Rangers could be in serious trouble over one hand salutes in Israel

Rangers could be in a lot of trouble with UEFA over one hand salutes made by a section of their fans during last week’s UEFA Cup tie against Hapoel Tel Aviv in Israel.
Rangers chief executive Martin Bain has urged fans not to make any such gestures when the two sides meet Thursday in the return leg at Ibrox.

“The photographs in question show a small number of Rangers fans in Tel-Aviv making one-arm salute gestures. Some Rangers fans continue to give ‘Red Hand’ salutes which the club and the vast majority of supporters discourage because they will be misinterpreted.

We have regularly consulted with our supporters groups and they have said they are doing everything they can to prevent this.

We have repeatedly made clear that fans should not make any gestures that can be misinterpreted and we are urging all fans attending the game tomorrow night to remember the potential consequences.”

It now remains to be seen if UEFA accept Bain’s explanation and Rangers escape severe sanctions because the gestures were Red Hand salutes that may have been misinterpreted as Nazi ones.

One particular problem in the Bain analysis is the actual meaning of the Red Hand salute and its origins. The best description I have been able to find is here.

It’s first appearance at Ibrox seems to have been in the 1980’s, coinciding with the introduction of the extreme right wing “Chelsea bootboys'” unofficial friendship with Rangers.

Terry Last, a soccer hooligan and a leading figure of both the head-hunters and the National Front, also played a role in the rise of this disgusting symbol and dragged England’s national support to an all time low when he was pictured displaying the salute whilst “on tour” with England not long before his arrest and imprisonment in connection with his hooligan activities. Following his trial Last was labelled “Little Hitler of the Soccer Thugs” by the English media…..

A good piece of advice is also offered:

If you see anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, contributing to the use of Nazi salutes within Ibrox, or any other ground where Rangers fans’ are in attendance, do the right thing and politely question why, within Britain’s’ shores’ are they saluting and displaying support for one of the most evil dictatorships in world history, that had they achieved there goal, would have destroyed Great Britain, a union which is sacred to many within our own support.

Most probably, their reply will be, its not a Nazi salute, it’s a Red Hand. It’s time to educate the uneducated, make it clear to the idiots that this mythical Red Hand Salute does not exist and it has no place amoungst a Rangers support that we are extremely proud of.

UEFA fined Rangers last season over discriminatory songs during Champions League ties against Villarreal.

Every club has its idiots (Celtic trying to stop some if its fans chanting IRA slogans) but it could very well be that the particular circumstances of these idiots’ behaviour could have more serious repercussions than usual.

Eds: Thanks for the update Update. UEFA have accepted Rangers’ version of the story that such salutes related to the red hand on the Ulster flag.

But club chief executive Martin Bain said: “We have repeatedly made clear that fans should not make them.”

  • Sarah

    So Paolo di Canio is not allowed to show the origins of a Belgian city but Rangers fans are?

  • “…why you believe IRA chants and songs have a place at any official football function. “
    and for the forth time I’ll point out that I posted “I don’t like the add-on’s” but of course you choose to believe otherwise and you approached this thread with preconceived ideas. This thread is about sectarianism at Rangers (which you’re ignoring) and their worse behaviour (official and unofficial) which I listed but you choose to ignore…. Scotland secret shame seems to be all over this site & thread… can’t you see the 800 lb gorilla in the living room?

    “Come on here and have a go at Rangers “vermin” (as I believe you’ve referred to them previously)”
    No, nay, never did I write that… there’s only a few pages, flick thro them and you’ll see my postings… now you’re making things up. While you’re going thro the pages you’ll find my points and questions… stop avoiding them and answer the question… answer the questions!

    Realist: “Do you have similar issues with republican hate spewing bile, or is your outrage just reserved for one side? “
    Don’t try and detract from the point… you were asked for Rangers initiatives against sectarianism… you come back with one which links to Carton Radio… a hate station in true National Front mode. You shot yourself in the foot… egg on your face… This thread isn’t about one side is as bad as the other. This is about Rangers nazis… seig heil in Israel… which you and BP1798 have tried to deflect from by posting about the other Glasgow team.

    What was it Marcus Anthony wrote “ I’m not here to praise Caesar”, I can see that is your intention, it’s as plain as he blue nose on Bazza’s face.

  • Harry

    You shot yourself in the foot… egg on your face

    Are you saying his foot is made of egg?

  • harold

    We should not forget about racism in football at home.

    I remember the black French players being racially abused at Windsor Park when they were over here for a ‘friendly’ a number of years ago and let’s not forget the dambusters tunes and spitfire actions directed at the German fans on a visit to Windsor.

    The BNP/C18 have always had connections within local football, especially Linfield,Coleraine & Ballymena.

  • two seperate analogies implying the same / similar thing…. that he’d made a fool of himself.

  • Realist

    anonymous,

    My position is very clear.

    I deplore sectarianism.

    Whether that sectarianism comes from Rangers fans, Celtic fans, NI fans, ROI fans, Linfield fans, Cliftonville fans etc, etc, makes no difference to me.

    I applaud ALL efforts to reduce and eradicate sectarianism – and begrudge none of those efforts. i stand shoulder to shoulder with ALL those who devote time and effort in fighting sectarianism at football clubs.

    Is that your position too?

    PS. I you want to play a game of “links of the unexpected” relating to Celtic related sites, I’m more than happy to play.

    I’m just not sure that it would solve anything.

  • Realist

    Harold,

    “I remember the black French players being racially abused at Windsor Park when they were over here for a ‘friendly’ a number of years ago”

    I wonder do you remember the monkey chants and banana skins directed at Mark Walters when he made his debut for Rangers at Celtic Park?

    I can post you the video footage if you like?

    We can play “whatabout” all day, if you like?

  • Harold

    realist

    I was trying to make the point that it is not just Scotland that has problems with racism etc…

    Why are you acting like a little girl with you’re childish response ?

  • Realist

    Harold,

    I have been trying to make the point that no club/team has a monopoly on sectarianism and racism.

    We know it’s not just Scotland has a problem with racism – it’s a problem throughout Europe, in case you hadn’t noticed.

    And, shock horror, in the Irish Republic too – remember the abusive threats sent to certain black ROI players during Brian Kerr’s reign.

    If you want to talk about sectarianism and racism in the game, great.

    If you want to point score, you’re part of the problem.

  • “…play a game of “links of the unexpected” relating to Celtic related sites, I’m more than happy to play.”

    Not the issue… unrelated to the point you were trying to prove… you are trying to dodge the point. The point about site was… you were asked for links to Rangers initiatives / campaigns to combat sectarianism. You highlighted the Blue Order as being an example of anti-sectarian efforts by Rangers / their fans to lessen the bigotry at Ibrox etc… with 2 or 3 clicks on that site one finds oneself at Carton Radio which is a hate site for loyalists.

    Therefore your examples of efforts to educate the youth are actually links to hate sites. Your examples of anti sectarian efforts are linked to hate sites.

  • Realist

    anonymous,

    “The point about site was… you were asked for links to Rangers initiatives / campaigns to combat sectarianism. You highlighted the Blue Order as being an example of anti-sectarian efforts by Rangers / their fans to lessen the bigotry at Ibrox etc… with 2 or 3 clicks on that site one finds oneself at Carton Radio which is a hate site for loyalists.

    Therefore your examples of efforts to educate the youth are actually links to hate sites. Your examples of anti sectarian efforts are linked to hate sites”

    Let’s clarify this one.

    You asked me to provide links to anti sectarianism sites, linked to Rangers Football Club.

    I did not oblige you in providing links.

    I mentioned different initiatives of the top of my head, including Pride Over Prejudice.

    My understanding was that “The Blue Order” was an initiative by some Rangers supporters to have a non sectarian singing section generate the right kind of atmosphere at Rangers games.

    Maybe that’s not the case?

    I had no knowledge that their site was “linked” to Carlton Radio, and my only knowledge of Carlton Radio is from you.

    If Carlton Radio is a Rangers site that promotes hatred and sectarianism, then I absolutely condemn it without condition.

    Do you condemn sites, linked to fans of Celtic FC, which glorify republican paramilitarism and republican hate bands?

    Maybe when you get the overt bigotry out of your system, you might like to tell us of the successes of various anti sectarian initiatives by Celtic FC, and what work is continuing?

    Do you welcome and encourage the work of groups such as “Pride Over Prejudice” at Ibrox?

    What “best practice” do you think Rangers and Celtic could share in their fight against sectarian fans?

    What’s your views on the “joint” initiatives already taking place between the two clubs?

  • Harold

    “If you want to point score, you’re part of the problem”

    The problem lies with you realist, you spend your life in an endless sea of whataboutery

    Point scoring seems to be the main thrust of any arguement you bring to any sporting topic.

    Some masks are fairly easy to see through and i’m afraid the one you are wearing, is very transparent

  • Realist

    Harold,

    “The problem lies with you realist, you spend your life in an endless sea of whataboutery”

    On the contrary, I merely highlight the fact that sectarianism is not the sole domain of football fans of any one club.

    I recognize that it is problem amongst many fanbases, including those of teams I actively support.

    “Point scoring seems to be the main thrust of any arguement you bring to any sporting topic”

    Sometimes when people start pointing the finger, they need to be reminded that there’s one pointing right back at them.

    “Some masks are fairly easy to see through and i’m afraid the one you are wearing, is very transparent”

    I wear no mask.

    I guess you’re just a tad miffed that in your attempt to pointscore, a finger came right back at you.

    Your overt bigotry was found out.

    Now, if you want to chat about eradicating sectarianism and racism from the game of football, I’m very happy to take your views on board.

  • BP1078

    No, nay, never did I write that… there’s only a few pages, flick thro them and you’ll see my postings… now you’re making things up.

    I stand corrected, “anonymous”, I must have confused you with another “anonymous” elsewhere, who has a rather similar style to yourself. I’ll bow out now of the *debate* and let you have the last word/slagging.

    I know it’s probably a forlorn hope, but at least have a think about what I said this morning.

    If there happen to be any Rangers fans reading, you have taken an absolute hammering on this thread and not one of you has come back with any evidence of action taken by the fanbase to throw back in your detractors’ faces. Either you don’t care about your club’s reputation or more disturbingly, you’ve done nothing in the form of concrete actions against sectarianism to fight back with.

    Either way, you should be taking a long deep think about where your club is going.

    Here endeth the sermon.

  • Doctor Who

    Hi if you really could do with a laugh, check out this site I came about by accident.

    http://www.talfanzine.com/talissue38.htm

    It is a Celtic fan website for Republicans. It wishes to stamp out sectarianism and racism by closing Rangers down. Meanwhile in their merchandise shop you can purchase Palestinian flags, Basque flags, Irish tri colours of course and most forms of IRA memoribillia.

    Ach!! sure butter wouldn´t melt.

  • richard

    Belfast has its very own shop for all the latest paramilitary – northern ireland – Rangers products.

    northern ireland-our wee country flags/hats/badges/shirts
    http://www.unionjackshop.com/product_info.php?id=282 – made and distibuted by terrorists.

    You can purchase a nice uda beanie hat to keep you warm at Windsor
    http://www.unionjackshop.com/product_info.php?id=353

    And a few new uff badges for the scarf
    http://www.unionjackshop.com/product_info.php?id=120

    Semingly the IFA are happy enough for their trademarked logos to be used by paramilitaries.

    I wonder why?

  • Doctor Who

    Richard (or is it Dick for short)

    Your “whataboutery” makes you look foolish, I don´t pretend that the link I gave is fully representative Of Celtic FC, it does show however that sectarianism is alive and well at Celtic Parkn contrary to the many blind nationalists on these threads.

    Your comment linking the IFA to loyalist paramilitaries is a disgrace and you should retract it immediately.

    When are dinosaurs like you going to commend the work of the IFA and GAWA, after all the rest of Europe knows that GAWA are the best fans on the European continent. The rest of the world next.

  • richard

    “rest of Europe knows that GAWA are the best fans on the European continent”

    dr no

    The award was an anti-fascist award for supporters who have a history of facsism /sectarianism.

    Hardly anything to be proud of !!!

    Was it awarded before last summer’s marching season when many n.i supporters flew their n.i supporters flags alongside those of the uff & uvf?

  • Jg

    Blame the masons!

    Surely not the lovely Freemasons who say

    “Let it rain down love”?

  • The General

    “The award was an anti-fascist award for supporters who have a history of facsism /sectarianism.

    Hardly anything to be proud of !!!

    An anti-fascist award isn’t something to be proud of?

    What a strange set of values you have.

  • stitch

    The attempt to justify ‘Red Hand Salutes’ is ludicrous and shameful. Rangers have sent out a confusing message by asking fans not to use them as they may be ‘misinterpreted’. If the gesture was legitimate in anyway then why should the club ask supporters not to use them at all? The truth is that there appears to be no origin in Irish history of the ‘red hand salute’ ever being used as a symbol of any kind. These are Nazi salutes dressed up as something else without any logical foundation and by describing them as ‘Red Hand Salutes’ the club’s response has actually played into the hands of the bigots, legitimising a gesture which any fair-minded person will find offensive. Even if ‘Red Hand Salutes’ were legitimate, the use of a gesture which appears identical to a Nazi salute at a football match, particularly one involving an Israeli team, is disgraceful. Those involved are unlikely to listen to reason and should be identified and banned for the sake of the sport as well as society. Zero-tolerance must not be a byword for half-hearted measures and leniency towards overt racist behaviour.

  • Cap’n Bob

    How long before Rangers have the same reputation as Feijenoord?

  • Cheryl

    Where is an Israeli Trevor Brennan (or two!) when he is needed?

  • richard

    http://www.nio.gov.uk/media-detail.htm?newsID=14170

    Perhaps the anti-counterfeiting group should visit the unionjack shop

    http://www.unionjackshop.com/product_info.php?id=293

  • Billy

    Realist

    “I wonder do you remember the monkey chants and banana skins directed at Mark Walters when he made his debut for Rangers at Celtic Park?”

    I was there and this was a very small minority of Celtic fans – totally inexcusable and the club acted quickly to identify and ban them.

    However on the day that the signing of Mark Walters was announced, the sports programs on Glasgow/Scottish radio got hundrdeds of calls complaining about it – the vast majority came OPENLY from RANGERS FANS.

    Why do you think that some Rangers supporters groups have connections with extreme right wing groups and similar groups of Chelsea “fans”, Millwall “fans”, Combat 18 and the BNP? Do you think that these groups picked their name out of a hat?

    It’s because they know that there is a grouping within Rangers “fans” who agree with their views.

    I’m not saying that a very large percentage of Rangers fans are not decent people and I admire David Murray’s attempts to clean up their act.

    However, Rangers “fans” are similar to the NI “fans”. Their whole ethos was based for decades on hatred and anti-Catholicism. It is not easy to dispose of the knuckle draggers who have been born and bred with this hatred. Rangers and NI have only themselves to blame.

    As to your comparisons with Celtic, you are wasting your time. Celtic have NEVER advocated bigotry (our most famous figure ever, the late great Jock Stein, was a Protestant).

    While Celtic do have an unwanted element who chant IRA stuff etc, they are dealing with it – the bhoys against bigotry campaign etc. However, their problem is on a much smaller scale than Rangers.

    I think it will take a long time for Rangers to lose their extreme right wing followers and it’ll cost them a lot of money in fines and, more importantly, a lot of worldwide bad publicity.

    I have no symapathy for them, they are simply reaping what they sowed for decades.

  • Mike

    This “Richard” is in fact a poster who has appeared under various iddferent names on threads like these – and indeed under various names on the one thread.

  • lee

    Mike

    Whatever about the messenger, its important that the IFA take action against criminals who profit from this illegal behaviour.

    We should not forget that the same criminals were making fake George Best shirts and thus taking money away fron the great work being done by the George Best Foundation.

    The IFA took part in the counterfeiting conference during the week and it specifically named Northern Ireland football shirts,flags etc..as being a favourite for the criminals.

    Don’t forget that these gangsters are taking money away from the Association which has the knock on effect at grass roots delevopment and future success.

  • harry

    its surprising that the authorities don’t move against the bootleggers.

    The PSNI & Trading Standards people have always been very pro-active regarding music & film bootlegging.

  • ap’n bob

    Di Canio’s fascist salute was done in Italy, Europe those done by the rangers fans were in Israel, Asia so that is totally acceptable.

  • D Mc Swinton

    The fact is that Celtic have never been sectarian fans. We are an Irish Catholic club that should be proud of our heritage and part of that heritage is our support of the IRA nothing wrong with that at all. Billys right Mark Walters wasnt booed because hes black it was because he plays for the fascist huns. Some great Celt songs on here http://home.wanadoo.nl/maarten.geluk/songs/celtic.html.
    TAL

  • D Mc Swinton
  • Cap’n Bob

    West Ham United are being investigated for “Anti-Semitic” chants in Sunday’s game. Just shows the difference between first world England and Asian Israel.