Remember David beat Goliath

The PUP’s Party Election Broadcast is now online at Youtube. It is built around the new leader, Dawn Purvis, with strong references to the late David Ervine. It avoids the minutiae of St Andrews and policy emphasising values, vision and aspiration. Their website is to go live again on 28th February1st March at 12 noon.

  • Youtube seems very apt for the PUP to broadcast on. No mention of UVF terror and criminality then. eh? The politics of fear indeed.

  • Best broadcast so far.
    Can’t help get the feeling that the old line/lie peddled by the DUP: that they’re the good guys and loyalist paramilitaries are the bad guys is a whole heap of shite.
    Its obvious the difference is about class.
    Good luck to you Dawn Purvis.

  • parcifal

    Yes but David, you’re all about the past and not the future. Its of the utmost importance for your political views to keep it going that you condemn people to their past.
    I’d say there’s a dwindling audience for that view, but hey we’ll see at election time!

  • interested07

    I’d agree with parcifal, it’s the only broadcast I wouldn’t turn over the channel in boredom if was watching a repeat.

    Best of Luck Dawn.

  • electionjunkie

    Its a great PEB, looks and feels professional, its a tough year for them and will be a tough election, I hope people will vote for them, if they were running in my area I would vote for them.

    My only criticism (there has always to be one!) is that maybe they should have shown more candidates rather than just Dawn Purvis.

  • BonarLaw

    electionjunkie

    “maybe they should have shown more candidates rather than just Dawn Purvis”

    Why do you think they didn’t? Could it be that Ms Purvis is the best at hiding the unacceptable face of the PUP that is the UVF?

  • Was that a Dove flying across the sky at the beginning? A new dawn breaks, eh? God how gullible are some….

  • At one level I agree with David Vance as far as the PUP go – all mouth and no delivery, up to their oxters in gangsterism and extortion.

    On another level, this is a really, really, good PEB and if Dawn Purvis somehow does manage to hold her seat then she can probably credit this with a large part of it.

  • Greenflag

    She looks genuine -sounds earnest and God love her probably means what she says . For voters concerned about deprivation in the loyalist community she’s certainly worth a vote . Given the scarcity of females among Unionist candidates Dawn should attract the female vote if only to tell the larger parties that the wee weemen make up 50 % of the vote ! .

    Lets hope it’s a new dawn for Dawn- and that she can continue the work begun by David Ervine .

  • bigwhitehalo

    Sammy,

    “up to their oxters in gangsterism and extortion. ” I take it you know most of the membership of the party well enough to talk knowledgely about them. It is quite offensive to the integrity of people in the party who are trying to bring reform (successful or not). Most other people don’t have an answer except to mouth off about it.

    Paramilitaries will only listen and be influenced when they want to listen, that’s a fact of life. I think people forget this sometimes.

  • BigWhiteHalo – 13 years into a peace process, it’s high time for delivery. Very high time indeed. Fair dos to those in the PUP who are trying, as acknowledged by the IMC report. But for as long as the UVF retain their aresnal you will be judged by the standards of those you ‘share an insight into the thinking of’.

    If you can explain to be what battering an innocent and defenseless man like David Templeton to death in his own home had to do with defending loyalism, I’ll buy you a pint. That incident tells me all I need to know about the UVF and its acolytes.

  • bigwhitehalo

    Sammy,

    The party and the election broadcast is in relation to the party. They’re a separate entity to the UVF, contrary to public myth. If we want to get into who talks to who in political circles we could easily work all the way back to the alliance party over the divide into nationlism and back again. I would doubt you really think Dawn or anyone else is actually sitting at home at night mapping out who to give a kicking to next. And for example, for one North Down MP and one East Belfast MP to come out with rhetoric about Mr Ervine and the party in the recent past, then turn up at his funeral the following month just says it all for some others in political circles.

    13 years is a long time, maybe you should have a go at it, talk some sense into the paramilitaries. Like I said, influence is only headed when people want to head it.

    On a lighter note, Im glad you gave credit for the broadcast. It is a good one, agree.

  • gareth mccord

    TO ALL PUP/UVF PERSONNEL,
    wise up wake up and leave the working class alone!
    you have never brought anything to us but murder crime and drugs. you only fool yourselfs if yous think that you care or would actually do something that is worthwhile to our areas. the one and only thing that we want is for the pup/uvf murderers drug dealers extortionists pimps bully boys to dissappear and let the loyalist working class people live their own lives.a few questions i would like the pup/uvf to answer is
    1.WHY DID THE PUP NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE MOUNT VERMIN UVF 9 YEARS AGO WHEN IN A MEETING WITH DAVID ERVINE AND BUNTER SPENCE THEY WERE TOLD BY US THAT THEY ARE INFORMERS ALLOWED TO KILL ?
    2.WHY DID THE PUP/UVF NOT HELP THE POLICE OMDUDSMAN WITH THEIR INVESTIGATION EVEN THOUGH THE NOW LEADER IS ON THE POILCING BOARD?
    3.WHY ARE THE UVF STILL TARGETING FOR MURDER?
    4.WHY ARE THE UVF STILL SELLING DRUGS(SANCTIONED)?
    5.WHY WILL DAWN PURVIS NOT MEET THE VICTIMS OF MOUNT VERMIN?
    6.WHY DID THE UVF KILL SO MANY PROTESTANTS SINCE THE “CEASEFIRE”?
    7. WHY DO THE PUP DENY AND IGNORE VICTIMS OF UVF?
    8.WHY IS THE “INFORMANT 2” GARY HEGGARTY MARRIED TO PUP MEMBERS THE ROBINSONS AND COMMANDER OF THE UVF IS THIS JUST A COINCIDENCE?
    9.WHY WILL YOUS NOT ANSWER ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS AND DENY AGAIN THE TRUTH FOR WORKING CLASS ULSTER?
    i just wish that the good people of east belfast and n.ireland realise that their always has been one leader of the pup ,not ervine or purvis but the uvf under the orders of bunter graham who decides what strings to pull on the puppets of purvis and fellow gangsters!!!

  • Valenciano

    >> “maybe they should have shown more candidates rather than just Dawn Purvis”

    Why do you think they didn’t? Could it be that Ms Purvis is the best at hiding the unacceptable face of the PUP that is the UVF? << Probably. Although the question 'what other candidates?' sprang to mind first.

  • Diluted Orange

    For me, however jazzy the PUP election broadcast is, it will have the same effect on me as Sinn Fein’s PEB. i.e. they are/were linked to paramilitary organisations who maimed and killed and continue to do so. It’s all very nice talking about progress but when you’ve got an arsenal and a band of drug-dealers behind you I wouldn’t expect many people to take them seriously. Likewise I won’t be jumping onto what seems to be a very large bandwagon in NI at the moment: the canonisation of David Irvine in the wake of his death. A man of peace … pull the other one.

    The situation the Unionist working class find themselves in is a crying shame because the PUP purport to represent them, when loyalist terrorists, more than anyone else, consistently kept that community down, through extortion, drug dealing and even so far as killing their own people with impunity. The saying that such ‘loyalists’ are more loyal to the half-crown than to the crown is very appropriate.

    Dawn Purvis is at least correct when she asserts that the loyalist community needs political representation because, let’s face it, the UUP and the DUP have long washed their hands of the Unionist working class. Paisley, McCrea, Robinson etc try to distance themselves from loyalist terror groups yet these guys have at various times in their political careers shared platforms with members of such organisations and/or have called for a rise to arms amongst the Unionist community if things didn’t go their way. Now, with hindsight and with an eye to ostracising SF, they conveniently forget their own murky, yet arguably not just as corrosive, pasts.

    I loathe Loyalist and Republican paramilitaries with equal measure but at least the IRA has been removed from Sinn Fein’s politics.

  • observer

    The party and the election broadcast is in relation to the party. They’re a separate entity to the UVF, contrary to public myth –

    Sounds just like the shinners

  • observer

    the UUP and the DUP have long washed their hands of the Unionist working class. –

    What? who the hell do you think votes for the DUP – this is a despicable myth that working class people only voted for terrorists to represent them.

    as past voting shows – working class unionists REJECT the PUP overwhelmingly and have opted in the main for the DUP to speak for them

  • interested

    “forgotten heroes – bring them in from the cold”.

    I’m sorry – as a unionist and a (true) loyalist the modern day people who stole the name of the UVF will never be and can never be described as heroes.

    Drug dealing gangsters just doesnt sound as well for garnering votes I suppose….

  • Hugo ‘In a personal capacity’ Rudd

    I think this is the best PEB I’ve seen, although IMHO it could have done with better PUP branding at the end.

    She’s good. She’s a good performer, and she may be the force which can lift the party and its supporters from their past.

    I looked at it and just felt hopeful, for them, for their chances and for peace.

    They need to shed the bad guys, and perhaps she’s the break with the past they need.

  • Crataegus

    A land of forgotten heroes brought in from the cold. I wonder who they are?

    The PUP are a dead end, a waste of time. Working class communities need representatives that have nothing to do with gangsters. They need people who will represent their interests and not a pack of sycophants who run around making excuses for the inexcusable. (As many in the DUP and UUP do)

    There should be no room for criminals. They don’t need political parties they need imprisoned.

    Gareth McCord
    Good points. I cannot understand why people would vote for any party that is associated with organisations that murder, intimidate and sell drugs when there are alternatives to vote for. Even more mystifying is why anyone would want to be a representative under such circumstances.

  • Abdul-Rahim

    Wohw that was really good i’m wicked impressed! For real!

  • Diluted Orange

    observer

    [i]What? who the hell do you think votes for the DUP – this is a despicable myth that working class people only voted for terrorists to represent them.[/i]

    If you’re going to come out with such outlandish statements on my behalf then at least read what I actually said in my post. Not once did I infer that the loyalist community voted enmass for the PUP, they only got 1 MLA into the Assembly after the last election for goodness’ sake!

    I was referring to the fact that the UUP and DUP have traditionally neglected the working class in their own community (and as far as the DUP goes, even incited a small number of members of that community to violence through their irresponsible speeches). Contrary to the Unionist working class not voting for UUP/DUP, those parties know that they can depend on that section of the population for their votes and so have no qualms about treating that section of the population like shit. DUP members and the like think they only have to turn up and march on the 12th July with members of the working class and then for the rest of the year they can ignore them.

    IMO there is a huge class divide in Unionism, as highlghted quite a bit recently by no-one else than Gerry Adams, and it needs to be addressed. A political front for drug-dealers and thugs, such as what I believe the PUP is, is not going to solve the deprivation that exists in such areas of Northern Ireland.

  • pupmember

    I have been a member of the PUP for over 10 years and I never fail to be disappointed by the attitude of many to the party I belong, this thread being a perfect example – ‘drug dealers and gangsters’ this is so far from the truth it is unreal – but you wont believe me.

    While I continue to be disappointed with the response, I don’t see what it is we can actually do about it. It is possible that we could break our links with the UVF/RHC (although even these are much much much less influential/connected than the wider public seem to assume. Even then the majority of the critics would still then spout about our ‘past’ regardless.

    But then what?…………the UVF/RHC would be even further cut of from the process, even more likely to turn to what you call drug dealing and gangsterism. The way I see it, dealing with loyalist paramilitarism is not a popular job, it is certainly not a vote winner, but someone has to do it, same way as someone had to drag along the IRA kicking and screaming to begin with into this process.

    As far as I am concerned it is people like that, who worked with the most difficult elements of our peace process, who are responsible for us being so far down the road to solution….yes that means David Ervine in my book, but it also means Gerry Adams and John Hume and several others.

    It is simple to say paramilitaries exist, are bad people and should go away but it wont actually solve the problem.

    For the record, as I say I have been a member of the PUP for over 10 years and I do not have any and I mean any time for paramilitaries but I do have time for people who want to really change this place we call home.

    I have been involved on and off with the PUP for a long time, but I am really invigorated by the appointment and push of Dawn Purvis, she is certainly a long way from the stereotype that people think the PUP are, as is Cllr Dr John Kyle who will be a huge shock to people’s preconceptions. I am delighted we are making this visual transformation, to match the reality of branch membership.

  • pupmember

    Sorry forgot to actually mention the broadcast which was the whole point.

    I am delighted with how it has been finished and glad that it is so different from the jungle drums of the DUP and SF efforts.

  • I Wonder

    The UVF and PUP have come to realise that a military solution to our conflict is not possible. Regretfully, and incredibly in 2007, some believe that the military *total war* solution should have been pursued and hanker after “war war” rather than any “jaw jaw.”

    As there was no “total war”, most of us are still alive, glad to be so, and utterly refuse to accept allegations of “gullibility” from those who could not and will never secure a democratic mandate for their views.

  • Nevin

    “Dr John Kyle”

    Did John oppose the PUP/UVF ‘cleansing’ of Garnerville as the PSNI officers looked on? In the canine world folks usually have more fear of a rottweiler than a cairn terrier – whereas in the parapolitical world the governments now avail of the ‘services’ of the big dogs to put manners on the little ones.

    Maybe the glencairn terrier is really a rebadged rottweiler ….

  • bruce201

    I bet Hitler could have put together a great PEB. Does anybody believe that the PUP is worth voting for just because they can pay for a PEB from their gangsterism and get it done professionally. It will take more than a con job for Purvis to take Copeland’s seat. He is more than her match.

  • I Wonder

    Bruce

    No doubt you are a professional auditor with experience and insight which surpasses that of the ARA in order to justify your assertion that Ms. Purvis et al’s PEB is backed by illegally obtained funds?

    No?

    I thought not.

  • Diluted Orange

    First line of PEB:

    “What would happen if you took the fear out of the politics ..”

    Expressed by the spokesperson for the only party left in the Assembly that is the voice of a fully-armed paramilitary organisation. Such irony surely deserves to be mentioned alongside that picture of the Celtic fan waving the “No Foreign Games” placard outside Croke Park in the other thread.

  • darth rumsfeld

    hear hear DO

  • interested

    bruce
    “It will take more than a con job for Purvis to take Copeland’s seat. He is more than her match.”

    I’ve made my views on the PUP known but your comments are interesting. Purvis isn’t after Copeland’s seat – she wants to retain Ervines.

    Why would you think she is? Sounds like there is a little panic on the good ship East Belfast UUP. The complete lack of vote management in the constituency should massively favour Empey and lets face it, the whiff of past scandals havent all drifted away from Copeland yet. Rodgers, well he’s just a serial loser.

    Maybe the East Belfast result will be 3DUP, 1UUP, 1PUP, 1ALL……….

  • I Wonder

    Also somewhat ironic is the fact that the Northern Ireland state was formed due to the existence of and threat posed by a fully armed paramilitary organisation. Its weapons were obtained from a state which was fought by the very country that those paramilitaries swore allegaince in a world war.

    I call it both ironic, hypocritical and treason.

    Not ONE Unionist has ever responded here to the hypocrisy of condemning the UVF during the years of the recent Troubles and Unionists endorsing violence, threat, fear as posed by the UVF (1912)

  • godiambored

    Some silly claims, the PUP will have to account for their money and what it was spent on, so obviously not ‘money from ‘gangsterism” what is it people think the PUP do, its just unbelievable some of the rubbish thats written here on topics (PUP being only 1)

    I think it was a good Broadcast and well made.

    I agree with whoever critiqued the Copeland comments, Michael Copeland has a seat to lose as does Dawn Purvis, fairly unrelated.

  • bruce

    Is anyone seriously saying that the PUP has hoards of honest contributors offering money to a party making its exit from politics. Come off it! If you live in a loyalist estate, as I do, you will know they are up to their eyes in extortion. There is no line between the UVF and the PUP though admittedly some of the UVF always voted for Robinson rather than Ervine.
    It was always going to be unlikely that Ervine would be returned – all it needed was the DUP to get its vote management sorted out – but now that Ervine has gone does anyone believe that Purvis will hold the Ervine vote. Most of those who I know who voted for Ervine do not intend to vote for the new Dawn.

  • I Wonder

    Bruce:

    2990 people in East Belfast voted for David Ervine in 2003. Are you saying these are all
    extortionists or UVF members?

    Regretfully, Dawn Purvis has not had sufficient time to establish a presence in the constituency since David’s death, but it isn’t clear to me (nor, I suspect, to your fellow loyalist neighbours) that the best interests of an urban working class group is served by a party that includes in its ranks the likes of Rev. Wm. McCrea…

  • Diluted Orange

    I Wonder

    I gather that what you are trying to say, in a round about way, is that the UVF of 1912 was just as bad as the UVF of 1969 – ?. So I imagine for parity’s sake that the IRA of 1916 was just as bad as the IRA of 1969 – ?.

    You are applying the same context to entirely different eras of history – the sacrifices made by the earlier versions of each group set them apart from their bloodthirsty successors. Ireland at the turn of the last century was a very troubled and very different place. Scary times indeed. The UVF and IRA/IVF organisations of that period had a lot more popular support amongst their communities than their more recent manifestations ever had.

    One should not try to condone the sectarian violence of that era, of which members of those particular groups were involved in. However, members of the IVF and the UVF didn’t just wage war against each other but they also fought for the Crown in the Great War of 1914-18, as soldiers, for the safety of their fellow countrymen and 1,000’s of them paid the ultimate price. As such they did an awful lot more for Britain and Ireland than their more recent namesakes ever did.

    You probably won’t find any Unionist criticism of the UVF of 1912 forthcoming because they were essentially set up by Carson and Craig; the founding fathers of the Unionist movement, to oppose Home Rule in the event of it being imposed on Ulster by the British government.

  • bruce

    I Wonder
    No. Of course I am not suggesting that all PUP VOTERS are extortionists nor are they in the UVF. Many of them are simply deceived by the pretence surrounding the organisation. The PEB hides the reality of the party which, no matter how you package it is an ugly terrorist-linked organisation.
    It is also noticed that Dawn is from South Belfast. As for McCrea – don’t start me. No party deserves him but thankfully he is not directing the DUP’s fortunes or we would never get stability.

  • I Wonder

    DO:

    Precisely, I won’t have any Unionist prepared to condemn yesterday’s Loyalist paramilitaries and murderers – because they were successful in establishing a Loyal state.

    For precisely the reason that their violence was successful, some Republicans might see that as validating its use and that Unionism is an “ugly terrorist linked organisation”…? Unionists, on the other hand, appear somewhat myopic on the “success” of their own violence.

    But, thanks for agreeing with me.

    Bruce:

    I think over 5000 voted for him in 1998. Some of us might have wished for that to be the start of a class-based Loyalist party that would effectively challenge the clericalism of the DUP.

    Alas…

  • godiambored

    bruce,

    You are so completely mistaken by that myth, I know alot of PUP members (although I have never taken that plunge myself…I am a voter.) they all to a man and woman wish that the UVF and all loyalist paramilitaries would move further and quicker, they all condemn any form of extortion or illegal activity and despise those involved exactly because it discredits Loyalism.

    I think one of our phantom investigative journalists should do a profile piece on a PUP branch and its members, that would be so interesting and a huge shock to most.

  • bruce

    “I think one of our phantom investigative journalists should do a profile piece on a PUP branch and its members, that would be so interesting and a huge shock to most.”

    I wish they would. I could show them the pedigree of many of their leading members in East Belfast.

    Why do I get the impression you are a PUP apologist? Nobody objectively would recognise your description of the PUP.

  • Disinterested

    When are we going to have a serious discussion about the lack of political progress in Northern Ireland?

    It’s obvious that there are bitter people out there who think that by blowing hot air at a problem that it will simply go away. What about those working class Protestants who never became involved in paramilitary gangsterism and who actually see some political vision in what the PUP’s policies?

    In any case, for those who became involved in paramilitarism for gangsterism – as one person above refers to it – (and I agree that all paramilitary groups have gangsters and socio-paths in their ranks) – then the long arm of the law must apply rigorously. How would PUP member respond to that statement?

  • gareth mccord

    PUPMEMBER AND THE REST OF THE BALOON HEADS!!
    why dont yous have the answers to my questions in my previous post as you claim to know alot about pup/uvf?
    do yous honestly beleive the uvf arent controlled by shankill command (bunter)?
    do yous honestly believe that the pup arent largely funded by the blood money of the uvf?
    why wont the pup demand that the uvf stop targeting for murder i.e. raymond mccord and that people with info to give to the police on the uvf murders since their “CEASEFIRE”?
    WHY IS ALL UNIONIST POLITICIANS DEMAND S.F.TO PROVE TO EVERYONE THAT THEY ACCEPT AND CO OPERATE WITH POLICE INVESTIGATIONS WHEN THEIR OWN COMMUNITY HAS BEEN KILLED BY UVF/PUP AND THEY ARE LEFT ALONE, WITH THE FACTS IN THE OMBUDSMAN REPORT?

  • godiambored

    Bruce

    now you are just making things up, I know East Belfast PUP people and none match your discription, perhaps either you are mistaken or people who are not members of the PUP are claiming to be.

  • bruce201

    godiambored
    I think I know them better than anyone. I have them as my neighbours. I see their activities. I live in the area. You are simply trying to whitewash their activities. The people I am talking about were in the group who were out canvassing with Dawn Purvis.

  • PUP folks, you have a choice:

    1. Cut the links to the UVF and we’ll take you seriously as a democratic party.

    2. Continue as you are and we’ll take you as the antiseptic PR front for some of the worst low life to be found in any society.

    Simple.

  • David

    To Dis-interested. It has long been the PUP’s stated policy that anyone involved in criminal activity should be dealt with by the law. Stated endlessly by D. Ervine over the years.
    Still the same.

  • godiambored

    bruce

    I don’t want to whitewash anything and have no reason to do so. I just think you are mistaken….and I live there too.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “It has long been the PUP’s stated policy that anyone involved in criminal activity should be dealt with by the law. Stated endlessly by D. Ervine over the years.
    Still the same.”

    …. and yet when John Allen was murdered in Ballyclare, the same Davy Dictionary was able to tell his grieving father that this was not a sanctioned operation, but a freelance by a UVF member.

    So he had the intelligence that could have given the police leads to result in a conviction,never mind clean up a problem in an organisation to which he gave advice, but funnily enough I don’t remember any PUP member making the only statements that count-to the police.

    All Mr Allen’s family got was the usual “terrible tragedy, should never have happened” cant. As worthless as the two faced hypocrisy from Adams over Jean McConville and a thousand others.

    And at least the Shinners can claim to have dumped arms- the PUP were never interested in turning in those guilty of the crime of posession of firearms

  • yeah

    darth

    David Ervine as leader of the PUP held regular meetings with senior police officers in an attempt to ensure policing was working efficiently in loyalist areas.

    Do you honestly think that
    (a) Davy Ervine knew in advance about these attacks……
    (b)actually knew who the individuals responsible were

    I put it to you that he would have heard about the incidents the same time as the rest of us…on the news…then slapped his bald head and said ‘What the hell are these people trying to do to us/me’ (country/party/individual)

    I think he dealt with these things as best he could, he always heard about them too late, always condemned them and said it shouldn’t have happened and regularly met the police and loyalists in an attempt to make sure it didn’t happen again….exactly how else could he have dealt with this.

  • David

    Is it not wonderful that Dawn Purvis generates the greatest interest in this election. Thank you bloggers.

  • I wonder…

    Yeah..yeah 🙂

  • gareth mccord

    DAVID YEAH AND FELLOW EMPTY HEADS!!
    why do you fail to see and hear what is loud and totally transparent to the decent people of n.ireland. the uvf/pup are not and will not be accepted because of the murders, drugs, racketeering, prostitution and continual targeting for murder and intimidation of all which the pup deny and ignore. the reason dawn creates a bit of interest is not down to her but the party she belongs to which leader is not her, but bunter graham(FACT)!!
    the other interest is the digust and anger of the decent people at so called democrats who refuse to accept or admit their own actions!!
    AGAIN I WONDER WHY THE BLOGGERS WHO DEFEND THE PUP/UVF ANSWER MY FIRST POSTS ON THIS TOPIC?
    SORRY I DONT WONDER AND IM SURE THE REST OF US DONT EITHER!(YOU CANNOT WILL NOT AND ARE ASHAMED TO ADMIT IT)!!