Bobby Sands’ 25th Anniversary

Tomorrow marks the 25th anniversary of the death of probably the most internationally recognised Irish republican of the modern era, IRA hunger-striker, Bobby Sands. There are numerous commemorations and events planned across Ireland to mark the event. One such event is a Question and Answers session planned for the Balmoral Hotel, Belfast on Saturday at 1pm. The twin themes for the gathering are ‘The legacy of the 1981 Hunger Strike’ and ‘A Vision of Ireland in 2016.’ The panellists include Alan McBride, Chris McGimpsey, John Finucane and Toireasa Ferris. All are welcome to attend what should be an interesting discussion.
Meanwhile, Radio Ulster’s Arts Extra tonight carried a discussion on the writings of Bobby Sands, with contributions from Danny Morrison and Fintan O’Toole

  • Mayoman

    So Stephen you like to see terrorists killed but enjoy and laugh at the killings of one of the worst pices of base sectarian terrorist s**m to come out of Ireland. Your hypocrisy, like so many of other apologist unionists,sickens me. The more I hear from you, the mnore I think Mary McAlees had a point.

  • stephen

    mayoman,

    I didnt say any of that.

    I said, (if you can read) that ir someone is going to take the lives of others, then surely it is justifiable to take his/her life to protect the greater number.
    I think that is correct.
    Yes, I was very pleased when the scum at Loughgall were removed, and if that sickens you, – tough.

    As for McAleese, she is nothing but a back street republican, ignorant of Unionist culture, and unaware of the murderous campaign of the ira we have won through.

    No, away back to your bog.

  • Mayoman

    “No, away back to your bog”

    I rest my case.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Stephen

    “That’s interesting, first of all we weren’t in a war, and also, unarmed members of the security forces were never afforded this right, were they?”

    Never mind the semantic question about war, I was talking about the Milltown massacre. I made the point that EVEN in war some things are regarded as unacceptable – so presumably if an action is unacceptable on the battlefield, it must be exponentially more unacceptable at a funeral.

    But yes, you’re right, the IRA showed no mercy to unarmed UDR men. Those killings were sheer bloody murder. And when the state forces killed unarmed people, that was sheer bloody murder too. (Seriously, I hope you don’t think I have any truck with the IRA, I know all about the nature of that organisation. Nor do I have any illusions about state forces.)

    “Note, “I WOULDNT SAY SO, OTHERS WOULD”. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?”

    Sorry, I was picking up on the subtext. You also said you are against all killings, then went on to refer to specific killings that you applaud. Forgive me if I’m digging a little deeper here.

    “Gibraltar, these terrorists were there to detonate a large bomb with the potential to kill scores of people.
    It comes down to simple figures. Either you let these bombers go, let them kill 50 podd people, and do it again and again, or you terminate their activities. I for one support 100% the actions taken, as it saved possibly hundreds of lives.”

    You didn’t answer my question: why not arrest them? You say the choice was either shoot them or let them proceed with the attack, but that’s not true. They could have been arrested and shipped home for trial – and the conviction that the Diplock courts virtually guaranteed. That’s the option that state forces are supposed to take unless in the course of apprehension their lives are endangered. But we know the IRA team was unarmed, and that no attempt was made to arrest them.

    So why not arrest them? Surely where they belonged was behind bars?

    “With those remarks you are not to be taken seriously, really. Apart form the Miami showmand shooting, the UDR in the face of the most fierce provacation have stood steadfastly in the middle with impunity.”

    Interesting Freudian slip there! I presume you didn’t mean “impunity”, though that is probably the right word for the way the UDR was allowed to operate.

    But I see your mind is closed to any but the official narrative, in which your boys were heroes who behaved with saint-like patience in the face of the unique wickedness of the natives, who were simply too stupid to understand that your intentions were benign.

    It’s the classic imperial narrative, from first century Gaul to 19th century Africa to 21st century Iraq.

    “Unionists remember the IRA for the bombs which blew people to little pieces, people being shot in the back, women tortured, off duty wee lads from England being shot in the most obscene and cowardly manner.”

    I know, and I don’t dispute any of that for a second. It was sickening and vile and wrong. With the UDR, nationalists remember people being shot, loyalists in uniform (seriously, imagine how you’d have felt if IRA men had some sort of state sanction, if you met IRA-manned checkpoints, if you had to show ID and answer questions to an IRA men – because that’s what nationalists had to do with loyalists in the UDR), people beaten to pulp on roadsides, prisoners tortured, and so on and so on.

    I’m not for one second disputing the crimes of the IRA. I’m not disputing any crimes here. You are.

    “You are really scraping the barrell. The IRA were a faceless, cowardly group, the UDR went out in the clear light of day, along with the rest of the security forces with a uniform on to face these scum.”

    You’re right about the IRA, wrong about the UDR, but I suppose there is little more to be had from this debate. If you are immune to facts and evidence, I don’t suppose you’ll be susceptible to argument. Your mind is closed. (I read on another thread that you are a former UDR man yourself? Fair enough, I can see why you’d rather just ignore all this stuff.)

  • Billy Pilgrim

    “You say that the Irish army are rivals? HA HA HA, I personally know plenty of currently serving Irish soldiers, and believe me, many of them are in the IRA.”

    I have trouble believing you, as you have demonstrated how low your threshold of proof on this issue is. You showed with your views on the Milltown massacre that you support killing based on suspicion, and attendance at a funeral is enough to constitute suspicion. So you’ll forgive me if, in the absence of corroborating evidence (and I’m genuinely not aware of any) I remain sceptical of your claims of widespread Irish Army/IRA collusion.

    “Also, Breen and Buchanan is an isolated case, well so is the UDR with the miami showband.”

    But we know the Miami Showband was not isolated. The Irish News revelations last week proved that it was anything but isolated. If there is evidence of Garda/IRA collusion, no doubt the evidence will emerge, as it is emerging regarding state/loyalist collusion in the north.

    “I am sure there are many more with the Irish Army, who trained Mr Gallagher, remember the IRA sniper?”

    I don’t know about that case. How can you be “sure” without evidence? I don’t know if you’ll turn out to be right or wrong, but I do know that your certainty is not based on facts or evidence. So what is it based on?

    “The state is responsible for protecting its citizens, and if that means shooting a suicide bomber dead before he kills many more, or a bomber about to detonate a bomb with the same potential devastation, THEN IT IS JUSTIFIED.”

    Perhaps, but neither Milltown nor Gibraltar meets these criteria. The dead at Gibraltar were citizens of the state – isn’t the state responsible for protecting them too? If citizens are regarded as a threat to the state and other citizens, that is what the rule of law is for.

    “Your rantings about the UDR are sickeningly nauseating.”

    With respect, I don’t think I was ranting.

    “Pity none of your community has the balls to stand up to all paramilitaries in the way our community has, and continues to do.”

    (Sighs) If you do indeed have a PhD in Irish history, then all I can say is that your views are profoundly depressing on many levels.

    “If you want to come on here to rant, fair enough, but don’t expect me to answer any more scurrilous remarks, or derogatory claims about the security forces.”

    Again, I don’t think I was ranting anywhere, and I don’t think I made any scurrilous remarks either. I think your mind is closed on this issue, and you are struggling with the cognitive dissonance that recent revelations have created.

    “The only good terrorist, is a dead one.”

    You honestly do not strike me as having the sophistication one might expect of a doctoral graduate. Though the sophistication of a former UDR man sounds about right. Guys like you, in uniform and armed – see why nationalists feel as they do about the UDR? (Who, in fairness, weren’t objectively much worse than the other state forces.)

  • stephen

    As a former UDR man, I have first hand experience, and years of service, and therefore I am qualified to comment on my former colleagues.

    Sorry I am not ‘sophisticated’, but I am honest, if at sometimes a bit blunt.

    Billy, I really do wonder if you actually read my post.

    Again, I typed “I WOULDNT SAY SO, OTHERS WOULD”. in reference to whether people who support terrorism at a funeral deserve to be shot at.

    NOWHERE did I say I was in favour of it.

    Let me be clear.

    I support 100% of terrorists on active service who are clearly there to take numerous lives.

    I do not support murder, nor any paramilitary organisation, and I do not accept your assertions on collusion.

    I notice that when I turned around the garda and IRA and Irish army collusion, you dont seem to like that, do you?

    All you can say is, Im sure there will be more examples of killing.

    Yeah, yeah, yeah…I am sure there wont be, as the Miamai showband was a one off, and nothing else has been proven.

    Your comments are sickening still about equating the nationalist opinion of the udr with Unionist opinion of the Ira.

    That is sick, and if you believe that to be true, in spite of your last sentence which says the UDR were not much worse than state forces, then you really are a buffoon.

  • ‘Let me be clear.

    I support 100% of terrorists on active service who are clearly there to take numerous lives.’

    LOL. Terrorists in a UDR uniform?

    Billy has run rings around you all day, don’t know why he’s wasting time with you. Nationalist opinion of the UDR and other British regiments was created by how the British saw them, as the enemy.

    Unionist opinion of the IRA is like Nationalist opinion of the UFF. The point is that the UDR ranks was littered with UFF men. Deal with that reality.

    All together now Stephen…

    ‘ Whilst not all UDR men were bigotted, loyalist murderers, a good tenth of them were’

    The truth sets you free Stephen

  • stephen

    course he has!!! lol

    The sentence was in relation to the previous assertions you idiot.

    IE, I support the removal of terrorists 100% who are there to take lives.

    ‘uff were littered in the udr’, bollocks.

    Simply untrue.

    The truth will set you free, and this is definitely not it sunshine.

    When you stop voting for scumbag terrorists, come back and we can actually debate.

  • Stephen,

    You wouldn’t be the first UDR man to insult myself but you’ve the achievement of being the first to do so in my adult life. Well done, bug man.

    I’m sorry for ‘mis-interpreting’ your comment. May i suggest that when you type ‘Let me be clear’ that you actually be just that because it reads contrary to what you say you meant.
    This need for clarity is given extra weight by the fact you’ve been accusing Billy of not responding to what you actually wrote and to ‘read my comments properly’.

    ‘‘uff were littered in the udr’, bollocks.

    Simply untrue.’

    I’m sorry, are you in disagreement with the intelligence files of Her Majesty’s Government?

    ‘When you stop voting for scumbag terrorists, come back and we can actually debate.’

    Stephen, Stephen. I feel your pain. I may even sympathise with you. It couldn’t have been easy defending Ulster agin the Fenian hordes. Its got to have tormented your mind. May even have found yourself day-dreaming of doing a Mai Lai in Crossmaglen but please don’t make malicously stereo-typed assumptions about people you know nothing about. Never voted SF, it is they you allude to right?

    Lets make this truth thing easier for you…

    ‘While most UDR men were decent people,(some of them even Salt of the Earth), a good tenth of them were bigotted, prejudical, assumption making loyalist murderers and sympathizers’

  • stephen

    bug man?? lol…

    Well that is original, I will give you that.

    I’m sorry, are you in disagreement with the intelligence files of Her Majesty’s Government?

    yes, I am, just as I was over the wmd and was proved right with that too….

    FYI, we defended agaist ALL paramilitry scum, not just ‘fenian hordes’, as you put it.

    So, you have NEVER voted for SF? is that right?
    I dont believe you.

    As for your ‘truth’, believe whatever you like, but I know the truth, been there, done it, and I know the real truth.

    Keep dreaming.

    Funny nobody was ever caught, isnt it? I mean if there were so many in the UFF, it would have been quite easy to watch them, and keep tabs on, wouldnt it…lol…you idiot.

    Meanwhile, I will continue to correct you and other ignoramuses as and when you raise your slanted and narrow minded unfounded allegations.

  • Well it wouldn’t be the first time i’ve been repeatedly insulted by a UDR man without provocation but you have another distinction of being the first to do so in my adult life.

    ‘I’m sorry, are you in disagreement with the intelligence files of Her Majesty’s Government?

    yes, I am, just as I was over the wmd and was proved right with that too….’

    Ah, we had some common ground over WMD, my my. So you are equating the biggest lie of this administrations life with the files realised recently? Still, no WMD but at least Miami showband here.
    Strange that the Brits would make up stuff that paints them in a terrible light? Governments usually make up stuff that creates a good image of themselves. Seems strange that they would have kept these ‘lies’ hidden for 30yrs just to release them now. Great foresight, and only you who knows its all lies.
    I take it when being briefed by Br Intel during your duty in the UDR you didn’t believe a word they said so disobeyed orders?

    ‘FYI, we defended agaist ALL paramilitry scum, not just ‘fenian hordes’, as you put it.’

    As everyone else but you see it Stephen, some UDR men would have had to be defending Ulster people agin themselves. When does the UFF man inside the uniform give way to the UDR man inside the uniform?

    ‘I dont believe you.’

    You don’t seem to believe anything Stephen other than that which emanates from your increasingly prejudicial thought patterns. I live in London, couldn’t really stomach all the violence and UDR harassment. Vote green surely but just the Green party.

    Stephen, while the world may yet have to admit they were wrong and you alone held the truth, i’ll continue to base my ‘narrow-minded’ opinions on the evidence within the public arena.

    ‘While most UDR men were decent people,(some of them even Salt of the Earth), some repeatedly insult people based on presumptions in their head and a good tenth of them were bigotted, prejudical, assumption making loyalist murderers and sympathizers’

    Don’t insult me again, thank you.

  • stephen

    yep, that figures, living in London and an expert on all things political in NI, TYPICAL.

    Your crap about the uff is just that; crap.

    Your insults to my former service, and my colleagues ridsking our lives day in day out for no thanks whatsoever, is typical of many.

    “I live in London, couldn’t really stomach all the violence and UDR harassment. Vote green surely but just the Green party” yep, that fits in with your profile, with your big yeallow streak….in fact, I notice you cant even disclose your e mail address…

    And you have the cheek to dismiss attempt to discredit the brave and gallant UDR men and women, who evidently were, and still are, ten times the person you are.

    “Don’t insult me again, thank you”..

    I think after your insults on here you are the last person to lecture me on anything.

    So, in short, FUCK AWAY OFF YELLOW BELLY MAN.

    Hows that? lol

  • Intelligence Insider

    Stephen,

    The no. 4 from Gibraltar is now roasting in hell along with her three colleagues.

    Interesting to note the claims of sectarianism and bigotry in this article, given that the OC of the provo’s in Long Kesh at the time sands committed suicide was jailed for planting a bomb in a protestant bar filled with innocents, and for machine gunning the casualties that were able to crawl outside.

  • stephen

    Awk, but Martin, sure they never done anything illegal….it was all the UDR’s fault, and er, am, the Brits, they made them do it, and we are second class citizens…blah blah blah.

    Yep, I know the fourth is now six feet under, what goes around comes around, I had the pleasure(?) of serving in her area of operations…

    By the way, it sort of shoots down the argument of billy etc when they complain about the same scum being shot, instead of arrested in gibraltar etc, doesnt it?

    I dont take these posters seriously, as I suspect most of them have never been on the front line and seen how it works…

    Hope you are well, anyway.

  • Intelligence Insider

    Stephen,

    I am not “Martin” by the way, he posts under his own pseudonym.

  • stephen

    sorry.

  • bertie

    stephen

    For what it’s worth, I think that you are doing a grand job.

  • Stephen

    ‘yep, that figures, living in London and an expert on all things political in NI, TYPICAL.’

    As someone who grew up there, has all my family there, visits regularly and has a keen interest in NI politics allied with my ability to read i think that qualifies me to debate on this. I agree with your insinuation that London is in a foreign land but thats neither here nor there. We both studied History or so you lead us to believe, in our essays we debate on things that happened centuries ago, seems we shouldn’t bother unless we’re in the thick of it?

    ‘Your crap about the uff is just that; crap. ‘

    If it was just my ‘crap’ it could be dismissed as such. Unfortunately for you, its our Governments’ ‘crap’.

    ‘Your insults to my former service, and my colleagues ridsking our lives day in day out for no thanks whatsoever, is typical of many.’

    I’ve stated several times that the majority were decent people and that a few were probably salt of the earth. Its those who were using the ‘legitimacy’ granted by a UDR uniform to carry out loyalist paramilitarism that i have a truck with. And frankly, rather than denial you should be attacking them too as in not doing you further blacken the name of the UDR you hold dearly.

    ‘I live in London, couldn’t really stomach all the violence and UDR harassment. Vote green surely but just the Green party” yep, that fits in with your profile, with your big yeallow streak….in fact, I notice you cant even disclose your e mail address…’

    Did you want my e-mail address so you could hurl more insults Stephen?
    So the near civil war in NI sort of depressed me as did the insults from UDR men with guns on my streets and in my house and i happen to care that my grandchildren may grow up in a world where our planet is unable to sustain the human population makes me a yellow belly and so unworthy of debate.

    I’ve an uncle whose a yellow belly (Wexford) but i’m a Red Hand, Stephen.

    ‘And you have the cheek to dismiss attempt to discredit the brave and gallant UDR men and women, who evidently were, and still are, ten times the person you are.’

    I’ve no doubt some people in the UDR were 10 times better than i, as in any grouping in the world. I don’t discredit them, just the loyalists in the ranks.

    ‘I think after your insults on here you are the last person to lecture me on anything.

    So, in short, FUCK AWAY OFF YELLOW BELLY MAN.’

    I may insult an idea or an organisation but rarely if ever and certainly not repeatedly insult an individual.

    I’m afraid you’re not in a uniform now Stephen so that language just won’t do.
    I sincerely expect to see a Yellow Card dished out for your yellowbelly insult.
    Unlike you, i’m not in favour of a arbitrary justice and the slap of a Red (card, not hand).

    Now i must do more reading of those intelligence files..really can’t wait to they release the really nasty stuff they’re covering up still.

    Slan Stiofan

  • stephen

    thanks Bertie, keep on at them, and challenge their slanted and bigoted rubbish.

    All the best.

  • ct

    Sand’s “poetry”. Where to begin? It is not poetry in any true sense (including late 20th century) and it lacks too much in too many ways to be classified as nursery rhyme. Bad song lyric is probably its best hope while Lol is the natural reaction.

  • stephen

    ooooohhhhh…

    You are good for a laugh, I will give you that.

    I dont take you seriously, as your retorts are that of a half wit, and a bitter one at that.
    by typing this; “I may insult an idea or an organisation but rarely if ever and certainly not repeatedly insult an individual”
    Shows your ignorance. Dont you realise by making your scurrilous claims about my former colleagues, you are insulting myself, and each and every member?

    Those intelligence files could turn up more about republicans, and then, of course, they will be discredited to suit your and others agenda.

    Anyway, I wish you well, and next time you are in NI, just consider the amount of people still alive thanks to the security forces and the UDR.

    GOOD NIGHT.

    XXO

  • bertie

    Claddycowboy

    There are many of us (i.e. unionists) who have no higher opinion of the UVF/UFF and any of the small minority of UDR who many have either had dual membership or cooperated in terrorist acts.

  • Snuff Box

    This thread has interested me. At first I thought it was of great importance. The for some reason after I read of the death of the young lad in Ballymena it was less so. Arguing about the past seems less important than things which are going on in the present.

    Never the less the Unionist fascination with the hunge strikers on this thread is very interesting. Why is sands such a bogey man to them?

    1. Sands is differnet from most PIRA volunteers in that he has demonstrated his will to die for the cause withou it being an immediate need
    2. He refused like many others to accept the brand of criminalism which the Thatcher givernment tried to impose. This offends unionist as it flys in the face of their belief system that republican were common criminals and no more.
    3. He hd a duality of perpose. Whilst being a member of PIRA he was able to reach beyond the narrow confies of taditional republican support and garner syupport for a cause. That is he transcended any sectarianism and spoke of true republicanism.
    4. He is a manifestation of the Rebulicanism in Ireland which will never die and whcihc will continue until the goal is achieved, no matter what the cost is to themselves.

    This is why some have tried to say that it would have been better if he would have given up. This is why unionists bliundly say that he was a common criminal and refuse to recognise his political motivation. This is why Unionism will ultimately fail. It fails to adapt and see thing from th other side, It fails to break out of the “one people, one state” mentality that will be its un-doing

  • bertie

    SB, because he was a terrorist and criminal we don’t much care what his motivation was. I shouldn’t really say “we” as we are all different and I can’t claim to speak for “us”.

    Quite frankly I don’t see why not being a unionist is any excuse for not seeing him as a terrorist/criminal and indeed I know nationlists who do see him in that light as well as me.

  • stephen

    sb, unionists are ready to share power, with DEMOCRATS, not groupings involved with criminal gangs.

    Sands is a figure of fun for most loyalists, as they see his death and that of the other hunger strikers as a complete waste, and one which came from brainwashing from republicans and their misplaced beliefs.

    In hindsight, even his family view his death as an unnecessary outcome, as today the only thing it changed was the amount of money ‘mi5-gerry’ and the rest get.

    The only thing it achieved was to recruit more wee lads into the provos to be used, and ultimately therefore, more victims….on both sides.

    Something to celebrate? not in my book.

  • ct

    If he was around today he would probably be a nobody or an MLA.

  • stephen on May 08, 2006 @ 02:41 PM“…The people at that funeral were in attendance because of their support for the IRA.
    Is that reason enough to be shot, or blown up? hmmm, I wouldnt say so, although others would…”

    I’d like to point out that this is a mirror of the attitude and rationale (sic) taken by those who bombed the Remembrence in Enniskillen

    I’m not tit for tat-ing or engaging in whataboutery but highlighting the hypocracy of Stephen’s earlier posting. I call it hypocracy as I don’t believe his “…I wouldnt say so, although others would…” disclaimer.

    The ‘eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’ rule would leave us all blind and toothless (as we can witness by Stephen’s postings).

    stephen on May 09, 2006 @ 07:19 PM writes…” yep, that figures, living in London and an expert on all things political in NI, TYPICAL…” and yet earlier mentions his PhD from Trinity. Dimissing CC’s views altho’ he’s a member of London society and backs up his knowledge based on an RoI education – a tangled web.

  • Snuff Box

    Stephen

    Tell me this Stephen does the Unionist mindset conceid that Sands and the other Hunger Srikers were any thing more that just common criminals? Does it even allow itself to admit that but for politics people like Sands would have no brushes with the Law? Or does it see these men as mere theives and Rouges? I’m interested to hear your reply.

  • TAFKABO

    If he was around today he would probably be a nobody or an MLA.

    What’s the difference?

  • stephen

    anon, a completely incoherent ramble.

    If you actually take time to read my postings, you will find that my comments about peoples minset about justifying killings was the subject.
    You typed:

    “The people at that funeral were in attendance because of their support for the IRA.
    Is that reason enough to be shot, or blown up? hmmm, I wouldnt say so, although others would…”

    I’d like to point out that this is a mirror of the attitude and rationale (sic) taken by those who bombed the Remembrence in Enniskillen

    I’m not tit for tat-ing or engaging in whataboutery but highlighting the hypocracy of Stephen’s earlier posting. I call it hypocracy as I don’t believe his “…I wouldnt say so, although others would…” disclaimer.

    Clearly, I am saying I wouldnt agree with the justification. Get it?

    Secondly,the enneskillen bomb was indiscriminate and aimed at people remembering the dead in wars gone by, including soldiers from all communities, and definitely not the same as remembring IRA scum at milltown. A clear difference, and therefore not to be equated.

    Thirdly, there is no hypocrisy in saying I dont believe in certain justification for killings. Whether you believe me or not, I really couldnt care less…as you and your opinion does not matter to me.

    sb, a really interesting topic and question.

    Truthfully, I find it hard to equate their waste of life with anything other than misplaced brainwashing. I do however admit there was obviously a patriotic, or political motivation, however misplaced, to do what they were engaged in. They were also criminals, but I dont think you could categorise them beside a repetetive burgular for example.

    So, Criminals, yes, but a different sort…I definitely wouldnt say thieves. rogues – maybe; determined and dangerous terrorists , yes.

    Perhaps I could counter and ask you SB, do you think that it was a coincidence that many of the ‘volunteers’ you had in the ranks were people who lets say were more susceptible to breaking the law?

    And if the ‘so called struggle’ wasnt happening, they would have been involved in organised crime?

    Genuine question.

  • Stiofan

    Luckily for you, as i’m sure for a few loyalists over the years, the authorities seem to have turned a blind eye to your misdemeanours.

    I could follow your lead with the multiple insults by calling you a pig ignorant arsehole with acute denial syndrome, who couldn’t tell you how many parts compromise a Trinity nevermind attain a Phd there,…but i won’t do that.
    (Great craic this disclaimer bit at the end, isn’t it? Great find that Stephen)

    Fact of the matter is still clear even through all your bluster and insults is that i’ve been clear in stating that most UDR people were decent but a minority which in reality constitutes thousands of UDR people were engaged in Loyalist terrorism or sympathising with it.

    You completely deny this, unable to accept reality.

    You state your personal experiences to back up your claim. I have my personal experiences to back up my claim. I also have the weighty evidence supplied to us by HMG to give more force to my assertion. Deal with it.

    Not all teachers are bad people because a few have sex with their young pupils. Use that as your basis for interpreting my point instead of knee-jerk reaction and blind faith.

    PS I think Bertie was commending you on your duty in the UDR and not in ‘putting it up to us’uns although i’m sure they both went hand in hand years ago….

  • stephen

    great clady…thanks for your post, I feel enlightened for reading it.

    You should consider a career in lecturing….to horses.

  • Neigh problem, you’re not a bad apple but a smart cookie

  • stephen

    was that joke intentional? ‘neeeiiigghhh’ problem…ho ho, get it?

    oh we could be great friends ….

  • In reply to stephen on May 10, 2006 @ 09:50 AM
    “ Clearly, I am saying I wouldnt agree with the justification. Get it? “
    Clearly, I’m saying I don’t believe your disclaimer (as I posted in black and white) as you make reference to other deaths which amused you. Get it?
    Stone’s attack was indiscriminate and aimed at people remembering the dead. A clear similarity, and therefore easily equated.
    In your mind you have justified the deaths of some during the troubles in the same way as your enemies have done the same. You have become the exact same as a Provie; just goes to show that UDR/UVF and Provos are the same.
    Thirdly, there is hypocrisy in saying you believe in certain justification for killings as the IRA killings and UDR killings are the exact same as the actions of Stone and others.

    The UDR have always been held, in nationalist viewpoints, to be part of the problem and very far away from the solution. As recently as last week this was brought to light although ignored by the unionist leaders.
    “…as you and your opinion does not matter to me”. Get used to it as demographics show you’ll be listening to more nationalist and republican viewpoints in the Sick Counties.

    You have displayed some of the ugliest views and communics I ever seen on this site. Sad really.

  • stephen

    thanks for your post anon, unfortunately, you make more inane and purile comments, which I dont take seriously, as I do not care for your views.

    You must be hoppin around there, lol.

    The old tactic of trying to equate the security forces with your scummy ira etc doesnt wash, and is simply laughable.

    The criminal cowards of the ira are in the depths of depravitiy, and nothing you write, or say will change history. Look back on the facts, and the butchering of men, women and children by your ‘heroes’.

    It is YOU who is in denial, and it is YOU who is sick in defending the yellow beely scum of the earth that paramilitaries of all sides are.

    Now, please dont bother replying, cos I wont waste any more time on you, or your ilk.

  • “…as I do not care for your views.” Whether or which, demographics imply that, although you mightn’t care for them they might be the views of the majority of the Sick Counties soon. This might lead to officially recognized proclaimations and memorials. I suggest a visit to a ‘qualified’ doctor for your blood pressure and a visit to a ‘qualified’ member of the clergy for your soul.

    You must be hoppin around there, lol.” Not in the slightest as I’m used to the SluggerOToole site and have learned not to get riled by postings such as yours. Listen carefully, that’s the sound of water flowing off a ducks back.

    “…old tactic of trying to equate the security forces…” I never said it was my viewpoint but the opinions of many in NI. I suggest you accept that many (possibly almost 50%) hold these opinions. I was also pointing out that you had very, very similar opinions are your sworn enemies regarding killing of opposition. You are exactly like a UVF which in turn is a mirror of a Provo – congrats you must be proud.

    “… men, women and children by your ‘heroes’. “ I’ve never supported anyone but I’d like to point out, in the most recent past, Lisa Dorrnian, and the boy in N Belfast were killed by UVF and I’d bet the killers will prove to be connected to the security forces. The most recent killing of a child (in Ballymena) wasn’t by the Provo side but…

    “It is YOU who is in denial, and it is YOU who is sick in defending the yellow beely scum of the earth that paramilitaries of all sides are” right back atcha with the UDR, RUC and Briot Army included in the equation.
    Slan leat and go raibh maith agat (that last is just to be petty as opposed to your vulgar insults)

  • stephen
  • stephen

    yawn….

  • “Bobby Sands, the first of the hunger strikers to die, compared himself with Christ, quoting the Bible…” that’s ridiculous. Anyone quoting from the Bible is comparing themselves to Christ! You wouldn’t get that basic error in a child’s school essay.

    “ The republican movement has every right to reassert the legitimacy of the struggle by its prisoners for political status and to commemorate its dead and honour them.”…and “… the hunger strikes showed extraordinary dedication and selflessness in pursuit of their cause. They suffered appaling privations….” She saying that the RM should be allowed commemorate – strange that you’d highlight this !

    “..Gerry Adams referred to the 50 others who died during the summer of 1981” and like Gerry, you consider some to have been less deserving to die. What’s that old expression ‘show me your friends and I’ll know who you are’ kinda ironic that you and Gerry are friends (or at least have similar viewpoints).

    “ The DUP used ugly and demeaning language…” I guess this should read the DUP and Stephen.

    “The IRA’s 1987 massacre at the Cenotaph in Enniskillen was particularly deplored because those murdered were civilians engaged in a ceremony of commemoration. “ and yet I believe you didn’t deplore the killings in Milltown when he attacked the Gibaltar funeral.

    “Republicans should acknowledge the terrible damage done by the recklessness of the IRA’s campaign at that time while it remembers the bravery of those who chose to die for Ireland.” Likewise the UDR/UVF, RUC & Brit Army should do the same, sauce for the goose and all that.

    Slan agus tog go bog e (again merely petty as opposed to your base insults).

  • stephen

    more crap…..

    pity you are exposing your lack of intellect…keep going, we are all laughing at you..!! lol

  • stephen wrote on May 09, 2006 @ 08:40 PM “… by typing this; “I may insult an idea or an organisation but rarely if ever and certainly not repeatedly insult an individual”
    Shows your ignorance. Dont you realise by making your scurrilous claims about my former colleagues, you are insulting myself, and each and every member?

    Kinda like when the Ayatollah says that he doesn’t hate individual Catholics or wish them any harm but he hates the Church of Rome and the Whore in the Vatican etc. Surprisingly, some might take your rationale and cause A LITTLE MISCHIEF to a few young Catholics.

    Now let me Google Ballymena ‘the buckle of the Bible belt’ to see what’s happened there recently.

  • stephen on May 10, 2006 @ 05:33 PM wrote “… cos I wont waste any more time on you, or your ilk. “

    stephen on May 10, 2006 @ 06:16 PM wrote “…yawn…. “

    I’m expecting Blair and co. to be quoting you any day soon

  • stephen

    LOL. OH DEAR!!!

    I am not even a protestant, but yet, moron here thinks he knows my opinion about the catholic church!!!

    Keep going, please, you are looking even more foolish….please, give us more

  • I don’t believe I addressed you presumed religion or made any mention of your beliefs.

    I simply pointed to your rationale of insulting a grouping (religion) can have a subsequent effect on the individual. I also stronly hinted to a recent actual case and my belief as to where the origin of the effect lies.

    Stephen, you make this all worthwile. Sincerely.

    Mick, shouldn’t you or one of the moderators have interjected to piont out the excessive ‘ball not man’ in this thread?

  • stephen

    dont stop, please, give me more….lol

    Yep, ball not man would apply to you, since you are raving about catholics and the recent killing, and trying to link my ‘beliefs’ (not that you have a clue about mine), to the recent tragic killing in Ballymena.

    I have some friends around for the match, and they are pissing themeselves at you, you buffoon.

    Keep going, please!

    What about the new pope? What do you think he is like?

    He doesnt suit the hat does he? Which one is best, paisley’s russian one, or Benedicts?

  • no, let me AGAIN post that I never mentioned your beliefs; talk about putting two and two together and getting twenty two. I am, however, linking your rationale, of May 09, 2006 @ 08:40 PM, on the connection between insulting a group and the subsequent effect that can sometimes result to the individual.

    Foolish me, I shouldn’t have expected much of a debate from a Trinners grad.

    Altho’ come to think of it, that claim of yours may be suspect: I thought that the UDR only took the trash of the Sick Cos. while Trinners tried to maintain a link with the ‘old money Ulster stock’.

  • stephen

    the hats, what about the hats man?

    lol…