Building a Chinese wall between the PSNI and MI5…

The Andersonstown News editorialised today on the on-going spat between Sinn Fein and the SDLP over the latest statement from British PM Tony Blair on the future role of MI5 in the north. The paper interviewed a number of Republican ex-prisoners to highlight views within the community over the Policing debate.

  • heck

    I have a question. In this new reformed and civilian PSNI who appoints the chief constable and senior department heads? Will it be the justice minister in the devolved government or will it be someone in England.

    This is not a rhetorical question, I honestly don’t know

  • mark


    No change to the mechanism. The Policing Board appoints.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Some of the Republican ex-prisoners talk about holding to account those in the police who they think were involved in past actions against Republicans.

    If you were a foreigner, you would think Sinn Fein-IRA were some sort of peace group. No mention of the Sinn Fein-IRA death squads who murdered policemen (often in front of their families) being held to account. Sinn Fein-IRA need to start to learn to say “Sorry” and mean it. If they keep playing the victim, Unionists should not accept them in to Government given the murder, torture and ethnic cleansing they were involved in … and still refuse to say “Sorry” about.

  • ingram


    The policing board nominates.The Home office approve and Fund it. And then he or she and the force are regulated and inspected by Her Majesties Inspectorate of Constabulary(HMIC) take a look on line , the last report is very interesting.

    Of course republicans will like this bit?

    who leads that unit. Sir Ronnie Flannagan ex Head Of SB and ex CC RUC.

    We move on.

    quote However, a majority of republicans are now convinced, as the SDLP has been for some time, that the battle for real policing needs to be taken into the bunkered corridors of Knock. quote

    The Newspaper makes a very similar point to one I have been making for some time on this board . Why did it take them so long to see the light and recognise the harsh fact that the SDLP had it right from Day One.Why so many deaths?

    The next obvious point is this! if the leadership got this central core issue so wrong for so long WHY should anyone trust their ability to make the right moves in the future?

    Read the above extract. Even the Andersonstown News are putting the boot into the poor shinners.Now that is news.

    Ding Ding


  • achoo

    When even Squinter is making fun of Gerry Adams, you know things are bad.

  • ingram


    Some of the ex prisoners are obviously not fully recoverd from the torture inflicted upon them by the Police .Poor darlings.

    quote from this IRA prisoner. Sinn Féin is the only party that has brought the whole issue forward. Tony Blair made a statement today [Wednesday] saying that MI5 would no longer have a role in civic policing here and that has been won through Sinn Féin pushing that in negotiations.Unquote.

    When did MI5 EVER perform Civic policing duties? Never, that was clearly a hard fought concession in those negotiations.

    below is an extract from MI5 site.

    quote The Security Service is responsible for protecting the UK against threats to national security.

    We operate against


    Dissident Irish republican terrorist groups present a serious threat to British interests.

    These groups reject the Belfast Agreement (the “Good Friday” Agreement), continue to engage in acts of terrorism in Northern Ireland, and aspire to attack targets in Great Britain.

    The Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA) has not mounted a terrorist campaign since 1997. Its associated political party, Sinn Fein, is engaged in the Northern Ireland political process.

    Paramilitary and criminal activity by all paramilitary organisations continues in Northern Ireland.

    Other extremist groups, unrelated to the Northern Ireland situation, may aspire to campaigns of violence but lack developed terrorist capability.

    The two main dissident groups, which developed after splits within the Provisional IRA, are the “Real” IRA (RIRA) and the Continuity IRA (CIRA).

    “Dissident” Irish republican terrorism is the term used to cover the activity of republican groups that reject the Belfast Agreement and political engagement with the British or Irish Governments on any subject other than a “united Ireland”, and seek to continue a terrorist campaign against British interests. Unquote.

    Not one mention on their site about Burglary, speeding, rape or joy riding.

    They discuss threats to British national security and British interests.

    Irish Terrorist both PIRA and dissidents are considerd potential threats.

    Like Mick Fealty said. Sinn Fein just privatised the Special Branch.We should hope one day those ex IRA prisoners wake up from their suffering and enter the real world.

    Ding Ding


  • heck

    thanks for the info MI.

    so why all the fuss about the justice minister? he/she can do nothing. There is still no change in the policing system.

    I guess that when SF endorse the PSNI/UVF they can count me out. I am not on Ingram’s ding-a-ling bus

  • topdeckomibus

    The power, to appoint constables, is on loan from the people to the government by failure to hold local elections for constables.

    The people can re-assume responsibility by the expedient of holding parish elections.

    The Home Office position on this is that they argue that the appointment of special constables (local volunteers) meets the requirement of the Common Law. And hence they believe they have a power to appoint full time constables.

    The Home Office is wrong.

    Power is with the people. Select your own police.

  • ingram


    In truth mate there is no great change.The Home Office funds and controls the Police.

    The Justice Minister will be a good move to bring many of the local decisions closer to the community.BUT he can be overturned by London.The Mother Parliament is the senior body .

    The Police Board is no different than the police board in Manchester or Glasgow.

    The Chief Constable remains powerfull, he is measured and monitored by HMIC. Sir Pinochio.

    Don`t be too dissapointed.

    The Bus is invitation only, on this occassion you are not the profile of passenger HMG requires.

    Ding Ding


  • HazyDazy

    This is what Ingram thinks is “putting the boot to the shinners” and SDLP–and Martin–being right about it from day one?”

    “one suspects that, having signed up to the PSNI from day one only to see the British continue to make reforms, the minority nationalist party is more interested in out-Sinn Féining Sinn Féin than in getting this issue right.”

    Sure, that’s really putting the boot to Sinn Fein, Martin. Take your meds, there’s a good lad.

  • ingram

    Hazy Days.

    Well if it came to who got the most right about the last thirty years BETWEEN Sinn Fein or the SDLP /I know were my vote would go.

    The big story today is the convergence of policies.

    1. They both negotiated and recommended to the voters the removal of Articles 2& 3 of the Irish constitution.

    2. Both Sinn Fein and the SDLP are partionist parties working towards the removal of the British presence whilst acknowledging consent and the RIGHT of the majority to dicate any further constitutional change.

    The big question is WHY did he and Sinn Fein take so long to come in from the cold ?

    Ding Ding


  • heck


    Apart from our differences on Nor Iron this situation should be unacceptable to everyone. I remember there use to be some religious nuttier as chief constable in Manchester and he spent his resources raiding dirty book shops. I seem to remember that his police board had no control over him.

    In any democratic society the citizenry should be able to tell the chief constable where to spend their resources. Raiding dirty book shops or investigating home burglaries, protection children from child molesters or busting students for some pot. As it is now the police are unaccountable to their local “members of the public”.

  • ingram


    Yes, The man was James Anderton. He was a nutter and very pro Loyalism.

    He was John Stalkers Boss when he was fitted up with kevin Taylor after he rightly exposed RUC murder.

    The Police Board in I think Canbrigshire ( Neighbouring force) after the Huntley murders had a problem removing him even though his force had totally failed the community.

    The system is all about layers .Ultimately it all goes back to one place. London.

    In the South it is even less accountable.Just look at the Ombudsman situation in the South? Years after the GFA.

    Good Night


  • ingram


    Sorry tired.

  • circles

    “When even Squinter is making fun of Gerry Adams, you know things are bad.”

    Achoo – did you check the links before engaging the knee jerk? Or do you have access to the secret squinter files?

  • Spooky talk

    And in another super, soaraway exclusive, Squinter can reveal the transcript of the conversation between Gerry Adams and Tony Blair that led to the British Prime Minister’s statement yesterday emphasising that MI5 and the PSNI will have nothing to do with each other. Ever.
    Gerry: Tony, it’s about this new MI5 headquarters you’re building up Holywood direction.
    Tony: Who told you about that?
    Gerry: Calm down, Tony, it’s in the papers. Your spooks are up front about everything now.
    Tony: Oh, right. What can I do for you, Gerry?
    Gerry: Well, it would be a big help for me in selling this policing thing if you could make sure that there’s no monkey business between the PSNI and MI5.
    Tony: Monkey business?
    Gerry: Swapping information on Catholics, psy-ops, setting people up, spying on politicians, dirty tricks, collusion, murder – that sort of thing.
    Tony: Fine, no problem, I’ll ring them both and tell them they’re to stay away from each other.
    Gerry: You think that’ll do the trick?
    Tony: MI5 and the PSNI are not the kind who’d do things they’re not supposed to. You know that, Gerry.
    Gerry: Promise?
    Tony: Piggy promise.
    Gerry: How about we put a sign up on the new building saying ‘Visitors and Deliveries Only. No PSNI Past This Point’?
    Tony: Splendid idea, Gerry. We’ll put one up at Hugh Orde’s place just round the corner at Knock as well. How’d that be?
    Gerry: Tony, that’d be a big help. (Silence…) Tony?
    Tony: Yes, Gerry?
    Gerry: The PSNI and MI5 wouldn’t go sneaking behind our backs, would they?
    Tony: Perish the thought, fella. Those days are over. We’re all singing from the one hymn sheet on our side on this one. Our lads are all delighted at the prospect of Martin as Deputy First Minister.
    Gerry: Really? Aahh, that’s so sweet.
    Tony: You just put any idea of secret phone calls, clandestine meetings, unauthorised operations, star chambers, inner circles and scheming juntas out of that silly little head of yours.
    Gerry: Okay, Tony, and thanks.
    Tony: Don’t mention it, Gerry. By the way, are you getting a funny noise on your line too?

  • LOL, very funny.

  • páid

    erm Mr Ingram,

    if you honestly believe that Cambridgeshire is a neighbouring force to Greater Manchester, then I am going to have to revisit the cynicism I held when learning about Squaddies straying south of the border due to ‘map reading errors’.

    Boom Boom

  • BeardyBoy


    analysis seems correct from top to bottom – I better take some pills – you are sounding reasonably intelligent about this

  • ingram


    Slow boy Cambridgshire is the neighbouring force to the Huntley murders mate. New paragraph.

    quote The Police Board in I think Canbridgeshire ( Neighbouring force) after the Huntley murders unquote

    That was the murder of hollie and Jessica.


    quote analysis seems correct from top to bottom – I better take some pills – you are sounding reasonably intelligent about this unquote


    Ding Ding

  • Glen Taisie

    Can someone from Sinn Fein please explain
    “who will police the police?”

  • ingram


    Sinn Fein seem to be on holiday.

    No change.

    The British Home office( Home secretary) and HMIC ( Sir Ronnie Flannagan)

    anybody else is just ower down the food chain.

    Hope that helps

    Ding Ding


  • bootman

    Can someone from Sinn Fein please explain
    “who will police the police?”

    Posted by Glen Taisie

    “I dont know, the Coastguard?”-Homer

  • Glen Taisie

    If Adams agrees to rid his party of MI5 agents, Blair should then agree to rid the island of MI5 agents.

    Adams should be generous enough to make the first move.