Flag Watch…

THE SDLP has launched Flag Watch, a campaign “against sectarian flags and intimidation”. It’s a timely announcement, with several rows already well under way this summer.

  • Dualta

    I hope they mean to have Tricolours removed as well. If not then they would be guilty of sectarianism.

    Judging by the sample of flags on their website they seem to be focusing on flags from the Unionist community.

  • Stephen Copeland

    Dualta,

    You should have clicked on to their response form. It specifically mentions Tricolours as one of the flags that people could report.

    It does not, however, mention the union jack – a sstrange omission, I thought.

  • harpo

    THE SDLP has launched Flag Watch, a campaign “against sectarian flags and intimidation”.

    Gonzo:

    But it’s much more than that. Here’s what they say they are on about:

    ‘National, sectarian or paramilitary displays are often used to stake out territory and send a message to those from the other community that they are not welcome. They are often offensive in appearance and the cause of fear in practice in whatever form they take – be it bunting, flags, murals or symbols.’

    and

    ‘Separately, we believe that the Government should lead by example by agreeing to repeal the current legislation requiring the display of the Union Flag over government buildings’

    So the campiagn is about much more than just sectarian flags – it also covers bunting and the Union Flag. The bunting part essentially means that certain combinations of colours are to be banned, no matter what they are displayed on. If red, white and blue bunting is to be banned simply because of the colour combination involved, then that must also apply to posters and anything else that features the same combinations of colours.

    As a result we will end up at the level of people complaining about anything that features certain colour combinations. Do they still sell those red, white and blue ice lollys in NI? They’d have to go in case some nationalist kid thought a unionist kid was trying to stick it to him by eating such a lolly.

    ‘It’s a timely announcement’

    How is it a timely announcement? Aren’t they about 40 years behind the appearance of the issue? It was a big issue as far back as September 1964.

  • seabhac siulach

    “You should have clicked on to their response form. It specifically mentions Tricolours as one of the flags that people could report.

    It does not, however, mention the union jack – a sstrange omission, I thought. ”

    That would be the SDLP for you…but then again in their defence the form does say:
    “What kind of flags are they? (e.g. paramilitary flags, “Ulster” flags, tricolours etc.)”

    So, it is presumably included in the ‘etc.’ (we hope).

    While the union jack flag is the flag of the UK, its use in the six counties is typically one of mapping out ‘tribal’ boundaries, so I think it should also be on the list…except in cases where it is clearly part of an Orange arch or other formal structures…

  • harpo

    ‘It does not, however, mention the union jack – a sstrange omission, I thought.’

    Stephen:

    The Union Flag is mentioned in their policy document though. And the policy document doesn’t just refer to sectarian flags, it also mentions national flags. That would include both the ROI tricolour flag and the Union Flag.

  • Dualta

    Thanks for that Stephen,

    Fair play to the SDLP. I hope that they really will make an issue of tricolours flying on lamposts.

    Even in a thoroughly homogenous residential area, Nationalist or Unionist, many people from the other community may have to go there for many different reasons, a postman, housing exec worker, health visitor etc.

    No-one should be made to feel intimidated by public displays of flags and emblems. There are no exclusively Nationalist or Unionist areas in NI.

  • harpo

    This campaign is all a bit half-assed, but then that’s the SDLP for you.

    The guys in the photo are holding a poster saying ‘ban all sectarian flags’ but then as you read deeper into the material – their policy document for example – it’s clear that they mean much more than sectarian flags, and that it includes national flags and even bunting too. Basically anything that causes someone else offence. And they don’t expect a total ban since they explain that it’s hard to do anything about stuff on private property.

    And then to reinforce their message they are standing somewhere so that there is a building in the background of the photo. A building on which there are several flags flying. One of the flags is clearly the Union Flag, so presumably the others are of a pro-union nature too. The point is presumably that these ‘sectarian flags’ all have to go. Even though one of them would be the national flag.

    So despite the simplicity of the overall campaign message, it’s clear it isn’t just about sectarian flags at all.

    Of course if they really meant it, they wouldn’t just be engaged in photo ops and asking for people to complain about flags – they’d be out taking these offensive flags down. But no, it seems like another whine fest where ‘the authorities’ are expected to do something about it.

    And people wonder why public expenditure is so high in NI. It’s fruitless half-assed exercises like this that lead to it.

  • Nevin

    Must check it out but I understood public money is perhaps being used to fund the flying of ‘national’ flags in preference to paramilitary ones. Perhaps it’s part of a weaning-off process?

  • Dualta: Would you like Catholic churches and GAA halls banned too so Unionists travelling in Catholic areas would feel safer? How about going back to keeping Taigs within certain boundaries? Would that make you and yours feel better?

  • Peter Pan

    How pathetic. This is the nationalist aspiring (United Ireland) SDLP. The so called utopia of a land which embraces the Green and the Orange in their National flag. Nationalists have no interest in the Orange tradition other than to eliminate it. I notice how they’re stand outside private property with state and cultural flags and denounce public property with paramilitary flags. Another things “Outside churches” The COI and others themselves in East Belfast themselves were flying the union flag on the 1st of July. They sectarian too?

    One thing we have to learn in this life is that we can’t be all things to all men. One man’s belief is another’s offence. One man’s religion is another’s offence. It’s human behaviour, live with it.

    The SDLP are now as bad as the shinners. I used to have an ounce of respect for them, even though I didn’t agree with them. Not any more.

    You can have a concern for public property and criminality yes, but it’s so obvious it’s and anti unionist community agenda – as usual.

  • Reader

    Dualta: Fair play to the SDLP. I hope that they really will make an issue of tricolours flying on lamposts.
    Or above GAA matches? Or what about the Red ensign flying over some yacht clubs? Or NI flags at Ulster Rugby matches? Is there a bye for Dissident Republicans carrying the 9 county Ulster flag?
    Someone suggested the new policy was half-assed. I think the SDLP will come to agree.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    The Irish flag incorporates the protestants ergo the orange. The Union Jack lays claim to Ireland…there is a big difference in the two national flags…Also, the Union Jack has the queen as head of state…a queen who by law can not be a Catholic…Yes, a big difference indeed.
    By law a protestant can be the head of state of Ireland…but by law a Catholic can not be head of state of england/uk….yes, the flags that represent such laws…speaks volumes about the people…The Irish is inclusive…the union jack…is conquest orientated and head of state exclusive of just one relgion….Catholic. Good to see the sdlp doing this….they understand the flag issue.

  • “The Irish flag incorporates the protestants ergo the orange. The Union Jack lays claim to Ireland”

    The Irish flag lays claim to the protestants, ergo the orange. The Union Jack incorporates (Northern) Ireland.

    Does that make the stupidity of your comment any clearer?

  • Peter Pan

    Oh dear. Kathy_C sounds like an American

    1) The UK is completely religously mixed, the Irish state has managed to cleanse it self of any protestant population (1/4 million), to become a Catholic state with the Catholic church having been written special status (Contradicting the treaty it signed) in to the constitution.

    2) National identity isn’t religously exlcusive.

    3) The British crown is apolitical, the government runs the country and is elected by the people. The Crown was removed from this hundreds of years ago. Plus who cares.

  • pith

    It’s Quiztime again.

    Who once said in every speech, TV interview and probably during the act, “You can’t ate a fleg.”? (Punctuation alert!)!

    Which is a pity because it would have been a good smartarse answer to that other thread on what to do with England flags.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi all,

    Peter Pan, The british crown…by law…british law can not have as the monarch a Catholic…it is the law….doesn’t matter how mixed the uk is…the queen or king by law CAN NOT be a Catholic.
    Beano, the union jack has the cross of St. Patrick and was put in the flag for having Ireland part of the so-called united kingdom. Now, Ireland hasn’t been part of the uk for years and ergo…the cross claiming it…should go.

    What I find fascinating is how so many in the north of Ireland defend the union jack even though the English (as especially seen in the world cup and on the BBC world news international verision) incorporate the cross of St. George solely at the expense of the union jack. Also, in Scottland…even on June 21 of this year http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=906572006&format=print ran a story about changing the union flag to retaore the order and not allow the St. George’s Cross of England dominate the union jack… Scotland wants the cross of St. Andrew to be on the top…

    to paraphrase Bob Dylan…these times and that union jack…they are a changing….

  • Oh my god of all the bullshit I’ve heard here in the past couple of months. Can we ban Americans from commenting or something?

    I suppose it’s my own fault I can’t help being riled by crass stupidity. I can’t believe I’m stooping to this, but here goes:

    “the English (as especially seen in the world cup and on the BBC world news international verision) incorporate the cross of St. George solely at the expense of the union jack.”

    It was f**king England playing in the world cup, not the UK! Why shouldn’t they fly their own flag? If Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland had qualified you’d have seen that country’s respective flag there instead – because that’s how football is organised in the UK.

    “Ireland hasn’t been part of the uk for years and ergo…the cross claiming it…should go”
    Aside from your blatant ignorance of the fact that not all of Ireland left the UK, if the Cross of St Patrick was removed from the flag, I’m sure people of a certain political persuasion (I might suggest bitter republicans, but I’m sure you wouldn’t know any) wouldn’t claim it to be “proof” that the rest of Britain don’t really want us or anything.

  • pith

    Kathy_C

    “to paraphrase Bob Dylan…these times and that union jack…they are a changing….”

    Wow. That’s incredible. When did he say that?

  • Sectarian flag flying has always had the prospect to create a threat to harmonious community relationships. Government moves to build a joint future by restoring a – Hain type Assembly – by 24th November will amount to zilch except the Government purge use of sectarian flags.

    This year like last year and the one before that; the country is growing more and more divided, communities are drifting away from each other and becoming even more segregated. That’s alarming in itself and stores up danger for the future. The single identity decorations? Are unashamedly intimidators and intended to mark out territory.

  • Kathyk

    I agree with Kathy,Uninoists don’t support St Patrick or St Patrick’s day and claim not to be Irish,therefore I think as a courtesy to the Irish people the monarchy should remove the St Patricks saltire and the Irish harp from the coat of arms…who are they trying to kid…unionists? 4.75mm of the 5.6mm people on the Ireland would agree I’m sure.

  • Carson’s Cat

    So, in essence the SDLP policy is enforced neutrality where no-one displays anything which in any way could offend anyone else.

    They mention flags, they mention bunting etc, etc etc. Where exactly does it end? I really couldnt be arsed reading their ‘policy’ document, but does it include GAA flags and bunting displayed which can offend minority unionist communities in places like Tyrone?

    If it does include everything then I’m honestly not sure whether to be pleased or annoyed. Whatever happened to the concept of mutual respect and tolerance for each other? Has that been ditched in favour of some petty list where we email the SDLP to tell them that my neighbour might be flying a fleg from their own feckin house!!!

    Half arsed doesnt quite sum this up – but then this is the SDLP. No mention of possible accomodation and locally arranged protocols for the flying of flags. No, lets just ban everything – maybe we should place everyone under house arrest for a couple of months of the year in case they happen to offend someone.

    Mark Durkan offends me because he cant answer a bl**dy question with one sentence. Can I report him and have Danny O’Connor come round to deal with him?

    What I have learnt though is that the whiff of desperation is much stronger than that of sectarianism.

  • caulfield

    Flags, stamps, colours – you name it we can argue about it. If there was an Olympic event for Pointless Arguing the Irish would be hot favourites every time.

  • pith

    How dare you! If it was an Olympic event we would be in the GB & NI team. Fight ye.

  • Carson’s Cat

    kathyk
    “I agree with Kathy,Uninoists don’t support St Patrick or St Patrick’s day

    And where exactly did you come by that piece of mis-information? Please at least attempt to use something factual or make it clear that your posts are for comedy purposes only.

  • Aislingeach

    Beano: “Oh my god of all the bullshit I’ve heard here in the past couple of months. Can we ban Americans from commenting or something?”

    Can you please not bash Americans? You’ll just bring back the crew from the other day’s Gerry Anderson thread! Oy…

    The tricolor was meant to be inclusive, but so was the UK flag; good intentions granted to all, including the SDLP for trying (and we know what path is lined with good intentions). There has to be some rachetting down of intimidation/ offence-giving AND -taking; any better suggestions, anyone? Besides telling others to ‘get over it’?
    And btw, caulfield–I’ve heard it said that where there are three Irish, there are four opinions. And six arguments.

  • michael

    How dare you! If it was an Olympic event we would be in the GB & NI team. Fight ye

    LMAO!!!!

  • The People’s Front of Judea

    Like the SDLP itself this proposal, while muddled and half-arsed, has it’s heart in the right place. The ‘whatever next’ responses that forsee some sort of flag police zooming round to remove any trace of partisan colours at the behest of Mark Durkan are clearly diningenuous at best.

    Picturesque villages in N.Antrim where I grew up have long been spoiled by local fukwits pissing up the nearest lamppost.

    FFS, could we not just agree that a few less flags about the place might be a good idea.

  • busy bee

    Fuck im gonna be busy around my home town of newry/camlough, better get my digital camera out, there is mountains of intimidating republican shite around that town, it will be intersesting to see what happens, i bet the Sinn Fein Controlled newry an Mourne council will either ignore the SDLP or send the lads round. I will keep you posted on developments, but dont expect too much.

  • Kathy_D

    Kathy_C

    Please keep posting here, ui really do enjoy a good laugh, St patrick was from welsh speaking area of Scotland, in the UK, and later moved to wales. so kathy what you say the irish give st patrick back to the welsh/scottish ?

    http://www.britannia.com/celtic/wales/facts/facts2.html

    He was ABDUCTED by the paddys (irish) and taken to oirland !!!!

    so kathy do you think the irish should not fly the scottish flag on st patricks day ?

  • English

    I might be a bit thick or something, but can someone tell me why people feel the need to hang the Union Jack from a lampost. As an Englishman living here, this is very foreign and alien behaviour. Putting up flags does not make you British! You are all Irish because you are born on the island of Ireland. My children are born on the island of Ireland and therefore they are Irish, what is the problem. Loyalists are truely weird to a foreigner such as me!

  • The observer

    “I might be a bit thick or something”

    yes you are

    [see comenting policy – edited Moderator]

  • The People’s Front of Judea

    English:
    “As an Englishman living here, this is very foreign and alien behaviour. Putting up flags does not make you British!”

    Yeah, as a guy from Antrim living in Manchester that’s the same view I have.

    The observer:
    “FUCK OFF back to england”
    Wind your neck in.
    By that logic I’d have to go back and live with pricks like you.

  • pole

    Flag Watch !!

    Better ask Michael Boyd(the 6 county football team ‘community relations patsy’) why his football teams flags are being put up with the flags of the uvf & uda all over the place.

    Perhaps the big wage is not as attractive as being the ‘token taig’ within a loyalist paramilitary supporting fan base.

  • troy

    I see the sectarian sewer rats in Annadale have a uda banner erected at the entrance to the area.

    The place has been a rubbish tip for the last few months with all sorts of household rubbish being dumped for their cultural evening on the 11th night.

    Pest control should be informed.

  • Carson’s Cat

    People’s Front of Judea
    “FFS, could we not just agree that a few less flags about the place might be a good idea.”

    Of course that’s a good idea – however that patently isn’t what the SDLP are proposing. They want the display of what are supposedly percieved as ‘sectarian’ flags banned ffs. Now, given that everything here can probably be percieved as sectarian in essence the SDLP dont want less flag flying, they want no flag flying. They want enforced neutrality.

    You rightly point out the absurd nature of this proposal and the fact that it is completely unworkable – yet you claim to support them.

    Strange too that the SDLP move to rid us of flags from both ‘sides’ supposedly, is conveniently launched in the week before the 12th July. Coincidence? I doubt it. I doubt they’d have taken their campain to Carrickmore when the place was festooned with GAA flags / Tricolours to launch the proposal. So what are we supposed to think about the proposal in light of that.

    A small child could see that this is utter b*****ks and wouldnt work – no wonder Alisdair McDonnell is in the picture giving it the enthusiastic thumbs up then. What exactly is reporting your Protestant neighbour who happens to be flying a Union Flag to your local SDLP Councillor going to achieve? If they had restricted it to flags on lampposts then they might actually have a point – but they want everything reported. If they’d asked for where flags are left flying until they are untidy rags then they might have a point.

    But that wont do ‘boul Alisdair and co – they would prefer to launch some ineffective sh*te in a pathetic attempt to make it look like they have a clue.

  • The People’s Front of Judea

    CC
    C’mon, I don’t support “them”(I thought I gave the SDLP enough of a denigration – I think I just made up a word!), just the idea behind the proposal.

    “Strange too that the SDLP move to rid us of flags from both ‘sides’ supposedly, is conveniently launched in the week before the 12th July.”

    Again, c’mon.
    I was home last week and the place was a state. Flags are more of an issue at this time than any other.

    My views on gaa flags differ from yours but I’d happily sacrifice them to see all flags removed in north Antrim for, say, 5 years.

    Let’s see if we can survive without them.

  • Union Jackie

    SDLP site: “…The demand has come from East Derry SDLP Assembly Member John Dallat who said…”

    So intolerant they can even bring themselves to name the parliamentary constituency he was constitutionally elected in. I think it’s East Londonderry. Who’s being sectrian now?

    Chairman
    Muppet Watch
    http://www.muppetwatch.co.uk/sdlp

  • Carson’s Cat

    Peoples Front
    “Let’s see if we can survive without them.

    How about trying to come to a point where we can live together and respect symbols etc etc – or have the SDLP given up on actually trying to have a bit of mutual tolerance and instead prefer the ‘fleg polis’ approach?

    I probably do take a different approach from you on GAA flags, but I dont want them outlawed, or necessarily an outright ban on flying of them. Just coming to a point where they can be flown for a period of time and taken down. That goes for Union Flags (on lampposts) and the others.

    If the SDLP actually wanted to have a constructive debate then they could possibly put forward proposals which would help in the issue of flag flying. The fact is that by jumping up and down and making a big fuss about a particular flag being flown or where/numbers etc you probably guarantee that more will be flown next time – or maybe that’s what they want.

    Alisdair McDonnell will not succeed in having one loyalist flag removed through this bag of sh*te that they have launched – and very possibly it could have the opposite effect. Who wins in that event?

  • Dualta

    Taigs said:

    [i]Dualta: Would you like Catholic churches and GAA halls banned too so Unionists travelling in Catholic areas would feel safer? How about going back to keeping Taigs within certain boundaries? Would that make you and yours feel better?[/i]

    Reductio ad absurdum lacks reasonable clout Taigs. You cannot rightly compare pandering to sectarianism and engaging in it.

  • If you are so don on Irleand’s biggest sporting and cultural body (GAA) and religion (Catholicism) where do you want to draw the line? How far back into the oppression of those two groups do you want to go? This is where your comments lead to. If you go into a Catholic parish, it is to be expected that they will be proud of their parish GAA team in the same way the English are justifiably proud of their soccer team. In England, teams like Portsmouth/Southampton etc have near fanatical (in hte best sense of the word) loyalty. The GAA is simply an Irish version of it. The fact that you are so death against a major sport and a major rleigion speaks volumes about the root of the one way sectarianism that has plagued the six counties since it was undemocratically partitioned from its natural hinterland to satisfy a gang of sectarian, bigoted thugs.

  • Dualta

    Taigs,

    [i]If you are so don on Irleand’s biggest sporting and cultural body (GAA) and religion (Catholicism) where do you want to draw the line?[/i]

    Where is the evidence in anything that I have ever written on Slugger, never mind this thread, that I am down on either of these bodies? I simply am not.

    To spell out my previous post which you seemingly did not understand, if someone was to take offence at a place of worship or a sporting facility basically because they consider them to be of ‘the other side’ then they are guilty of sectarianism and should not be pandered to. We seem to agree on this point, to some degree.

    Their offence is their own fault. They need to re-evaluate their own ideas.

    If, however, they take offence at a flag or emblem displayed in such a way as to demarcate territory and/or to express a sectarian viewpoint then their offence is justified.

    [i]This is where your comments lead to.[/i]

    In what way? Your argument is based on the false premise that I am down on the GAA and Catholic Church. Everything that follows, therefore, falls flat on its face.

  • Donegal-John

    The Union Jack contains the cross of st patrick, the cross of st george and the cross of st andrew which makes it a third irish.

    The irish tricolour is green white and orange, however most people refer to the irish tricolour as being green white and gold.

    I refer to the irish tricolour as being lime white and orange.

    The Union Jack will be flying in Donegal at various locations as part of the 12th celebrations.

  • Kathy_C

    posted by Kathy C

    Hi all, here’s an interesting web site-

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4895076.stm

    It is from the bbc on april 10-06. It states,’

    “the union jack as we know it today dates back to 1801, when Ireland joined great britain in a single kingdom. But the original flag, which was set out by royal proclamation on 12 April 1606, was subtly different lacking the diagonal red lines-the so-called St. Patrick’s cross.”

    there was NO northern Ireland in 1801. The cross of St. Patrick (doesn’t matter where he was born…he is considered the saint of Ireland) was added in 1801 ….Like I’ve been saying…there is a Republic of Ireland now and northern Ireland –IS NOT IRELAND– If the brits and the unionist in northern Ireland want to be part of the union jack…then get your own symbol but you have no legal international right to the Cross of St. Patrick because Ireland is NO LONGER part of great britain…Ireland is NO LONGER part of the united kingdom.

  • me

    Will we see the sdlp taking the first steps in this new campaign “against sectarian flags and intimidation” To remove all the hunger strikers pictures from our streets and other ira flags and pictures. I think not this is a one sided affair on the sdlp are as sectarian as sf/ira.

    it makes me sick to see that they have launched a website using an orange hall as there main picture.

  • frank

    “it makes me sick to see that they have launched a website using an orange hall as there main picture.”

    Perhaps they should have used the picture of convicted Shankill Butcher and orangeman, Eddie McIlwiane carrying his lodge’s banner which commemorates fellow ‘mass murderer’ Bobby ‘Basher’ Bates & uvf sectarian killer Brian Robinson.

  • harpo

    ‘There has to be some rachetting down of intimidation/ offence-giving AND -taking’

    Aislingeach:

    ‘Has to be’?

    Why’s that then? Who says that there ‘has to be’ a reduction in this activity?

    From what I can see many people enjoy engaging in this activity.

    The genuinely peaceful folks may believe that something has to be done about this, but as I see it there are plenty of people who enjoy engaging in such activity. So long as there isn’t a UI, one lot are going to be engaged in the whole TAL thing, and the other lot are going to be engaged in the no surrender thing. With all the symbolism that goes with it. Green, white and orange on one side, and red, white and blue on the other.

  • harpo

    ‘You are all Irish because you are born on the island of Ireland.’

    English

    I’d agree with your comment that you are thick. No maybe about it.

    I was born in NI, and that makes me British, Northern Ireland being in the UK.

    Did you know that Northern Ireland is part of the UK? Did you know that being born in the UK meant that I was born a British citizen.

    Sory to have to say it, but it’s this shallow nonsense from some English people – where they get to tell the rest of us in the UK what we supposedly are and what we aren’t – that leads to many English people not being well respected when it comes to knowledge of their own country.

    In many ways many English people are like many Americans – they have little knowledge of anything outside their immediate area, and rely instead of myths that get passed around as supposed knowledge. Like in this case where anyone who is born on the island of Ireland being Irish according to you. I’ll take it that you are just ignorant, but this isn’t the case. The folks in NI who want to stay in the UK are British – by birth and by desire to stay that way. A few words based on ignorance from someone on a bulletin board doesn’t change that.

    ‘Putting up flags does not make you British!’

    No indeed, but who claimed that it did?

    In case you hadn’t noticed, there is a dispute going on about the constitutional status of Northern Ireland. Between the British people in NI (and they are British) and the Irish people there. The less educated on each side take this dispute and engage in behaviour that is designed to mark out their territory. So they paint things in ‘their’ colours to show that areas are their territory. And hang flags etc.

    The problem with many of you English folks is that there is no constitutional dispute over the area of the UK in which you live. No one is trying to take all of, or any part of, England into another country. If for example there WAS an ongoing campaign to get Kent transferred to France, and those who wanted this flew French flags etc in Kent, they would probably be people who would show a bit more interest in flying flags and other symbolism to show their Britishness.

    But at the moment England is safe within the UK, so the English are a soft lot who take that for granted. The British in NI on the other hand are at the sharp end of a campaign to have their part of the Uk removed from the UK, so that it won’t be British any longer.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Harpo.

    I might be wrong, but I believe English lives in the 6 co’s and has done for some time.

  • Andy Mac

    ‘I might be wrong, but I believe English lives in the 6 co’s and has done for some time.’

    Which only goes to highlight English’s high level of thickness, and doesn’t make Harpo’s post any less valid.

    By the way its called Northern Ireland, NI for short if you like. I’m sure you’ll get the hang of it.

  • lib2016

    “…NI for short if you like.” But not for long!

  • ozzy

    Being English I find it all very difficult to understand but what I do know is that when visiting NI I was ashamed to be English. I began to understand the indoctrination by the media and the oppression of the Catholics. The flying of the Union Jack really emphasised this to me and I was embarrassed by the flag and all that it stood for.

  • Kathy_C

    Hi Ozzy, I was encouraged to read what you wrote…it shows that there is hope. Times are changing and the union jack will be changed as well….
    did you see in the paper today
    http;//observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1816241,00.html how voters back English only parliament? The English are identifing more and more with just the St. George Cross and St. George…and soon the uk is going to be changed forever…a parliament for just English…not all the UK… Tell your countrymen what is really going on in the north of Ireland and how the unionist/loyalist are giving the English a bad reputation…..

  • harpo

    ‘and soon the uk is going to be changed forever…a parliament for just English…not all the UK…’

    Kathy:

    You do make me laugh. Even if a parliament was set up for just England, there would still be a federal parliament to cover federal level matters. This may be hard for you to understand, but think of the US. All those states, each with their own state level government. Those state level governments don’t mean that there isn’t a federal level government as well, do they?

    At the moment the Scottish and Welsh ‘parliaments’ don’t have all powers devolved to them. Certain powers are devolved, and federal level ones aren’t. Westminster still deals with federal level matters.

    If a similar parliament was set up for England, Westminster would still be there as the federal level parliament. Presumably the England parliament would be elsewhere, dealing with devolved England only matters.

    ‘Tell your countrymen what is really going on in the north of Ireland’

    Just what is going on in Donegal that vexes you so much?