10% of Republic’s population now made up of non-Irish nationals

The principle demographic results from the 2006 census are out and show that Irish Republic now has a population of 4.24 million, 10% of which is made up by non-Irish nationals. In fact, 612,000 were born outside of the Republic with 438,000 coming from the EU. Could be interesting to see if this develops into an election issue.The main places of origin are:

Northern Ireland 50,172
England and Wales 204,746
Scotland 16,863
Czech Republic 5,278
Estonia 2,373
France 9,307
Germany 11,797
Hungary 3,328
Italy 5,811
Latvia 13,999
Lithuania 24,808
Netherlands 4,292
Poland 63,090
Slovakia 8,201
Spain 6,207

Other European Countries 27,517
Romania 8,566
Russia 4,568
Ukraine 3,397
Moldova 2,260

Other 8,726

Africa total 42,764
Nigeria 16,677
South Africa 7,727
Zimbabwe 2,281
Congo 2,037

Other 14,042

Asia total 55,628
China 11,218
Philippines 9,644
India 9,342
Pakistan 5,850
Malaysia 3,409

USA 25,181
Brazil 4,720
Canada 4,618
Australia 6,624
New Zealand 2,393

Other interesting trends:

– Number of divorced persons has increased by 70 per cent, from 35,000 to 59,500 between 2002 and 2006

– The proportion of ever-married persons who were either separated or divorced increased from 7.5 per cent in 2002 to 8.7 per cent in 2006

– Number of Muslims up 13,400 since 2002 to just over 32,500

– 3.68 million Roman Catholic but the % share fell from 88.4 per cent in 2002 to 86.8 per cent in 2006

– 15% of all residences were vacant on census night

– Just 199 Polish pensioners

  • Does anybody else out there think the actual Polish number is around three times greater than the census figure?

    It’s fascinating stuff – the ROI is probably experiencing the greatest proportionate change in population of any EU country in terms of non-nationals. Wonder what happens if the property building market downturns?

  • BogExile

    The Church of Ireland population is outstripping the growth of the catholic polulation – 6.3% versus 8.7.

    By my estimation this means that if current trends continue there will be a Protestant majority by the year 3402.

    Paisley will still be alive and will take the throne and any dissent will be ruthlessly suppresssed by the military wing of the Mothers Union.

    Happy days!

  • joeCanuck

    It’s a very healthy development in that the previously quite insular Irish are being exposed to other cultures and, hopefully, different ways of thinking.
    I wonder what proportion of the non-nationals are entrepreneurs as opposed to low wage economic migrants.

  • Can we stop using this idiotic phrase “non-nationals”? Only stateless persons are non-nationals.

  • joeCanuck

    I’m not sure what you mean Wednesday.
    I think we all know what “non-national” means in the context of any country – anyone residing in that country who is not a citizen of that state.
    What alternative word do you suggest?

  • George

    Wednesday,
    I agree and mea culpa. Have changed it accordingly to the terminology used by the CSO – non-Irish national.

  • Greenflag

    George ,

    Thanks for the ‘detail’

    Bogexile ,

    ‘By my estimation this means that if current trends continue there will be a Protestant majority by the year 3402.’

    Not at all by 3402 assuming humanity is still extant on the planet there’ll be an atheist/humanist majority on this island , and a Polish majority with a Taoiseach name of Sean O’Kowalski or some such ?

  • Murphy

    Theres a clear reason why there is such a high percentage of foreign nationals! Theres so much money to be made in Republic. The society is drastically multicultural which is wounderful. Pity Belfast, and much of its narrow minded loyalist/BNP believers could’nt move forward and come into this centuary. As we see the north is yet again been ‘destroyed bu Corp. Tax’! At the end of the day you all no the answer and t a 32 county republic free from the British hand outs and underfunding! We are secound class until it changes!

  • Greenflag

    George ,

    ‘Could be interesting to see if this develops into an election issue.’

    It won’t. Not this time anyway.

  • Two Nations

    Bogexile

    LMAO. That did tickle me.

  • The Lurgan Spade

    Murphy

    I think you are implying that it is only loyalists that are racist in Northern Ireland..I dodn’t think so!
    Stop playing the second class citizen whinge.I’m a Nationalist and I ain’t no second class citizen in Northern Ireland!

  • Marosa

    “The Church of Ireland population is outstripping the growth of the catholic polulation – 6.3% versus 8.7.

    By my estimation this means that if current trends continue there will be a Protestant majority by the year 3402.”

    I think that’s quite ironic given that the trend on mainland Britain is the other way – with Catholics set to overtake the Anglicans as the as the largest branch of Christianity in Britain for the first time since the Reformation – mainly due to Eastern European immigration.

    Wonder what Paisley and co would make of that!

  • circles

    Any idea what the non-national figures would be for the US Australia?

  • Tochais Síoraí

    Mmm, not too sure about this one, the criteria of birth as a benchmark is always dodgy. I’m a non-Irish nat according to above.

    On the other hand, the figs for Polish, Chinese, Brazilian (there are surely more than 4,700 in South Connacht, must be 2000 in Gort alone) seem very low.

  • Elvis Parker

    Bogexile
    LOL!
    Actually it could be much sooner surely as that would be a C of I majority! Add in Prebyterian and the fact that many of the African migrants are from smaller Protestant sects!
    Sean O’Kowalski might be Co I by 3402!

  • George

    Tochais Síoraí,
    no you aren’t part of the non-Irish national category, you are part of the not born in the Republic category.

    612,000 were born outside of the Republic, 419,000 of whom fit into the non-Irish national category.

    The 193,000 would then be those from NI, children of return immigrants, second-generation diaspora making a life here, naturalised citizens etc.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    Gas how only a couple of years ago Trimble descibed the Irish Republic as being a ”…pathetic sectarian, mono-ethnic, mono-cultural state to our south….”

    He was kinda out of touch here as well with a few other things.

  • The Dubliner

    At a guess, you can take those figures for non-Irish nationals and double them. You’ll get a fairly accurate census return from a household that is a family home, but much less accurate when there are ten immigrants to one house (and the landlord doesn’t know), when immigrants change digs regularly, don’t have the language skills to fill out the form, fear it, or couldn’t give a toss. It also, of course, only includes those who are here legally.

    It’s all multicultural and sunshine while Ireland needs the immigrants, but wait until the economic downturn comes and the immigrants are competing for state handouts with the indigenous population, then we’ll see a more ugly side to Irish hospitality, alas.

    A sensible cap on immigrants would be 15% of population (I think the EU says 10%). Realistically (and despite what the census says), we’re way above that figure.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    ‘By my estimation this means that if current trends continue there will be a Protestant majority by the year 3402.’

    A Protestant Irish Republic would be ideal, ….except we don’t want the Protestant monarchists!

    No Pope & no King!

  • Ulster McNulty

    “Can we stop using this idiotic phrase “non-nationals”? Only stateless persons are non-nationals.”

    Yes it’s sounds an awful, negative tag.

    “Non-Irish-nationals” – not much better, it probably only sounds good if you have a Belfast accent and have just consumed 10 pints of beer.

    I like that other phrase you often hear these days – the “New Irish” – it has pedigree, it reminds me of the “Old English”.

    It’s one of those “modern” and “at ease with itself” type phrases, rather pretentious and silly. It’s not like your going to ask a Nigerian or a Pole what their nationality is and they’re going to tell you “New Irish”.

    Also, there is an island in the pacific ocean called New Ireland and I would presume that the inhabitants are the real New Irish.

    I think by rights we should call them expats, or is it inpats?

  • Tochais Síoraí

    Thanks, George, for a while there i thought the Garda immigration boys were coming after me.

  • DatzReit

    LOL…there’s Definitely a lot more Poles in Ireland than that, and er…11,000 Chinese??? Come off it.

  • Thanks for making the change, George.

    Joe:

    I think we all know what “non-national” means in the context of any country

    Other countries don’t use the term. If you Google it, you’ll see that nearly all the results are pages from Ireland.

  • Two Nations

    The % of Catholics has fallen over 1% in 4 years. It will be just over 150 years before they are a minority in the Republic!

    Of course for the Big Man to be President he would have to form a coalition with Muslims and Hindus. He would be a mature 240 something, so never say never.

  • Oranges for Sale

    I find this figure to be absolutely terrifying! If in just a few years a figure like this can be achieved, what will society in the South look like within the next decade?
    What does it mean to be English? That’s a question a lot of English people will have a tough time answering, mostly due to the fact that England has now become a multi cultural hell hole, with no sense of common identity. Lets just hope the Republic doesn’t make the same mistake or any sense of ‘Irishness’ could be lost forever.

  • German-American

    cicles: “Any idea what the non-national figures would be for the US [or] Australia?”

    Just under 12 per cent of the US population was born outside the US (33 million people in total). However huge stretches of the US have very low percentages of foreign-born residents. The states with the highest concentrations of foreign-born residents have between approximately 15-25 per cent.

    By analogy with the US the ROI could presumably see growth to at least 15 or even 20 per cent non-Irish nationals.

  • Elvis Parker

    If that sense of ‘Irishness’ is the old exclusive Catholic Gaelic one then the sooner we lose it the better

  • joeCanuck

    Oranges for Sale
    “a multi cultural hell hole, with no sense of common identity”

    I suggest you get a life. I live in a multicultural country and it’s wonderful.

  • Two Nations

    Talking about Irishness, in the pages before the religion breakdown page, there are facts and figures about the Irish language. From what I can make out there are 53,471 people speaking Irish outside the education system. There are 63,090 Poles. Polish is spoken more than Irish.

    One of the many things that has to have some effect on the landscape of this island. Other languages are bound to creep into our everyday use, which is not a bad thing I think. Our stupid demographic debates look more and more meaningless by the day.

    Pokojowy.

  • Gréagóir O’ Frainclín

    Nearly all Catholics in the Republic are non practicing or lapsed Catholics as such. Could kinda be called Protestants in a way, as the canon law is ignored. There are a quite a number of atheists too, as opposed to years ago when we were in the Middle Ages of the 1940’s and 50’s.
    Those that are practicing Catholics in the Republic today are either very old or waiting to die.
    NI is somewhat in the Middle Ages too as regards religion today.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Could be interesting to see if this develops into an election issue.’

    I think that in individual constituencies (especially some of the Dublin ones) it already is.

  • slug

    Still 98% white though.

  • Two Nations

    Slug,

    I take it you meant that as a statement of fact. Not as an endorsement.

  • slug

    Two Nations;

    It was a statement of fact, but a measure on which Ireland is actually not very diverse.

    Not a criticism of Ireland, just a perspective on things. Compare London, Birmingham, Glasgow.

  • PaddyReilly

    The principles to be observed when regulating immigration are very similar to those involved in the creation of a good compost heap. You want to make sure that the elements you introduce are going to break down fairly rapidly, and end up making healthy soil.

    Equally, with people, you want to know that immigrants are going to blend in, intermarry and not be going to form ghettos of disgruntled rioters with big chips on their shoulder. One nation is the principle to be followed.

    For one thing, it’s so much easier to operate. The horrors of multicultural equal opportunities political correctness are something that Ireland can well do without.

    In the London Borough of Camden the bill for racism awareness courses, and for catering for people’s ‘cultural needs’ is substantial, but when a number of complaints about an unsafe wall were made, nothing was done. A storm came and it blew over killing a child. (Of immigrant stock, I should add). Use a racially charged epithet and you will be summarily dismissed, but help yourself to the money of the elderly and handicapped, and you won’t be detected for years.

    Therefore I think that Ireland should be proud of keeping itself 98% white. Boring perhaps, but safe.

  • Two Nations

    I thought so Slug. I just didn’t want anybody needlessly jumping on your remark. Any Sluggerite would know from your regular postings that you meant it in the way you intended.

    Ireland is still pretty whitebread. Be interesting to see how this changes over the next few decades. It should be more relevant to Protestant communities as the majority of African immigrants are Protestant from what I believe. I would like to see Protestant church demographics over the next decade.

    As for as fitting in NI, i have seen mixed reactions among my acquaintances. I have found that my black and asian friends have found it easier in many ways finding acceptance than some Portuguese (white) friends. My black and asian friends are all 2nd generation and speak with British accents, while the Portuguese do not. I think the accent and lower standard of English has hindered them to some degree. They are not treated as seriously.

    My Black friends have suffered infrequent verbal abuse in Belfast (spides from both sides) but find that the smaller market towns are more accepting. Which was strange.

  • FraserValley

    JoeCanuck said:
    I live in a multicultural country and it’s wonderful.

    I live in the same place Joe–ain’t it wonderful, no racial or religious bigotry and all welcome.

  • Animus

    Those of you who just know there must be more Chinese/Polish/whatever. How do you know this? From your trips to Dublin? Census figures only give a snapshot for a day – many people come in, stay a few months, leave. Many others decide to stay a bit longer, but you cannot assume that because you saw 10 Polish people on a street corner that every street corner in Ireland has Polish people on it. Elementary logic, people. Try it sometime.

    Attitudinal surveys in England have showed that people think the population of England is something like 13 or 14% ethnic minority. The truth is somewhere around 7.5%. That’s a big difference, but it tends to be because while London is full of minority ethnic and black people, York isn’t. Devon isn’t. Not so many black faces in Caerphilly.

    The high number of people who aren’t “native” isn’t necessarily a scary prospect – many immigrants are working age, and likely therefore to contribute to paying tax.

    Paddy
    Northern Ireland is probably about 98% white – is it a boring, safe place? Why can’t we just go back to the good old days, when racism was good fun and sexism was just a laugh. Damn the PC brigade.

  • PaddyReilly

    Northern Ireland is probably about 98% white – is it a boring, safe place?

    Boring, definitely. Safe: comparatively. At the height of the troubles the murder rate did not reach that of Chicago or Washington in peacetime. And what troubles there were are came from a result of not adhering to the one nation principle.

    I have observed many cases of blatant sexism in swans. The male swans seem to think that because they are stronger they have the right to peck their wives into order. Similarly, in a botanical greenhouse where hummingbirds were introduced the native birds got in and attacked them. Perhaps we should be funding racism and sexism awareness courses for birds? It makes more sense than repairing walls.

  • Animus

    The population density of Chicago or Washington exceeds anything Northern Ireland can produce. The legality of guns only adds to the problem. The sense of one nation identity is outmoded and insular; change can be a positive enrichment, not just a scary ‘other’.

    I know we’re animals, but I would like to think (I’m optimistic) that we have more reason and sense than birds. Although Women’s Aid could probably tell you that lots of males are still pecking their wives into order. Should we just treat physical injury (rebuilding the wall) rather than address the causes of the injury? The mixing of people is seen to be always bad, but look at the problems brought about by royal bloodlines and consanguinous relationships. I certainly prefer to live in a society which is mixed, but I accept there will be problems. I prefer to live an interesting life and many others do too. A society which has too little change turns on itself, cannibalising its own culture over tidbits rather than substantive issues.

  • Murphy

    The Lurgan Spade

    You have clearly taken this out of context. I clearly cant see any citizen here ever been classified as equal to the british island. The siege view of loyalism has only assited in its marginalisation in many areas and a rejection of new non-nationals/new irish, as in south Belfast which has a disgraceful number of rascist attacks. And yes i do agree that rascism is rife in all are communities but it has been bread into children from such a segregrated society. Yes and the second class citizen issue does no exist as it is geographical, clealry the underfunding west of the Bann which has to be addressed by by those east ‘Norn Iron’ fans but clealry the money is been better placed in the hands of local parmilitiaries(disgraceful). Another story for another day. This island is as much your country as it is anyone else’s and hopefully through future development all communties will gain acceptance.

  • joeCanuck

    Sarcasm doesn’t become you Fraservalley.
    Of course all those things exist.
    I simply expressed my personal feeling that I enjoy meeting (and travelling to meet) people of all cultures.
    Most of the people with whom I interact are accepting of immigrants; jeez, most of us are immigrants..
    Blind bigotry hurts the haters (psyche)more so than the people that they hate.

  • Oranges for Sale

    Elvis Parker
    “If that sense of ‘Irishness’ is the old exclusive Catholic Gaelic one then the sooner we lose it the better”

    I didn’t actually specify Catholic Gaelic Irishness brand (I am, in fact Protestant myself). I was simply commenting on the possible impact of mass immigration and the negative effects it could have on society from day to day. ‘Two nations’ states in his blog that Polish is spoken more than Irish which I suppose is fair enough. However we should try to encourage integration rather than multiculturalism and avoid how the English dealt with this issue over the past twenty years.

    joeCanuck
    “I suggest you get a life. I live in a multicultural country and it’s wonderful.”

    Hmmmm, I think the people of the first nation tribes could disagree with you there son ( I assume your Canadian). Oh and by the way, if you do currently live in Canada then I guess you don’t really have the right to lecture me on an Irish issue. You obviously disagree with my views but I think that uncontrolled multiculturalism can will a terrible and irreversible impact our society.

  • DK

    “What does it mean to be English?”

    I think that since the census shows that by far the largest “ethnic” minority in Ireland is the English you are about to find out – never mind the Poles, you just notice them because they speak funny and work counters where you shop. The English are hidden in offices and as housewifes – but there are more than 3 times as many of then than Poles. Why does no-one notice or comment on this – it’s always the Poles or Lithuanians (themselves outnumbered by people from North America)?

  • Harry Flashman

    Yes I know we are supposed to get all starry eyed about immigration and believe me as someone who grew up in Derry in the 1960’s and ’70’s I’m all for leavening the mix a bit with some fresh new blood but just assuming blindly that mass immigration is an unqualified “good thing” is naive and dangerous in the extreme.

    Allow me a disclaimer, I am currently an immigrant in a country different than my birth so I can claim to know a little about which I speak. I am married to a local woman, we have one child, I am doing my darnedest to learn the local language (difficult, as everyone seems very keen to practice their English on me) but I have extremely limited residency rights, for instance I cannot own property. There is almost no way in hell I can ever get citizenship as it involves living for eighteen years in the country, being word perfect fluent in the language and proving an intimate knowledge of the local history and culture (my little fruit salad son doesn’t qualify as an intimate enough acquaintance with the local culture!) and I must renounce all former citizenships.

    But do you know what? That’s fine, these people are entitled to protect their own sense of national identity and to remind me that I am a guest, so why is it unaceptable for Britain or Ireland to do the same?

    The ghettoes of unassimilated (and remarkably getting even more unassimilated with every passing generation) Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the English Midlands cannot in any way be seen as a “good thing”. It is unfair to the native British (if aboriginal Americans can so designate themselves then so can I about aboriginal British) and just as importantly it is deeply unfair to the newcomers.

    Many ‘right on’ people deplore Brits who cluster around expat communities in southern Spain and in France, people who make no effort to interact with the local communities and who insist on retaining their British identity through pubs, shops, newspapers, satellite tv and community groups, yet when one suggests that a similar situation should be unacceptable in the UK one is howled down as a “racist”.

    There should not be any mealy mouthed nonsense about this issue, nations like Denmark and Holland, previously bastions of muti-culti feel goodism have realised that their very national identities are being completely undermined and what is emeging is not at all pleasant. I think a much more robust attitude must be taken towards immigration, I believe it is perfectly in order for a country to “pick and choose” whom it wishes to allow to live in their country, and I think this should include deciding which country’s citizens you are unwilling to accept, if that means allowing more Indians and Chinese whilst excluding Nigerians or Albanians then guess what? That is perfectly fine by me.

    Now please don’t shriek “racist!” at me, but by all means try to convince me why an open door, colour blind (I mean that in a general sense), no questions asked policy of mass immigration is a marvellous idea instead.

  • The Dubliner

    [i]”Those of you who just know there must be more Chinese/Polish/whatever. How do you know this? From your trips to Dublin? Census figures only give a snapshot for a day – many people come in, stay a few months, leave. Many others decide to stay a bit longer, but you cannot assume that because you saw 10 Polish people on a street corner that every street corner in Ireland has Polish people on it. Elementary logic, people. Try it sometime.”[/i]

    Try it yourself, kid. You contradict yourself by admitting that the census is merely a “snapshot” and then asserting that it is the absolute authority.

    Perhaps it might have occurred to you that their are other sources for the information such as the Polish Ambassador to Ireland, Witold Sobkow, accepting a figure for the number of Polish immigrants that is almost double that stated in the census or others putting the figure at up to 180,000?

  • The Dubliner

    Good post, Harry Flashman. Let us have facts and intelligent analysis as opposed to shrill cries of “racist, bigot, monoculturalist’” from those asinine posters whose contributions amount to no more than masturbating their smug liberal egos in public for the cheap voyeuristic kudos of their uncomprehending ilk.

  • Animus

    I’m not claiming the census is an authority – I am saying that people’s impressions are unreliable. The census is a snapshot but it’s better what a couple of pub philosophers comment on what they see from the bar stool.

    I am an immigrant myself, so I know what Harry’s talking about. And even though I frequently disagree with him on a number of issues, I do agree that immigration should be monitored and that governments should be able to limit the numbers. However, immigration between EU countries cannot be subject to this provision.

    There is a middle ground between blindly letting everyone in, everywhere and claiming that immigration will tear countries apart. I am trying to find that middle ground. From my experience of working with Danes, and in Denmark, the problems which exist are not on such a scale to undermine the whole country. The Danes worry about social ills in a different way than Ireland or the UK (their social welfare schemes are brilliant and people tend not to moan so much about paying high tax) so their understanding of integration is also approached in a different way.

    Holland is a different case, but I think the high profile cases (murders) which exist and the shock accompanying them indicates much about the multi-cultural project. For those who wish it to fail, any upset is a feather in their cap. But it would be interesting to see the true level of integration. In parts of Holland, there is significantly more grumbling about Germans than any other “group”.

  • slug

    As someone who LIKES multiracial cities such as London, I have always tried looking for variegation in Dublin and Belfast. There is some but the 98% white figure from that census just stares you in the face.

  • Phil McAvity

    Harry is 100% right, there is a big difference between multi-culturism and immigration. Despite what some people may think England, like Ireland needs a certain level of immigration but the problem has been that for the past 25 years or so the government and local authorities have bent over backwards to accomodate the various cultures that these people have brought with them. This has created a sense of seperateness because the immigrants have not had to try to integrate into English society and many have chosen to opt out of embracing an English way of life and have had the full support of our elected representatives in doing this. Immigration is not a threat to our respective national identities but multi-culturism is.

  • JG

    In The Netherlands after September 11th a Dutch TV crew was shocked by how much some immigrants hated Dutch society. Initially this was put down to the interviews taking place in Rotterdam and they thought that they would get a better reaction in Amsterdam.

    This yielded the same result.

  • Greenflag

    German American ,

    ‘Just under 12 per cent of the US population was born outside the US (33 million people in total). ‘

    That may be a census figure but there are also 10 million or so ‘illegal immigrants who may /may not be included in that figure .

    It’s also a statistical fact that the children of immigrants form a higher percentage of the USA’s younger population than the US born . This ‘phenomenon’ is also replicated in all western countries which have imigrant populations . The reasons for this are due to the social mores /customs etc extant in the immigrants country of origin .

  • Co-cheese

    “Just under 12 per cent of the US population was born outside the US (33 million people in total)”

    Yeah, but 96.3% of the US population are descended from people born outside the (present-day)US within the relatively recent past.

    People immigrate en masse – countries, cultures and languages change beyond recognition – get over it, white folks. (anyway, it’s not like Ireland has some kind of a distinctive culture that needs protection)

  • German-American

    Greenflag: “That may be a census figure but there are also 10 million or so ‘illegal’ immigrants who may /may not be included in that figure.”

    According to the Center for Immigration Studies, the US Census figure of approximately 33 million foreign-born US residents includes approximately 8-9 million illegal immigrants. Other estimates go as high as 20 million. If we assume the highest quoted figure then the total foreign-born population in the US would be about 44-45 million out of a population of around 3000 million (at the time these surveys were done), or approximately 15 per cent.

    The above numbers are a bit inexact because of the differing times the estimates were made. However I think it’s fair to say that the US foreign-born population is likely in the range of 10-15 per cent, and definitely doesn’t exceed 20 per cent. If you added in US-born children of foreign-born residents then the figure for recent immigrants and their children would obviously be higher, but I don’t have time to look up the data on that right now.

    Note that the US government publication “The Foreign-Born Population in the United States, March 2000” has lots of nifty statistics from the 2000 US census.

  • Brian Boru

    The figures on Chinese (11,000) are almost certainly a drastic underestimate by as much as 10-1. Most Chinese are here illegally – having come to the country on student-visas, before disappearing into the black-economy. They are required to register with the authorities but hardly any actually do so. The fact that around 1/3rd of dwellings were supposedly ‘unoccupied’ i.e. noone answered the door to the census-enumators speaks volumes – doubtless many were in fact inhabited by illegal-immigrants who have outstayed student-visas.

    On the Polish thing it is generally believed in our media that far more are in fact here. However they have less reason to hide from the authorities as they are perfectly legally entitled to live here as EU citizens. So 63,000 is probably closer to the truth – suggesting most went back to Poland. But even so, the fact that our population of non-nationals has nearly doubled in the 4 yrs since the last census raises disturbing questions as to the sustainability of such a massive-influx – especially – in the week when the Galway water-crisis became big news – in the context of the inevitable strains immigration imposes on social-infrastructure. I think it’s high time this issue – together with Irish Ferries’type issues of exploitation and displacement of labour – moved to the top of political-debate here in the South. A Green candidate in Dublin (I think Dublin West) has now admitted on his blog that immigration is coming up on the doorsteps and that is welcome – even if the patronising tone from the leftwing parties on it is unwelcome.

  • Greenflag

    German-American ,

    Thanks for the info and the site .

  • BP1079

    The fact that around 1/3rd of dwellings were supposedly ‘unoccupied’ i.e. noone answered the door to the census-enumators speaks volumes – doubtless many were in fact inhabited by illegal-immigrants who have outstayed student-visas.

    or by “native” Irish who didn’t want to be disturbed when Eastenders was on. Or who were frightened it was the taxman/bailiffs/a boring friend. Or, who were simply not at home.

    But even so, the fact that our population of non-nationals has nearly doubled in the 4 yrs since the last census raises disturbing questions as to the sustainability of such a massive-influx – especially – in the week when the Galway water-crisis became big news – in the context of the inevitable strains immigration imposes on social-infrastructure.

    As a matter of interest, what’s the latest unemployment rate, GDP per capita figure; how do they compare to, say 1987, before all these *non-nationals* decided to impose their strain on your social infra-structure?

  • Garibaldy

    Does anyone else think it’s significant that people from the North are counted as non-nationals? Surely there should be howls of outrage from northern nationalists? Or have I missed some in my quick race through this blog.

    As for integrating people, every person living in the state should be treated the same as every other one. And while people should be welcome to keep up their linguistic, cultural and religious traditions, all should be taught the same, and should learn the first and second languages of the state. The French idea of all as citizens in the Republic is the correct one, even if its application there leaves a lot to be desired.

  • John East Belfast

    I am not sure what all the fuss is about on this therad from Harry Flashman and Dubliner etc.

    The vast majority on this list are from the rest of the British Isles who have been flowing around these islands for genrations – infact many are probably only coming home.

    The rest are also mostly other Europeans from within the EU and if you want free movement of capital & goods etc then you have to accept free movement of Labour.

    As for the 100,000 Africans and Asians the former will probably advance the ROI soccer team in a couple of generations and the latter will raise the intellectual gene pool.

    ie these figures are very encouraging.

    They do look low though for Poles etc.

    However they do show that a Gaelic and Culturally Catholic ethos should not possess the “soul” of the Irish State.

  • The Dubliner

    John, the influx of immigrants is a mix of EU and non-EU nationals, and a mix of workers and asylum seekers. 34% of those who entered the country during 2000-2003, for example, were non-EU asylum seekers. Ireland does have control over both categories, but has less control over the former than the latter.

    It is interesting to note that only 39 people applied for in asylum 1992, a period when Ireland had negative net migration and an underperforming economy, as opposed to 7,724 who applied for asylum a mere seven years later in 1999, when Ireland’s Celtic Tiger began to gain international attention. Now, a cynic might claim that such a huge jump from 39 asylum seekers in one year (1992) to a thousand plus per month today indicates that people are not choosing the first refuge (as one does in an alleged crisis) but as choosing the most comfortable one – that, in essence, they are freeloaders masquerading as asylum seekers. We cannot be expected to accept an influx of people who are a burden upon the state. Here, rightly, we need to tighten up controls.

    We do have controls over EU non-Irish nationals in that they are not allowed to stay here for more than three months unless they look for work and are not entitled to unemployment benefits for two years. We can also choose to issue work permits and set quotas for new member states such as those 10 countries from the Eastern Bloc (former communist). Unfortunately, in contrast to the labour immigration programs of other European countries, we are far too liberal in that we do not regulate by quotas to exclude low-skilled workers from entry. This absence of a ‘skills-based’ policy is a fatal flaw as low-skilled workers are the most vulnerable to economic downturn; and consequently, the most likely to become a burden upon the state. In contrast, skilled labour is highly mobile – and will simply exit the state when it is no longer needed. Employers Federations are in favour on the low-skilled as they are naturally in favour of paying lower wages and the increased pool of low-paid workers. But while employers benefit during the upturn, the state loses during the downturn when these low paid workers can’t find work and become a burden upon the state. Ergo, cast a sceptical eye upon the myopic perspectives and vested interests of such federations.

  • The Dubliner

    “Does anyone else think it’s significant that people from the North are counted as non-nationals? Surely there should be howls of outrage from northern nationalists?” – Galbaldy

    Well, to some of us, Belfast will always be Ireland’s second city, even if PSF helped negotiate the removal of Articles 2 & 3 which laid claim to it and consolidated the position of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom by accepting its legitimacy, serving in Her Majesty’s administration as her loyal servants and using “Northern Ireland” in the official seals of office and ministerial letterheads instead of references such as “the six counties/the statelet/the north/etc” that they use while on the campaign trail.

  • JG

    What are the NI figures like?

  • George

    Dubliner,
    “Now, a cynic might claim that such a huge jump from 39 asylum seekers in one year (1992) to a thousand plus per month today indicates that people are not choosing the first refuge (as one does in an alleged crisis) but as choosing the most comfortable one – that, in essence, they are freeloaders masquerading as asylum seekers.”

    Or else you could look at the figures in detail and see that you are way out with your thousand a month, it’s a third of that.

    Also, if you looked at the figures for the EU between 2001 and 2005, you would see that nearly 2 million people claimed asylum, with just 2% of the figure applying in Ireland.

    That makes Ireland the 13th most popular destination in the EU, less popular than the Czech Republic and just ahead of Poland.

    The figure in 2005 dropped to 1.64%

    Which goes to show that cynics, like virtually everyone else, are usually wrong when it comes to asylum seekers.