Anti-Prod bandwagon, or justifable comment..?

AFTER the recent attacks on foreign nationals in south Belfast, there was a protest in one loyalist area against alleged “anti-social behaviour” by those people. The SDLP has today likened the protesters to Nazis. Godwin’s Law is getting a tad overused in NI.

  • Baluba

    This is the absolute capital of Godwin’s Law!

  • [Pedantry]
    Godwins law is only applicable to online discussions.
    [/Pedandtry]

    Sometimes a comparison to Nazis is perfectly justifiable, but for the sake of clarity, one probably should refer to such people as Neo Nazis, instead of being “Like Nazis”.

  • SlugFest

    what exactly is the ‘anti-social behavior’ the protesters are so against?

    if there’s any cause to their claim (which i’m sure is nonsense), they should be able to back it up by describing the specific behavior that posed such a problem to the community.

    of course, we all know that won’t happen, so why not gather the rest of the community — the non-spides — and drive the attackers out of the community with pitchforks and torches.

  • Brian Boru

    Violence against innocent people of immigrant origin is not acceptable, and whatever the allegations of “anti-social behaviour” (which I would have thought smashing windows is), this remains the case.

  • Just because people overuse nazi analogies does not make such references unjustified per se. In this case, far from condemning the attack on the home of foreign nationals, the local ‘community’ (for community read ‘people with single-digit IQs self-appointing themselves as spokespersons for the whole area) ganging up against the victims and accusing them of anti-social behaviour!

    Most people when they are aware of ‘anti-social behaviour’ call the police or council. Not put a brick through their window and then protest against the victims of said attack.

    I wonder would they picket a UDA man’s house for him being ‘anti-social’ and having had his window put through. After all, surely dealing drugs and murdering people from one’s own community is the perfect example of anti-social behaviour.

    Anyone recall the Night of the Broken Glass…?

  • Witchfinder General

    The UVF/UDA have terrorised, intimated, threatened, murdered, exhorted and filled Protestant areas with the curse of drugs and they have the cheek to protest about “anti-social behaviour”!!!

    Again these mindless thugs showed they`re nothing but fascists. The old ways die hard for the UVF/UDA. Wonder what their representative on the policing board will say?

  • ben

    When people act exactly like Nazis, comparing them to Nazis is justified.

  • Manc

    Kristalnacht anyone?

    Total hypocracy on behalf of those supposedly representing the people of South Belfast. Totally justifiable comparison to Nazism here.

  • gg

    Do loyalist groups not have links with Combat 18 and the like? I’m sure I read that somewhere.

    If that is the case, then the comparison is quite justifiable!

  • Little_Timmy

    McDonald makes me sick with his comments. How can he claim to represent these ‘Nazis’ interests in Parliament. Pity there was no unionist politician willing to utterly bash him for his flippancy.

    Priests, Presidents, Justice Ministers and South Belfast MPs do an utter disservice to the memory of 6M people processed through death camps in their petty attempts to demonise ‘the other side’ in this country. McDonald would be better advised to wise up, try to help tackle the problem. Personally I would think that this anti-social behaviour could be nubbed if these chaps had a gentle knock on the door from local community activists after the hours of darkness…..order restored.

  • lineout

    The word Nazi is way overused. However, given that context, this is entirely justified comment. Ask any Filipino nurse among those who had the misfortune to move into this sometimes nasty little area.

  • Kathy_C

    Posted by Kathy C

    Hi all, The sdlp were correct. Those that protested in the loyalist areas didn’t protest the hammer attack on the immigrants…no they protested the fact they feel the immigrants are the problem. The loyalist are blaming a race of people(s) for their economic situation. That’s what hitler did with the Jews…blame them for Germany’s problem. Interesting that many Polish nationals are being targetted…the loyalist see them as Catholics…and now they have more Catholics to attack…the Irish ones …the ones from the Phillipines and the ones from Poland. The loyalsit world is changing…I think the sdlp called it spot on.

  • norman

    One of the banners held by a protester during last nights ‘protest’ summed up the true sentiment of the protest, it read..

    THIS IS A LOYALIST AREA.

    Nazi/neo nazi/rascist/sectarian, all the labels seem to fit these thugs.

  • TL

    But let us remember the most important ramification of Godwin’s law:
    “… once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.”
    It has nothing to do with the analogy per se. The debate is over!

  • william

    How apt of the ‘loyalists’ of south belfast to demonstrate their ‘fundamentalist’ credentials (the night after a polish man was beaten) the same night the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom made a reference to ‘protestant fundamentalists’ murdering catholics (1100 during the troubles) just because they were catholics.
    And how appropriate the DUP and Ian Paisley jr of all people – should protest about the same the morning after, ignoring the previous nights behaviour of many of his partys loyalist supporters!

  • Doctor Who

    As someone of an ethnic Polish background, I am sickened by these attacks on the immigrant community.

    However there many law abiding and respected members of the Polish community in South Belfast who are ashamed of the criminal element within that group.

    On the Nolan show this morning a Donegal Road resident came on and justified the actions of residents…this resident stressed that the protest was aimed at a small number of Polish immigrants in the area, who had engaged in the intimidation of other residents.

    These matters had been reported to the PSNI who took 2 hours to answer local resident concerns.

    My family suffered at the hands of the Nazis, the residents of the Donegal Road are not Nazis, nor is it in any way shape and form right to compare them to Nazis.

    Local people are not signalling them out beacause they are Catholics either, the people in this proud but deprivated area of Belfast are concerned for their own community, do not tarnish these people as racists because of the actions of a few mindless idiots.

    If the Ploish immigrants in question where behaving in the same manner in a Ntionalist area the residents there would be just as peeved.

    It´s become lazy and convenient for people to tarnish anything which has a racial side to it as racist and intolerant.

  • Doctor Who

    William

    If the UVF, UDA etc are Protestant fundamentalists…motivated in similar ways to Al Queda, does that make the IRA,INLA etc Catholic fundamentalists.

    No it doesn´t.

    What it does make however is the silliness of your post and that of the comment from Tony Blair.

  • jane

    The Polish victim had been attacked on two previous occasions according to news reports, on one occasion his religion and ethnic origin were mentioned by the thugs.

    Don’t be sidelined by the spin coming from some

    Its rascism

    Lets sort the problem rather than support the loyalist paramilitary thugs who are pushing their own warped agenda.

  • missfitz

    I think its easy to jump on a bandwagon here, but I also think that a cool head needs to prevail. I am aware of other incidents where there were very serious undertones and events that precipitated attacks.

    Now, attacking a perpetrator is not a reasonable or acceptable course of action. Given our vacuum of routine policing for many years, people have a tendancy to react savagely when they feel under attack within their community.

    This is probably a very good indicator for CRJ or neighbourhood mediation. I hope that this is being looked into.

  • Doctor Who

    It´s quite clear the posts on this thread are simply “Prod Bashing”.

    Racism is irrational, abominal and also ´non sectarian´…I myself have been abused on this very site by both sides. So lets stop kidding ourselves.

    It might also be worth noting that the first Nazi´s in Ireland, Eoin Duffy´s blueshirts, where founded by (Duffy) an Irish Republican and staunch Catholic, who sent 700 of his Fascist blueshirts to fight beside Franco in the Spanish civil war.

  • gg

    Let’s think about another type of bashing rather than “prod bashing” for a second…

    I went to a policing meeting once. The policeman who was talking about hate crimes said that dissident Republicans were fond of gay bashing while Loyalist paramilitaries had a penchant for racially-motivated crimes.

    That might be an oversimpflication but it shows that hate is by no means limited to one “side”. In this case what we are seeing in Belfast is an example of race hate, so let the blame be attributed to who is doing it.

  • Brian Boru

    Doctor Who, calling the Blueshirts “Nazis” is rather OTT. They started off as bodyguards for Fine Gael meetings which were being attacked by the IRA. Then they evolved into something approaching Italian Fascism but they rejected the Nazi model out of hand. They supported Irish membership of the Commonwealth. I think you may need to reconsider your description of them and research them further. I am no fan of them mind, but ppl need to get their facts straight. And I know that racism isn’t a purely Protestant attribute nor does it represent most Protestants. But it seems hard to deny that most of this racist violence in the Six Counties is going on in Loyalist areas, do you accept that?

  • aquifer

    Sounds like some landlord is not paying his dues to the protestant paramilitaries. We still need arrests and convictions for these continuing crimes.

  • Doctor Who

    Brian Borou.

    In certain areas of Northern Ireland, ethnic minorities live without fear and experience excellent community relations.

    Craigavon and Dungannon have had sizeable ethnic minorities for decades without many serious incidents of race crime.

    The problem recently is the influx of immigrants from new EU countries, many of whom are economic migrants. The less well off of whom have been placed in the Donegal Road area of Belfast. This is an area of great econmic deprivation, possibly one of the poorest areas in Northern Ireland. An area that has suffered from Paramilitary influence and has a negative public image. However the many fine people in that area are keen to live their lives as best they can.

    The recent disturbances involve a group of about twelve Polish immigrants who party hard, drink in the alleyways, urinate in the streets and intimidate local residents. The PSNI have not responded accordingly to the needs of the local residents.

    When this happens people take the law into their own hands and unfortunately the hands of the local hoods. One man was viciously attacked with a hammer by one other man. One man is not enough to condemn a whole community.

    Many immigrants live in the area, not by choice but the council feel that it´s good enough for them, so where does the racism start and how does this attitude make the local residents feel…Well like second class citizens.

    I repeat if these people where being concentrated in areas off the Falls Road the same thing would happen, or maybe you think there would be some sort of cultural interchange.

    Your dilution of the blueshirt is very surprising, as you well know Nazism was modelled on Italian Fascism. Duffy did see advantages in remaining in the Commomwealth, but your statement about him rejecting the Nazi mode of Fascism is only applicable post 1943. It´s also irrelevant as Franco´s Fascism and war against the Democratically elected Repulican government in Spain was brutal enough. The point I was making was that modern Fascism in Ireland was born in the Irish Free State with a staunch Catholic at it´s healm, thus highlighting that Fascism or Neo Nazism does not just belong to a handful of paramiltary thugs on the Donegal Road.

  • wes

    The connections between the uvf and far right extremists in South Belfast goes back many years

    The village,Donegall Road,Sandy Row,Donegall Pass areas have been to the fore in pushing this neo nazi campaign against migrant workers and non nationals

    Senior figures within the uvf are orchestratating the sectarian/rasist campaign

  • wes

    With the support of the local community

  • Doctor Who

    Wes

    If that is the case and although you present no evidence, you still maybe right, then why in Beelzebubs balls are these people being housed there by the council.

    The short answer is the council doesn´t care for the immigrants or the people of the Donegal Road.

  • Joe

    The recent disturbances involve a group of about twelve Polish immigrants who party hard, drink in the alleyways, urinate in the streets and intimidate local residents.

    Wow. Because of course such behaviour was wholly unknown in east Belfast until Polish immigrants arrived.

  • missfitz

    Well, as I predicted, there is going to be a face to face mediation today between the protestors and those being accused of anti social behaviour. Lets see how that turns out

  • fair_deal

    Doctor Who

    They are not housed there by the Council. It is private landlord accomodation. The Council has no housing powers in NI. Also migrant workers are not entitled to NIHE housing until they have been here a year.

  • yeahright

    who here reckons that doctor who is not a polish immigrant as he says he is, but rather a loyalist apologist trying to put a spin on this whole sick sorry affair?

  • I too am opposed to the anti-social behaviour of foreigners in the north of Ireland. Of course, the foreigners that I am talking about are the British colonists known as the unionists.

  • Shore Road Resident

    Finally, the proof that prejudice is all around us. Cheers Diarmid.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    I feel the term “Godwin’s law” is applicable here.

    The SDLP are obviously trying to insult the Protestant protestors with the worst comparison they can possibly think of – the Nazis – who the protestors’ forefathers would have fought and died at the hands of in the process of defeating.

    The SDLP need to take a long, hard look at themselves. They were previously an integral part of the anti-British/Protestant “Pan-Nationalist Front” with Sinn Fein/IRA and the Banana Republic/Free State government, but had ideologically moved away from Sinn Fein, for the better, I’d felt.

    Are they now trying to out-green Sinn Fein by attacking everything and anything that Protestants have a genuine grievance with? If this was happening in an R.C./nationalist/republican area would they compare the protestors with Nazis….the answer is simply NO – what’s good enough for McAleese and Reid (both who I had a lot of time for previous to their overtly racist comments) is obviously “fair game” for the:
    Still
    Don’t
    Like
    Protestants
    party.

  • Doctor Who

    Joe

    I think you will find that Donegal Road is in South West Belfast. And yes those things did happen and what did you think happened to those non Polish folk.

    Fair_Deal Ha Ha Ha

    Think that if you may, but the rules of migration between the EU do cater for exceptional circumstances in regards to housing. The council will also provide them with a list of landlords willing to put them up. Get this! Mr. Non Racist not a single West Belfast Landlord registered with the City Council is willing. I have the list of areas in front of me and it is available by telephone to City Hall housing services.

    Yeahright

    If you where familiar with my posts on a multitude of threads on this site you will know that I am of Polish descent (not an immigrant, although my grandfather was), I am also Jewish and have often been held accountable by other sluggers for the actions of the Israel govt. even though I´ve never even been there.

    I have often been censored by Slugger for objecting to posts and telling the contributor where to go, even though the administrator thinks it´s alright for sluggers to glorify murder, deny the Holocaust (which is actually a crime), and often be treated to downright anti semetic crap, usually from Repulican sluggers.

    Reading your posts only confirms to me that you are ¨Prod Bashing¨.

    Republicans as well as Loyalists always had a problem with those different from them, and those with different opinions I would of thought that was obvious.

    The very fact that Fascism as we know it today was introduced to Ireland by a Republican and staunch Catholic, in Eoin Duffy, has been often overlooked.

  • Doctor Who

    TO BELFAST GONZO

    Can you please explain to me how you came to the decision to withdraw post no. 9 on page 1. But yet you let a post like no. 7 on this page remain.

    It is beyond belief aand I deserve an explanation.

    Although to be fair to the child Dermott he´s not really saying anything differnt from other Repulicans on this thread.

  • Mick Fealty

    Well, I don’t know what’s been happening on this thread since I’ve been try to write some invoices this evening so I can continue keeping this boat afloat. I’ve just come from another thread where I’ve been accused of cutting Republicans and favouring their critics. Oh, and favouring Republicans.

    Truth is, I don’t have the time nor the money it would take to buy the time needed to keep an eye on every thread. There is one easy solution. For everyone to buck up their ideas and produce arguments, rather than something more akin serial group slander.

    I’m not going to speculate on whether there has been a deal of prod bashing going on either, but there have been a lot of imaginative leaps and way too much incontinent logic maskerading as legitimate opinion. The wider readership, who mostly read but don’t comment can tell the difference I’m sure.

    Now guys, please, please get with the project and marshall your arguments. Or else I’m coming round with the spot ban, and you can argue with the Tellytubbies instead!!

  • SlugFest

    … now that’s a “wait ’till your father gets home” speech if ever i heard one. not that i’m getting all oedipal, Mick, just feeling bad as we’re making you quite harried.

    i’ve been after one particular poster of late … an admittedly pointless crusade that adds nothing to the debates.

    i will cease all needless and provocative antics … right … now.

    * sigh *

  • Doctor Who

    Point taken Mick and thanks for taking the time to almost explain your actions.

    I never suggested you favoured one side or the other.

    My point was if you censor one you censor all.

  • Mick Fealty

    Well maybe we could do with a very small number of volunteer mods (ie one or two), preferably people with experience. It’s not an easy job. I’ve lost at least one good blogger, because he found moderating was a tough stretch.

  • SlugFest

    Mick,

    I’d be more than happy to volunteer, but i’m not sure i’m what you’re looking for: i’m usually on my computer basic office hours NY time. the evenings i can’t guarantee, though the posts usually quiet down by then.

    i’ve plenty of experience editing, but none whatsoever moderating, and i’m by no means a techy (don’t even have a dvd player, except for my laptop)

    i’ll completely understand if you politely turn me down, but just know i’m here if no one else steps up to the plate.