Adams and Orde together at last…

GERRY Adams will be leading a Sinn Fein delegation to meet Chief Constable Hugh Orde tomorrow morning, which I think is the first ever official face-to-face meeting between the republican leader and a PSNI leader. Baby steps.

  • Hippy O’ Critter

    The wording Official was extremely accurate as they have had several meetings in private

  • Glensman

    Certainly first ‘Official’ meeting, but they’ve been in bed together for a long time now.

  • parcifal

    Could this be the Alpha and the Omega; or the Adams/Orde Accord.
    If Orde says to Adams:
    “Right your nicked son”
    I don’t think it’ll go down too well 😉

  • Baby steps for an infantilised society that thinks being nice to terrorists will win the day.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    But will there be a handshake?!

  • realist

    Will Orde shake hands with Adams, and call him mister, or say ‘hello sunshine?’.

  • realist

    great minds Gonzo.

  • parcifal

    no way Dr Vance, the world would shed tears of joy if Hamas or Hezbollah or Al-Quaida laid down their weapons. The fact that SF have got the IRA to do this is extraordinary and to be welcomed.

    People voted overwhelmingly for the GFA, why have you so much contempt for the electorate?

  • Belfast Gonzo

    David Vance

    That’s no way to talk about Hugh Orde.

    ;op

    More seriously, while I can understand your point, it could be argued that by accepting the police, the IRA is – to all intents and purposes – a gonner, nada, politically impotent.

    Would a politically astute move for Paisley at this time be to welcome the IRA’s ‘surrender’ after its disarmament…?

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Gonzo

    “…GERRY Adams will be leading a Sinn Fein delegation to meet Chief Constable Hugh Orde tomorrow morning, which I think is the first ever official face-to-face meeting between the republican leader and a PSNI leader.”

    I’m afraid you’re mistaken. Adams and Orde first met over TWO YEARS AGO. Here’s the link:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4049871.stm

    Unless you’re going to hide behind some tortuous definition of “official”?

    (I have to admit, I’ve heard and read a lot of unionists making the claim that SF doesn’t talk to the PSNI – which is quite simply a departure from the most easily demonstrated of facts.)

  • cregagh realist

    Wow !

    The deluded speak !

    if only unionism was so interested in the fully armed murderers within our own community.

    Loyalist paramilitaries & their supporters are still accepted by unionism. be it in sport, politics or by the great and the good within the orange order.

    Perhaps when unionism stops harbouring and accepting the continued prostitution, protection rackets,punishment attacks and sectarianism within our own community, we can critisize those who look like they want to change our society.

  • Sure there’s no story here- provos are oft to be seen in cordial discussions with senior peelers, not just about “important” stuff, but simply with a view to having the craic.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    It’s the first official, direct talks between the two, as the last time there were government officials to hold people’s hands.

    Not as groundbreaking as 2004, but a baby step nonetheless.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    For clarification, Barney Rowan wrote on Dec 6: “As part of the overall discussion, Sinn Fein is now prepared to meet with the Chief Constable and, one assumes, with his senior officers.

    This is the foot inside the policing door.

    Yes, it has been done before, but there was political cover on those occasions – in Downing Street, at Hillsborough and elsewhere.

    What is now being talked about is different. This is a direct dialogue on the policing issues that fall within the Chief Constable’s remit.”

  • bertie

    cregagh realist

    “Loyalist paramilitaries & their supporters are still accepted by unionism”

    Speak for yourself.

    I don’t find the criminality acceptable and I feel free to critisise terrorists

  • George

    Gonzo,
    “the IRA is – to all intents and purposes – a gonner, nada, politically impotent.”

    At the end of the day, like, the IRA is as much an idea as it is a group of people.

    The longer Adams’ shadow hangs over the current incarnation of the IRA, the fewer he leaves behind with the idea all to themselves.

    Orde will be delighted to meet Adams officially and Adams knows he has to officially meet Orde.

  • Gonzo,

    A few points.

    1. The IRA has not disbanded, nor disarmed in a credible fashion. The meeting with Orde is choreographed pantomime for the season.

    2. Sinn Fein/IRA will pollute policing whilst it remains wedded to terrorism.

    3. The only surrender I can see is a surrender of democratic principles to a ragbag gang of republican cut-throats.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    ‘Disbandment’ is a mere word, and I am reasonably satisfied that the IRA is incapable of mounting any kind of campaign in the current circumstances. Agree about the pantomime, but then optics are par for the course.

    Out of interest, at what point do you believe the IRA ceases to pose any threat to democracy?

    I’m not sure Caitriona Ruana would know what to do with a knife, but Gerry Kelly might, I suppose, if he didn’t want to be part of the establishment so much…

  • parcifal

    a ragbag gang of republican cut-throats
    my, that is so off the edge of the bell curve, we’re going to have to invent a new term for the extreme right wing. Combat 4/24 anyone?

    At least DV is honest though, as honest as the recent emails we see from Baby Doc; so we know what they really think privately.

  • Hey Parcifal,

    My consistent rejection is a matter of public record, as readers of A Tangled Web can verify!

    Gonzo,

    Fair points you make. I guess my point is that an armed and intact terror group always represents a threat. The IRA cannot do what they used to – post 9/11 that was always the case – but the criminality continues, as we all know, and the desire to control those areas which they parasite on remains. Worse still, they should never ever be allowed in a Government of a country they seek to destroy. That’s why unionists like myself have no interest in any accommodation with terrorists, though I accept others feel differently. I see no reason to reward barbarians of any hue.

  • bertie

    Well said David!

  • Rhodey

    [moderated – play the ball, not the man]

  • cregagh realist

    Bertie

    In accept what you say as an individual

    I know the orange order very well, i know that there are a large number of loyalist paramilitaries within its ranks, i know many members who are supporters of the uvf & uda.

    I know people who go to support Northern Ireland and their only reasoning in going to games is to try and glorify in their paramilitary beliefs and have no interest in football.

    Loyalist paramilitaries and their supporters vote DUP because of the history & association between the organisations.

    My unionism has no association with the orange order or the Shankill butchers, my unionism has no links with the scum who sell drugs within loyalist communities.

    Unionism isn’t about paramilitary bands, from urban centres or small villages, its about our heritage and ordinary folk being who they are.

    I see very little within the present unionist politic that represents me ??

  • Wilde Rover

    Yes David,

    For shame that the honourable police force of the People of Ulster is to be polluted by these barbarians.

    Why can’t they understand the principles of democracy? I imagine they will also not be able to understand it if the border were redrawn to create another permanent majority. Do these filthy fenians not understand that their role is to be feckless and unemployed, doing menial odd jobs for the People of Ulster?

    If Carson were still alive, he would sort out these uppity curs with condign punishment and beat some sense into them (in a totally un-barbaric way, of course).

    When will the mud races learn they should worship at the feet of white Anglo-Saxon Protestants?

  • bertie

    “Do these filthy fenians not understand that their role is to be feckless and unemployed, doing menial odd jobs for the People of Ulster?”

    It’s not anyone’s job to be a murdering bastard, but some have made it an art form , either to do it or support it.

    It is indeed a warped mind that objects to someone else objecting to terrorism and terrorists on government.

  • overhere

    I find it sort of weird in a twisted kind of way that a few days ago we had a blog on two DUP MPs mail correspondence with an “ex” paramilitary goon, the replies from the Unionist/Loyalist sections was basically “now don’t say anything yjey are trying to get things sorted never mind the language they are using”.

    Now here we have the leader of SF meeting the leader of the Police and we have the Unionist/Loyalist section say “how dare this happen they are up to no good”.
    Is it just me or are there some very glaring double standards going on here.

  • JR

    Wilde Rover, Carson is long gone, so is the Ireland he knew. Even his most ‘Loyal’ supporter, Paisley, has turned Lundy. The Union is in decline, it’s a slow creeping revolution that will bring equality to Ireland.

  • Globetrotter

    All Unionists good and beyond reproach, e.g. IPJ and wee Jeff, all Republicans evil and underhanded barbarians.

    Simple really!

  • bertie

    No Globetrotter, it’s simpler, all terrorists and their supporters are evil and underhand barbarians and it is a sickening sight to see them being legitimised by meeting with the police chief, excpet under caution. In the same way that is is sickening that Purvis is on the Policng Board.

  • Oilibhear Chromaill

    It’s not anyone’s job to be a murdering bastard, but some have made it an art form , either to do it or support it.

    I beg to differ, Bertie boy, because what we’ve learned over the years is that the police and British Army was full of people who were paid to be murdering bastards. Not to mention the loyalists who were paid spies for MI5 and who carried out killings willy nilly of non combatant civilians.

    David Vance should be more careful of who he calls ‘cut throats’ given the company unionists keep – what was the name of that DUP MP again who stood on the back of a lorry with a LVF cutthroat? One of those MPS, incidentally, who doesn’t want to share power with SF but has no problem sharing a platform with a murdering bastard (paid for by the state, no doubt)

  • Malachi O’Doherty

    Adams officially met Orde and sidekick ACC Peter Sheridan in Downing Street in December 2004, before the Northern bank robbery.
    A funny story comes out of that. Sheridan had been to Nell McCafferty’s house in Derry to get her to sign her memoir. While there, Nell had served Sheridan a bowl of soup that Mrs McGuinness across the street had made for Nell and her sick mother. In Downing Street, Sheridan remarked to Martin that his mother made a lovely bowl of soup.
    Martin perhaps felt he was there to discuss more serious matters.

  • kadenza

    David Vance, very dissapointing that you feel that way. Your comments are the other end of the dissident nonsense but nonsense none the less.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “I know people who go to support Northern Ireland and their only reasoning in going to games is to try and glorify in their paramilitary beliefs and have no interest in football.”

    Er.. how exactly? By not waving paramilitary flags, not singing paramilitary ditties,not booing their own players and not seeing particularly inspiring football? So their paramilitary involvement is sitting in the Alex Russell stand? Scary. Sure most of them are on the Costa del Sol or in Thailand hoovering up industrial quantities of cocaine. That’s when they’re not down the local loyalist drinking club.They can’t even make money from NI at the bookies with their protection racket money- the bloody team keeps wrecking their accumulators, by beating Spain or losing to Iceland.

    “Loyalist paramilitaries and their supporters vote DUP because of the history & association between the organisations.”
    Actually most loyalist paramilitaries despise the DUP which they regard as sanctimonious.They are particularly contemptuous of Paisley. If they vote at all, its for Davy Dikshunary and his pals. Pre-PUP, there was a strong level of support for the UUP because it was anti-Paisley, especially in Belfast. Shure davy keeps crying that the DUP won’t even speak to him

  • bertie

    creagagh realist

    “In accept what you say as an individual ”

    cregagh, my view is pretty standard amongst the unionists I know

    “I know the orange order very well, i know that there are a large number of loyalist paramilitaries within its ranks i know many members who are supporters of the uvf & uda. ”

    I also know many Orangemen and know how disgusted they are with these gangsters. At the last twelth I was talking to one who had been over to the Somme commemoration and who was expressing his utter disgust at the presence of these loylaist thugs quoting the phrase “scum of the earth paying tribute to the salt of the earth”. I’m not saying you don’t know the people you speak of, but they are totally unrepresentative of the Orangemen that I know.

    “I know people who go to support Northern Ireland and their only reasoning in going to games is to try and glorify in their paramilitary beliefs and have no interest in football. ”

    Again I don’t know such people but again I’m not saying that they can’t exist. Indeed one of the most fervent NI supporter I know, who would never miss a game was a Roman Catholic.

    “Loyalist paramilitaries and their supporters vote DUP because of the history & association between the organisations. ” Why don’t they vote PUP etc? Lots of people vote DUP because they see them as the party most likely to stand up to all terrorists and do not accept that there is history or association between the organisations. Weren’t the terrorists cheerleaders for the BA?

    “My unionism has no association with the orange order or the Shankill butchers, my unionism has no links with the unpleasant who sell drugs within loyalist communities.”

    Apart from your inclusion of the OO, and the euphemistic “unpeasant”, I can identify with that.

    “Unionism isn’t about paramilitary bands from urban centres or small villages,” No and the OO isn’t either. I have yet to see one and I hope to go to many more twelths and don’t exepect or desire to see any.

    “It’s about our heritage and ordinary folk being who they are.”

    Yes and no. Unionism is about advocating the Union. For many, possibly most it is tied up in identity and heritage as you say. However there may be other reasons

    “I see very little within the present unionist politic that represents me ??”

    I see individuals within unionism that I respect and have faith in as I beleive that they are genuineky disgusted by terrorism. That is by far and away the biggest criterion in my assessment of them. After the UUP and the BA, I am unlikely to place my trust in any party ever again.

  • bertie

    “Shure davy keeps crying that the DUP won’t even speak to him ”

    darth I wish you hadn’t told me that. The poor wee soul. That has just about spoiled my Christmas!

  • Yokel

    What are those on the rejectionist wing of republicanism going to make of it?

    Fury, a ‘we know they are in bed with them, see’, a tool to beat the Sinn Fein leadership with?

  • barcas

    Re David Vance’s remarks at 17 above, you all seem to miss what DV says:

    ‘2. Sinn Fein/IRA will pollute policing whilst it remains wedded to terrorism.’

    There has been a strong belief in some circles that the police have been wedded to terrorism of the Unionist/Orange variety for the past 80 years. Now we have it from the horse’s mouth that policing is wedded to terrorism.

    Thanks David.

  • Wilde Rover

    “It is indeed a warped mind that objects to someone objecting to terrorism and terrorists in government.”

    I have no objection to someone objecting to terrorism and terrorists in government as long as that person acknowledges that their ideology has been backed up by terrorism and terrorists in government.

    and my viewpoint is warped?

  • So Gerry and Hugh had quite a cosy chat over a wee cup a tee; now there’s news! Yet another step in the feeble attempts of SF to emulate the respectability of the SDLP. Only a shame for the revisionistes that they can’t run away from what they did and where they came from!

  • I appreciate that the moral relativism that pollutes Irish Republicanism means that they mostly cannot distinguish between the forces of LAW, such as the Police and the Army, and the LAWLESS, such as the IRA, UDA, UVF et al. Hence some the confused comments preceeding this.

    But just so we are all clear, I fail to see how the endoresement of the PSNI by a terror mafiosa is the way forward – unless one thinks going over a cliff is progress.

  • parcifal

    unless one thinks going over a cliff is progress.
    hey David leave hang-gliders out of this ok; they’re a harmless bunch of daytrippers (snigger)

  • They have their feet more on the ground that some politicians, that’s for sure!

  • Wilde Rover

    Provos on the British payroll, loyalists on the British payroll, the army and police on the British payroll, all performing tasks with the backing of the LAW.

    but if you want to split hairs.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Very cosy but is my community meant to start whooping and cheering? The Provisional IRA have not disbanded, SF have not signed up to policing and members/former members of the Provies were involved in a gangland killing of a drug-dealer in North Dublin…hardly a recipe of confidence with a dollop of hope for the P-U-L community is it?