DUP hypocrisy over right to march

The DUP have strongly opposed (subs needed) a planned dissident republican parade for a nationalist estate in Ballymena. Ian Paisley Jnr claimed the parade was “intended to provoke public disorder and tension around this protestant town.” For the record, Sinn Fein, the UUP and the SDLP are opposed to the parade as well. However, does this not expose the hypocrisy of those within political unionism arguing for the right to march ‘the queen’s highway’ as their excuse for supporting Loyal Order parades in contentious areas? Furthermore, following on from Paisley Jnr.’s assertion that Ballymena is a ‘protestant town’ and therefore presumably should not host republican parades, are we to assume that the DUP will in future oppose Loyal Order parades in ‘catholic towns’- like Derry or Newry???

  • fair_deal

    Just plain wrong.

    “‘catholic towns’- like Derry or Newry”

    Cities surely 😉

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Mayhaps Big Ian’s senility is rubbing off on his cub… Can’t remember what he had for breakfast or the arguements he made last week.

    Its not quite as funny as the OO fella screaming and railing about how he “condoned” the violence until someone ‘splained to him that word didn;t mean what he thought it did, but its close.

  • George

    “‘catholic towns’- like Derry or Newry”

    “Catholic” surely unless you really think Derry and Newry are free from provincial prejudices or attachments.

  • joeCanuck

    Don’t be so silly Chris.

    We all know that God is a protestant and only gave marching rights to protestants.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    George,

    not the point.

    If it is meet and just for the Loyal Orders to march on the queen’s highway without so much as a “by your leave” or consideration for local passions, should any Nationalist group be held to a higher standard?

  • Frustrated Democrat

    Are dissident republicans a legal organisation?

  • Bob Wilson

    Chris
    If you post every time a DUP rep says something hypocritical …..

  • Gum

    They are citizens FD.

  • Resolve

    I don’t have time to read up on all the details, but prima facie this seems to be overtly hypocritical. From the details you have provided, Chris, the march will take place in a nationalist estate. It would be interesting to find out if the route involves going through any unionist/loyalist areas… if it does, then there is surely a case for opposing it. Of course, like most of us I would personally be against paramilitary marches, full stop. But if this was the criterion of objection, then Paisley Jnr. is acknowledging that the “right to march” is not an absolute right, but a qualified one (as it most certainly is, in the ECHR/HRA)… whether any organisation is deemed to have such a right depends upon, as here, their proclaimed support for paramilitary groups. There would surely be an argument against many Orange lodges in this respect.

    If it doesn’t pass through any loyalist areas, and is solely contained within the nationalist estate, then (no matter how Protestant the town of Ballymena is outside this estate) perhaps Paisley Jnr. should look at the analogy with non-contentious Orange marches. While many nationalists may not wish for these marches to go ahead, they tolerate them and they pass off peacefully. As I said, prima facie hypocrisy. Apologies if my post betrays an ignorance of the details. Will surely read up on it later on…

  • George

    Dread Cthulhu,
    my only point was that I thought Chris should have used a capital C in Catholic.

    As regards this march, if they aren’t going out of their way to march where they aren’t wanted, I couldn’t care less where they march.

    If the locals in this “nationalist” estate aren’t plussed about this, why should I be?

    If they wanted to stroll through some British loyalist estate or by my gaff it would be a different matter.

  • TAFKABO

    It’s almost as stupid as seeing someone who kidnapped, tortured and killed a woman lecture us on human rights.

  • nmc

    Either we all have the right to march, or none of us do.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    George: “If they wanted to stroll through some British loyalist estate or by my gaff it would be a different matter. ”

    And were that the standard for Loyal Orders parades, I might be inclined to agree. But, since the Loyal Orders are permitted the use of the “Queen’s Highway” through nationalist areas, what legitimate arguemnt is there to prevent Nationalists from walking the same road in Unionist areas? Gravy for a goose is gravy for a gander.

  • fair_deal

    Gum

    “They are citizens”

    1. I never said they weren’t.
    2. It was the opposition to the parade that is “just plain wrong”.

  • gg

    Maeve Connolly wrote in the Irish News on 4 July about Dunclug:

    “However, the estates have a religious and ethnic mix of residents.

    Unofficial statistics put the religious breakdown as 49% Catholic, 46% Protestant and five per cent ‘other’ or ‘unknown’.”

    So, it appears the area is almost evenly mixed.

    I am against OO marches going through nationalist or mixed areas. But the old sauce for the goose argument works both ways – if the Orange Order is so bad, them why do exactly what they do?

  • Prince Eoghan

    Point of order.

    These guys are a political grouping right. Some may find them abhorrant, but nonetheless they cannot be compared to the OO in terms of type of organisation.

    Is it not time for a moratorium on all kind of divisive marches.

  • gg

    PE

    “Some may find them abhorrant, but nonetheless they cannot be compared to the OO in terms of type of organisation.”

    If anything, they looked a lot more intimidating on the TV in their INLA(?) gear last year than the old men in the bowler hats!

    “Is it not time for a moratorium on all kind of divisive marches.”

    It would certainly make life a lot easier.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Eoghan: “These guys are a political grouping right. Some may find them abhorrant, but nonetheless they cannot be compared to the OO in terms of type of organisation.”

    Are they, the OO, not sectarian? Are their marches not divisive? Do not some of their parades run the eisk of exciting the passions of locals, not to mention their Loyalist auxilliary bands?

    The parades are comparable because of the passions they excite and their nature, not for what they purport to represent.

    Eoghan: “Is it not time for a moratorium on all kind of divisive marches. ”

    Little Ian, at least when his Da’ lets him, alternately says “yes” and “no,” depending on who is marching.

  • nmc

    If it’s the same parade as last year, it’s Fisherwick, not Dunclug. Both of which are almost exclusively catholic estates. I don’t know where the stats come from suggesting that Dunclug is evely split, but I dispute them.

  • gg

    nmc

    The official route is as follows, as it says on the PC website:

    Fisherwick Cresent, Fisherwick Gardens, Broughshane Road, Cushendall Road, Dunclug Park, Cushendall Road, Frys Road, Broughshane Road, Fisherwick Gardens, Fisherwick Cresent.

    It was in Fisherwick only last year because the commission put restrictions on it, and let them march for about 500m!

  • McGrath

    I think I read something about a moratorium on marches in another thread.

    Regardless, this is just another example of de-constructiveness by extreme elements of both communities.

    Such a march will achieve nothing within the wider community, it will only raise tensions and ingrain more hatred. The organizers of this new march should feel ashamed of themselves by perpetuating Northern Ireland’s problems.

    As for IP Jr, does he realise his own entertainment value? I’ll bet the DUP are devising a cunning plan to trick him into changing his name.

  • Prince Eoghan

    “Eoghan: “These guys are a political grouping right. Some may find them abhorrant, but nonetheless they cannot be compared to the OO in terms of type of organisation.”

    Are they, the OO, not sectarian? Are their marches not divisive? Do not some of their parades run the eisk of exciting the passions of locals, not to mention their Loyalist auxilliary bands?”

    Dread.

    If anything sectarian(OO) in my view are worse than these guys(political) who have little hope of being divisive on a wider scale at present. Of course their message may gather momentum the longer the assembly farce goes on, and sectarian organisations like the OO are afforded legitimacy.

  • gg

    PE

    “If anything sectarian(OO) in my view are worse than these guys(political) who have little hope of being divisive on a wider scale at present.”

    The march last year didn’t have the appearance of a political parade. Dressed in black berets and paramilitary style uniforms with dissident republican regalia and flags. Echoes of certain OO lodges/bands with their UDA trappings? What sophistry will be involved in explaining the difference?

  • Prince Eoghan

    “What sophistry will be involved in explaining the difference?”

    I think you mistake me for someone else. I am not a fan of para-military bands of any hue, I think that Republicans copy Orange/Loyalist type regalia to their detriment, as the thuggish look only apalls.

  • Ziznivy

    “If it’s the same parade as last year, it’s Fisherwick, not Dunclug. Both of which are almost exclusively catholic estates.”

    NMC. This is entirely wrong. There are parts of Dunclug which are almost entirely nationalist. There are parts of it which are very mixed indeed. I can think of several Protestants I know who live in Dunclug and I have no special knowledge of the estate or its inhabitants.

  • nmc

    I re-iterate. Any stats that show Dunclug as mentioned above:

    Unofficial statistics put the religious breakdown as 49% Catholic, 46% Protestant five per cent ‘other’

    I would happily wager a years wages on this being incorrect. I went to school with, and socialised with people from these two estates. Dunclug I know well. The protestant population of Dunclug would fit better with the stat given for “other”.

  • gg

    “I would happily wager a years wages on this being incorrect. I went to school with, and socialised with people from these two estates. Dunclug I know well. The protestant population of Dunclug would fit better with the stat given for “other”.”

    Well, someone with some knowledge came up with them! I suspect they are ‘unofficial’ because of the way the census works with sensitive data like this. Boundaries are a bit blurred to keep things confidential, but an error margin of approx. 50% is unlikely. And I’m sure she didn’t just pick numbers out of a hat! Anecdotal evidence is very often wrong in matters like this.

  • mnob

    … erm does this not show up the hypocrisy on both side ? Or am I missing something.

  • GrassyNoel

    (Sigh)- Look, I’m tired of suggesting this, but here we go again…

    Why not build a fake town, like they did in Blazing Saddles, with interchangeable fake scenery, depicting incensed local residents beaten beaten back by the PSNI, with full sound effects provided, then people can march through all day, every day of the f*cking year exercising their “rights” and celebrating their “culture” if they want to? There. Problem solved. You’re all very welcome.

  • Turbo Paul

    I believe IP jnr should be given credit for his honesty.

    It is not equal rights that has ever been on the Unionist agenda, but more, considerably more, than equal rights for Unionists/Loyalists.

    This is a clear example of why Unionist/Loyalists will never enter into powersharing unless they are dragged kicking and screaming, or in fear of losing their voice, to the table.

    The root cause of the problem is the fact Unionists want to retain their special status achieved by being loyal to the Brits, a reward similar to that given by the Nazi’s to the Vichy.

    However, it has to said that this partiqular march is objected to by other parties, not leaset Sinn Fein.

    I really do believe however that most level headed Unionists cringe when they see this blatent kind of hypocracy by leaders, who should know better.

    I am also sure that the average Unionist and Republican can live side by side in peace but it is the leaders who, because of their own enjoyment of junkets and priviledges, refuse to compromise.

    The only way forward in preventing public outrage at marches is for all sides top agree to suspend all, i really mean all marches for 10 years.

    A march free NI for 10 years would certainly give all the people time to pause for thought.

    Those who try and hide behind “Right to march Quenn’s highway” do so in the full knowledge of the insightment marches cause on both sides and therfore really only want to march to insight the other side not to display any kind of ideal or mantra.

    So, lets have a decade free from any kind of marches if there is sincerity on any side.

  • lib2016

    Wasn’t there a period in the mid 19th Century when the government simply banned parades? The truth is that in some ways this is a society which has actually gone backwards since those days.

  • binlid

    “I believe IP jnr should be given credit for his honesty”

    I also believe he should be given credit for his stupidity.

  • lib2016

    mnob,

    The disputed march is by a small unrepresentative group of dissidents who are being criticised by the majority of their own community.

    Paisley is a senior elected representative of the majority community who is criticising the marchers for behaving as he and his supporters do.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Does anyone have any idea who exactly these people are? Lumping everyone who doesn’t fully agree with the PIRA into the same ‘dissident’ basket is absurd.

    And anyway, non-SF republican political parties are just as legal as SF. If convicted PIRA bombers are going to be allowed to be Ministers then surely this organisation is as legal as any other (although of course we don’t know who exactly is marching).

  • kirk

    Strange that that the DUP have a problem with this parade yet were silent over the orange order commemoration of uff commander Joe Bratty & uvf killer Brian Robinson during the 12th parade in Belfast.

  • Prince Eoghan

    OC.

    According to RSF it is Gerry and the boys who are the dissidents. Just by the level of traffic they seem to be attracting lately on here, the message seems to be hitting home somewhere.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Prince Eoghan said: “According to RSF it is Gerry and the boys who are the dissidents.
    Exactly, which is why people shouldn’t just automatically heap extra derision on non-SF republicans.

    When SF attack so-called dissidents it’s just point-scoring in their fight to be the big party in republicanism. Is this an RSF(Republican Sinn Fein)/CIRA march? If not, who is it?

    We’re 37 comments into a thread about a disputed march and we don’t seem to know who’s marching! Does anyone have an Irish News subscription to find out?

  • Ex UUP

    am against OO marches going through nationalist or mixed areas – gg

    Good to see the KKK is alive and well in nationalist areas, just replace “No BLACKs” with “No Protestants” and you could be in the deep south

  • Ex UUP

    Are they, the OO, not sectarian? Are their marches not divisive? –
    no, and no
    The OO is a protestant organistation, and no more sectarian that the catholic church…er….

    the marches are only divisive because nationalists do not wnat protestants in their areas, the KKK mentality which cause the deaths of thosands of protestants at the hands of murderous catholics and their “army” over the last 40 years

  • kirk

    “the marches are only divisive because nationalists do not wnat protestants in their areas”

    Or perhaps they don’t want an organisation who glorifies loyalist terrorists passing their homes.

    if the orange order carry banners and other regalia commemorating mass murderers they can hardly be expected to be made welcome in areas were their victims families still live.

    Shankill butcher Bobby ‘Basher’ Bates
    Ormeau bookies mass killer Joe Bratty
    sectarian uvf killer Brian Robinson
    uvf bomber Geoffrey Freeman
    uvf killer Aubrey reis
    uvf commander John Bingham
    Noel’Logi’ Shaw

    etc….

  • bertie

    No parade or march supporting terrorism should be allowed in any part of the UK.

    This parade should not be refused in the grounds of where it proposes to go but because of what it is.

    If any OO lodges or ccompanying bands have regelia commemorting terrorists they should not be permitted in ANY area either, althoug accusations of the latter normally don’t seem to hold much water and are often related to the old UVF not the modern day scum who hijacked the name.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Ex UUP:
    the marches are only divisive because nationalists do not wnat protestants in their areas,

    That’s a very simple error of fact you have made. Whatever the nationalist’s reasons, and whether or not they are justified, the fact remains that their mindset is nothing to do with not wanting Protestants.

    You should always find out the actual reasoning behind your opponent’s thinking, no matter how flawed you believe the reasoning is. It’s a simple difference between facts and lies.

  • gg

    Ex UUP

    I am actually a unionist. But not being one who likes to impose myself on others, I think it is probably best to keep displays of religious fervour to going to church. To be honest, forcing a march where it is not wanted by the mixed or nationalist population is basically illmannered in the extreme – very un-British – and much the same as the point I was making about the dissident march in this thread!

    However, to be criticised by you is almost a compliment!

  • Prince Eoghan

    OC on ex-uup
    “That’s a very simple error of fact you have made.”

    It is only occassionly that he makes simple errors, usually they are out and out errors. Re the Republican march. I don’t know but I would reckon on RSF, their message is certainly being heard more and more in my part of the world, Glasgow. I don’t know anyone in Ballymena, so this is just a wild guestimation. I doubt if there would even be a majority of Republicans, never mind Nationalists in favour of the march.

    gg.

    How very British of you old chap, reserved and to the point;¬)

  • kirk

    “althoug accusations of the latter normally don’t seem to hold much water and are often related to the old UVF not the modern day #### who hijacked the name.”

    Bertie

    An orange lodge in Belfast carried a bannerette commemorating uff commander Joe Bratty during the 12th parade in Belfast.(as was reported and filmed on utv on their evening news report on the 12th evening)

    The bannerette was presumably recently commissioned by the lodge as it had not been carried by the lodge previously.

    The old Boyne Island Heroes lol633 carry a lodge banner commemorating Shankill butcher Bobby ‘Basher’ Bates, uvf killer Brian Robinson and uvf commander John Bingham, as well as other terrorists killed during the 1970’s & 80’s.

    The Freeman Memorial FB have been regulars at orange parades for many years, they are named in memory of Geoffrey Freeman, a uvf man who blew himself up while carrying a bomb in 1975.

    The Shankill Star FB take part in many orange parades including this years 12 Parade, the band are dedicated to the memory of Brian Robinson and carry his name on the bands insignia. Robinson was shot dead by undercover soldiers on his return fromn murdering a catholic man, Patrick McKenna in 1989. At Robinson’s funeral the coffin was flanked by eight collette-wearing members of the orange order.

    The Noel Kinner flute band (sons of ulster) from Glasgow are also regulars at orange parades including orange order parades in Belfast & this years apprentice boys parade in Ballymena on Easter Monday. The band carry a banner in memory of Noel Kinner, a convicted uvf killer.

    There are many other bands with paramilitary connections being hired and paid by the orange order (not just in Belfast), Greengairs Thistle FB, EBPBFB, etc….

    Its not about accusations of paramilitary involvement in the order, its fact.

  • bertie

    Kirk if what you say is true (and I have to say that I have similar accusations that have turned out to have no substance). That such lodges/bands should be banned for parading ANYWHERE! I do not accept that any group of residents can create a no go area. Mnay people have got objections to homosexuality. Shoudl they be alloed to stop a Gay Pride Parade, not in my opinion. Nor should Gay Pride have to worry about going where they are not wanted.

  • Ex UUP

    kirk,. so what you are saying is that the OO should parade down the garvaghy road so long as there are no offensive banners then

    good to know that

  • Fanny

    Excuse me, I’ve only now joined this thread.

    Can someone tell me how many marches this “dissident republican” group is holding, and how that number stacks up against the number of OO marches Master Paisley approves of?

  • baj

    ex UUP says ‘kirk,. so what you are saying is that the OO should parade down the garvaghy road so long as there are no offensive banners then.’

    Really ex UUP? so that’ll be the twelfth of never then?……

    Are the banners that Kirk mentioned legitimate and honourable expresions of protestant culture?
    If you feel that they are not, what efforts would you suggest should be made to remove these to prevent the OO’s name being further sullied in the same way next year?

  • kirk

    “Kirk if what you say is true (and I have to say that I have similar accusations that have turned out to have no substance). That such lodges/bands should be banned for parading ANYWHERE! I do not accept that any group of residents can create a no go area. Mnay people have got objections to homosexuality. Shoudl they be alloed to stop a Gay Pride Parade, not in my opinion. Nor should Gay Pride have to worry about going where they are not wanted”

    Bertie

    i suggest you contact utv to get a tape of the 12th of July news report on the orange order commemoration of uff murderer Joe Bratty.

    Just google the rest if you are in denial.

    I wish the gay community well during their annual parade through Belfast city centre, i personally think the parade brings great colour and an acceptance of a changing city and acceptance of diversity within a new and changing city.

    I can’t recall seeing any banners commemorating mass murderers during the gay pride parade.

    The KKK through Alabama, no.
    The BMP through Brixton, no.
    The uvf or uff through nationalist areas, no.

  • AngloIrishman

    This is not a Republican Sinn Fein/CIRA march. The people taking part in it are quite a loose grouping of republicans, mainly from Antrim Town and Ballymena but with some from further afield. They don’t have any alignment with the Continuity IRA but have more links with the 32 County Sovereignty Committee.
    The main face of this collective is a convicted bomber called Paddy Murray, originally from Beechmount. He lived in Rathenraw in Antrim until September last year, when he was arrested on a charge of kidnapping. He was remanded in custody for six months and is now free on bail.
    Murray fell out with local Sinn Fein representatives in Antrim about three years ago. His group are armed and are likely to have more capability than is commonly admitted by the Police Service of Northern Ireland or the Security Services.

  • Pat

    At the end of the day ALL Citizens in a Democratic State have the same rights as each other. Therefore this group have the same rights to parade as the Orange Order.

    What these people are doing is highlighting the inequality and total ineffectiveness of the equality laws heralded by some politicians.

    It would be very interesting to see the reactions of other DUP politicians in Belfast in the event of a Nationalist St. Patricks Day parade being requested along some contentious routes. A parade from Ligoniel down the Crumlin Road or the Whiterock down the Springfield Road to the Falls.

    Maybe the local communties in these areas should apply to walk those routes and see if the DUP support their rights to march.

  • Prince Eoghan

    AngloIrishman.

    Where did you get this info from? Do you know if they have much support among the locals?

    Pat.

    They want to take out all elements and symbols of Irishness of any future Paddy’s day parade in Ireland’s second city. They are a laughing stock throughout the world. Yet this same mindset finds no problem with funding divisive bonfires/marches. Don’t see much hope for your proposals then.

    Seems the maiden city festival was not divisive enough to warrant an on-going interest from Unionism. You see it can’t be a proper representation of Unionist culture without all the trappings of flaunted hatred. Alas, this festival that has REAL elements of culture, and could have been billed as potentially cross-community has had to be cancelled this year.

  • binlid

    Prince Eoghan,

    Athony McIntyre wrote a piece about Paddy Murray in the Blanket recently titled ‘Dupe Process’.

    As for the bits about being ‘armed and having more capability’ I don’t know about. The rest seems pretty accurate.

  • AngloIrishman

    Prince Eoghan

    I have spoken to Paddy Murray on numerous occasions. His support is very thin even in his own Rathenraw estate where quite a lot of people have remained loyal to Sinn Fein. His wife stood for Council last year and got hardly any votes at all, though admittedly not as few as Jim Sands (!)

    binlid

    Security sources have told me that this particular republican collective has access to more firearms than any of the loyalist groupings in the Antrim area. Would you refute that?

  • bertie

    Kirk


    I can’t recall seeing any banners commemorating mass murderers during the gay pride parade. ”

    and of you did should that mean that no gay pride should ever be allowed again.

    “The KKK through Alabama, no. ”

    No! – The KKK though ANYWHERE – NO!

    “The BMP through Brixton, no. ”

    Difficult one (I presume that you mean the BNP). Hard to pin thme down to terrorism but if you can then they shouldn’t be allowed anywhere and if you can’t then they should be allowed anywhere.

    “The uvf or uff through nationalist areas, no.”

    Why the **** should “unionist areas” have to have them either? The UVF and UFF should not be allowed to parade ANYWHERE!

  • kirk

    Bertie

    I agree

  • bertie

    Kirk

    How the hell did THAT happen?? 😉

  • binlid

    ‘Security sources have told me that this particular republican collective has access to more firearms than any of the loyalist groupings in the Antrim area. Would you refute that?’

    AngloIrishman,
    No I wouldn’t refute that, as I said I would’nt know about the groups armed capability but I would be very surprised if it had access to more firearms than loyalists in the area.
    Your ‘security source’ may be blowing smoke up your ass.

  • AngloIrishman

    ‘No, I wouldn’t refute that, as I said I would’nt (sic) know about the armed groups capability but I would be very surprised if it had access to more firearms than loyalists in the area’

    Firstly, that is a contradiction because on the one hand you admit you wouldn’t know and on the other make a semi-judgement.
    Secondly, this particular collection of ‘dissidents’ are very small in number, stretch right across Ulster and are known to have access to a disproportionate amount of firearms.
    My source has no reason to lie.

  • GrassyNoel

    I think republicans of all hues are making a huge mistake by trying to respond in kind with having these kinds of marches through areas where they are likely to cause antagonism among the local populace. What is this hoped to achieve? I’ve said it before many a time if they can show Unionists that the marches don’t bother them, unionists will probably lose interests in the marching season very quickly and we will see what quicksand this whole argument of ‘protestant culture’ being expressed is built on. The only reason so many unionists insist on the right to march is so that they can stick 2 fingers up to nationalists and try to provide some kind of ‘cultural’ counterbalance to Gaelic culture like the GAA, trad music and the Irish language so that they can further argue that on the grounds of ‘cultural differerences’ the 2 sides of the sectarian divide can never unite, therefore partition must always remain. But nationalists allow themselves to fall into this trap every time, and it’s playing into the hands of unionists and loyalists. And then they concede the moral high ground when OO halls are targeted by arson attacks. Foolish. The more nationalists ignore these silly parades – hard and all as I know it must be – the quicker they will disappear off the streets, because if unionists can see that it stresses out nationalists, the more they will insist that marches and parades be driven through nationalist areas. If they sense that the marches are not longer having the desired effect, they will lose support.

    Failing that, I’d go with the ‘Blazing Saddles’ idea. (see comments page 2 of this thread)

  • bertie

    GrassyNoel

    I will take the bigotry in your post as being representative of you and not extrapolate it any futher. I’m sorry to tell you that when I am out enjoying my culture I am doing just that. (Apart from a general desire not to deny anyone else their rights), I am far too self centred to be thinking about you when I am doing it.

    Ornage parades are enjoyed for what they are not because other people don’t like them.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Bertie.

    Get real please.

    GrassyNoel.

    There should be no need to put up with this shite in any normal society. Much of what you say stinks of 2nd class citizenship, get off your knees and demand an end to sectarianism, do not advocate that victims accomodate it. 100% agree with you about copying marches, though I think that these guys are not intending to go through any Unionist areas.

  • GrassyNoel

    Bertie

    I don’t mean to be insulting mate, I’ve long advocated on this site that OO parades be allowed to march if it will help to cool the atmosphere up there but as for trying to convince people who live in the real world that loyalist marching bands parading through Catholic areas is about your ‘culture’, forget it. No non-unionist – or put it this way no-one without a unionist agenda – anywhere on this planet will ever agree with you on that one, so just give it up. Do you honestly think that the police in Scotland would allow Centic fans to march through Glasgow Rangers territory after a derby match chanting the score and jeering at rangers fans with the police beating back anyone who tried to stop them, no they wouldn’t nor would the police in Spain tolerate Barcelona Fans taunting Real madrid in that fashion, or Inter Milan fans doing it to AC Milan fans etc.

    If you can ‘celebrate your culture’ in a nationalist area, why the hell can’t you do it in a park or a field somewhere or at least in your own part of town. Despite the best efforts of Fair Deal and others on this site, it has and always will be an open-and-shut case.

    Prince Eoghan

    I appreciate the point and totally sympathise with nationalists up North who have to put up with this nonsense, and having personally witnessed first hand the scenes on the streets of Dublin when the Love Ulster parade was about to pass through down here, words from a Southern nationalist must ring a bit hollow in relation to this particular topic. But I can’t understand how people can reconcile wanting a United Ireland with constantly locking horns with people who need to be convinced of the merits of a UI over what really could be a much less contentious issue. If Unionists want to continually obsess over some battle that was won 3 or 4 hundred years ago, why not let them, or at least try to come to some arrangement whereby they rotate 4 or 5 different routes, and march through Nationalist areas every 3 years or so.

    Liek it or not there will never be a UI without the consent of Unionist people that’s just a fact, so if people don’t at least try to be a bit less offended by their little pretend ‘languages’ and made-up ‘culture’ and just learn to roll their eyes at it (even if it is designed just to antagonise people of a Gaelic tradition), perwhat hope of a solution will there ever be?

  • GrassyNoel

    Er…’perwhat’ is not some attempt to use fancy vocab, it’s just a typo…one of a few I’ve now spotted.

    I’ll get me coat.

  • Prince Eoghan

    GrassyNoel.

    It becomes an emotive issue to have people thrusting their hatred of you down your throat. No decent society should have to put up with it, full stop.

    The Frankenstein that is the 6 co’s with an inbuilt Unionist majority is all too slowly coming to and end. However this majority have in their minds legitimised the OO, an organisation that projects intolerance and behaves in a way that would not be tolerated elsewhere in the world. Instead of the full weight of the law falling heavily on them when they flaunt this hatred, instead they are being financially rewarded. It is a strange society that acts thus.

  • frank

    Some of the Scottish paramilitary bands who take part in orange order parades here in the North, are unable to fly their paramilitary flags and banners in Scotland due to the new anti-sectarian legislation.

    The orange order in Scotland have been forced into acting against those who support and commemorate terrorist killers during parades, due to the new laws.

    There is unlikely to be any change here, as sectarianism and paramilitarism is part of the cultural tradition.

  • bi

    “Firstly, that is a contradiction because on the one hand you admit you wouldn’t know and on the other make a semi-judgement.
    Secondly, this particular collection of ‘dissidents’ are very small in number, stretch right across Ulster and are known to have access to a disproportionate amount of firearms.”

    AngloIrishman,

    The various loyalist groupings in Antrim are known to have links with other loalist groups across the South East Antrim area ie Larne, Carrick, Rathcoole. North Belfast and mid Ulster. I would estimate they would have ‘access’ to a considerable amount of firearms.

    As you have said this is a small number of dissidents stretching across ‘ulster’. The definition of disproportionate could mean anything.

    “My source has no reason to lie.”

    ‘Security sources’ in this part of the world are notorious for being economical with and embroidering the truth to suit their own agenda.

  • gg

    PE

    “100% agree with you about copying marches, though I think that these guys are not intending to go through any Unionist areas.”

    They are intending to go through almost 50/50 mixed areas, as the statistics above show. I personally wouldn’t want an OO march going through such a mixed area either.

    I wonder why him in charge doesn’t march through Rathenraw?