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242 Orange Halls burnt down and counting

on 15 July 2006 , 3:45 pm 75 | 38 views

The 242nd Orange Hall burning since 1989 took place last night in Lurgan. This is the third arson attack on the hall in recent years. The culprits had to smash through the roof as windows were bricked up after previous attacks. It has received cross-community condemnation.

  • Miss Fitz

    I would like to think that this could be universally and unequivocably condemned. There is no reason, right or justification for these acts of mindless, moronic vandalism.

    Cross community condemnation is one thing, more useful would be cross community education and understanding, all year round.

    It would be nice for a change to see someone prosecuted for these horrifying acts

  • slug

    Agree 100% with Miss Fitz.

  • Donagh

    Disgraceful, shameful, reprehensible, appalling, but hardly ‘horrifying’ Miss Fitz.

  • Prince Eoghan

    FD/Miss Fitz.

    The tears are running down my back. If these guys did not go around projecting so much hatred, then quite possibly they would not attract any.

    BTW there was a place of learning severely damaged, is that not of much higher importance?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5180394.stm

  • “Cross community condemnation is one thing, more useful would be cross community education and understanding, all year round.”
    Yup, that’s right!

  • fair_deal

    PE

    That attack was already highlighted on a thread by Chris yesterday but don’t let that stop you trying to blind your eyes to an act of sectarianism because you dislike the victims.

  • Donagh

    FD, what it your purpose in posting this stuff i.e. what you have posted is freely available to us all on the news sites and it’s all over today’s newspapers. Do you have any comment to make on this issue, are you even willing to engage PE in debate on the issue or is it as some of the more cynical might think, that you are simply on a sectarian, mopery points scoring exercise?

  • fair_deal

    Donagh

    “what it your purpose in posting this stuff”

    1. Challenging perceptions.
    2. Slugger has an audience beyond here that may not check the local news-sites.
    3. As you say it is a major story so maybe people may wish to debate about it.

    “are you even willing to engage PE in debate on the issue”

    Why would I want to debate the justification of sectarian attacks? I dont agree with sectarian attacks or can be justified and I can’t see someone persuading me otherwise.

    “Do you have any comment to make on this issue,”

    I must admit this criticism of my threads is reaching the surreal. If I comment on an issue I am attacked for bias, misrepresentation or harming slugger’s impartiality. Now I can’t report a story straight either. As I said to the critics of my comments, believe what you want to believe about me as I don’t have the inclination for a pantomime debate.

  • Prince Eoghan

    FD.

    I am a simple guy. I pretty much like everyone(well within reason) The victims you speak of are merely timber and brick(building). The protaginists that use these halls dispense hatred projected at me and mine. An accident of religion has decided that I am hated.

    Do they know me? Do they know my children?
    Please don’t preach to me, I can choose to dislike those who hate me, without you or anybody inferring sectarianism on me.

  • Miss Fitz

    Donagh
    The day you arent horrified by vandals wilfully burning down someone’s place of importance is the day you need to ask yourself ‘where has my sense of humanity gone?’

    We become de-sensitised by these kind of events, and as FD points out, we are now seeing hundreds of Orange Halls being burnt.

    So I stick to my words of condemnation, and just wish I could make them more resonant and shake the cynical, complacent attitudes that destroy any hope of progress

  • Kevin

    This is the type of incident the DUP could use to justify an extension to the Nov24 deadline and the UK Govt could use to grant it. After all, the other excuses are wearing a bit thin. Is it possible there is another squad of rogue spooks at work, it looks too convenient to me.

  • Donagh

    Looks like I have lost my sense of humanity then. On a day when I’m horrified by the bombing of a beautiful city in Lebanon and the killing of 200 in Afghanistan, still getting over the mindset of the people that can stand around bonfires in Ahoghill, I must be all horrified-out. So I apologise for not being suitably outraged at the burning of hall belonging to a sectarian/racist (all in the same in my book) organisation in a town where the PSNI forcibly allowed loyalist thugs to erect their flags in a nationalist part of town so nationalist too could take part in ‘Orangefest’.

  • Miss Fitz

    Donagh
    We can be horrified all over the world, but lets stick to NI for a moment.

    I take your point, and think you are correct to rail at injustice.

    The point I am trying to make is that as nationalists, we cannot justify a barbarian act by saying, well…. it’s OK, cos….. they did……

    If you are looking over the fence at an organisation and calling it sectarian, you need to look into your own heart, quietly and ask: Would I have the teeniest bit of racism beating here?

    Them burning us doesnt excuse us burning them.

    We need to stand back and see the horror for what it is, all of us, and start to move on

  • Donagh

    FD, my point is that you didn’t comment, merely copied (or should I say advertised) a story from the BBC.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Regarding those that will come on here and try to argue that the OO don’t project hatred. This is an argument that David Blunkett would see through, on this I agree with FD about pantomime debates, God knows he should know.

    Did those fine members of the Unionist community preparing for orange-fest know Micheal Mcilveen, I doubt it, didn’t stop them mocking hid death though did it. The point is that the OO projects and facilitates hatred against myself and my co-religionists. Do I advocate the burning of their gang-huts, no. I won’t cry crocodile tears over them being attacked, turkey’s don’t vote for christmas.

    Is it even sectarian to attack an organisation such as this? I honestly don’t know. Sure they are a sect of sorts, a positive sect, certainly not. They are not an organised religion. Indeed this whole thing is crazy. What serious civilisation with pretensions of democracy would tolerate such an organisation in it’s midst.

    To those who in normal circumstances are the targets of this hate, and who dare to excuse the OO. Speak for yourselves, you do not speak for me. I don’t have to understand intolerance, they have to understand tolerance.

  • PHIL

    Fair Deal,

    The whole July 12th business appears to me as an outsider to be about demonising Catholics and symbols of the Irish Republic rather than celebrating Orange culture. As I am neither Irish nor Catholic I can’t say that I take offence personally, but I can see why other people do. If the Orange order want to be taken seriously as a cultural organisation and be respected not only by Irish Catholics but by the wider world, then they need to tackle the rabid b’gotry of many of its members and their hangers on. Until that happens I’m affraid that sympathy for attacks like the one you have described is going to be in short supply.

  • Donagh

    I’m not excusing the burning of the hall, merely putting it into perspective. No one was hurt, the hall will be rebuilt and life will go on. Meanwhile down the road from the hall, nationalists in the Kilwilkie estate are being driven further into the arms of the dissidents by the actions of the PSNI and dare I say it, the incident last night should be a further waning of the direction things are going the area at the moment.

  • fantrick

    [See Commenting Policy.. again – edited Moderator]

  • fair_deal

    Donagh

    Interesting perspective.

    Nationalists dislike the display of flags so rather than go “Hey no one was hurt, its only cloth. They’ll be taken down in a while or the weather will blow then away. Life will go on.” Instead some go “This means we should join/support those who believe in planting indiscrimnate car bombs.” Hmmmm.

  • Donagh

    No FD, you are missing the point. The flags were illegal, i.e. there was no permission for them from the Council and the PSNI escorted loyalist thugs while they were erected despite protests from locals. Now, the very least the PSNI should be doing, especially in an area like this is to enforce the law, not pander to triumphalist thugs erecting flags where they are not wanted.

    You might think this is a minor issue, but in a community which has borne the brunt of RUC collusion with loyalist murder-gangs, things like this are extremely emotive – it gives the impression to people that nothing has changed. Things like this alone don’t turn people to the dissidents, but there is cumulative effect, incidents mount up and before you know it youths are burning symbols of those loyalist thugs in a mistaken belief they are hitting back.

    Last night it was the Orange hall, who’s to say next week something else won’t happen which will encourage them to take the next step toward supporting the dissidents. But of course we all know that would suit the unionist agenda perfectly – we’d all be sure of our position then wouldn’t we?

  • Dec

    Fair_Deal

    Are you really going to start a thread every time an Orange Hall is attacked? And is it just coincidence that every time a Catholic Church/ GAA hall is attacked or Loyalism engages in sickening displays of mocking dead Catholic children you’re off washing your socks somewhere?

  • Donagh

    Oh, and you still haven’t told us why you think this incident was so significant that it deserved it’s own thread on Slugger. What are your thoughts on it? Do you know the hall – is it used much? Why do you think it happened? What could be done to prevent it happening again? Should it be rebuilt? Etc… etc…

  • TAFKABO

    Once again we see that the problem is not so much the attacking and burning of Orange halls as the causal acceptance of thse actions by so many people who see nothing wrong with it.
    That Fair Deal is being attacked for even mentioning it is a sad reflection of the sectarain hatred within the Nationalist community.
    They are open about their hatred, they don’t even see it as a problem.

    It’s not the actions of the minorty that counts, it’s the reaction of the majority.

  • Prince Eoghan

    “a sad reflection of the sectarain hatred within the Nationalist community.”

    One day the emporer will appear naked to you TAF, and all will be revealed.

  • lib2016

    The cretins responsible for this behaviour neither know nor care anything about republicanism. One doesn’t fight sectarianism by indulging in sectarian behaviour oneself.

  • Dec

    TAFKABO

    Most right-thinking people would condemn arson however with the recent sickening displays of sectarianism on bonfires recently is it really any wonder some people will take such actions? As for Fair_Deal, he opens a thread every time someone takes a piss against the sides of an Orange Hall then complements it with sectarian muck-raking threads (winess last weeks ‘Terrorism and the GAA’) which wouldn’t look out of place in Combat.

  • Donagh

    TAFKABO, did you miss the bit where I said the attack was “Disgraceful, shameful, reprehensible, appalling”?

  • maura

    Lib wrote: ‘The cretins responsible for this behaviour neither know nor care anything about republicanism. One doesn’t fight sectarianism by indulging in sectarian behaviour oneself. ‘

    Agreed completely. And I condemn the burning of the hall.

  • Proud

    Nice to see the spirit of tolerance alive and well in the nationalist community, judging by some of the fan-dancing over condemnations and the nature of the attack. Written into the OO’s constitution is the requirement that an orangemen be “ever abstaining from all uncharitable words, actions, or sentiments towards his Roman Catholic brethren” – unfortunately the same courtesy has not been afforded to the protestant community in this instance.

  • fair_deal

    Donagh

    And? As you said no one was hurt, life will go on etc.

    “there was no permission for them from the Council”

    Council’s don’t give permission for flags to be attached to lamposts. They are not even responsible for lamp-posts.

    “despite protests from locals”

    What locals it was the commercial centre?

    Dec

    Perhaps you didn’t see these two threads of mine that include attacks on Catholics and nationalist.
    http://www.sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/tit_for_tat_attacks_in_maghera/
    http://www.sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/crumlin_road_parades_near/

    Also it would be difficult to beat Chris on the draw for attacks on the nationalist community.

  • fair_deal

    “he opens a thread every time someone takes a piss against the sides of an Orange Hall”

    Care to provide a thread where I highlighted public urination against an Orange Hall.

    “complements it with sectarian muck-raking threads (winess last weeks ‘Terrorism and the GAA’)”

    A story from the Irish News is sectarian muckracking?!?

  • Donagh

    “What locals it was the commercial centre?”

    The people that live there, people that run businesses there, people that shop there, people that have to pass through there when going from any part of the nationalist end of Lurgan to another.

    “Council’s don’t give permission for flags to be attached to lamposts.”

    Well then tell that to the local Trevors who were caught on camera telling the locals that the Council had given permission.

    You still haven’t told us why you think this incident was so significant that it deserved it’s own thread on Slugger. What are your thoughts on it? Do you know the hall – is it used much? Why do you think it happened? What could be done to prevent it happening again? Should it be rebuilt? Etc… etc…

  • Gonzo

    Dear all,

    Mr Deal is entitled to publish what he likes here. The fact that this is the 242nd hall to be burnt since 1989 is news to me and wasn’t in the BBC story.

    It is an entirely valid post, and the reaction to it has revealed the nationalist equivalent of the ‘Fuck MickyBo’ mentality, IMHO.

  • Donagh

    “it has revealed the nationalist equivalent of the ‘Fuck MickyBo’ mentality”

    Now what is horrifying is that Gonzo here has a mentality that places the same value on the life of a murdered 15 year old and a pile of bricks belonging to a bunch sectarian/racist has-beens. Is this the ‘hierarchy of victims’ for the 21 century?

  • fair_deal

    Live, own, shop, pass through. Everyone does those things in a commerical centre . So it wasn’t one bunch of locals but two. One objecting to what they others were doing.

    “why you think this incident was so significant that it deserved it’s own thread on Slugger.”

    I already explained this in an earlier post. You already said it yourself, it is a major news story that is “on the news sites and it’s all over today’s newspapers”.

  • Donagh

    [Play the ball! – edited moderator]

  • [i]”Once again we see that the problem is not so much the attacking and burning of Orange halls as the causal acceptance of thse actions by so many people who see nothing wrong with it.”[/i]

    Hmmm…. Perhaps, Taf, you could understand why the problem with the death squads and collusion by the Army and RUC is not so much the murders of innocent civilians — mostly Catholic — as the casual acceptance of such actions by so many people who see nothing wrong with it.

    If you want to make derogatory comments, Taf, I suggest you make sure your own house is clean before you open your mouth. The Orange house is hardly clean.

  • maura

    It is a bit disappointing , for me at least, that this thread descended into a bit of whataboutery, attempts at justification, and arguments about even posting the story in the first place
    I understand the deep anger that we feel re: the Mickybo developments this week. I know as well as anyone, the feelings about the 12th and the OO. However as Lib pointed out these burnings are not about Republicanism, they are the work of twits without a political notion in their empty heads.
    We can not, as Republicans, preach about sectarianism and then fail to recognise it when it comes from our own side. Combating sectarianism is vital to any political development within our community.
    I personally favour rising above it, although I’ll admit to feeling rage in situations such as the MickeyBo instance this week. But the minute we reduce ourselves to retaliating, by burning buildings, we lose the moral high ground. We can not seriously be enraged at the burning of Catholic Churches and Schools on the one hand, and remain mute when it is done in the other direction.

  • [/i] Cleaning out the italics, — I hope!

  • Sean Fear

    Assuming that several posters here aren’t just loyalist trolls taking the p**s, it’s not hard, on reading such comments, to understand why so many Northern Irish Protestants should be alarmed at the idea of a United Ireland.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    “Once again we see that the problem is not so much the attacking and burning of Orange halls as the causal acceptance of thse actions by so many people who see nothing wrong with it.
    That Fair Deal is being attacked for even mentioning it is a sad reflection of the sectarain hatred within the Nationalist community.
    They are open about their hatred, they don’t even see it as a problem.”

    Posted by TAFKABO on Jul 15, 2006 @ 02:11 PM

    “Look, if the condemnations isn’t good enough for you, then stop gurning when it doesn’t happen, and complaining when it does.”

    Posted by TAFKABO on Jul 12, 2006 @ 06:09 PM.

    Still trying to blow hot and hold with the same breath, I see…

  • Gonzo

    Donagh said:

    Now what is horrifying is that Gonzo here has a mentality that places the same value on the life of a murdered 15 year old and a pile of bricks belonging to a bunch sectarian/racist has-beens. Is this the ‘hierarchy of victims’ for the 21 century?

    Errr… no. That’s not at all what I said, as can be seen from the words I actually used, rather than the ones you just imagined.

    There is obviously no equivalence in the acts of murder and arson. Both are crimes, but that’s as far as it goes.

    What is very similar, IMHO, is the attitudes of those doing the killing and those burning the Orange halls.

    It’s an attitude that Donagh seems comfortable with, so it’s not surprising that he might seek to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Belfast Gonzo: “What is very similar, IMHO, is the attitudes of those doing the killing and those burning the Orange halls. ”

    Gonzo, that’s a stretch. If their attitudes were truly similar, would not the hall-burners be doing something a wee bit more… potent than simple property damage?

    Likewise, I do find the hypocrisy in what Unionists seem to feel is an appropriate response to their pet idiots misbehaving (isn’t a denouncement enough?) as opposed to what they want when someone else’s idiots are nipping their heels.

  • Sean Fear

    Arson carries a potential life sentence, because it is an extremely serious crime – though obviously not as serious as murder.

    If someone burned down my house while I was out, I doubt I’d be hugely reassured by people describing it as a “wee bit of property damage”.

  • Dec

    What is very similar, IMHO, is the attitudes of those doing the killing and those burning the Orange halls.

    Utter nonsense. It’s one thing to burn an empty hall (or smash windows on a Catholic church), and its another thing entirely to murder a child for his religion (or machine gun worshippers in a country church hall). Ultimately this analysis draws no distinction between vandalism and murder.

    Fair_Deal

    A story from the Irish News is sectarian muckracking?!?

    No the spin you put upon it entitling your thread Terrorist Commeration and the GAA- was sectarian muck-raking of the lowest order and would have done Combat proud.

    Perhaps you didn’t see these two threads of mine that include attacks on Catholics and nationalist.

    i think you’ll find its called lip-service.

    Also it would be difficult to beat Chris on the draw for attacks on the nationalist community.

    Ever tried?

  • Ranier

    ‘The cretins responsible for this behaviour neither know nor care anything about republicanism. One doesn’t fight sectarianism by indulging in sectarian behaviour oneself’

    To be fair, i dont think the OO could give two hoots about the ideals of republicanism. I wont shed many tears for a building which is used to harbour sectarianism, inequality, supremacism and violence.

  • Gonzo

    Dec said:

    It’s one thing to burn an empty hall (or smash windows on a Catholic church), and its another thing entirely to murder a child for his religion (or machine gun worshippers in a country church hall).

    Errrmm… you did read the sentence before, didn’t you?!

    However, with Donagh confusing the actual murder and the post-murder ‘Fuck Mickybo’ stuff, I can understand how others might be confused.

    To be clear, I am not comparing McIlveen’s murder with anything. I never even raised it.

    I am comparing the flying of a flag which reads ‘Fuck Mickybo’ placed on top of a bonfire with buring down an Orange hall.

    I am arguing that the motivation for both is the same, and it is sectarian. Donagh is barking up the wrong tree completely, and some people seem to be blindly accepting his interpretation of what I said, which makes no sense whatsoever, and in fact looks like a wilful and pathetic attempt to obfuscate the issue.

    Unionists regard GAA halls in a similar way to how republicans regard Orange halls. For anyone to gloat over, excuse or justify the burning of either is utterly sectarian.

    End of.

  • Antifa

    Is it sectarian to take on sectarians?

    Is this not the arguement of those that condemn attacks on fascists and racists ( antifa )

    The OO is a sectarian organisation, what comes round goes around.

    How many deaths have the OO been responsible for since its inception and how many homes has its supporters driven people from?

  • Donagh

    “in fact looks like a wilful and pathetic attempt to obfuscate the issue.”

    You managed that all by yourself Gonzo.

  • Gonzo

    My, that was a witty response. Beats defending the indefensible I suppose.

  • maura

    Ok someone on here said the OO and GAA were similar types of organisations, in that they are sectarian?
    Could the person who made this claim please explain the rationale behind that thought? I can not for the life of me see the similarities.

  • Gonzo

    They’re both all-Ireland, cross-border institutions. Both could be described as tribal and largely exclusive. Both have halls acattered throughout the country. Both have a social aspect to their respective organisations.

    Will that do? :o)

  • frank

    but only one demands to march through areas were they are not welcome, due to their sectarian views & paramilitary bands and emblems.

  • fair_deal

    Dec

    Still waiting for the threads about public urination I am supposed to have put up.

    “No the spin you put upon it entitling your thread Terrorist Commeration and the GAA”

    Please note the ‘and’ I didn’t say ‘by’. A GAA supplier and players/figures were involved in the story.

    The Irish News thought the story warranted an offical response from the GAA so my spin was no different.

    “i think you’ll find its called lip-service.”

    No just correcting a false claim made by your self that I’d never covered any.

    “Ever tried?”

    I thought he would have covered the pensioner story before me.

  • TAFKABO

    Still trying to blow hot and hold with the same breath, I see…

    Posted by Dread Cthulhu on Jul 15, 2006 @ 04:48 PM

    Dread, Do you come here to debate the issues or take issue with me personaly?
    If you’re going to insist on making my every utterance a pretext for some handbagging swinging, at least do it in an email and spare everyone else the tedium of a little bitchfest between ourselves

    I welcome those who have condemned the attack, but guess what?
    Human nature being what it is, I still think all those who haven’t condenmed, or actualy offer encouragement to this type of attack still deserve commenting on. Take of your blinkers and stop looking at every thread and starting from the premise that you need to find the sectarian unionist double standards before you say anything.

  • maura

    ‘They’re both all-Ireland, cross-border institutions. Both could be described as tribal and largely exclusive. Both have halls acattered throughout the country. Both have a social aspect to their respective organisations.

    Will that do? :o) ‘

    Well, I suppose some of that is true! Is that where there similarities end or is some other more sinister similarity being hinted at?
    I don’t think the GAA can any longer be described as exclusive as that was largely taken care of last year, correct? And I have yet to see a GAA team / group attempting to batter its way up any road!
    To return to the matter of the GAA shirt/hunger strike issue ( Fairdeal’s post I think), I am not sure commemorating the hunger strikers ( or King Billy for that matter) is what is sectarian about these things, but the manner in which they are commemorated. For instance, if the well discussed GAA/Hunger strike shirt was flaunted in an area where others object to it, or someone was forced to wear it, that would be sectarianism. No?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “Dread, Do you come here to debate the issues or take issue with me personaly? ”

    If denouncements are the threshold you set for adequate response for Unionists, should not that be the same threshold for the response from Nationalists?

    I just find it interesting you want more from Nationalists than Unionism is willing to put forth under similar circumstances.

    For the record, its not personal. You’re just the one with the most convenient backtrail of posts to make the point.

  • TAFKABO

    I just find it interesting you want more from Nationalists than Unionism is willing to put forth under similar circumstances.

    A bizzare statement, care to eleborate?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    If you don’t get it by now, TAFKABO, no amount of my explaining it is going to help you. prolly achieve quite the opposite, send you back into your prosecution complex and siege mentality.

  • TAFKABO

    Seems like an excuse to me mo chara.I just called yer bluff.

  • Prince Eoghan

    To the several posters that pointed out the obvious, well done for refusing to be beguiled. To those that do not realise that it is an abnormal society that does not recognise the OO for what it is shame on you.

    Maura.

    “We can not seriously be enraged at the burning of Catholic Churches and Schools on the one hand, and remain mute when it is done in the other direction.

    Posted by maura on Jul 15, 2006 @ 03:51 PM

    This post particularly galled, do not deceive yourself that sectarian gang-huts are the equivelant of places of learning or God forbid churches. These gang-huts have been used to facilitate and project hatred for many a year. Often they have been used in the first instance for this hatred.

    I hope you take this criticism in the spirit it is given, in no way can the comparison you make be valid. Think about your proper defence of GAA halls above, those who defend this hatred seek moral equivalence at all points, none is valid. Take Gonzo’s first post for an example of this;

    “Dear all,

    Mr Deal is entitled to publish what he likes here. The fact that this is the 242nd hall to be burnt since 1989 is news to me and wasn’t in the BBC story.

    It is an entirely valid post, and the reaction to it has revealed the nationalist equivalent of the ‘Fuck MickyBo’ mentality, IMHO.

    Posted by Gonzo on Jul 15, 2006 @ 03:09 PM”

    This is as classic an example of dis-association as you will find. The mocking of a dead young man/child, compared to the damage to a hall used by an intolerant organisation. Honestly need any more be said?

  • Brian Boru

    While deploring this, the organisation should not be surprised it is so loathed in the Catholic community when it bans members from marrying Catholics and its rules contain anti-Catholic language such as the “fatal errors” of Catholicism, not to mention the ghosts of Drumcrees’ past. And they celebrate Protestant victories over Catholics. That is especially offensive but wouldn’t be so bad if they kept to areas that the local community welcomed that sort of thing. Having 1690 rammed down your throat is very provocative.

  • Brian Boru

    Having said that, I accept that Unionism is entitled to commemorate its history. However they should be less in your face about it and remove sectarian rules that prevent members marrying Catholics (why?). There are many mixed religion married couples in the South and the OO looks very anachronistic in clinging onto this relic of the 18th century.

  • maura

    Prince: ‘This post particularly galled, do not deceive yourself that sectarian gang-huts are the equivelant of places of learning or God forbid churches. These gang-huts have been used to facilitate and project hatred for many a year. Often they have been used in the first instance for this hatred. ‘

    I agree wholeheartedly Prince, but yet, I see little point in sinking to the bottom of the barrel with these people. As Republicans we must take the high ground, and condemning these attacks is the right thing to do.
    ( Sorry about the galling:-)I seriously have a problem expressing myself, but hope to improve here as time passes.)

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAKFABO: “Seems like an excuse to me mo chara.I just called yer bluff. ”

    No, Stu, I just hate repeating myself.

    But, if I must spell it out, I will…

    1. A general comment is made on a topic

    2. TAFKABO immediately personalizes comment and become confrontation

    3. Time is wasted talking TAFKABO down off the roof

    4. TAFKABO gives some lame excuse on how was he to know that it was not a personal slight.

    Likewise, you’re on this list howling that not every Catholic, Nationalist and Republican (terms you tend to get lazy and use interchangably, btw — something you get upset about when its Protestant, Unionist and Loyalist in the discussion), yet belittle the those who point out Unionism’s flaw of a similar nature.

    You are quick to say things didn’t happen, despite news stories and photographs, yet get very upset when someone doubts your veracity on a topic. You want deeds and changes from Republicans (don’t we all) but seem to be of the opinion that words are sufficient out of Unionists. You lump all of Nationalism in one pot, yet are quick to disassociate Loyalism from Unionism, despite one being the underhand for the other.

    Shall I go on?

    For the record, you’ll do well to remember, should we play poker — I never cheat and I rarely bluff.

  • Ciaran Damery

    The heading states – “242 Orange Halls burnt down and counting”. Who’s counting? Ha!

  • TAFKABO

    Dread.

    Stuff and nonsense, and more proof, if it were need, that you take these boards and my comments far too personally. If you want to email me with any examples, as opposed to simply expanding upon allegations, then feel free to do so.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Maura.

    Thank you for not taking offence, I have only been on slugger myself these past few months, in that time I have learned how to type almost as fast as my thought processes(lie). A new wind is always welcome.

    I personally believe that SF are wrong on this one, not about condeming, but about calling it a sectarian attack. No normal society would tolerate such an organisation in it’s present form, we should not either.

    Dread.

    And I thought you liked playing with TAF so much;¬)

  • missfitz

    Fair Deal
    Just wondering, is anyone keeping a list of the halls burned down, or is the information available anywhere? I would be interested in breaking it down in terms of areas, time of year and arrests. Perhaps this has been done?

  • Belfast Gonzo

    “Honestly need any more be said?”

    No, because you’re clearly of the opinion that anti-Orange violent sectarianism is excusable, while we both agree that sectarian mockery of a murder victim is not.

    There’s a word that perfectly describes this position, but Mick has censored it.

  • fair_deal

    Missfitz

    AFAIK there is a list but I don’t think the analysis you describe has been done. I’ll endeavour to check. I don’t think the number of arrests have been collated although from anecdote it wouldn’t be a particularly long list.

  • Prince Eoghan

    BG.

    Were you the gonzo who made the mickey Bo comment?

    ““Dear all,

    Mr Deal is entitled to publish what he likes here. The fact that this is the 242nd hall to be burnt since 1989 is news to me and wasn’t in the BBC story.

    It is an entirely valid post, and the reaction to it has revealed the nationalist equivalent of the ‘Fuck MickyBo’ mentality, IMHO.

    Posted by Gonzo on Jul 15, 2006 @ 03:09 PM”

    If so, then I can’t take you seriously. Also if you are comparing the mocking of a sectarian murder by sectarian motivated people, to the damaging of a sectarian gang-hut, then I really can’t take you seriously.

    How is being anti-orange sectarian? Are Prods who are anti-Orange sectarian? please explain.

  • missfitz

    FD

    Cheers
    I know it seems we’re all at it, but I am just finishing a solicited article on the OO and parades. I am endeavouring to provide as big and balanced a picture as possible, and I think that this information is part of the story.

    The fact there are no/few arrests is as telling as anything else, and worth including.

  • fair_deal

    missfitz

    I was talking to a man who knows. The clear up rate of the attacks is 2% roughly 5 out of the 242 attacks. I should get my hands on the full list very soon.

  • Miss Fitz

    Thanks FD. Will keep an eye out for it, will make a useful addition.