PIRA reject Police Ombudsman report on Jean McConville

The BBC report that a statement has been issued by the PIRA rejecting the Police Ombudsman report that Jean McConville was not an informant, claiming that they had carried out a “thorough investigation” too. In doing so they have a) reminded everyone that they’re still hanging around in the background and b) they still don’t consider the abduction and murder of Jean McConville to be a crime. When’s that deadline again?

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  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    Straight out of the David Burrows school of diplomacy, this statement pretty much beggars belief no matter how you look at it. From a SF electioneering point of view, they’re presumably angling for the psychopathic woman-hating vote (‘support the party who reckon shooting a mother of ten in the head, burying her in a bog for decades and subsequently asserting it wasn’t a crime’). Makes the BNP look cuddly.

  • Keith M

    If this wasn’t so pathetic it would be funny. If SF/IRA are not prepared to accept the results of properly conducted and inquiries conducted by respected people, then what’;s the point of further inquiries into Pat Finucane’s murder etc.?

    If SF/IRA are always going to believe their version of the truth how can anyone ever believe them on anything?

    In SF/IRA wonderland Gerry Adams was never in the IRA, armed robbery is “fundraising”, and cold blooded murder can be justified.

    he governments need to ditch the November deadline and either choose to deal with the parties who live in the real world or cut straight to “Plan B”.

  • “The IRA regrets the suffering of all the families whose loved ones were killed and buried by the IRA.”

    Orangies: Hold your fire and don’t score own goals like the Provos.
    First: the lady was or was not an informer (whether the latter esrverves the death penalty in a secret no jury court is of no concern here).
    Let’s give the PIRA the benefit of the doubt and forget the Pinnochio history. She was rearing 10 kids single handedly so what the fuck would she know about anything? She was most likely passing on low grade nformation and the Brits were most likely looking for anyone to give them information. (Look at the Crossmagel situation where they sent Indians and Pakis out to stop bullets, and the craziness of Robert Danny Boy Nairac).
    McConville was killed to scare everyone else into playing ball. The IRA should say who killed her. Let the executioner take the claim for his part in the war for Irish freedom.

    The quote above sounds like it comes from a respectable undertaker, not a group of womanizing drunkards.

    Finally, I think that photo of Jean McConville should be put up regularly on this site just to remind Gerry Adams’ constituents of the perils of trying to raise 10 kids on your own without any perks.

  • gg

    Taigs

    “(Look at the Crossmagel situation where they sent Indians and Pakis out to stop bullets, and the craziness of Robert Danny Boy Nairac).”

    You’ve mentioned that before and I have no idea what it is about. Could you elaborate?

  • P113

    Squalid. The same “thorough investigation” that managed to uncover all the other informers and spies within their ranks….indeed, one wonders if this “thorough investigation” would have involved the use of psychological torture against a woman with 10 kids.

    It is clear that the provos remain on the defensive, not least as the reality slowly dawns that they were engaged in a dirty squalid war that failed to advance theirs, or anybody elses cause one iota. This statement has probably been released to make the killers feel that little bit less guilty than they already do (oh, I forgot, they don’t feel guilt).

  • The abuse that began with murder of Jean McConville continues. There are some things which prevent her family moving on; they are all about the truth. There must be peace for the victims, the peace of knowing. Even if we are to wait until the whole generation of people, who suffered dies off, it won’t work, since the hurt and injustice of a hundred years ago can rise up to hurt again. Let them tell the truth about what they did. Give them an amnesty by all means, but let them tell the whole truth – all of it. Disgraceful announcements from people, who haven’t gone away bring no integrity when compared with what is already in the open sphere.

  • Muhammed Khalid was shot on April 22nd 1974 in Silverbridge. He was, if I recall, a cook in the barrscks at Crossmaglen. Shooting him discouraged others. Robert Nairac was a bit of a regular, going around South Armagh singing Danny Boy. That shows how desperate they were to get information.
    Jean McConville and many others are on a different but similar plain. Not doing a hierarchy of victims Adams speak. They decided to kill her. Most likely, some parochial level of nastiness was involved by the henchmen of Twomey and Adams.

    So here is are some simple question for the Provos many years after. What specific information did she pass on? Location of arms dumps (how many?); safe houses (how many?); ASU members (how many?). What precisely did she confess to? Did they keep a copy of the tape? Was she sexually abused? Where was she shot? How long was she held before being shot? Was she offered a priest or other clergyman? If not, why not?

  • TAFKABO

    Is it merely coincidence that the leading member of Sinn Fein often credited with writing IRA statements, is also someone who is alleged to have been in a leadership position in West Belfast at the time of this killing?

    Could simple personal guilt or denial about his role in the death of an innocent woman have played a part in this curious statement from the IRA?

  • lurker

    The speed of this reaction from the IRA suggests that, despite the gruesome reminder, it is hugely important to them to defend their killing of Jean McConville.

    Why?

    When you consider all the barbarity that has passed and been more or less forgotten about, why not let this slide into history unmarked? Why not shrug it off on a ‘less said the better’ principle.

    A couple of guesses: Those who killed her on orders don’t feel good about it but need reassured that it was ‘legitimate’. A lot of people were involved, including women.

    The IRA leader in the area who gave the order to kill her has a reputation to defend, even still.

  • Lurker

    Great minds thinking alike, Taf.

    Shows he can get rattled, doesn’t it.

  • Andrew Brennan

    [QUOTE] IRA insists victim was informer [UNQUOTE]

    Well they would say that wouldn’t they!

  • Kathy_C

    posted by Kathy C

    Hi all,

    What I find amazing…how when the sf informer/spy donaldson was outed…Gerry Adams’ statement said Adams had advised donaldson to see a lawyer….I guess there are different rules according to who one’s friends are…Who knows what if any information Mrs. McConville e gave to the brits…but I have to think…what information donaldson gave to the brits and adams suggested he get a lawyer? So, I would gather Mrs. McConville wasn’t a friend of adam’s cause if she was…maybe he would have suggested she get a lawyer as well cause an informer is an informer and McConville got death…donaldson got free legal advise…interesting

  • Turbo Paul

    The Police Ombudsman, Mrs Nuala O’Loan, has said her investigators have found no evidence to indicate that west Belfast woman Jean McConville, who was killed by terrorists in 1972, had ever passed information to the security service.

    Do we assume from this that those spooks within the security services gave real access to all documents relating to agents?

    What if Mrs O’Loan was only given certain documents and infomation that could lead one to believe Jean McConville was not an agent?

    So can Mrs O’Loan confirm that Scap and Denis Donaldson were agents??

    Oh, and if Mrs O’Loan has real access to agents files then has Martin McGuinness ever been a Brit agent?

    So, the Brits claim Jean McConville never was an agent, Martin McGuinness was never an agent,does not comment on others accused of being agents.

    PIRA claim Jean McConville was an agent and Martin McGuinness, the jury is still out!!!!

    For an observer this all seems rather duplicitous and endemic of the “Dirty War”

  • Do the Provos claim Scap as a tout?
    What did Jean McConville reveal that deserved so brutal a treatment? Simple question deserves a simple answer. Frankly, the more I think about htis, the more I feel she just pissed off some local womanizing, beer swilling IRA boss. Why not kneecap her (= mutilate) or tar and feather? What precisely was she touting about? If the IRA know she was a tout, then they know what she touted.

    Let’s not forget the other Disappeared either. Once Gerry clears up Jean, he can go on to Colomba McVeigh, aged 17 and super Brit spy a la James Bond. What great secrets was that baby privy to that deserved a trip with Scap up the Old Bog Road?

  • Irish in America

    the whole story is horrible.

    BUT-are we supposed to believe an “investigation” by a government that sponsored death squads, and who’s “police” and military force were supporting said death squads? Blame the IRA for killing the Ms. McConville, but wake the F up from your hibernation. How many did Scap/Adair/UVF/etc. kill for the Brits!?!?! Shed tears for all.

    Taigs is probably right-i’d guess she was supplying low grade info (things she noticed in the neighborhood or whatever) and she got killed to send a (horrible) message. Like when you hear an 85 year old woman getting taken off a plane and frisked-“well, if they’re paying attention to this 85 year old woman, they’re cleary watching everyone!)

  • Shore Road Resident

    Are we supposed to believe an ‘investigation’ by the organisation that killed her instead?

    You are obviously a terrorist supporter and should be deported from the United States immediately. I’ll get Peter King on the case at once.

  • Irish in America

    Not a supporter, but not someone who believes in either of the “investigations”. Both self serving.

  • Turbo Paul

    Given the terrible track record of all sides, the honest truth about these things will never be known for sure because the first casualty of war is the truth.

    Can anyone be really sure one side or the other is capable of being truthful?

    Both sides have cried wolf so many times those outside, and most inside of Ireland are left disbelieving everything, even the truth when it appears.

    The timescale for the truth to come out will be long after the peace process has been settled and there is some kind of truth and reconcilition council.

    At the pace we are going that time seems far in the distant future.

  • Irish in America

    I completely agree TP

  • Nevin

    Keith M, here is an example of the craftsmanship of Gerry ‘I am not a violent person’ Adams as he floats high as a kite o’er the hills of Donegal.

  • Ex UUP

    bUT-are we supposed to believe an “investigation” by a government that sponsored death squads, and who’s “police” and military force were supporting said death squads?

    what death squads? stop being a provo apologist, you murdreing scumbag supporter

  • Pete Baker

    Ex-UUP

    Play the ball!

  • Ex UUP

    [See commenting policy – edited moderator]

  • Ex UUP

    here we are discussing the murder of an inocent woman by the official catholic death squad, the IRA, and these prats emerge with their Mopery and shite

  • Turbo Paul

    Collusion between the Brit Security services and Loyalist paramilitaries that led to many cold blooded murders is well documented.

    As are the atrocities commited by PIRA, including cold blooded murder of many.

  • Ex UUP

    Collusion between the Brit Security services and Loyalist paramilitaries that led to many cold blooded murders is well documented. –
    oh yeah , how many then?
    funny you never mention the official catholic death sqaud that opearted with the consent of the majority of catholics, the ira

  • Turbo Paul

    An important part of anger management is to try and collate an atrocity of one side against one from the other.

    Murder is murder, it is not about how gruesome one is against the other.

    It is widely acknowledged that there have been terrible murders comitted by both sides in the Irish conflict.

    To just try and take one point of view without acknowledging one’s own past atrocites weakens one’s argument and lends one open to ridicule.

  • Pete Baker

    “An important part of anger management is to try and collate an atrocity of one side against one from the other.”

    No, TP, that would be a definition of whataboutery.

  • Turbo Paul

    Its a terrible thung to be ting tied, when I seem to get my werds muxt up.

    Just trying to debate, offering a view!!!

  • Rory

    Good editorial advice there, Pete, but I think we had all gotten over Turbo Paul’s drafting error and had taken the meat of his argument.

    Turbo Paul and Irish in America each injected some clear, level-headed thinking into this discussion and we would do well, I consider, to take their comments to heart while thinking of it ourselves.

    Ex-UUP added some interesting and colourful comments but I am not so certain that they much advanced the debate.

    But the more debate on this the better. Some issues, for the sake of prudence, are best left buried at this delicate point in the North’s history but some simply cry out to be uncovered as an aid to the very process of peace itself. This matter, of the abduction and death of Mrs McConville and the secret burial of her mortal remains, is now clearly one such issue and I believe that the brinkmanship of realpolitik should not occlude that need.

    The IRA are not the only party to the horror of this tragic incident. But those who view them with goodwill, as I do, yet must urge them to throw aside the risks of British nefariousness and duplicity and come first into the clear light of day on this matter.

  • Pete Baker

    “The IRA are not the only party to the horror of this tragic incident.”

    Actually, Rory, they were, and it wasn’t “a tragic incident”, it was an abduction and murder.. the meat, as you put it, of TP’s and Irish in America’s argument was pure whataboutery.

    You may wish those responsible goodwill, but many want them, and many others on all sides, to face the consequences of their actions.

    Perhaps, if I may adapt your comments from another thread, it’s a pity Fra McCann wasn’t there to provide aid and advice?

  • Turbo Paul

    You may wish those responsible goodwill, but many want them, and many others on all sides, to face the consequences of their actions.

    Pete, do you think the best venue for the families who have lost loved ones to achieve real closure is a truth and reconciliation council, based on the South African model????

    How else can closure be achieved without any comments offered being used as a political football????

    some who are calling for the PIRA to come clean only do this so as to be able to use it to beat the Republican movement

    I really hope all unanswered questions about all those murdered can be realised but the way these things are being used at the moment seems to be as a further barrier to achieving a deal by November.

    If those who took part in, ordered, had knowledge of or susequent knowledge of any atrocity were to be forced to face the consequence of their actions, the courts and jails would be bulging at the seams, full of current and past leaders of Brit govt,Irish govt, Unionists, Republicans, Loyalists, members of the military, security sevices, the list is endless.

    Perhaps if the historical atrocities were to be seperated from current negociations then there would be more chance of achieving closure for the families, or are historical atrocities being used by both sides for political gain??

  • Irish in America

    Thank you Ex UUP-you’ve proven my point exactly. (“this is red paint on my hands, I swear, they’re the real bad guys!!”)

  • Nic

    considering the McConville story is well known, the Ombudsman’s report is not a great shock and barely newsworthy. Certainly not as sensational as the IRA statement and McGuinness subsequent media interviews . So what’s the point.
    Well, it should be enough to provoke the DUP into delaring “never never never” and then Adams will roll out and tut tut and cod Hain into doing something stupid (again) is one explanation..

    Another is simple vanity on Adam’s part coupled with the threats to his authority from the outings of scap and particularly Donaldson.
    As the IRA man named by various commentators (in particular Ed Moloney) responsible for her murder, it’s in his interest to play this one aggressively. Sending McGuinness out to bat for him when things get sticky is standard MO from the bearded one. It’s no wonder he gets on so well with Ahern….

  • Pete Baker

    “Pete, do you think the best venue for the families who have lost loved ones to achieve real closure is a truth and reconciliation council, based on the South African model????”

    Ah, the old recourse to South Africa gambit once the whataboutery is uncovered.

    Seriously, TP, South Africa is in no way comparable – the political divide that followed the end of apartheid was not the almost even split seen here.. that’s what enabled the complete reversal in political life there. And the Truth and Reconciliation process that took place there is no role model for anywhere else in the world.

    Personally, I’m not concenred with the wider process – should it exist at all. Deal with the individual cases as they present themselves and we’ll gradually work our way through it.

    Regardless of the political implications.

    To do otherwise is to leave us, as citizens, at the mercy of the political parties – and I don’t believe that’s a good idea for anyone.

  • Moochin photoman

    I was reminded of a comment made by a former member of the RA when getting slagged off in the pub……

    ” Ach Gee, I have a real soft spot for you….its a bog in S Armagh”

    It also makes me think that yes they havent gone away, nor will the secrets and the sooner the truth will out, the better, the assertion that she was a tout is self serving and indicative of the nature of the beast.Undoubtably someone is being protected and vindicated with this statement.

  • Ex UUP: You should watch it there, claiming a majority of Catholics supported the IRA. There would be different circles of support, the hard core, the useful idiots, etc. Just as in the Unionist areas, few would go up against a group with the capacity to kill and maim and get away with it. That was precisely the problem with the McCartney killing in the Short Strand. Why are you ex UUP or should I ask?

    The IRA talk about moving on. But some people cannot in conscience move on until the bill is paid. The family of Jean McConville is one (and the bill is big). The family of Andy Kearney is another. Let the chickens come home to roost.

    The IRA argued they fought a war and, like all other wars there was collateral damage and friendly fire. Fair enough. But there were also war crimes. Let those who committed them face the music just as happened in the wars of the Yugosalv succession. I nominate Big Gerry and Big Ian to begin with. Do the crime, do the time.

    And moderators, please repost that McConville family picture at regular intervals until all the bodies are returned. A family destroyed, for what?

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    In all fairness to the IRA…isn’t it a bit ludicrous for the police ombudsman to come out and say that Mrs. McConville was not an informer. Who did she interview…? The IRA members are sworn to secrecy and wouldn’t or shouldn’t have talked with her…and we know the british gov’t would lie about any information to have the IRA look bad….unless of course, the police ombudsman is basing her report on an informer within the IRA in which case…she should say who it is….and what her information is…..otherwise…it really is ludicrous for a report to come out from an outsider about what happened within a small inner circle. I used to think the police obudsman did a fair job in difficult circumstances…but to come out and say that Mrs. Mconville was not an informant when the obudsman needs information within the IRA to make that statement…and they are saying something different…damages the police obudsman’s credibility.

  • Loyalist

    Haven’t the McConville family suffered enough without the Provos adding to their misery in this cold-hearted and brutal fashion. This latest statement raises other interesting questions regarding SF/IRA’s attitude towards truth – if the Bloddy Sunday Inquiry comes back with a version of events that doesn’t fit in with their twisted narrative will they reject that also?

    Nual O’Loan has shown (to her credit) that she is entirely even-handed and has no qualms whatsoever about offending the sensitivities of the PSNI/HMG why should this case be any different? Oh aye, because she has dared question the official Provo history of events here and prove what a lying shower of bastards the IRA really are.

  • Kathy: Isn’t it a bit ludicrous for the IRA to clam up for 30 or so years and then claim she was a tout? Why don’t they produce any evidence to justify killing her, dumping her body like she was Jimmy Hoffa and lying they had nothing to do with it? The main suspect is in a lose lose situation here unless he can give good reason why he ordered her killed and her body dumped like a dog.

    Ship Gerry off to the Hague where he can don the felon’s cap, the noblest crown an Irish head can wear.

  • dodrade

    P O’Neill would have been best advised to keep his mouth shut on his occasion. Or would it be too much for the IRA to bear to let people think it ever shot someone that didn’t deserve it?