IRA plot vandalised

The republican plot in Milltown has been vandalised in an overnight attack.

  • Aaron McDaid

    Are they actually graves, or merely a set of memorial plaques? When I visited it myself, I couldn’t really work out for certain what it was. Can anyone confirm that the names on the stones (see the photograph in the BBC article) all refer to bodies in that precise area?

  • SuperSoupy

    Aaron,

    The article makes it clear they are graves.

    I was surprised to learn so many British soldiers are buried in the graveyard. Less surprised that Nationalists do not desecrate their graves.

  • Aaron McDaid

    SuperSoupy,
    I read the article, I’m just not confident it’s entirely accurate.

  • SuperSoupy

    Aaron,

    It is accurate. They are graves.

  • mnob

    SuperSoupy – I’m surprised that your surprised. There are a great many Irish men and women (from all denominations and from all parts of the island) currently serving in the British army.

    Its an inconvenient truth for some – but a truth none the less.

  • Alan

    “I was surprised to learn so many British soldiers are buried in the graveyard.”

    I’m more surprised that they know exactly how many! Why do the count ?

  • Aaron McDaid

    mnob,
    A correction : SuperSoupy said he was less (i.e. not) surprised there isn’t more desecration of British Army plots.

  • Desecendancy again

    “I was surprised to learn so many British soldiers are buried in the graveyard. Less surprised that Nationalists do not desecrate their graves” – beautiful, just beautiful. I think we have an Olympic-standard entrant here. Well done that man. In fact, like a good wine I need to roll that one round the tongue one more time: “[I was] less surprised that Nationalists do not desecrate their graves”. Marvelous. The very idea that nationalists would do something so wicked – shocking, unthinkable, impossible. What’s that you’re saying at the back? What? Some of the buried Provos might have done something just a teensy weensy bit worse than smashing up some stones? Ah away with you, mumbling securocrat. the very idea. Nationalists, doing something bad . . . I mean, seriously, get a grip.

  • Yokel

    Nationalists never do anything bad, ever..everyone knows that….

  • darth rumsfeld

    …er, have not the City Council already removed many of the actual headstones to prevent desecration of the british army graves?

  • Dec

    Some of the buried Provos might have done something just a teensy weensy bit worse than smashing up some stones?

    There’s a whole new level of moral equivocation at play when desecration of over 60 graves is described as ‘smashing up some stones’. Bear in mind that the deceased is not the target here but rather the grieving families.

  • Aaron McDaid

    Dec,
    I’m reminding of a comment here on Slugger a few months back which went something along the lines of:

    — Protesting for Dummies —
    Things to avoid:
    * Children
    * Schools
    * Graves
    * Memorials

  • Dec

    er, have not the City Council already removed many of the actual headstones to prevent desecration of the british army graves?

    Er, no they haven’t.
    BCC does not maintain Milltown Cemetery which is owned by the Catholic Church. So whatever feeble ‘whataboutery’ you were attempting to introduce into the thread can be nipped in the bud here and now. Back to under the bridge with you!

  • Northsider

    Bear in mind that the deceased is not the target here but rather the grieving families.

    And someone is quoted as saying some graves were deliberately untouched.

    Hmmmm….

  • TB

    Supersoupy, you said:

    I was surprised to learn so many British soldiers are buried in the graveyard. Less surprised that Nationalists do not desecrate their graves.”

    The clear implication of your statement is that you believe that only unionists or loyaists could have desecrated the republican graves. And furthermore, that no nationalist would commit such an act because… well, we are morally superior.

    The yellow paint and the fact that certain graves were deliberately left untouched might point not to loyalists, but dissident republicans.

    The yellow paint may be supposed to denote the perceived cowardice of the current leadership of the provisional movement, while the untouched graves are those of Bobby Sands and Joe McDonnell – icons of invincible opposition to British rule, who CIRA supporters claim would never have supported the current mainstream republican strategy.

    All of that is wild and probably incorrect conjecture, I admit. But I say it to demonstrate another possibilty other than that the evil unionists must be responsible, because no nationalist would ever do such a thing. That is an attitude coloured by pretty stark sectarianism, which is hardly a constructive way to respond to such a horrible attack.

    Even if the attacks were indeed perpetrated by loyalists, that should not lead anyone to believe that somehow it confirms that one side is “worse” that the other. Just three months ago, Remembrance Day crosses that were placed on more than 100 graves beside St. Patrick’s Church of Ireland in Newry were ripped up and strewn across the graveyard. Worse attacks have happened in the past at the church, with graves being damaged and windows broken.

    Let’s be clear: attacks on graves are beyond the pale. They are totally unacceptable, disgusting, highly provocative, hate crimes. To respond to such news with a comment that suggests that this is somehow typical of the attitudes and behaviour of only one community is kind of ironic.

  • Hugo ‘In a personal capacity’ Rudd

    Desecration of a grave site is a disgrace. A civilised society deals with its dead, and allows the process of grieving even among the enemy.

    Not nice. But allow me to be cynical for a bit.

    What will the effect be on SF turnout?

  • Dec

    TB

    I agree it’s far too early to jump to conclusions as to who was responsible (for example, the PSNI and the British Army have a history in this sort of thing). What should be borne in mind is that the view that deliberate targetting was employed would appear to be the personal opinion of one man (at this point).
    I also, seriously doubt Dissidents were responsible as it makes no sense whatsoever: their view is that the current SF strategy is betraying the sacrifice of those buried at Milltown. Desecration of their graves would appear to run contratry to that view.

  • Dec

    Not nice. But allow me to be cynical for a bit.

    What will the effect be on SF turnout?

    Hugo

    Try swapping ‘cynical’ with ‘dumb’.

  • descendancy again

    Putting people in graves is a damn sight worse than smashing graves up.

  • circles

    Descendancy again – it must feel good to get that mask off once in a while and just let loose eh? Sure whate are a few provie stones – disloyal traitors every last man jack eh? Killings too good for them, lets keep at them when they’re dead. Of course the british soldiers where honourable young men one and all.
    Soldiers kill people – it is not a nice way of life. But when they’e dead themselves could we not just let it lie?

    The thing that mystifies me about grave desecration is the whole point. Does it mean that people are so afraid of what these people represent that they’ll have a go at their grave? Do they still feel threatened by dead people?

  • Another classic headline planting the seed that an IRA terrorist plot has been foiled.

    First glance is all important as the viewer thinks of IRA terror plots before considering the real story.

    Very Fox News way of misleasding the public into thinking one thing whilst reporting another thing.

    Has Mick sold Slugger to Rupert Murdoch or is Mr Murdoch Mick’s mentor?

  • Descendancy again

    Yeah Circles, you sure ripped the mask off me: I’m a hate filled sectarian monster, anyway . . . your choice for the afternoon is, Gerry Adams has your mother murdered or your grandfather’s grave smashed up? Do feel free to come back and tell me how the latter is worse than the former.

  • TB

    Dec,

    I agree, which is why I said that my speculation was wild and probably incorrrect. I was highlighting the unfortunate attitude that only one community could possibly be responsible.

    Darth Rumsfeld,

    You’re thinking of the adjacent Belfast City Cemetery. In the early 1980s, the headstones of soldiers had to be removed for safekeeping and are still in Lady Dixon park.

    No community has a monopoly on victimhood or guilt when it comes to the desecration of graves.

  • darth rumsfeld

    deccy boy, the whataboutery you deploy has blown up in your face. The NGA rep was implying that usuns are morally superior becuase usuns don’t descrate Brit graves- inviting the suggestion that this was a sectarian attack without any evidence whatsoever.
    Then TB kindly corrects me by saying it was Belfast City cemetery where headtsones had to be removed to protect them from desecration by..er, usuns.

    I merely was asking why the NGA spokesman had to hint at evil prod guilt for a despicable act when noone knows who was to blame.

  • Shore Road Resident

    National Graves Association numpty has just told Talkback that he’s definitely sure dissident republicans weren’t involved. How is he sure?
    This answer had to be practically dragged out of him by the reporter via two consequetive leading questions.

  • Descendancy again

    Poor old Circles meanwhile is too busy exposing Jaffa sectarianism in other, far distant corners of the internet to come back here and tell us whether he would prefer Gerry Adams to murder his mammy, or, smash up his grandpa’s grave.

  • The Devil

    Many dissidents believe that the Sinn Fein leadership desecrate the Republican plot everytime they visit it

  • descendancy again

    Circles! Mammy murdered or Grandpa’s grave knocked about? Gerry needs to know which way it’s going to go down. Quick, quick, what’s the answer?

  • heck

    somehow I can see republicans doing this and I can’t see young loyalist vandals walking through the cemetry with paint. That leaves –could it be—say it is’nt so–no –not the brave lads in the PSNI/UVF. No I can’t believe it!!!

    Next some fenian will be suggesting that they collude with loyalist death squads. What could I have been thinking.

    I’ll just let our loyalist bloggers engage in whataboutery–No there I go again!!!–only fenians do that.

  • Descendancy again

    If Circles isn’t going to come back, should we hold a poll for him? Remember, he seems to be in doubt about whether it’s worse to see someone murdered or see a grave wrecked. So let’s have a borderline lunacy poll: If, theoretically, Gerry Adams, for example, was a Provo boss, what do we think Circles would like less: (1) Gerry Adams ordering that Circles’ mother be murdered? or (2) Gerry Adams ordering that Circles’ garndfather’s grave should be wrecked?

    To kick things off, I vote (1), for that’s just the kinda guy I am, the mothermurdering-is-worse-than-grave-despoiling sort.

  • Irish Republican in America

    Art Hostage,

    Good point about the headline! When I first saw it, I was thinking a “dissident” plot was foiled.

  • darth rumsfeld

    heck
    what about the obvious candidates- those upstanding young spides who grace the Falls Road of an evening with their kerryouts?

    Ooops- sectarian alert! Sectarian alert!

    To mention that any of the sturdy youth of the West might be engaged in vandalism makes me worse than David Irving a supremacist worse than the KKK etc etc yawn yawn.

    Nah, it must have been Qughie Orde and the mistress taking a wee detour for some rest and relaxation among the headstones on the belfast marathon route.

  • Shore Road Resident

    Anyone who suggests this was done by the PSNI has written themselves out of this and any other discussion worth having. Mentalist.

  • Dec

    Descendancy

    Unless you have anything pertinent to add to the thread other than making the same irrelevant point over and over again, I suggest you limit your future trolling to the Billy Goats Gruff.

    Darth

    The NGA rep was implying that usuns are morally superior becuase usuns don’t descrate Brit graves- inviting the suggestion that this was a sectarian attack without any evidence whatsoever.

    He actually mentioned the graves of local Catholic British soldiers and how they were respected. Now only the biggest loyalist cretin would claim the NGA’s rep was engaging in sectarian superiority with regard to his remarks. Need I say more…

    SRR

    National Graves Association numpty has just told Talkback that he’s definitely sure dissident republicans weren’t involved. How is he sure? This answer had to be practically dragged out of him by the reporter via two consequetive leading questions.

    ad-hominen attacks, shooting the messenger, baseless exaggeration….you ring all the bells

  • Dec

    Anyone who suggests this was done by the PSNI has written themselves out of this and any other discussion worth having. Mentalist.

    Do I detect the chime of the bell of Total Fucking Cluelessness?

    (I mean, he’s even from the Shore Road)

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Having looked at the BBC story, three broad facts would be apparent…

    1) British army graves were not vandalized

    2) The graves of Republicans, including one hunger-striker and the three shot by the SAS in Gilbrater, were vandalized.

    3) Paint was also poured upon the 1916 Irish Proclamation of Independence on the central monument.

    Now, focusing solely upon those meager facts we have, without whataboutery, what can we logically deduce?

    Given 1 & 3, I would doubt this was the act of Republicans, dissident or otherwise. Whilst dissidents might deface the graves of those whom they deem traitors, I doubt they would leave the graves of Catholic soldiers un-defaced, nor would they deface the monument of the 1916 Proclamation.

    Given 1, 2 & 3, taken as a whole, I would suspect that this deed was performed by someone on the Loyalist / Unionist side of the fence, although the specifics of exactly who remains to be seen, as it takes no particular genius to throw paint.

    This could be as simple as a couple Cro-Magnon teens to as wild a conspiracy as you would like to spin.

  • Shore Road Resident

    So you think the PSNI did this? Do you also believe that the PSNI robbed the Northern Bank? They did find that cash in the social club’s toilets, and that couldn’t possibly have been put there by anyone else. Or is it possible that the graves were knocked over by bullets richocheting off JFK’s head and through a time-tunnel over the Bermuda triangle? I certainly think so.

  • joeCanuck

    “This could be as simple as a couple Cro-Magnon teens ”

    Most likely. Fuelled by beer.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    SRR: “So you think the PSNI did this? Do you also believe that the PSNI robbed the Northern Bank? They did find that cash in the social club’s toilets, and that couldn’t possibly have been put there by anyone else.”

    Its got a sop of logic to it. It would not be the first time in recorded history policemen decided to play robbers and it would explain the cash. Is there evidence to support it? Well, there is the cash, although there are alternate explanations.

    All theories running about on the Northen Bank would fall into the category of “reasonable doubt,” although some have expressed unreasonable certainty in the matter.

    SRR: “Or is it possible that the graves were knocked over by bullets richocheting off JFK’s head and through a time-tunnel over the Bermuda triangle? I certainly think so. ”

    That would be between you and your therapist. You might ask that your dosages be increased.

  • Shore Road Resident

    Well thank god you have to support the PSNI now, or this could get very messy. You did get Gerry’s memo, didn’t you?

  • A clear demonstration of BBC competence is this link and the story about the BBC reporter saying building seven has collapsed 20 minutes before it actually does on 9/11.

    It is unbelievable to see the reporter stating the building has collapsed when it is clearly still standing behind her in the live shot of New York.

    http://www.truthring.org/

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/270207trustanything.htm

    If the mainstream media don’t even comment on this it is another demonstration of collusion, a word that applies not only to NI.

  • Cromwell

    I know whodunnit, it was a drunken Nic an Bhaird screaming about Shinners being the lickspittles of the Saxon oppressers, next she’ll be asking to be kneecapped in Irish!

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Cromwell: “I know whodunnit, it was a drunken Nic an Bhaird screaming about Shinners being the lickspittles of the Saxon oppressers, next she’ll be asking to be kneecapped in Irish! ”

    My, the NHS *HAS* been stingy with the meds this month…

  • Cromwell

    Dread,
    Is that seriously the best you can do?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Cromwell: “Is that seriously the best you can do? ”

    Not without getting overly nasty.

    On the other hand, was your post the best you could manage?

  • Cromwell

    Dread,
    Since you appear to recently undergone a sense of humour bypass maybe you should get the meds out.
    I, however, am taking my ball & going home.
    Goodbye.

  • Darth,

    should we consider your postings with greater levity as you speak as the voice of a grave / memorial desecrater ?

    likewise can we consider you similar to an “obvious candidate ” or a “young spide who grace ‘Any Road ‘ of an evening with their kerryouts? ”

    waiting for the voice of experiance to shed some ‘constructive’ light on the issue…

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Cromwell: “Since you appear to recently undergone a sense of humour bypass maybe you should get the meds out. ”

    I just don’t find the vandalism of graveyards, be it by ordinary decent yobs or sectarian yobs, to be a matter of levity. Mayhap such thoughts come with the opposable thumb — you’ll catch up, eventually…

  • heck

    Silly me, Shore Road Resident, how could I even think such a thing about those fine upstanding lads and lassies in the PSNI/UVF? I mean, where might such thoughts lead. I might start fantasizing that the PSNI/UVF colluded with the Mt Vernon UVF to kill people, and, well, we all know such things could never happen. After all Mt Vernon is on the Shore Road so you should know this is pure fantasy dreamed up by that fenian O’Loan-right SHORE ROAD RESIDENT!

    Why I even remember the 70’s when “those upstanding young spides who grace the Falls Road of an evening with their kerryouts” would sit down over a cup of tea with our wonderful RUC folks and confess to crimes and then the fenian buggers would beat themselves up. I only know this is true because the British meejja, unionist politicians and the ever truthful RUC told me, other wise I would have thought they were tortured.

    Quit right SSR –mentalist. Aren’t we lucky SF have seen the light and decided to support these wonderful examples of Nor Iron’s finest?

    Now you get your head out off your arse!

  • Reader

    DC: I just don’t find the vandalism of graveyards, be it by ordinary decent yobs or sectarian yobs, to be a matter of levity.
    No, but the immediate recourse to conspiracy theories *is*. Are you really ready to accept the theory that a crack PSNI squad did it? And on what basis – that no one else ever hangs around in graveyards and commits acts of vandalism?
    Darth points at the obvious suspects. Disaffected local youths, who may well at some time have been beaten, tortured, or maimed by the local IRA (acting in a policing capacity), or have seen their friends driven to exile or suicide by that same RA. And, so far as vandals think hard on any topic, they may wonder what it was all for. Especially now.

  • Comrade Stalin

    heck:

    After all Mt Vernon is on the Shore Road so you should know this is pure fantasy dreamed up by that fenian O’Loan-right SHORE ROAD RESIDENT

    I think it is relatively straightforward to estimate the quality of your perspective on the matter.

    Why I even remember the 70’s when “those upstanding young spides who grace the Falls Road of an evening with their kerryouts” would sit down over a cup of tea with our wonderful RUC folks and confess to crimes and then the fenian buggers would beat themselves up.

    It’s further indicative that you have to drag the thread back into recycled second-hand anecdotes from the 1970s in order to find something to say. Have you an original comment to make on this matter at all ?

    SRR is right; to suggest that the PSNI would risk getting themselves caught in order to throw paint on a few graves is utter lunacy. It’s like a loyalist making claims about SF politicians turning up to take a dump in public on the site of the Battle of the Boyne. They’ve far more important things to be doing. If they want to annoy republicans, there are plenty of legitimate and defensible ways of doing it – such as that time the other week when they used force to stop a group of robbers subsequently caught with £40000 cash in their possession up the New Lodge.

    It’s more likely that this is the work of loyalists.

  • Comrade Stalin

    BTW the people who desecrate graves, no matter who they are, are the worst kind of vile scum. It’s hard to think of what kind of uncivilized depraved mind would want to target grieving families and deny the right of the dead to rest in peace.

  • Crime Scene Investigation

    Darth Rumsfeld,

    I need a personality profile a.s.a.p……

    ……what thought processes go on in the mind of a memorial desecrator?

  • Skinny Cnuts

    Why are Bobby Sands and other “hunger strikers” buried there? I thought it was RC policy not to give christian burial to those who committed suicide. Has this changed?

  • Red Mist

    Skinny Scum,

    Hunger Strike is not suicide you scum bag. And why is Hunger Strikers detailed as “hunger strikers” in your post? Are you denying their status as Hunger Strikers?

    I’d look for another venue low life.

  • heck

    “SRR is right; to suggest that the PSNI would risk getting themselves caught in order to throw paint on a few graves is utter lunacy” Why I know it was those Fenians that did it to their own graves.

    good god man– why did’nt I think to say that. And those good old London bobbies “to suggest that they would risk getting themselves caught in order beat up a few black people is utter lunacy” Those upstanding young spides who grace the London streets of an evening with their kerryouts did it. I just know.

    “To suggest that the LAPD would risk getting themselves caught in order to beat up rodney king is utter lunacy” Why we all know that those upstanding young spides who drive the LA freeways of an evening with their kerryouts did it. I just know.

    Now I am ready to become a unionist. I just know the earth is flat, the holocaust never happened, darwin was wrong and the PSNI would never throw paint on a few fenian graves. I just know

    Why, I even support the monarchy because I believe in democracy and I support our gallant boys (including that brave prince harry) killing arabs in Iraq because I am opposed to violence.

    Yip the DUP will get my vote.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Reader: “No, but the immediate recourse to conspiracy theories *is*. Are you really ready to accept the theory that a crack PSNI squad did it? And on what basis – that no one else ever hangs around in graveyards and commits acts of vandalism? ”

    Perhaps you weren’t paying attention, but I already expressed my opinion on the matter… allow me to reiterate — all I can say with any sort of rational certainty is that it was likely committed by someone the Unionist / Loyalist side of the fence, based on what was vandalized, but that, and I quote “the specifics of exactly who remains to be seen, as it takes no particular genius to throw paint. This could be as simple as a couple Cro-Magnon teens to as wild a conspiracy as you would like to spin. ”

    My PSNI comment pertained to the Northern Bank, where my conclusion was that every theory, based on the actual evidence, as opposed to political preferences and sectarian hyperbole, was subject to “reasonable doubt, although some have expressed unreasonable certainty.”

    Do try to keep up.

  • Reg

    The ‘Hunger Strikers’/’Suicides’ question is a legitimate one, IMHO, given the current position of th republican movement. But not for this thread. Even though it’s horribly off-topic, it’s easy enough to avoid playing the man on this one, whether he’s a lowlife or not.

  • Comrade Stalin

    heck :

    Why I know it was those Fenians that did it to their own graves.

    I guess being an American you are in a unique position to comment on the facts of the case. I suppose being 4000 miles away you feel that you have a unique insight into the matter ? Personally I think it was most likely loyalists. I can’t see even disaffected republican teenagers doing this.

    It’s funny how the chuckies, and a lot of other people for that matter, have different standards of evidence depending on who committed the crime. An exercise for the reader at home would be to compare the standard of evidence required to suspect the PSNI of descrating graves (“they did it before”) to the standard of evidence usually cited as a means to denying that the IRA robbed the Northern Bank (“there’s no physical evidence therefore they can’t have done it, it’s all a conspiracy to blacken their name and wreck the peace process”).

  • Wilde Rover

    “This could be as simple as a couple Cro-Magnon teens to as wild a conspiracy as you would like to spin.“

    A sliver of reason in this bile-ridden thread.

    I know that it’s election time and I hate to interrupt the flying of spittle and the popping of veins but, assuming this was a bunch of young lads who may be inclined to support Rangers, and also assuming that in another situation it would be those predisposed to being Celtic fans, could it be seen as truly sectarian?

    If a couple of English youths thrash a Merc are they taking part in the proletarian struggle against the system when they wait around for the cops to arrive or are they just waiting to pick up their ASBO points?

    Wipe away all the history and you are still left with mindless youths bent on mindless violence and vandalism.

    Recent studies suggest if they ditch the Burgers ‘n Beer diet and start ingesting omega-3 most of them calm down.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,1924088,00.html

    So there is hope.

  • Descendancy again

    How kind of Dec to take it upon himself to suggest who should, and should not post to Slugger threads. this will save us all a lot of time in future. Meanwhile, since poor old Circles has vanished, let’s turn our attention to his cohort. Comrade Stalin for example: “the people who desecrate graves, no matter who they are, are the worst kind of vile scum”. No they’re not, [edited by moderator – play the ball]. The people who prematurely put people into their graves are so, so very much worse. But let’s try the moral quandry on you that Circles has so far declined to answer. Gerry Adams takes the huff with you, and he’s toying up, ‘shall I have Comrade’s mother murdered, orrrr, shall I get the boys to turn over his grandpa’s grave? What to do, what to do? I know, I’m in a good mood, I’ll let Comrade decide’. So which is it old son? Mammy murdered or granda’s grave monstered?

  • BP1078

    From the original BBC report:

    He said that certain graves had been deliberately untouched.

    Anyone know which graves he’s referring to and why loyalists/the PSNI/securocrats/disaffected Republicans/local pissheads would have left them “deliberately untouched?”

    The clue to the culprits is there surely? Or, at least, whom the National Graves Associarion think are the culprits…

  • BP1078

    I should really read whole reports before commenting:

    “Sixty-six British soldiers are buried in Milltown and not one of their graves is touched.”

    So in a roundabout way, McCotter is saying it was themuns….

  • Cromwell

    To all the ridiculous conspiracies floating about above; it was your own what done it, so you can try & spin the blame as you’ve been doing for nigh on 40 years now, so you’re pretty expert at it.
    My own personal favourite was the provos claiming that the British Army set the bomb off which caused the Enniskillen Poppy Day massacre, with radio waves, before they had time to phone a bomb scare in.
    You can dress it up however you like, you might fool the Yanks, you wont fool us.

  • Sean

    Probably carried out by PSF themselves, they are desperate for any kind of publicity.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    BP1078: “Anyone know which graves he’s referring to and why loyalists/the PSNI/securocrats/disaffected Republicans/local pissheads would have left them “deliberately untouched?” ”

    Could be as simple as an ordered mind attempt to force a pattern on a random act.

    Cromwell: “To all the ridiculous conspiracies floating about above; it was your own what done it, so you can try & spin the blame as you’ve been doing for nigh on 40 years now, so you’re pretty expert at it. ”

    If ever an example of unreasoning certainty was needed, it comes wandering in, like a man ordering luncheon meat in a hardware store.

    So, Cromwell, your counter to the “ridiculous conspiracies floating about” is to claims… A CONSPIRACY, only Fenian this time… Bravo.

    Is this really the best you can do?

  • Cromwell

    I see you were up about 4am Dread, werent out guarding a graveyard were you?
    Maybe the meds are affecting your mind.
    No conspiracy necessary, as I’ve already said, it was your own what done it.
    Your blind republican mind cant see the graves for the paint.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Cromwell: “I see you were up about 4am Dread, werent out guarding a graveyard were you? ”

    I can honestly say that I am not certain if your poorly aimed jibe is evidence of an excess of imagination or a lack of logic.

    Cromwell: “No conspiracy necessary, as I’ve already said, it was your own what done it. ”

    Ah… an just how long have your been laboring under these delusions of omniscience? Your “say so” does not constitute evidence, nor information, nor even data. It is not more persuasive than the howlings of a chimpanzee, as it is wholly unsupported.

    Your “rebuttal” to the notion that Unionists / Loyalists of some stripe or another committed this vandalism is that Republicans, for reasons yet to adequately articulated by yourself, did this act. This, in and of itself, is a conspiracy theory — that the readily apparent logical answer is the incorrect one because some devious party has laid a false trail. You provide no evidence or chain of logic to support your conclusions, which, frankly, could be arrested for vagrancy in their current state.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    BP1078: “I should really read whole reports before commenting: ”

    A not uncommon failing…

    BP1078: ““Sixty-six British soldiers are buried in Milltown and not one of their graves is touched.”

    So in a roundabout way, McCotter is saying it was themuns…. ”

    Actually, BP, it’s a statement of observable fact, composed of reasonably short words. When did simply stating that which can be seen to be true become “sectarian?”

  • Cromwell

    Dread,
    Again with the humour bypass.
    What a lot of verbal somersaulting, all hot air & no trunks.
    It was Maire Nic an Bhaird on the drink!

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Cromwell: “Again with the humour bypass.”

    Again with the useless jibber-jabber on your part. All noise, no information.

    As for your alleged humor, there is nothing funny about vandalism, particularly that of graveyards. Your humor is so low-brow as to have a Neaderthal ridge. Perhaps when you ascend beyond the sophistication of a sectarian “Bevis and Butthead” routine, matters might change.

  • circles

    Ach descendancy – have you not realised that not everybody can post incessantly on slugger over a short period (due to things such as having a life and gainful employment, and waiting until there is a point worth making – all of which you may be void of) – but to get back to you finally.
    I just have a very simple recommendation – read peoples posts before spinning off on a rant. Regarding your “moral quandry” – the very fact that you think a murder is somehow comparable to grave desecration reveals a seriously damaged world view. Nobody, apart from you, even suggested this. Read my post. You’re “quandry” does not deserve to be addressed – much like the rest of your posts.
    Now if you’ll excuse me – I have work to be getting on with, and you have some billy goats to chase I believe.

  • nmc

    Mammy murdered or granda’s grave monstered?

    Neither thanks. Is that ok? Or will we be pasting the same question a further 4 or 5 times?

  • Cromwell

    Dread,
    If you are of a mind to insult people at least learn how to spell.
    You seem obsessed with Cro-Magnons’ & “Neaderthal” sic, which possibly tells us exactly where your mind is stuck.
    You consistently complain of me pointing the finger & yet you posit no evidence yourself.
    Dont blame me for doubting you when a pehistoric po-faced republican dinosaur such as yourself cries “brits” or ” loyalists” every time something bad happens. I’ve been listening to it for far too long.
    Are you Barry McElduff in disguise. Groan.

  • Cromwell

    Oops, thats prehistoric!

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Cromwell: “You consistently complain of me pointing the finger & yet you posit no evidence yourself. ”

    Actually, I posted an analysis, based on the targets hit by the paint. To summarize for those who don’t actually read posts:

    1) British soldiers memorials were not hit
    2) Some Republican memorials were hit
    3) The memorial of the 1916 proclamation was hit.

    The lack of general vandalism suggests a political motive — the Republicans were specifically targetted. The choice of targets — Republicans, including three killed at Gibraltar and a Hunger-striker, and the 1916 Proclamation, would suggest a Unionist or Loyalist perpetrator, particularly the Proclamation, which is an unlikely target for Republican vandals, dissident or otherwise.

    Given the above, the most likely suspect is someone on the Loyalist / Unionist side of the fence, although the specific “who,” I make no accusation, leaving the field open from drunken teens to whatever fever-dream someone else would care to pitch.

    Cromwell: “Dont (sic) blame me for doubting you when a pehistoric(sic) po-faced republican dinosaur such as yourself cries “brits” or “ loyalists” every time something bad happens. ”

    Please — you cannot be relied upon to accurately read and respond to posts in a single thread, let alone make an accurate characterization of my comments on the whole of the blog. You’re just troll — go find yourself a bridge.

  • Cromwell

    I cant get in Dread, you’re already there & I suspect you’ve been there for quite a while.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Cromwell: “I cant get in Dread, you’re already there & I suspect you’ve been there for quite a while. ”

    Descending rather than ascending where humor and maturity are concern… not the way to light up a room.

    Are you sure this is the best you can do?

  • BP1078

    Actually, BP, it’s a statement of observable fact, composed of reasonably short words. When did simply stating that which can be seen to be true become “sectarian?”

    Dread C
    I really don’t want to interrupt your ongoing debate with Oliver, but did I say his observation was “sectarian”?

    What would you have derived from the 2 observations he made?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    BP1078: “I really don’t want to interrupt your ongoing debate with Oliver”

    Assuming an overly broad definition of the word “debate.”

    BP1078: “but did I say his observation was “sectarian”?

    You said, and I quote, “So in a roundabout way, McCotter is saying it was themuns…. “”

    Invariably, invoking “themmuns,” regardless of the facts, is an invitation to descend into sectarian slagging.

    BP1078: “What would you have derived from the 2 observations he made? ”

    The same thing I made out of the three data-points in the BBC story. I suppose my exception is more with semantics than substance. Ideally, some subjects are better left to dry, empirical fact and logical extrapolation of those facts, with conclusion limited to what is provable or highly probable, as opposed to some of the flights of fancy that some have conjured up. To my ear, reducing it to a “themmuns” comment just encourages fever dreams in some quarters. As that apparently was not your intent, I apologize for inferring that which not implied.

  • BP1078

    As that apparently was not your intent, I apologize for inferring that which not implied.

    Wasn’t my intent, if the British soldiers’ graves weren’t touched, whilst the IRA ones were, then the stronger possibility is that it wasn’t someone from a *Republican* *community background*, but I don’t know 100% if this is what Mr McCotter was implying (is that better;)?)

  • Dread Cthulhu

    BP1078: “Wasn’t my intent, if the British soldiers’ graves weren’t touched, whilst the IRA ones were, then the stronger possibility is that it wasn’t someone from a *Republican* *community background*, but I don’t know 100% if this is what Mr McCotter was implying (is that better;)?) ”

    Spot on.