Ramsey family pays price for police support…

WHILE Sinn Fein might be feeling a pinch of political pain over policing, Pat Ramsey has borne the bloody brunt of dissident republicanism’s opposition to the PSNI – suffering actual, as opposed to implied, attacks for his support for policing. After a long campaign of intimidation, the SDLP man has finally been forced from his house, at considerable expense to his family.

  • Crataegus

    I wish him and his family well and indeed the many others who have suffered this sort of political intimidation or equally those that have suffered similar at the hands of various paramilitary groups for whatever reason.

    It seems that we as a society are unable to effectively protect those who are vulnerable. Worse than that I doubt if we have the will to protect, most people don’t really care because it is not them, and they know to keep their heads down. Often common sense is an excuse for cowardice.

    The police are ineffective so these people become the sacrificial lambs in the front line. On one hand we buy off the gun men and on the other we shaft those who seek a new normality.

    I can understand the dissident’s perspective of the police, for I have my own reasons to doubt their impartiality and modus operandi, but there is absolutely NO excuse for this sort of behaviour.

    It says much about the state of our democracy and how the basic rights of many are denied, how utterly intolerant some are of others views, and how we have come to tolerate views that are fascist. We look back to Germany and wonder how on earth did that happen? Well here in NI it is easy to see. Neighbours look the other way, the conversation in the pub where we don’t question the darkest views but go along for the crac, the pier pressure, the idea that the objective is all important and the road you take doesn’t matter etc. We follow the mindset of the psychopaths at our peril for remember if you keep your head down the angel of death may pass but there is no knowing what men like this will consider as the next objective and who will be the next target, or whose son or daughter will be used as pawns in a game where only their objective matters.

  • DMCM

    A sad day for Ireland. An elected representative has become so plagued by petty thugs that he can no longer find it tenable living there with his family.
    The people that have been doing this claim it is for the good of Ireland.
    Can any dissident republican comment on why this is so?
    This is further evidence that those who CLAIM to still fight for Ireland have lost the plot. All they can do these days is pick on those who are unprotected and unarmed.
    SHAME ON THEM.
    If dissident republicans ever get their way I will be the first in line to denounce my Irish citizenship. They are the most pathetic bastards that I have ever seen. Id rather die than live in an Ireland created by the likes of those that did this to Pat Ramsey.
    HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME.

  • Henry94

    Unacceptable harassment of an elected representative by unelected and unrepresentative thugs.

  • provo victims

    Gents: Cast your minds back to when the Provos were killing all and sundry. Did all that upset ye? How about when they beat up dissidents? Less of the moral grandstanding please.

    Beating up members of the SDLP is and always has been despicable, even if the Provos no longer do it. But violence has been the metric here for so long.

    Crataegus: You make good points. I suppose that is why OIRA is still around. When the Provos are regarded as acceptable, eveyone needs backing.

  • Irish Democrat

    Henry94, you hit the nail on the head. I know Pat to be a good man who speaks the truth, tells it as it is no matter how unpalatable and sadly he has paid the price. Will it make any difference? I doubt it. The treasonous “Republicans” will still choose those who once condoned this type of behaviour. Hypocrasy! Shame on the perpe-traitors and those who support them!

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    I wish him and his family well.

    I know that in N Belfast Kathy Stanton has had to put up with years of abuse from thieves and hoods with her home attacked on numerous occasions.

    Just before Xmas her husband was subjected to a very nasty and vicious attack when a well known hood from the New Lodge area slashed his face with a stanley knife. A bit more than a pinch of political pain in anyones book.

  • Paul

    Ramsey has blamed Sinn Fein for this harassment at times and also some of the neighbours could tell you a story or two about Ramsey and this carry on. Its not as clear cut as it seems.

  • Ingram

    Paul,

    You are right, Ramsey has made that clear previously. Sinn Fein and mainstream Republicans are well known to be behind this sustained campaign. The dissident element is small compared to the mainstream involvement.

    This is exactly the type of activity that the DUP will make political capital from during and after the testing period.

    Over to Comical Pat , for the party stock denial.

    Ingram

  • sean

    So the predictable Shinner angle appears with a thread along the lines of “our representatives are suffering just as much as yours are!” as if to suggest, somehow by association, that they are no worse off! Ridiculous! Nobody in SDLP has ever condoned the threatening intimidation of a public representative unlike SF and their supporters who have done so for years! Some of us will never forget the sinister threats by SF towards SDLP representatives who ran for council! Oh how they have changed their tune but what’s that they say about leopards and spots?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Sean,

    SF has had more party members murdered than all the other parties put together. An uncomfortable fact that nullifies your whinge fest.

    Throughout the 1980’s and 1990’s the announcement of an election was greeted with raids on SF offices, the arrest of SF personnel and the said murder of SF activists. By and large the SDLP stayed silent, content to benefit from the opportunities presented.

    A bit of advice, it is best to try and revise history when most of us have popped our clogs. That way you can lie till your hearts content without rebuttal.

  • ingram

    Comical Pat is off again,

    quoteSF has had more party members murdered than all the other parties put together. An uncomfortable fact that nullifies your whinge fest.

    That is very true BUT Sinn Fein have had and retain far more IRA active volunteers within its ranks than any other political party. Simple.

    Dont make silly points without first putting the claim in context.

    Ingram

  • So Pat, what are your views on the provo attacks on the likes of John Fee? Were such attacks ok in the 1980s and 1990s, but not now?

  • J Kelly

    I would be the first to have a go at so called dissidents but they were not behind these attacks. The guy who orchestrated these attacks was a british agent who has since fled Derry. He is a former IRA prisoner who when released from Portlaoise joined the RIRA and was responsible for inciting young people to attack Pat Ramsey, the Fountain Estate and other anti-community activities. Pat Ramsey knows this, the church know this, Sinn Fein know this the PSNI know this the Real IRA know this and the dogs in the streets know this.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    El Mat,

    I don’t know about John Fee, but I remember one of your more lterary colleagues fron Castlewellan who was a prominent letter writer to the Irish News. He too claimed to have been assaulted by ‘republicans’ but had to change his tune after a number of owners of local hostelries confirmed his tired and emotional state after visits to said hostelries that night. His injuries were explained away by his relative unsteadiness.

    BTW have you any comment on the fact that one of your Assembly hopefuls (Orla Black, N Antrim) has confirmed that the SDLP pay people to do election work. You had previously denied this happened.

  • Pat-

    It happened in March 1994, and was raised in the Oireachtas. However, the detail is irrelevant to the thrust of my questions. So, what are your views on the provo attacks on the likes of John Fee? Were such attacks ok in the 1980s and 1990s, but not now?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    El Mat,

    i’m trying to establish if such an attack took place. I have already pointed out one of your drunken colleagues lied about such an attack in Castlewellan. The SDLP tell lies not just about alleged attacks but also about paying election workers.

  • sean

    Pat
    “SF has had more party members murdered than all the other parties put together.”

    Is that meant to justify something? Death is little more than a numbers game? Pathetic whinging that “nullifies” nothing and it certainly fails to justify the behaviour of SF towards the SDLP when they (SF) were refusing to tale seats on local councils.

    Is it nice in that self-delusional world you see yourself in? That’s a world where the Provos/SF never abducted, tortured or murdered their fellow countrymen!

  • Pat-

    Check CAIN or the Oireachtas minutes, or better still just ask anyone from Cross. Are you suggesting that there has never been an attack on an SDLP member by a provo?

  • fyi

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch94.htm

    Thursday 24 March 1994
    John Fee, then a Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP) councillor, was severely beaten by Republicans outside his home in Crossmaglen, south Armagh.

    http://www.uhb.fr/Langues/cei/chron94.htm

    THUR, MAR 24
    An SDLP councillor, John Fee, was severely beaten outside his home in Crossmaglen, Co Armagh.

  • BonarLaw

    Pat McLarnon

    I met John Fee in the years after the attack.

    The physical and mental scars he endured were real enough.

    Normally I find your Provo revisionism amusing. However, this attempt to add insult to injury is just twisted. Your next post should be an apology to John Fee.

  • Pat,

    the attacks on John Fee were a nasty business. I remember them quite distinctly at the time – they were just before the first IRA ceasefire. Trying to pretend they didn’t happen does your own case no good.

  • own goal

    Comical Pat strikes again

  • I was just thinking Pat, you could also ask the hospital workers who had to peel his clothing from his flesh, such was the viciousness of the attack. Or of course you could ask your buddies who did it. I’m sure both of these groups would verify that the attack took place. The fact that you can’t even bring yourself to recognise that such attacks occurred, never mind the fact that you are claiming that such claims are ‘lies’ simply shows the base and bloody depravity of provoism.

  • Newry Democrat

    I remember the attacks on John Fee and they were terrible. They left him in a bad way and has since (I have it on good authority) taken to the bottle. As bad as this was, SF did little to condemn the attacks. They issued the stock statements of condemnation but privately, in the pubs and clubs around Newry and Cross’, they offered little sympathy at all.

  • The Wash

    Provo Pat seems more concerned with trying to help the bhoys save face, despite what they did in the name of Ireland. The Nationalist people are not stupid. They know what happened. They what the Provos did and how SF supported that.

    That is what the Provos are known for. That is what the Pat is known for and that is what the SF is known for.

  • ingram

    Comical Pat,* shakes head*

    When challenged upon a point he puts his head under the blanket, bit like comical Ali.

    LOL.

    El Mat.

    Good point well made. They are a two faced party. How they have the kneck to still call you stoops is beyond me.

    Good Luck.

    Ingram

  • ingram

    Neck! sorry

  • ND-

    It is interesting to note that Fee was successively the most popular councillor in the Slieve Gullion DEA in the mid-1990s. Nowadays the provos gloat that they dominate the area- let’s face it, it was hardly difficult considering they intimidated any would-be SDLP candidates out of the democratic process with such attacks. How exactly were people supposed to canvass or even put themselves forward with that hanging over their heads? Thankfully things are on the change thanks to the excellent work of Geraldine and Dominic.

    Unsurprising that Pat is more interested in the idea of a few kids getting thrown a tenner to hold ladders rather than the issue of attempted murder of fellow nationalists.

  • realist

    Remarkable how the fact that Sinn Fein has had more members kiled than all other political parties combined has been dismissed and ignored so readily by all of the great democrats on this site. The hypocrisy of Dingbat Ingram et al is stomach-churning in the extreme.

  • Realist-

    The point of this thread is the attacks on Pat Ramsey. Unfortunately, provos have shown themselves reticent to admit their role in similar such attacks down the years. No one is denying that SF members have been attacked and killed, and I don’t see anywhere on this thread where this has happened. But what we have seen are statements of fact about attacks on the SDLP being dismissed as drunken lies. Something’s stomach-churning alright.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    El Mat,

    John Fee got assaulted but who by? Was it another drunken escapade by an SDLP party member? Your colleague in Castlewellan was up to it and was caught at the old porkies.
    Didn’t the SDLP have trouble with one of their Dunmurry coucillor who also got into a few scrapes through drunken buffoonery.
    You yourself have been exposed by one of your own party colleagues as coming on this site and lying.

    The Stoop Down Liars Party.

    As for the rest of the whinging anonymous trolls, I know there is an election coming up and the Stoops have played the multiple posts before, so simply try a new tactic.

  • realist

    As I said, remarkable how the fact that Sinn Fein has had more members kiled than all other political parties combined has been dismissed and ignored so readily by all of the great democrats on this site

  • BonarLaw

    Pat McLarnon

    In the words of realist, “stomach churning”.

    But did we really expect any better?

  • xx — xx — xx

    Pat, if I were you, I’d quit while I was ahead. Heaven forbid someone bring up the antics of a mob of drunken republicans who, after spending the day “commemorating” Bloody Sunday, returned to Belfast to brutally slay Robert McCartney. Or more recently, the wealthy drunken republican who savagely attacked an ex-prisoner after at the Swilly. There’s no shortage of drunken buffoons within the Sinn Fein ranks.

  • Pat-

    “John Fee got assaulted but who by? Was it another drunken escapade by an SDLP party member?”

    Your comments speak for themselves.

    Realist-

    I don’t know who dismissed the killings of SF members (presumably in much the same as Pat has dismissed attacks on SDLP members), but I certainly have no intention of doing such a thing. No one should be persecuted or killed for their beliefs, be they SFers, SDLPers or unionists. I wonder does Pat believe that Eddie Fullerton got killed after a drunken scrape with a few lads in the pub- of course, such an assertion would be ludicrous and offensive, but that’s exactly what he is doing in relation to attacks on people such as John Fee.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    BonarLaw,

    you may indeed be stomach churning but recognising the fact in such a public way may help you on the road to recovery, it is a battle a day, so good luck,

  • <>you may indeed be stomach churning but recognising the fact in such a public way may help you on the road to recovery, it is a battle a day, so good luck

    Still going swimming in Egypt, Pat?

    You would have much more credibility if you just said, “Yeah, a few of our bhoys did disgraceful things to John Fee. It was terrible. I hope it never happens again.” But you don’t. You have to play this ludicrous “the Chucks were whiter-than-white” game. You can’t handle the truth.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Sanmmy,

    Jack Nicholson said it with a greater degree of certainty and much more aplomb and he was only acting.

  • Pat-

    At least actors admit they are sticking to a script.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    El Mat,

    and they also admit they get paid, just like SDLP election workers.

  • Jack Nicholson said it with a greater degree of certainty and much more aplomb and he was only acting.

    And still you won’t answer the substantive point, Pat. Siiiiiiiigh!

    Denial.

  • Pat-

    I have never met an SDLP election worker who has been paid. I have, however, met plenty who have been intimidated by their provo counterparts.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Sammy,

    I have not been asked any substantive point, just a loaded question. Maybe you have one?

  • Pat-

    It wouldn’t be worth Sammy’s while- from what I gather, you are running on Provobot Operating System 2.01®. That version merely permits you to spout pre-installed propaganda and slurs, as opposed to interactively responding to questions. I hear that the programmers at Connolly House are working on v 3.01 which, when installed in your hard-drive, should enable you to recreate the conversational skills of a real human to a greater extent.

  • I have not been asked any substantive point, just a loaded question. Maybe you have one?

    I have too:

    * Was John Fee given a really, bad, brutal hiding by a group of over-testosteroned Silverbridge chucks in 1994 and it wasn’t all a product of a drunken imagination?
    * Was this a bad thing?

  • ingram

    Sammy,

    Your in for a long wait, Comical Pat is on shift change over! suicidal Gaskin is coming on soon.

    Ingram

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    El Mat,

    your 4.47pm contribution was piss poor even by your own low standards. come on smarten up is that really the best you can do.

    Sammy,

    John Fee did indeed receive a brutal beating and he alleged at the time he was beaten by republicans. Just as Paddy Clarke did after a session in Castlewellan and Hugh Lewsley did a number of times after a couple of sessions in the Hunting lodge. They were indeed all bad things.

  • John Fee did indeed receive a brutal beating and he alleged at the time he was beaten by republicans.

    But by your next sentence you imply he fantasised it all after a sesh.

    Denial.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Sammy,

    I have stated quite clearly that John Fee alleged he was beaten by republicans (at that time republicans denied it). I also highlighted the fact other SDLP members alleged they were beaten by republicans.

  • realist

    Ingram,

    there’s no doubt that you are half way there on your quest to be recognised as a renowned wit-or to put it more succintly you are indeed a half-wit

  • I have stated quite clearly that John Fee alleged he was beaten by republicans (at that time republicans denied it). I also highlighted the fact other SDLP members alleged they were beaten by republicans.

    Pat, you are now making yourself look ludicrous.

    You highlighted the fact other SDLP members alleged they were beaten by republicans, and also noted they’d been drinking. Implication – John Fee fantasised his beating because he was on the sauce. Pathetic.

    You also say republicans denied beating up Fee. But who else carried out a beating like that in Crossmaglen? The Brits? The UDA? The bogey man? There’s a point at which you just erode your own credibility, Pat. You passed that point about three hours ago and have been gathering pace ever since.

  • ingram

    Realist,

    Thanks Mate.

    Ingram

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Sammy,

    we are long past the point when people like yourself and El Mat get a free ride on any subject. Now that may make you uncomfortable but life can be tough.
    I have not stated Fee was drinking merely pointed out that SDLP members have form when it comes to credibility and why such allegations should be scrutinised.

    Your third paragraph tails off into the usual tripe of ‘who else could it have been’, which in itself is pathetic and ludicrous. As El Mat pointed out republicans were in the minority in that particular area sort of rules out the theory that republicans were all powerful in the area.

    BTW I was under the impression you had something substantive to ask?

  • grimesy

    Out of 10 million sperm, it’s hard to belive that Pat was the quickest…

  • Pat-

    “your 4.47pm contribution was piss poor even by your own low standards. come on smarten up is that really the best you can do”

    Ah lighten up (using those LEDs installed on your outer casing). I must have touched a raw nerve/ wire.

    Bizarre how you’re outraged by such tongue-in-cheek remarks, but not by the attempted murder of nationalists in south Armagh.

    “As El Mat pointed out republicans were in the minority in that particular area sort of rules out the theory that republicans were all powerful in the area.”

    As you and I both know, provo thuggery paid no respect to democratic mandates. Time and again the people of Ireland rejected provoism- the provos never needed a Mandate to Murder to carry on their campaign of violence against their fellow countrymen. Thankfully most of you now recognise the primacy of the ballot box.

  • grimesy

    Pat,

    If I speak out against Provo scum in my constituency, can I too expect a visit from Cullinane, Walsh, Mansfield, “et al”, every time I go home?

    I await a typically incoherent response!

    (Hint:- despite living here, my vote isn’t registered in – to quote you Shinners – the “North of Ireland”)

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    El Mat,

    got it now, it was an attempt at humour.

    I was not outraged by your remarks, I just thought it was a poor post. I was outraged by the attack on Fee, it was just in your attempts to point score you never asked mne that.

    grimesy,

    back under the bridge troll.

  • Sammy Morse

    sort of rules out the theory that republicans were all powerful in the area.

    That’s right, there were lots of other people willing and able to administer an extra-judicial beating in Cross so severe the recipient was left with long-term dependency problems.

    Of course there were. Go to top of the class, Pat.

    At least you’ve now said it was a bad thing.

  • Pat-

    “I was outraged by the attack on Fee, it was just in your attempts to point score you never asked mne that.”

    Point-scoring usually occurs in games. Attacks on politicians is not a game. I quite clearly asked you such questions, but you evaded answering, instead preferring to talk about alleged drunken scrapes. Nonetheless, thankfully you had your tea and had time to mull over it and come back with a less microprocessed response.

  • Wilde Rover

    If the tone of this thread is anything to go by it would appear that the perpetrators of this act have achieved their desired result.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Sammy,

    you will never learn will you, mention Cross automatically means IRA. A typical stereotypical Alliance view, any wonder your party is irrelevant.

    El Mat,

    nothing to evade, you tried to asked a loaded question, I simply ignored it and hit you with a few details of why I simply don’t take the SDLP at face value. They lied and as I have demonstrated so do you.

  • Whether you agree with Pat Ramsey’s politics or not, his six year old daughter is the one who has really suffered here, I hope she is able to recover from her trauma in their new home.
    Maybe those responsible feel very sorry now they see the effect their actions have had on her?

  • Crataegus

    Pat

    I would like to thank you for your courageous innings on behalf of SF. It has helped clarify all the attributes of SF which your responses echo. The sincerity, openness, honesty, and dedication to democracy not to mention the civil rights of all citizens all shines through. New SF the party of integrity, the caring party that accepts responsibility for its deeds where differences are tolerated and all citizens are equal.

    It sure does reinforce my intention to vote and clarifies who I should transfer to and who not to.

  • Cyberbollox

    I specifically remember that republicans regularly attacked the family,home and property of the previous SDLP Leader on Derry City Council, Pat Devine. They were also guilty of attacking John Hume’s Westend Park home when Mr Humes wife and children were at home on their own. The attacks included shots being fired and the windows being petrol bombed.

    That’s why Mr Hume had a reinforced front door and bullet proof glass installed. His biggest danger came from local republicans.Of that there caould be no doubt. I suppose you will deny all this too.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Crataegus,

    as you are an anonymous poster I am unaware if you are even of the age to vote, I sometimes doubt it. As for your voting intentions I suggest you inform someone who cares.

  • Crataegus

    Pat

    Polite eloquence is definitely your trademark.

    So you don’t care how people vote now that is a novel approach for a political party.

  • grimesy

    Pat,

    Who the fuck are you to call me a troll, eh?

    Rich coming from a stooge..

    Well let me spell out a harsh truth for you Pat:-

    95% of the people in the South wouldn’t piss on Sinn Féin if ye were on fire. Somehow, the thought of having self-righteous, murdering, two-faced, fasict “S(h)inner” bastards in government doesn’t exactly appeal to them.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    grimesy.

    Who the fuck are you to call me a troll, eh?

    Read your last post very, very carefully. The clue is in there somewhere.

  • grimesy

    Pat,

    I’ve no political party affiliations.

    Now, how many slugger regulars can quote the main three Shinner candidates in a certain Southern constituency (I even went to school with the lad who thinks he’s from Foyleside..)?

    The only other person would be Seamus Ryan – and no, I’m not a Labour party member.

    You’d want to turn off the button in your head that says “troll” everytime you hear something you don’t like!

    So Pyschopat, I’ll ask you again…

    Why am I a troll?

  • NOW NOW PAT

    i think grimesy is pat putting on a show so he can avoid answering ingram…

  • Sammy Morse

    mention Cross automatically means IRA

    No, although Chris Gaskin would have us believe so with his predictions that your lot were going to sweep 5 out of 5 in Slieve Gullion last time.

    However, in 1994, and SDLP Councillor being beaten up in Cross by half a dozen young men with local accents does kind of indicate the IRA. Unless you think it was an SAS dirty trick and they had developed much better dialect coaching since Robert Nairac’s day.

  • Crataegus

    Definitely classical Slugger.

    Not in a reasoned way, quite the opposite, but reading through the threat you get a clear whiff of the hand of darkness.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘being beaten up in Cross by half a dozen young men with local accents does kind of indicate the IRA.’

    So by that line of thinking, in Cross if there is a crowd of more than 5 young men (ie half a dozen)and they beat someone up they are automatically in the IRA. Bizarre!

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘No, although Chris Gaskin would have us believe so with his predictions that your lot were going to sweep 5 out of 5 in Slieve Gullion last time.’

    Yip that was a real failure, only getting 4 seats and 76% of the vote. Were there any wards in that election in which the Alliance Party even achieved that, 38% of the vote?

    BTW the only party to get a clean sweep in a council ward was SF in Lower Falls, 5 out of 5. Despite apparent dissatisfaction in the area.

  • Wow, the outpourings of concern for an innocent six-year-old girl here are simply staggering.
    Continuing arguing amonst yourselves lads, because thats what it’s all really about, isn’t it?

  • Padraig

    Pat McLarnon has proven himself to be a Jade Goodey voice of Irish Republicanism! And like JG who can’t see her own stupidity, arrogance blocks reason.

    Despite Comical Pat’s feeble attempts at revisionism, a majority of people will be truly repulsed at what has been happening to Pat Ramsey and his family. They will also remember those “Irish Republicans” who have offered little more than lip-service condemnation or shamefully condoned such actions in the past. Apart from being abhorrent to any true Irish Republican, it is a mentality that has put good men in an early grave!

  • grimesy

    NOW NOW PAT:-

    He wishes!

    He’s too busy claiming the Allies are nowhere near Baghdad…

    Barman:- “Grimesy, what are you having, mate?

    Grimesy:- “Gimme a Gin & Bitter Pat Mac – it’s been a long day…”

    And as for the 5/5 in the Lower Falls? Akin to Turkeys not voting for Christmas, the locals know what’s good for ’em!!