EU offices closed over cartoons

Members of the defeated Fatah faction in Palestine have closed the EU offices in Gaza as part of a protest against three European papers which have published what some Muslims regard as blasphemous representations of the prophet Muhammad in cartoon form. The issue blogging here.

  • Biffo

    Henry94

    “The Press Council were correct in my opinion. That doesn’t mean I like the cartoon..”

    The press council rejected criticism of the Evening standard although the Evening Standard had published a derogarory cartoon about Irish people.

    You think it’s right to publish derogatory cartoons about Muslims.

    Do you think the Nazi’s were right to publish derogatory cartoons about Jews in their newspapers?

    If you were going to be consistent you would have to argue that they were. You personally may not have agreed with their message but you’d maintain their legitimate right to put that message across.

  • Harry Flashman

    Henry

    You forgot about the Rotary Club members, they were acting under direct orders from the Elders of Zion who as everyone now knows are in the mother ship hidden in the basement in Buckingham Palace, it’s a fact that Prince Philip is actually a giant lizard from the planet Zargon who uses top secret CIA technology invented at Roswell to hide his real identity and survives on a diet of Muslim babies that are brought to him by Opus Dei monks . . .

    Biffo

    Those vile anti-semitic cartoons are printed day in day out in the Middle East, but, and this is the fundamental point, they are not products of a free press but are in fact government propaganda used to suppress any anti-government discussion, so I in no way defend them.

    If on the other hand the press in the West wanted to publish these Jew demonising scribblings then I would totally support that, in fact I would go further and say the Jew hating Mid East cartoons SHOULD be published here in the West so that we can all see what we are up against.

    That’s what angers me about people demanding the ridiculous Mohammed cartoons shouldn’t be published because they offend Muslims. I say publish them and publish the filth emanating daily from Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Iran and Saudi Arabia so we can all get a proper perspective on what constitutes offensiveness in the eyes of Muslims.

    I think we could safely agree that in such circumstances the streets would not be full of goggle eyed, foam flecked Jews screaming for the murder of all and sundry. But then when we saw who the crazies are in the conflict between Muslims and Jews alot of people who campaign on the behalf of the Palestinians would have alot of explaining to do.

  • me

    how do they now what Muhammad lokks like when they don’t have a pic

  • Henry94

    Biffo

    Do you think the Nazi’s were right to publish derogatory cartoons about Jews in their newspapers?

    I agree with Harry’s reply.

  • The printing of everyone’s license regarding everything is just a prescription for chaos. It will just expand the ranks of the jihadists, and the neocons until the world is ablaze.

    People who advocate such a course are simply nuts – believing that there should be no limit to free expression and freedom of the press, as if this corrects its mistakes, just encourages everyone to become Abu Hamzas, Paul Wolfowitzes, suicide bombers, Western war stoppers, etc. ad nauseam.

    There should be limits to everything, including free expression. If you don’t believe so, just look at today’s new stories, tomorrow’s, the next day’s, etc.

  • Henry94

    Trowbridge

    It’s one thing to argue for limits to freedom of expression and in that case the burden of proof lies with the person proposing limits.

    But you are going well beyond that in arguing that a violent reaction makes the case for censorship. You are wrong to believe it in the first place and you are wrong to think it will have any effect.

    Cowering before radical Islam will not molify it but encourage it. The freedom of the west is under attack for the third time in 100 years. Did we see off fascism and communism to live under Shira law?

  • help

    I’m still dumbfounded that no-one thinks there is any relationship between this escalating now and the upcoming Iran invasion. Why are all the newspapers and websites filled with close ups of muslim mens faces contorted with Anger?

    Its a co-ordinated media manipulation to help create the conditions required for the invasion and take over of Iran and other key middle east countries, with puppet governments being installed to do the bidding of the us/uk/european agenda, as has already been seem in Afghanistan & Iraq.

    Cries of “barbaric muslims” is all I’m hearing from the civilised know alls, who really only know the story they are being fed from the mass media and are swallowing it unquestioningly, all the while calling anyone who deviates from the official line crazy.

  • Violent reactions of an increasingly general nature to provoking, offensive expressions of free speech and expression, Henry, justify censorship by someone if it can help resolve the problem. And not doing so in this case just promotes a general conflagration, not the danger of living under Shira law.

    In sum, it’s you who is overly scared but instead of doing things to reduce it, you just advocate things to make it worse.

  • Dualta

    Henry,

    [i]The freedom of the west is under attack for the third time in 100 years.[/i]

    You’re not serious are you? If so I find this comment extraordinary. I don’t often agree with you, but I acknowledge that you’re moreoften level headed in your views.

    This comment would be perfectly at home in a speech by Bush, Cheney or one of the other neocon thugs currently plotting the dominance of the world through war and slaughter.

  • felix quigley

    Like Henry and particularly Harry I am left in some wonder at how people on this site actually do support Islamofascism.

    I have to continually point out that Islamofascism is a political tendency inside the Muslim masses. It is very much equally the enemy of those Muslim masses. Just as Nazism was the enemy of the German masses. The German Nazis proved this when they took power and they butchered the German working class movement.

    Also I do take note of the role of the Irish neoLeft and the Republican movement in their craven support for the Palestine movement, which in its essence is an Islamofascist movement. This has led them on to be largely supportive of the Islamofascists in this cartoon affair, and they are showing this mostly by their silence.

    This kind of thing and I have watched it for many years has convinced me that the Irish republican movement and the Irish neoleft is corrupt in every way, but especially morally and politically.

    Has there been any clear support from the Irish republican press and any of the neoleft Irish groups in support of the right to publish these largely innocuous scribblings. Balrog has published something, but very very late in the day. And Balrog has taken at the same time another dig at Zionism.

    They were really so innocuous, and to be honest so puerile, that the Islamofascist Imans who took them on their pilgrimage to the Middle East had to insert 3 other cartoons which they must have written and drawn themselves.

    Of course, eventually the Irish republican press and the Neoleft will write something, and they will more or less oppose some of the cruder examples of Islamofascism, such as the threat to cut off heads etc.

    But they are still fellow travellers of this Islamofascist movement because they are fellow travellers of the Palestinian Islamofascists.

    We are dealing essentially with Islamofascism and a big part of the growth of Islamofascism has been how it has been protested by Dhimmi Europe. There are examples without end of this protection and encouragement, but above all the hostility of Europe to Israel and their support in every possible way for the Islamofascists of both Fatah and Hamas in what has become known as Palestine.

    The issue of the treacherous role of the Israeli leadership of Sharon and Olmert is a related but a different matter.

    And Europe is getting its just deserts. If the name Palestine and the concept of Palestine has become accepted it is due in no small measure to the efforts of PROVEN Nazi Kurt Waldheim and his stint of 5 years at the United Nations. The Europeans (every damned one of them including my own country Ireland) worked to elevate this Palestinian Islamofascist movement and to denigrate Israel at every point.

    The examples are many. The lies propagated at all levels on the Deir Yessin massacre lie, the Jenin massacre lie, the Muhammed el Dura France 2 Lie and the list goes on and on.

    In my opinion comeuppance time for Europe! And indeed I inwardly rejoice!

    Will Europe learn its lesson? Certainly not! This latest fracas will make them more subservient to Islamofascism. I would say Europe is finished! The Islamists have won. Europe is now a Dhimmi status area without question and a big part of this is that the neoLeft has become Palestinized and support Islamofascism.

  • felix quigley

    Joseph Alexander Norland who helped found Israpundit has sent an e-mail to the Danish Embassy in Ottawa. It contans these lines which amplify what I said above:

    “But my expression of solidarity is more than nullified by other steps taken by the Danish government over the years, steps that can best be summarized in one word: Dhimmitude.

    As a member of the EU, Denmark has been part of the systematic, political assault on Israel, as evidenced, for example, by Denmark’s voting record at the UN – every fall, year in and year out, you join the Arab/Moslem states in the hate-fest at the UN. You and your EUrabian partners hoped to gain points with the Arab/Moslem countries at the expense of democratic Israel – well, the proverbial chickens have come home to roost, and I can only rub my hands in profound and overt Schadenfreude.

    If you and your EUrabian partners learn the lesson from the recent Islamist tantrum, and correctly conclude that your place is in the same camp that supports Israel, the lesson shall not have been in vain. But frankly, Mr Ambassador, having examined the evidence presented in Bat Yeor’s tome, “Eurabia”, I have little hope that any such lesson shall be learned. Europe has become a collection of despicable Dhimmies, eager to appease and fund the Moslems, especially the terrorist among them; the flood of apologies issued to the Moslems in the wake of their recent tantrum is proof enough. ”

    Full text can be read on
    http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2006/02/my_oneway_corre.php

  • felix quigley

    There ARE extensive political links of support between the Irish republicans and the present Islamofascist movement internationally. They centre on their equal support of Palestinian terrorism and their unqualified hatred of Israel. This is the big unstated issue in Ireland of this cartoon affair.

    It is wider than Ireland though. As I argued above Europe as a whole is now a dhimmi super state. It is bending over backward to placate Islamofascism. I can see no European top elite in any country which is supporting without equivocation the freedom of the press and which is going on the offensive against Islamofascism.

    Wider than Ireland! Indeed!

    Just this Monday Feb 6 the Guardian has begun a HUGE series which depicts Israel as an aparteid state.

    It introduced it like this:

    “Yet even within Israel itself, accusations persist that the web of controls affecting every aspect of Palestinian life bears a disturbing resemblance to apartheid. After four years reporting from Jerusalem and more than a decade from Johannesburg before that, the Guardian’s award-winning Middle East correspondent Chris McGreal is exceptionally well placed to assess this explosive comparison. Here we publish the first part of his two-day special report “.

    As a reposte to this calumny The Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) has published this:

    • Did black South Africans have the right to full citizenship in apartheid South Africa? No
    • Are Israeli Arabs citizens with full rights? Yes

    • Did black South Africans have full political rights in apartheid South Africa? No
    • Do Arab citizens of Israel have full political rights, including voting rights and representation in the government? Arab citizens of Israel are full citizens with voting rights and representation in the government. There are currently 11 Israeli Arab and Druze MKs.

    • Did black South Africans have the right to pursue any type of education or employment they desired in apartheid South Africa? No
    •Do Arab citizens of Israel have the right to pursue any type of education of employment they choose in Israel? Yes

    •Did apartheid South Africa have segregated public transport? Yes
    •Does Israel have segregated public transport? No

    •Was there severe censorship of the press in apartheid South Africa? Yes
    •Is there complete freedom of speech and freedom of press in Israel? Yes

    •Who were the majority in apartheid South Africa? The black community
    •Who are the majority in Israel? The Jews

    Yet day in and day out we find in Ireland lies told about Israel. Balrog and people like that should answer those facts before they mouth off about Israel!

    As my next post will show these are the lies that the Islamofascist movement in Europe, and especially in Ireland and Britain, feed upon. The lies spread by the Guardian, ie the Guardian of Islamofascism. Who ever thinks that the Guardian is “Left”!

  • help

    yes felix, calm down.

    all arabs are bad and should be happy with their lot and israel is pure good and has never killed any children with helicopter gunships.

    we agree with you ok.

    and no, you dont sound like a raving anti-arab b1got, I swear.

  • felix quigley

    In this debate on the role of Islamofascism and its role today in the cartoon affair I draw readers attention to the Blog run by Melanie Phillips.

    Her piece is called “Britain’s lengthening shadow” and I include the first paragraph of a recent poll which is certainly pertinent to this discussion in Ireland. I would imagine that Irish Muslims would give the same dismal answers:

    “So now we can see the true extent of Muslim moderation in Britain. The Times today published the results of a Populus poll of British Muslims, commissioned by a coalition of Jewish community groups, which produced some truly terrifying findings for Britain’s Jews:

    Nearly two fifths (37 per cent) believe that the Jewish community in Britain is a legitimate target ‘as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East’. Moreover, only 52 per cent think that the state of Israel has the right to exist, with 30 per cent disagreeing, a big minority. One in six of all Muslims questioned thinks suicide bombings can sometimes be justified in Israel, though many fewer (7 per cent) say the same about Britain. This is broadly comparable to the number justifying suicide attacks in ICM and YouGov polls of British Muslims after the July 7 attacks… ”

    This is an absolutely staggering poll of opinion.

    If this poll is correct then the consequences in Britain and in Ireland in relation to anti-Israeli feelings (WHICH IS THE SAME IN THIS CONTEXT AS ANTI-SEMITISM) are very alarming.

    Melanie sums this aspect up like this:

    “There are officially 1.6 million Muslims and only about 300,000 identifying British Jews. If these findings are accurate – and this was a small poll of 500 Muslims – it would mean that around 600,000 British Muslims believed Britain’s 300,000 Jews were a ‘legitimate target’. ”

    This is also my answer to Balrog, (which if I remember really really hates Israel) that anti-Israeli positions are really antisemitic positions.

    That this kind of anti Israeli feeling, is at the same time anti Jewish and IS ANTISEMITISM in action is shown in this further comment she makes:

    “Furthermore, other findings showed that 53% believed British Jews had ‘too much influence over the direction of UK foreign policy’, and no fewer than 46% thought the Jewish community was ‘in league with Freemasons to control the media and politics’. ”

    I know that it is possible to denigrate polls. But at least there is the POSSIBILITY that there is deep anti-Semitism inside this Muslim polulation and that this is feeding into the Islamofascist movement.

    Note here as always I make a distinction between Muslims and Islamofascism. I do this because there are too many republican and neoleft fellow travellers of Islamofascism on these Irish sites all too ready to pounce. I am careful not to lump all Muslims under the term of Islamofascist.

  • help

    felix says:

    “I am careful not to lump all Muslims under the term of Islamofascist”

    but you are happy to go along with this utter tripe:

    “600,000 British Muslims believed Britain’s 300,000 Jews were a ‘legitimate target’”

    And you call anyone who disagrees with you antisemitic.

    your true colours are showing in a big way

  • Harry Flashman

    Help

    Felix was quoting from Melanie Philips who quite legitimately used data from a Times poll to gauge the number of Muslims in the UK who believe the British Jews are a legitimate target. If you can show that the poll numbers are incorrect then by all means do so, but on the basis of the poll results her figures are accurate.

    Actually I agree about your interpretation of a connection between Iran and this whole controversy though I’m bewildered as to how you come to the conclusion that somehow the Americans are the agents provocateurs.

    Let me see, you believe that the CIA convinced a small Danish newspaper to solicit cartoons of Mohammed in September 2005, they then got several Danish Imams to go on a tour of the Middle East and included a few cartoons that weren’t part of the original batch, the CIA then persuaded the Syrian and Iranian governments to whip up their peoples to attack the Danish embassies and also persuaded Hamas followers to attack the EU offices because. . . well why? Ok it makes the Muslims look bad but your thesis is based on the fact that Muslims are directionless robots who can only be programmed by the CIA, is that really your belief?

    The cartoons were published last year and no one but a couple of Danish imams were bothered about them. These imams did their damnedest to whip up a controversy and got no where for six months. Then suddenly it all explodes in organised attacks on the Danish embassies in Syria and Iran. The same week that Iran is ordered before the UN Security Council, when they appear the Chair of the Security Council will be the heretofore unremarkable nation of Denmark.

    Sure, I believe this is a deliberate attempt by dark forces to whip up anger at Denmark but the dark forces are not in the CIA, not by a long chalk, the ayatollahs deliberately created this one my friend, believe you me Muslim mobs take orders from ayatollahs long before they will listen to the CIA.

  • Henry94

    From Gulf Times:

    Popular Thai rapper Joey Boy and his songwriter yesterday apologised to Muslims over one of their songs containing verses from their holy book, and said the album would be withdrawn from the market. Joey Boy, whose real name is Abhisit Opasiemlikit, said he had no idea that the song, which was produced eight years ago, contained passages from the Muslim holy book.

    “I have sent a formal written apology to the Sheikhul Islam of Thailand (Muslim Spiritual Leader’s Office),” he said. At a press conference the spiky-haired singer repeatedly offered the Thai “wai” gesture of respect by pressing his palms together in front of his face…

    …Muslims for Peace group leader Mureed Temasen said Thailand’s minority Muslim community accepted the explanation from the rapper over the offending song Choey, which means “Stay Put”. “Joey Boy has formally apologised and recalled all CDs, which we consider to be a prompt reaction to our complaint. Otherwise, we were planning to mount protests against him,” he said.

  • Henry94

    “They want to test our feelings,” protester Mawli Abdul Qahar Abu Israra told the BBC.

    “They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers,” he said.

  • help

    Harry:

    “If you can show that the poll numbers are incorrect then by all means do so”

    the poll included only 500 people. That in itself tells me enough to know it cant be safely extrapolated across the population.

    I’m not saying the CIA has enough influence to control the muslim people outright, but they certainly have enough power and influence to whip people on both sides up into a frenzy at will.

    Your point about these pictures being around since last year (and causing little controversy at the time) proves this.

    Now that we are getting closer to the iran invasion, those in cotrol of the western mass media (same people who ultimately control the CIA) are suddely showing us on a daily basis, close up pictures of deranged muslims crying murder.

    The purpose of this is to implant in the minds of the western population that these people are barbarians and this in turn helps to create acceptance for the upcoming attack.

    The muslims world has been manipulated in a similar way, with stories circulating about koran’s being burned and defaced in western countries.

    We are all being played for fools by the murderous warmongering elite, who’s ultimate goal is to control the entire world militarily, economically and every other way you can think of.
    They dont care how many people of any country, colour or persuasion they have to wipe out to get there.

    check out this website. Dick Cheney is involved with this mental lot.

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/

    Pre 9/11, this lot were talking about the need for a “new pearl harbour” to act as a catalyst for their agenda.

    bush used that very term in the aftermath of 9/11.

  • Jill Robinson

    Help: “The purpose of this is to implant in the minds of the western population that these people are barbarians”

    What, you’re saying they are *not* barbarians? Islam is a danger to civilization. If you don’t believe this, look at how they view half of the world, i.e. the female half. And try to force your self to read the Koran, a mess of puerile nonsense invented by a guy chasing his own dick, i.e. seeking legitimacy for the taking of a score of wives. Oh did I mention he was a pedophile too? And we children of the Enlightenment are supposed to give this stuff equal time and respect?

  • help

    Jill, you like many other posters here are a case in point for how successful the media manipulation strategy has been.

    I fully agree with you on the barbarous aspects of the religion of islam, but all of the other religions are rooted in sililar barbarity, mysogeny and homophobia, and the koran is not the only holy book littered with racism and b1gotry, as I have already mentioned in an earlier post.

    But we in the western world have long since moved on to the far more effective “covert fascism” (under the illusion of freedom) while many muslim countries are still controlled by overt religious fascism.

    And both the muslim and western worlds are manipulated using the exact same thing (albeit in different forms) – fear.

  • Jill Robinson

    Help, you’re right about the other “holy” books but the Koran didn’t add anything to morals or ethics as did the Bible (tho I don’t believe in it at all). Jesus did not to my knowledge preach death to the infidel but the opposite. I’ve been the Muslim countries and I’ve seen at first hand what Islam is and what it does to people.

    Speaking of books, if you think Islam isn’t a threat try offering a book to a publisher now that’s critical of Islam. Or a play, an article or even, dare I say it, a cartoon 😉

  • DK

    Harry,

    I am astounded – I thought that this was all a sudden thing. But the fact that these cartoons were published a year ago and are only now causing a problem is too much of a coincidence when it is “the same week that Iran is ordered before the UN Security Council, when they appear the Chair of the Security Council will be the heretofore unremarkable nation of Denmark”.

    This is clearly a controversy whipped up to pressurise Denmark to show some sort of pro-Muslim behaviour. Only Iran can benefit from this, so Iran must have got the Muslim media going.

    Hats off to Harry for cutting through all the crud and getting to the source of the problem – an Iranian attempt to get themselves off the hook. So much for religion – hope the Danes have the balls to stand up to them.

  • Jill Robinson

    “Only Iran can benefit from this”

    Dream on, DK. Muslims everywhere are testing us to see how far our western tolerance will stretch. They see that only one or two European countries have the balls to stand up and be counted. Watch how they erode our civilization in the coming years. You can tell your grandkids you were in at the very start of the destruction.

  • foreign correspondent

    Let´s just ban all the destructive religions: principally Islam, Christianity, Consumerism, Neoliberalism, Militarism… (and I´m sure many more can be added to the list)

  • The real enemy: Men With Beards

  • Jill Robinson

    I don’t want to ban anything or anybody. I simply will not tolerate intolerance.

  • How can you assorted screwballs keep defending the offensive, provocative cartoons against Allah, Mohammad, and Muslims that this Danish periodical published when it previously refused to publish similar cartoons regarding Christianity and Christ?

    You people are pursuing your own political agenda to help the West’s neocons while proclaiming the unlimited freedom of speech and expression as a cover. Your behavior is despicable!

  • Jill Robinson

    If you say so. And I’ll cut off the head of anyone who denies you the right to say so. 🙂

  • Henry94

    Trowbridge

    How can you assorted screwballs keep defending the offensive, provocative cartoons against Allah, Mohammad, and Muslims that this Danish periodical published when it previously refused to publish similar cartoons regarding Christianity and Christ?

    You still don’t get it. It’s up to them what they publish. Or don’t publish.

  • Biffo

    Henry94 & Harry Flashman

    Can we have your comments on the conviction of Abu Hamza?

    You both have eloquently defended the right of the Danish press, in the interests of free speech, to publish cartoons which incite hatred of Islam.

    I would now expect you to criticise the British for convicting Abu Hamza on charges of incitement to racial hatred and incitement to murder. Remember – he was convicted for saying it – not doing it.

    I’m fairly confident that this issue will expose your previous arguments as confused and erroneous.

    Either that or you are both simply motivated by islamophobia.

    Which is it?

  • Henry94

    Biffo

    You both have eloquently defended the right of the Danish press, in the interests of free speech, to publish cartoons which incite hatred of Islam.

    This is a new claim. You think the cartoons incite hatred of Islam? I must have missed the reports of the Jyllands-Posten readers burning buildings and shooting people.

    The only people guilty of incitement in this case are the Islamofascists. It is their outrageous, criminal and opportunistic reaction that is the problem. There is no contrast with that and Abu Hamza. It’s all part of the same disease.

    I reject the suggestion that supporting the right of a magazine to publish some cartoons makes me a free-speech fanatic obliged to support any extreme example you can think of. In a democracy the balance of rights is decided by society as a whole.

    Abu Hamza broke the law passed by a democratic parliament. He was charged, received a fair trial and was sentenced. He can have no complaint and I certainly don’t.

  • Biffo

    Henry94

    “This is a new claim..” No it isn’t, it’s the issue at hand, the one that has caused all the trouble and the one you are studiously ignoring.

    “I must have missed the reports of the Jyllands-Posten readers burning buildings and shooting people.”

    You must also have missed the reports of Jyllands-Posten apologising. Why did they do that?

    “The only people guilty of incitement in this case are the Islamofascists.”

    Absolute rubbish, the Islamofascists reacted.

    The right-wing anti-immigration, islamophobic nit-wits at Jyllands-Posten are the ones guilty of incitement. They were trying to incite fear of Muslims they bizarrely didn’t expect the reaction

    Your only logic here seems to be that if someting provokes a violent reaction from islamofascists it must be good thing.

    What about the massacre at Srebrenica? That inspired a lot of anti-western, misguided militant jihadis? A good days work in your opinion.

    “I reject the suggestion that supporting the right of a magazine to publish some cartoons makes me a free-speech fanatic obliged to support any extreme example you can think of.”

    “Some offensive cartoons”, and don’t worry, I never thought for a moment that you were defending free speech to the idiotic extent that you claimed. No rational person could.

    “Abu Hamza broke the law passed by a democratic parliament. He was charged, received a fair trial and was sentenced. He can have no complaint and I certainly don’t”

    Yes he got his just desserts and I knew you’d be inconsistent on that one (albeit Abu Hamza’s crimes were much more serious than Jyllands-Posten).

    I knew you’d be inconsistent in light of your opinion that the witholding of public money shouldn’t be used used as a political weapon against Mairtín Ó Muilleoir but it should be used against the Palestinian Authority.

    Claiming and spreading the message that islam = terrorism is unfair and there should be no place in a democracy for that kind of fear-mongering rubbish.

  • Jill Robinson

    Go Henry go!

  • Harry Flashman

    Biffo

    If I come to your house to threaten you or your family with murder, I am breaking the law, pure and simple, threatening violence against fellow citzens has never been an acceptable example of free speech.

    If I draw a silly cartoon of you and show it to my mates well guess what, that is an acceptable example of free speech.

    There that wasn’t too complicated now was it?

  • Dualta

    Harry,

    [i]If I draw a silly cartoon of you and show it to my mates well guess what, that is an acceptable example of free speech.[/i]

    If you draw a racist, Islamophobic cartoon and publish it in a national newspaper, guess what, that’s an example of an abuse of free speech.

  • Henry94

    Biffo

    You must also have missed the reports of Jyllands-Posten apologising. Why did they do that?

    They were trying to be responsible. They were trying to be reasonable. They were trying to defuse a situation.

    If their intention was to offend as you claim why the attempt to molify the fanatics.

    I never thought for a moment that you were defending free speech to the idiotic extent that you claimed.

    I’m defending free speech as it has always been understood in a democracy.

  • Henry94

    biffo

    Yes he got his just desserts and I knew you’d be inconsistent on that one (albeit Abu Hamza’s crimes were much more serious than Jyllands-Posten).

    Let’s be clear. Abu Hamza was guilty of a crime. The magazine editor was not. So the issue of the relative seriousness of crimes does not arise.

  • felix quigley

    For me this has been an interesting and productive debate.

    I would like to make these points:

    1. That there are so many posts shows the hunger in Ireland to discuss this phenomenon of Islamofascism.

    2. The near silence of the Republican movement and of the neoLeft on the issue.

    3. The fact that this debate shows that the reactionary politics of the Irish neoleft and the parochial and also reactionary politics of Irish republicanism can be challenged here and have been challenged here.

    The main issue is whether Islamofascism is a really fascist movement or not.

    I personally have been most careful to point out that it IS a fascist tendency inside the Muslim masses.

    Islamofascism is also a great danger to the ordinary Muslim poor and oppressed. NOBODY took me up on that point!

    The survey poll referred to by Melanie Phillips shows that this Islamofascism is connected to Anti-Semitism inside the Muslim masses in Britain and presumably also in Ireland.

    It was a poll of only 500 Muslims. Phillips stated this clearly.

    This guy Fair repeated that it was only 500, like the proverbial parrot. But he did not say that he learned this fact from Phillips. The man called Fair is a fraud!

    And it took me only about 2 of his first sentences to know that Fair is really a political weirdo. He argued that it was all a CIA plot. Demolished totally by H and H.

    As far as I can see the Irish republicans are hiding away. eg Danny Morrison, nothing on his site. I checked Nuzhound, no statements from Sinn Fein.

    (As regards Trowbridge I cannot leave without emphasising I really do not wish to debate with somebody who blames Rushdie for the Fatwa placed on his head by Islamofascism.)

    What does this mean? I think it means that they (The Irish republicans of Adams and the neoLeft in Ireland) are sympathetic to Islamofascism.

    On the point I began with: Mick Fealty WAS very late with this entry.

    Still he has done it and what a discussion! There is now on SluggerOtoole a number of people who are obviously determined to answer the Irish republican and neoleft lies about Israel and to expose their support for Islamofascism.

    Mick faces a choice. Either his site disappears into the rotten cesspool of republican and neoleft politics with lots of reactionary sociological tripe thrown in as a cover. Or a real discussion on the vital political and international issues of the day takes place.

    So bring it on Mick! You will certainly NOW have a debate on these issues.

    I do not mean that the site here changes totally. But I have seen so MANY lies about Israel spread inside Ireland. And for a very long time! Surely time to open some of this up here on SluggerOtoole. Why not!

  • help

    Felix, I presume by “fair”, you mean me.

    based on your comments (the ball) I can only deduce that your position is not unlike that of a dangerous racist nutter who has absolutely no tolerance for any viewpoint that differs from his own.

    And I note that neither you nor H or H made any response to my points about the deeply sinister “project for the new american century” which involves the current american vice president and which produced documents back in 2000 that seemed to chillingly foretell of events such as 9/11, afghanistan, iraq and the upcoming iran invasion, events which it said were vital to the progression of its agenda.

    So you have not by any means blown the CIA point out of the water.

    It seems to be a common trait among extremist nutters to conveniently ignore any evidence that does not back up their own warped position.

    who is a political weirdo?

  • felix quigley

    As Duada said at the beginning the cartoons were racist. Really, so racist they were featured where you would NEVER believe.

    Well latest news, let me be first, is that these cartoons were published in a leading Egyptian newspaper ages ago and not a peep from the Islamofascists.

    Yes I did say Egypt.

    Turn to the pages of that oh so wonderful monkey, my most favorites monkey in the wholest widest world

    http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/02/boycott-egypt.html

    Now I would imagine that this should put a complete end to the reactionary mouthings of Fair and the others on this site. Now why do you not SHUT UP!

  • felix quigley

    And Yasmina (or Jess) on that site on hearing the news was very disturbed

    “At 12:33 PM, Yasmina or Jess said…
    Ok in all seriousness now.. I thought that this shouldn’t have been reprinted because of how disrespectful it was.. I thought this was a disgrace to Islam..Why would any Egyptian newspaper reprint something like this get away with it.. As a Muslim girl I am offended..How dare they dishonor my prophet..Its bad enough the Infidels and the Jews disrespect my great religion how dare the Egyptians my own people reprint such horror.. I demand and apology..I want the person that reprinted this killed immediately..Hang him in the middle of Midan Tharir while your on it blow up the whole building that the newspaper was printed in anyone that works there and doesn’t quit is a sell out and a traitor kill em I say!…I want a boycott on all Egyptian Cotton and anything else Egyptian..I’m throwing out my sheets as we speak…I’m so ashamed.. How dare they…

    If Mubarak doesn’t give and official apology I want something done with him..Oh the horror…

    Can I get some stock on Egyptian flags?I think some of them need burning in the near future..:”

  • felix quigley

    Ah Fair, better to just ignore your name-calling.

    I have been so careful to point out that Islamofascism is a TENDENCY, albeit a fascist tendency, inside the Muslim masses. It is NOT the Muslim masses. You cannot take that aboard. I do hope 99.9 per cent of readers can though.

    Remember, ONE Fascist Tendency! Not the WHOLE!

    Islamofascism is the ENEMY of the Muslim masses!

  • help

    neo-con fascism as espoused (albeit covertly) bythose who control israel and its western partners in crime, is the enemy of the muslim world and indeed the entire world.

  • Henry94

    help

    You appear to use the term fascism to describe people you disagree with. Felix is making a rational case for the concept of Islamofascism.

    If you have an intelligent counter-argument you should make it because claiming we all live under fascism (albeit covertly) is refuted by the fact that we are having this free discussion.

  • help

    Henry, the illusion of freedom is the most powerful weapon of covert fascism. And by the way, if the bush adminstration gets its way on internet monitoring and censorship, we soon wont have the freedom to talk freely on forums like this if the views expressed or material discussed are deemed unacceptable to the powers that be.

    Felix’s arguments to me seem to be based on his vitriolic dislike of muslims and his self enforced blindness to the crimes of the israeli government and its western cohorts.

    On the one hand he is saying that its islamofascism that he hates and not the muslims themselves, but on the other he is willing to concur with ridiculous assertions that the majority of british muslims have murderous intentions towards the british jews. To me, this example along with others in his postings reveal his only thinly veiled b1gotry.

    henry have you any comments on the project for the new american century?

  • help

    has anyone any views on the project for the new american century and its relevance to what has been going on in the middle east over the last number of years to date?

  • Felix Quigley

    Well it would be a pity if this issue was waylaid by Fair.

    For the hundredth time I see Islamofascism as the enemy also of the Muslim masses. The memory of the Iranian (Muslim) woman buried up to her neck in sand by Men (Men?) remains on my mind. First to publish it in Ireland was NOT a republican and you would think it might be, but a Northern Protestant man, David Vance.

    I differ from many on the Israeli side. I see Islamofascism directed as a method of control very much against the Muslim masses.

    Of course when Jewish men and women hear me say that they listen carefully. Now they do not start attacking me as a racist or anything like that. There is a lot at stake for them in discussing these issues. And there is democracy.

    Back to my last post, the publication of these cartoons in a paper in Egypt during the month of Ramadan last October. No outcry! What does this mean?

    It could mean among many things that it is the publication of the cartoons by infidels, by dhimmis in a small state like Denmark, that has done the damage.

    It raises very very big issues about the question of Islamofascism and the historical role as well of Islam inside the masses of poor Muslims.

    It is one thing to attack the US and we all know the US and the EU does have hidden agendas. We know that. Every person in politics knows that.

    But in these posts Fair and others are providing a cover for Islamofascism and also Fair is attacking Israel and making slurs against Israel and I just wonder what his real agenda is. He seems awfully like a mamber of the Palestine Solidarity Group or somebody very close to them. But we will deal with them on another occasion.

  • Biffo

    Harry flashman

    “If I draw a silly cartoon of you and show it to my mates well guess what, that is an acceptable example of free speech.”

    If you publish a cartoon portraying me as a terrorist I’ll sue you for slander and defamation.

    Henry94

    “They were trying to be responsible. They were trying to be reasonable. They were trying to defuse a situation.”

    Exactly, they were made to be responsible for their actions, which were stupid and offensive.

    They were wrong to do what they did and they admitted it, although the apology had to be forced out of them. They initially refused point blank and they rejected any dialogue with leaders of the muslim community in Denmark and diplomatic staff from other Islamic countries. That is the kind of stupid arrogant islamophobic arseholes they are.

    “If their intention was to offend as you claim why the attempt to molify the fanatics.”

    Ever heard the phrase – “If you can’t stand the heat – get out of the kitchen”?

    They aimed to offend and they did offend – everybody, not just fanatics, the cartoons weren’t aimed at fanatics they were aimed at islam and they were offensive.

    You can continue to talk a load of b1goted shite because you won’t be made answerable for it, but they can’t. Their actions were incredibly dumb and they’ve had to apologise – and rightly so.

    “Let’s be clear. Abu Hamza was guilty of a crime. The magazine editor was not. So the issue of the relative seriousness of crimes does not arise.”

    Let’s be clear about what? You’re not being clear. Are you saying someone has to be convicted before anyone else can claim they did something wrong? Or are you saying that when someone is convicted we can no longer talk about what they did wrong?

  • Henry94

    Biffo

    You are losing the run of yourself

    stupid arrogant islamophobic arseholes

    This from someone trying to make a case against the publication of offensive material.

    the apology had to be forced out of them

    You are justifying the carnage and death as necessary. Have you ckecked out the link felix posted showing the cartoons printed in an eqyptian newspaper. It makes liars out of the protesters and idiots out of their apologists.

    You can continue to talk a load of b1goted shite

    I guess that gives me the right to burn down your house. Or at least boycott waffles.

  • help

    felix, as I’ve already stated, I do not support islam or any other religion, I find them all abhorent.

    Can I ask, would you be for or against an invasion of Iran if resolution or agreement to the current nuclear dispute cannot be reached?

  • Jill Robinson

    Aaaii, they’re infecting NBiffo and some others now, or is that the famous (Ulster)Scots dourness? I tell you, if the Muslims don’t acquire a sense of humor real soon then none of us is safe in our cities, our towns, our offices, our homes, our airplanes, our cars, our subways etc. Maybe Jackie Mason or Larry David could help them out?

  • And I say, Jill Robinson, if you don’t get some sense of reality, and draw back from you extreme position, you are going off to the looney bin, and the West will ultimately go down the drain for pursuing this stupid position about so-called freedom of speech and expression when it just feeds more terrorism.

  • Jill Robinson

    Ah right, T.H.F., I’m the one with the extremist position am I? How very interesting. And there I was thinking I had a sense of humor and could laugh at myself, others, religions, gods, devils, death, war, and anything else we humans are capable of. Now you’re telling me my laughter is feeding terrorism? Wow. How did we get here?

  • Henry94

    If freedom of expression feeds terrorism then why are the terrorists so opposed to it? Because freedom, art, laughter are all the enemies of absolutists and the antidotes to propaganda.

    Jill,

    Larry David. Good choice.

  • Biffo

    Henry94

    “You are losing the run of yourself”

    I’m actually being quite restrained. If you go to the trouble of finding out how these events unfolded you realise what a bunch of brain-dead, xenophobic, shit-stirers the people at Jyllands-Posten really are.

    “This from someone trying to make a case against the publication of offensive material.”

    LOL, you think my judgement on the people at Jyllands-Posten undermines my own argument. Hardly. It’s based on particular individuals and something they actually did. Whereas you feel qualified to judge 1.3 billion muslims on the actions of, well, some of them.

    “You are justifying the carnage and death as necessary…”

    No i’m not, you are talking complete shite.

    “Have you ckecked out the link felix posted showing the cartoons printed in an eqyptian newspaper. It makes liars out of the protesters and idiots out of their apologists…”

    No I didn’t check Felix’s link previously. Felix is a Judeofascist. I tend to give up about two lines into any of his rants. But I checked his link just now, as you seem to think it’s worth it.

    Guess what? It’s in Arabic. Neither you nor Felix have the slightest idea what the article actually says.

    Guess what else? It’s no scoop, it’s old news.

    If you want to find out how the cartoons came to appear in an Egyptian newspaper read this – it’s written in a language you can actually understand:

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-europe_islam/cartoons_3242.jsp

  • Neal

    If anybody wants to look at what is being written on this on any of the Irish republican and neoleft sites they will find nothing is being written. ie they are supporting the Islamofascists. Silence is always eloquent!

    Felix, why are you always so quick to make accusations? I looked on your site and I don’t see anything written about churches being burned in Alabama. Does that mean that you support the burning of churches?

  • While my first e-mail in support of what Neal claimed has been scrubbed – does this augur a new policy about such matters? – I just wanted to add that there was no silence on the Republican Bulletin Board about what its resident Islamophobe, Ron Kenan, was claiming, as I wrote a long denunciation of his dangerous hypocrisy.