to depoliticise its aims etc as well as get a straight answer on the Maze proposals as HQ seems much keener than those here.’
    Will the IFA break its’ political links with the Windsors? This so-called ‘Royal’ family are responsible for more terrorism than anything from this island.

  • gaelgannaire

    “Thus the correct name for AC Milan is the english version and not the italian translation, Milano etc”.

    Italian translation?

    I think you will find that Milano (or Milán in the local dialect) is an Italian/Lombard place-name not a translation of an English place-name!It is from the Latin Mediolanum which is itself a romanisation of a celtic place-name.

    Milan is an anglicisation. English speakers did not name Italian/lombard/Roman cities!

  • *Sigh*

    Can we say braindead? The IFA has no political links with “the Windsors”.

    http://www.everythingulster.com/blogs/index.php/everythingulster/2006/01/30/eu_mythbuster_no_1_windsor_park

    Go, read and, God forbid, learn. Little scumbag mouthpieces like that really piss me off. MOPE MOPE f**king MOPE!

    Interesting post containing the song lyrics above, but according to the source of all knowledge, it’s more likely that Owen Roe died from disease, not poisining. Doesn’t quite fit in with the romanticism of it all, but c’est la vie.

  • SuperSoupy

    Beano,

    Now you’re an expert? Last night you thought he was an IRA man!

    Forgive me but I’ll treat your googled views with all the credence they deserve (even though you may have hit lucky).

  • ian

    “You would think that the BBC would have the common courtesy of calling the club by its proper name rather than translating it into English. A long way to go yet.”

    Unless the BBC story has been updated since the above comment was made, I don’t see what your point is George.

    According to the story:

    “The event was held to honour the Eoghan Rua club”

    and:

    “The Ulster Unionist mayor of the town, William King, said such actions should be left in the past.

    ‘We were hosting a civic reception for Owen Roe on their tremendous success'”

    So the Beeb used the Gaelic version of the name, except when quoting the UU mayor. It’s the mayor you should be taking issue with, not the reporter.

  • GavBelfast

    I see those shower of imperialist bastards on the Irish News have referred to the club as ‘Owen Roe’ in today’s papper.

    Posted by jone on Apr 04, 2007 @ 09:34 AM

    Typical – Stoops, Uncle Toms, Castle Catholics, Forelock Tuggers, West Brits, Cap Doffers the lot of them.

    Where’s Daily Ireland when you need it?

    Are we all done with the hissy-fits and settle on three cheers for the UUP Mayor?

  • gram

    gaelgannaire:Milan is an anglicisation. English speakers did not name Italian/lombard/Roman cities!<< Didn't say anywhere that English speakers named Italian cities. However AC Milan is often incorrectly referred to, or incorrectly translated into, Milano which is incorrect.

  • Tochais Síoraí

    Did the DUP members of the council attend?

  • steve48

    don’t know what all the fuss is about since the DUP Mayor of Ballymena hosted a reception for a local hurling club a few months back

  • ian I think it has been changed from last night. Not sure it was necessary but I won’t lose any sleep over it.

    Soupy, I’m not claiming to be any kind of expert, which is why I went and looked it up in the first place and linked to the entry so folk can make their own minds up. Don’t shoot the messenger.

  • Mike

    George,

    “You would think that the BBC would have the common courtesy of calling the club by its proper name rather than translating it into English. A long way to go yet”

    Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent, but your comment reminded me of something I read from the opinio writer in the irish News earlier in the week. (Tom Kelly possibly)

    He mentioned that all players in Gaelic games must have their names filled in on the teamsheet in Irish.

    He made the point about why people with non-Gaelic names should have to translate them literally. And that got me thinking (and here’s where your point ties in) – in the GAA in the modern era, shouldn’t the hypothetical John Black, Richard Baker, Peter Jameson, or even David Rosenberg or Ismail Aziz be referred to by their ‘proper name’? Now of course this is a metter for the GAA, of which I’m not a member or paricipant, though if I was involved, I’d be tempted to point out I have only one name, not a different one in English and Irish.

    (Do even Fitzgerald and Fitzpatrick, those most ‘Irish’ of names, get translated from the 800 plus years Anglo-Norman Irish tradition to Gaelic Irish names?)

  • tyronie

    Don’t the protesters have anything better to do with their time, you’d think they’d have better things to concern them than a parish club winning a gaelic football title. But I guess in the heads of these people anyone who plays GAA is automatically a provo supporter or something. The irony is that on a GAA message board I use, we get called british etc from a minority of our republic of Ireland counterparts. Yeah no, the GAA isnt a training ground for some future rebellion or whatever.

    How many GAA matches to Unionists have to endure on the BBC news programmes as well as Live matches and sports programmes devoted to the sport, if the BBC are biased its certainly not in favour of Unionists.

    Erm, considering its popularity the GAA should really get more coverage. It’s a bit weird that the soccer gets so much airtime considering it seems like about 100 people attend each game. Anyway, it was particularly silly after the Tyrone verse Dublin game a couple of months ago, 80,000 people attended and the game literally got 10 seconds coverage, and all it showed was a guy getting sent off. Whereas the soccer got a load of it. It doesnt really make much sense.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    You would think that the BBC would have the common courtesy of calling the club by its proper name rather than translating it into English. A long way to go yet.

    Posted by George on Apr 03, 2007 @ 10:10 PM

    As a resident of the Coleraine Borough I’ve always known the local GAA club as Owen Roe…the Coleraine Chronicle and Times refer to it in English too, presumably as the newspapers are in English and the local community, as with the rest of Ulster, are English-speaking!

  • Concerned Loyalist

    “Loyalists in Coleraine have picketed against the decision of the majority-unionist council to hold a civic reception for a local GAA club, Owen Roe”

    Only right! The people of Coleraine should not be picking up the tab for GAA clubs when the GAA’s ruling body turns a blind eye to IRA republican murder-gang commemorations at Casemement Park…the GAA can’t have it both ways, claiming to be non-sectarian and inclusive to all then allowing their facilities to be used by people who are anathema to any right-thinking indicidual, let alone the PUL community.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Sorry, “Casemement” should read “Casement” and “indicidual” should read “individual”…

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Beano

    “If the people involved felt strongly enough to protest then that’s their right.”

    Their right to hold a peaceful “protest” is not in question. Saying they have a right to “protest” is not the same as saying they ARE right to “protest”. And what exactly is it they are “protesting” about?

    William King deserves great credit for showing leadership in inviting Eoghan Rua to a council reception. The reaction of the loyalist b1gots who picketed it, and the 15 other unionist councillors who shunned the event and thereby gave succour to the loyalist b1gots, demonstrates just how much leadership is still needed in some of the more benighted parts of the north.

    “Go, read and, God forbid, learn. Little scumbag mouthpieces like that really piss me off. MOPE MOPE f**king MOPE!”

    Whereas that was a most gentlemanly reply. Charming I’m sure…..

    PS. Can someone propose a moratorium on the “MOPE” cliche? It’s sooooo boring and soooooo played out at this stage.

    Diluted Orange
    “What’s wrong with the term ‘Northern Ireland’?”

    Nothing. What’s wrong with referring to “the north”? At least it has the advantage of accuracy.

    Steve48

    “don’t know what all the fuss is about since the DUP Mayor of Ballymena hosted a reception for a local hurling club a few months back”
    Exactly. So the question is, why did a bunch of knuckle-dragging UgUg merchants in Coleraine decide to make some sort of stand against this club – a club that, apparently, has been victimised and terrorised by thugs these last fifteen years?

    The good news is that a unionist politician in the town showed some leadership in tackling the poison of sectarianism – the bad news is that, thus far, no other unionist councillor has joined him.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    BP1078

    “No consistency whatsoever.”

    Nail on head. The fact is, the BBC is totally inconsistent in its approach to non-English language names. One minute it’s Bayern Munich, the next it’s Roma. Very often I’d say it’s simply ignorance, or at least that this generation of broadcasters still stick to a precedent set by their more ignorant predecessors. (For example, you’ll wait a long time before you hear a BBC broadcaster say “Internazionale”, but you’ll hear the idiotic “Inter Milan” at least as often as you’ll hear the acceptable “Inter”. Why? Because they’ve been saying “Inter Milan” since back in the days when France was a far-off land full of Johnny Foreigners.

    Equally we see it with GAA clubs – and of course, what would be mere cultural arrogance elsewhere comes with an added sectarian piquancy in Northern Ireland. A broadcaster at BBC Manchester might not care less whether he was pronouncing the name of an African person correctly, but that would be simple pig-headed ignorance and arrogance towards a non-indigenous culture. A broadcaster in BBC Northern Ireland treating the Irish language as though it was as esoteric and exotic as Swahili is not quite the same thing.

    (Of course here’s the rub: the BBC moves heaven and earth to ensure that it correctly pronounces the names of people and peoples and institutions from all over the world – Christ, they have teams of people whose only job is to make sure they get it right. Except that Ireland seems to be a blind spot. (Perhaps because they wrongly assume they know everything they need to know about Ireland.) If Kevin Moran had emerged from a long-lost Amazonian tribe and come to play for Man U after his people had lived in isolation from the rest of the world for a thousand years, the BBC would have sent a man on a boat up the Amazon to find out exactly how his name should be pronounced. But because he came from Dublin, he had to listen to BBC broadcasters mispronouncing his name for fifteen years. (The emphasis is on the FIRST syllable, lads!)

    There’s also the point that BBCNI sometimes DO refer to GAA clubs by their Irish title. For example, in Armagh city there are two Gaelic football clubs: Armagh Harps and the Pearse Ogs. BBC never refer to the Young Pearses, nor do they refer to Na Piarsigh Oga (the club’s official title). They refer to the Pearse Ogs, like everyone does. My own club is more interesting: we have always been the Harps, or Armagh Harps, when referred to in a news context. However, in recent years there has been a definite trend, particularly among younger players, towards referring to the club’s official name, Na Clairsigh Ard Mhacha instead. It’ll be interesting to see how this evolves – and how organisations like the BBC respond.

  • iluvni

    I take it the successful Owen Roe GAA team is a shining example within Northern Ireland where players from all religious backgrounds participate and play in the team?

  • JG

    Would Eoghan Rua fans be allowed to stick their right arm straight up in a show of support for their team?

  • Bill

    Angela Rippon is a graduate in spanish and she correctly pronounced guerilla as guerilla whereas the BBC wanted her to say guerilla.

    As she was contract staff she couldn’t be sacked.

  • Paddy Matthews

    (Do even Fitzgerald and Fitzpatrick, those most ‘Irish’ of names, get translated from the 800 plus years Anglo-Norman Irish tradition to Gaelic Irish names?)

    Fitzgerald has a long enough tradition in Ireland (“Hiberniores Hibernis ipsis” and all that jazz) to have an accepted Irish-language form – Mac Gearailt.

    Fitzpatrick, despite its appearance, isn’t actually an Anglo-Norman name in the first place. It’s an Anglicisation of one of two earlier Gaelic surnames Mac Giolla Phádraig from what is now Kilkenny and Ó Maolphádraig from Fermanagh/Cavan.

    In the case of the name of the club, they do seem to use “Owen Roe GAC” as a subtitle on their website, so I wouldn’t view it as that much of a slight on the Irish language.

    He made the point about why people with non-Gaelic names should have to translate them literally. And that got me thinking (and here’s where your point ties in) – in the GAA in the modern era, shouldn’t the hypothetical John Black, Richard Baker, Peter Jameson, or even David Rosenberg or Ismail Aziz be referred to by their ‘proper name’? Now of course this is a metter for the GAA, of which I’m not a member or paricipant, though if I was involved, I’d be tempted to point out I have only one name, not a different one in English and Irish.

    The quality of Irish versions tends to be questionable a lot of the time in any case, though I’ve seen names which don’t have obvious Irish-language equivalents (“Beck” for example) just left “as is”. You could adapt them to the phonetics of Irish, I suppose:

    Dáibhéid Rosaenberg
    Ismail Asuíos

    (though the last one looks very awkward in Irish).

    Where it may get hairy in future is with the little Grzegorzes and Małgorzatas in primary schools.

    The “translation” of foreign names into local phonetic equivalents isn’t unique to Irish though – Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian does the same thing, Czech tends to stick an “ová” onto women’s names (“Britney Spearsová”). Even English has been known to perform the same type of trick 😉

    In any case, as other people have said, it’s very welcome that a Unionist mayor of a mainly-Unionist council was happy to hold the reception in the first place. That should be the main focus.

  • GavBelfast

    I can’t believe how much effort people are putting in to getting offended and finding fault in the pettiest issues of pronunciation, etc. The wrong emphasis on Kevin Moran’s surname has just about taken the biscuit. I’m just surprised Ken Doherty wasn’t mentioned too.

    While we’re at it, was it ‘Alec’ or ‘Alex’ Higgins?

    😉

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    ‘you’ll wait a long time before you hear a BBC broadcaster say “Internazionale”, but you’ll hear the idiotic “Inter Milan” at least as often as you’ll hear the acceptable “Inter”. ‘

    Why is Inter Milan idiotic but Inter acceptable? The full name of the club is Football Club Internazionale Milano – shortening Internazionale to Inter is acceptable (Inter is on the badge) so Inter Milan is merely an English translation.

    All you have to do is go to Inter’s website to see how idiotic the club thinks it is – http://www.inter.it/

    From the front page:

    BENVENUTO AL SITO UFFICIALE DELL’INTER
    WELCOME TO THE OFFICIAL WEB SITE OF INTER MILAN
    BIENVENIDOS A LA WEB OFICIAL DEL INTER DE MILÁN

  • ormoan

    “The people of Coleraine should not be picking up the tab for GAA clubs when the GAA’s ruling body turns a blind eye to IRA republican murder-gang commemorations at Casemement Park”

    And its ok for the people of Coleraine to pick up the tab for the orange order and black organisations when they have their demonstrations at the Home of Coleraine football club (the showgrounds). The demonstrations include paramilitary bands including the Freeman memorial band who commemorate a uvf murderer?

    Was it ok for the orange order to be given the use of Windsor Park for its tri-centenary celebrations, when the order took over the ground for the day?

    Was it ok for the IFA to take no action against Glentoran for holding a minutes silence for the uvf/pup leader ?

    Was it ok for the IFA to give free access to Ian Paisley & the DUP during a recent Ballymena United game?

    Was it ok for the IFA to allow Protestant religious groups to hand out literature within the stadium during an international game last year.