UDA forces out Irish Diplomat?

Anyone know what’s behind this?Update: Barry McCaffery, in the Irish News today:

The threat is understood to have come from loyalists aligned to Andre and Ihab Shoukri, who were expelled from the mainstream UDA earlier this year. Ms de Baroid is one of the Republic�s most senior civil servants to be stationed in Northern Ireland and is a member of the North/South Ministerial Council. She regularly meets senior loyalist and republican community leaders in working-class areas across the north. However, it is understood that she was informed in recent weeks that dissident loyalists were actively targeting her.

Hat Tip to bemused (even if he was on a ‘Red Card’) and mayoman.

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  • Bemus e d

    The Irish News are reporting that it’s emanated from the Shoukris who have made the threat to try to embarass Jackie McDonald.

  • Rory

    Mick,

    I’m afraid that “this” appears to require registration.

    Are you able to elaborate, please?

  • brendan,belfast

    thats the first time i heard the phrase ‘dissident loyalists’. interesting. can a group that is not on ceasefore and openly takes over housing estates from time to time have ‘dissidents?’

    what do you have to do to get labelled as such?

  • Mick Fealty

    try it now Rory.

  • jone

    Beeb version here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5362468.stm

    The phrase dissident loyalist has been bandied about before, chiefly as a UVF/ PUP description of the LVF. So it appears to be a phrase used to describe former comrades who’ve fallen out with their old friends or leaders.

  • Rory

    I think a better term might be “diffident loyalists”. They are diffident about engaging in any activity where bully force and firearms are not employed against defenceless citizenry. A hangover from the methods of the old state, Ulster, to which they once pledged loyalty, no doubt.

  • loftholdingswood

    The headline is obviously not only wrong but mischievous, untrue and designed to pander to Sunday World type readers who have the attention span of a two year old. The UDA has threatened no one. In fact, via the UPRG and assorted Loyalist representatives, it has a good working relationship and a healthy respect for the person concerned, whose removal is a blow to good community work and progress. This all stems back to the local problems in North Belfast a while back. The UDA can hardly stop a couple of cretins making a phone call and issuing silly threats. The UPRG spokesman has reiterated today that the threat does not come from any mainstream grouping and is bogus.

    It is always worth remembering that those who can’t get things done tend to threaten and those that can get things done tend to not announce it but just do it.

  • Pete Baker

    Mick

    Equally interesting is the use of publicly paid civil servants by Martin McAleese – in what was previously described as his “work in a private capacity”.

    As for the idea that this threat came from a break-away group from the UDA… well, once again, how convenient..

  • “Ms De Baroid was moved in August” and this is only in the news today, to coincide with what? Is this story being controlled by a mini-Max Clifford somewhere, I wonder.

  • The latest from the PA
    http://www.mediapointireland.press.net/article.jsp?id=675119#page5

    The threat was also labelled a disgrace by Sinn Fein Assembly member Alex Maskey.

    The South Belfast Assembly member observed: “This threat is clearly being taken seriously by the Irish Government, given the fact that all of the main unionist paramilitary gangs remain highly active and have given no indication that they are prepared to end their anti-Catholic campaigns.

    “This individual is credited for doing much good work within working-class unionist areas and the threat to her life is disgraceful.

    “At a wider political level, what it does is expose the folly of the current DUP position of attempting to create excuses not to move forward because of an IRA which has ended its campaign while on the other hand turning a blind eye to the activities of unionist paramilitary gangs.

    “The DUP, as the lead unionist party, have a clear responsibility to address and tackle the issue of unionist paramilitary violence.”

  • Dec

    The UPRG spokesman has reiterated today that the threat does not come from any mainstream grouping and is bogus.

    No doubt it’ll turn out to be the work of those dastardly Red Hand Defenders. On the bright side, I’m sure you’ll still get the £135K.

    Ps Is Jackie off to the K Club this weekend?

  • loftholdingswood

    “Ps Is Jackie off to the K Club this weekend?”

    With the weather forecast as it is I have advised him to just watch it on Sky instead.

  • Cardboard Vox

    Hain should cancel the £135k he has given to loyalists and give it to the Victims of Loyalist Violence.

  • Dec

    With the weather forecast as it is I have advised him to just watch it on Sky instead.

    We shall never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mists of an Irish Republic, not least when Sky is covering every shot in HD.

  • loftholdingswood

    “We shall never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mists of an Irish Republic, not least when Sky is covering every shot in HD.”

    Come on now. Surely you don’t think that we have the funds to watch it in glorious HD? Nope, it’s a bog standard 28″ cheapo Beko TV, a cup of tea courtesy of the wife and a clutch of bookies betting slips (no, not the same bookies that Andre used) all with the name USA on them (it’s a hunch – and they were odds against).

  • cynic moi

    Cyberscribe, it appears to be a case of ‘I’ll see your amputated limb and raise you an Irish diplomatic displacement’ vis a vis the timing.

  • Daisy

    This is what happens when you try to divide and rule loyalists through the use of exclusive golf clubs. Someone always gets jealous at not being invited.

  • darth rumsfeld

    well you know loftholdingswood there was a time when loyalists understood that their whole raison d’etre was to stop Dublin interference. it’s a measure of how far they have deviated from even a nod in the general direction of that-albeit always a very fragile- attachment to Unionist principles, that they’re falling over themselves to hug a Dub. I don’t condone the threat for a minute, but one less interfering Iveagh House suit is good news.

  • Mayoman

    Very ‘unionist’ in your ‘i don’t condone, but i like the outcome’ vibe there darth. No wonder people question unionists commitment to ridding their own community of paramilataries.

  • loftholdingswood

    “well you know loftholdingswood there was a time when loyalists understood that their whole raison d’etre was to stop Dublin interference. it’s a measure of how far they have deviated from even a nod in the general direction of that-albeit always a very fragile- attachment to Unionist principles, that they’re falling over themselves to hug a Dub. I don’t condone the threat for a minute, but one less interfering Iveagh House suit is good news.”

    It is not a question of hugging a Dub (or anyone else for that matter) but an exercise in pragmatism and diplomacy. If someone (from any background or place) genuinely wants an input into what we are about and where we are going then we should listen to what they have to say. Are we that lacking in confidence of our own position that we don’t want to hear what anyone else has to say? It is the lexicon of the fool to just bury their heads in the sand and go along a certain path without looking at different aspects or different thinking. If we have a raison d’etre it is to lead our people away from an insular, frightened existence into a positive and prosperous future (prosperous meaning not necessarily shedloads of money) . If that means meeting people from different backgrounds and stating our case then so be it. It can’t harm us. It is a well told tale now but when I went to Dublin (along with a coach load of others) to visit the President I went there as a Loyalist, listened to her as a Loyalist, spoke as a Loyalist and returned from there still a Loyalist. It irks people (UUP, DUP, liberal types) that we are finding our feet and discovering that the only way to rise above the deprivation, that others would love to see us remain in, is to look inward at ourselves, change ourselves and demand to be part of the new status quo.

    If that means speaking to whoever we wish to speak to then so be it. I don’t see the point of threatening people who want to play a part in our transformation.

  • cynic moi,
    Maybe it proves that British diplomats are tougher than Irish ones. eg…
    David Reddaway, the new British ambassador to Ireland, is used to being in a tight spot. During the Iranian Revolution in 1979, he was a junior official in an embassy that was bombed and attacked on an almost daily basis. As the staff dwindled from 70 people to just four, it often fell to Reddaway to personally eject armed rioters from the premises. http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=17295-qqqx=1.asp
    or is it “no job for a woman” 😉
    will I get hit by Mrs Fitzzz now?

  • Now, now, Mayoman (btw, v. poor showing in Croker) you shouldn’t call it ‘unionist’ as the technical term is a “pre emptive disclaimer” often invoked by those with similarities to those who initiated the technique… the good ol’ boys in the southern states of USA in relation to attacks on uppity blacks.

    The Dubs played a poor semi and the sporting public then had to suffer. Ath Cliath abu.

  • Greenflag

    ‘If we have a raison d’etre it is to lead our people away from an insular, frightened existence into a positive and prosperous future (prosperous meaning not necessarily shedloads of money) . If that means meeting people from different backgrounds and stating our case then so be it. It can’t harm us.’

    Very true and the other side of the coin is that the people you deal with might actually begin to see loyalists as something other than bogeymen from the back of beyond . Why they might even have a case as well as a raison d’etre .

  • darth rumsfeld

    speak to whoever you want lofty- just don’t think inviting Dublin civil servants round for tea and being brought a wee coffee cake as a present means you can then complain when they decide to poke their noses in seven days a week.It’s no wonder the Unionist electorate spurn political analysis form UPRG if it’s so weak. This person’s job is to liase with loyalists, to collate information on them, to find out what can buy them off in one scenario, or crush them in another eventuality. The only thing she can do that a suit from the NIO is offer better junkets or bribes in euros not sterling. It may not harm your case talking to her, but it sure as hell won’t advance it either.

    And you’re right mayoman, I wouldn’t shed a tear if every Dublin civil servant was helicoptered out of Notting Hill or Windsor House or whereever in his pyjamas a la Saigon- but I wouldn’t shed a tear either if every loyalist paramilitary leeching off working class communities was locked up and the key thrown away.The idea that loyalist paramilitaries can pull their communities out of the deprivation they have exploited for years flies in the face of all the evidence

  • Mayoman

    In the meantime (before the Siagon-like episode occurs), darth, you’re happy, just like your mealy-mouthed unionist politicians, for the “loyalist paramilitary leeching off working class”-types to do your dirty work for you. And furher more, claim in public that the outcomes of thir actions can be a good thing! What would you have said if she was shot? You were gonna throw a party?

  • Mayoman

    Anonymous: take your beating! 😉 Your just still sore that not only did we kick you out the all-ireland, we kicked you off Hill 16 as well! (take your point though, we were crap on Sunday!) 🙂

  • frank

    Strange how little has changed within unionism over the last 80 years , the dup/uup types talking down to the unionist underclass, telling them to know their place.

    I’m just amazed the unionist grassroots still vote for the ‘self-proclaimed’ unionist gentry !!

  • dantheman

    Mayo were shown up in the final for the bunch of perennial posing bridesmaids they always are.

    DR, would you be happy to see the woman in question killed by these dissidents? There seems little condemnation of the initial threat to her.
    Try not to get too upset about Dublin civil servants up here, this will increasingl be the norm from now on. Sorry old chap.

  • Mayoman

    Dantheman: agree with everything you say. But like anonymous, don’t get upset just because Northern football has been found out for the neanderthalic, gym-bench focussed, unskilled rubbish that it is. Mayo back to the drawing board, along with every muscle-bound nordie outside of (the Brazil of GAA :)) Donegal!

  • dantheman

    mayoman,

    dissapointed foy mayo, would like to have seen them won. But they have to break that cycle sooner or later. you are indeed 100% correct about northern teams, too physical and were found out this year. Not that upset, just disapppointed because i knew a few people from ballina and crossmolina and they knew the team were beat before they stepped onto the pitch.

    Frank,

    Unionism is still a funny old concept. Still believing in the old class system of the empire and still thinking they are grownups while england sends them pocket money week in and week out.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “you’re happy, just like your mealy-mouthed unionist politicians, for the “loyalist paramilitary leeching off working class”-types to do your dirty work for you.”

    Not at all,dear boy. I would be quite happy to tell her to buzz off in person.

    “What would you have said if she was shot?”
    I would have said it was deplorable, and condemned the person who did it. I would have called on people to provide information to the police to apprehend the perpetrators. In short I would have wasted my breath-but in a deeply sincere way, I hope you agree.But then I wouldn’t be responsible for cossetting or pandering to the terrorists who actually did the crime, would I? Unlike the unfortunate Miss Haemorrhoid’s masters

  • Mayoman

    “wouldn’t be responsible for cossetting or pandering to the terrorists who actually did the crime, would I?”

    Fraid you would, fraid you have been. This sort of ‘i hate them too old bean’ and then ‘but, hey the outcome was great wasn’t it’ sort of sub-apologia is totally transparent. The woman was here legally and with the consent of the British and Irish governments. She was no threat to you, or to anybody els. Yet you liked thae fact that she was terrorised out of NI. Either take back your initial comment, or stand accused as an apologist.

  • jaun

    one could ask if the massive civilian casualties of the easter rising means the outcome could never be deemed good.

  • Mayoman

    In terms of casualties (as this woman is, and could have been in a worse way) then NO! When is someone dying ever a ‘good’ outcome? However, it would be better to stick to the point hey jaun?

  • bertie’s bunker

    “peak to whoever you want lofty- just don’t think inviting Dublin civil servants round for tea and being brought a wee coffee cake as a present means you can then complain when they decide to poke their noses in seven days a week.It’s no wonder the Unionist electorate spurn political analysis form UPRG if it’s so weak. This person’s job is to liase with loyalists, to collate information on them, to find out what can buy them off in one scenario, or crush them in another eventuality.”

    That’s precisely right. True loyalists will inevitably sweep away the bribed cadre of traitors who currently allow themselves to be flattered by their enemies into submission, collaborating with those who seek to neuter and destroy us. It has happened at every point in Ulster’s history and the nauseating K Club love-ins only serve to hasten it. Thank God.

  • POL

    It can’t harm us. It is a well told tale now but when I went to Dublin (along with a coach load of others) to visit the President I went there as a Loyalist, listened to her as a Loyalist, spoke as a Loyalist and returned from there still a Loyalist. It irks people (UUP, DUP, liberal types) that we are finding our feet and discovering that the only way to rise above the deprivation, that others would love to see us remain in, is to look inward at ourselves, change ourselves and demand to be part of the new status quo.

    Funny how things change.Used to be that unionist politicians would tell the Potestant community that no matter how bad off they felt ,at least they were better off than their Papist neighbours.Now we see loyalists on a bus excursion to Dublin to tell of their tales of woe under direct rule. Well at least its a start when they realise they have been taken in by their policos,maybe they will start to see the positives of a UI.

  • kloot

    collaborating with those who seek to neuter and destroy us

    Who, the Irish Government 🙂 LOL.

    Seriously mate, you have no idea of the apthy down south to the North. Weve moved on. The ordinary Joe soap doesnt give a fiddlers about NI politics down here. Should a vote on a UI ever take place, people in the south would have to take a long and hard look before agreeing to accept the concept of a UI.

    So why does the Republic have anything to do with the North, well, because the reality is that a successful outcome to the peace process in the North is required for the south to secure its people.. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • bertie’s bunker

    And they will have to take a longer and harder look if our defenders haven’t been sold out by a bribed leadership.

  • Miss Fitz

    Cyberscribe
    Bet you thought I missed that one…….

    Funnily enough, Fr Troy was interviewed on the radio this morning about this, and described his own feelings on having a death threat issued against him.

    I’ve had a vaguely similar experience, and its no joke. You just feel your whole world is tilted and you trust no-one for nathing.

    Personally, I dont think it matters a damn be you a woman or a man if it happens, and I know of people who have either toughed it out or moved, and that would be fairly even among the sexes.

    I chose to stay put with increased security, but I cant describe how frightening it is, and how utterly vulnerable you feel. I have full sympathy for anyone who hikes south in the face of such threats

  • I’d reckon if someone’s intent on murdering someone else they could find them no matter how far south they hiked.

    I still think there’s another reason for this information to be issued so long after the event.

    ………………………………………

    On a different theme, are there any feminists that read Slugger?

  • bertie

    It is totally nonsence to take someone saying that they like to outcome of a wrong act as meaning that they somehow condone the act.

    If an organ comes available after someone is murdered and a resulting transplant saves the life of a child, are the childs parents condemning the murder but expressing joy at their child’s dramiatically increased life expectancy to be branded as mealymouthed apologists for the murderer.