Recruitment Row

It is reported in the Irish News that as part of the drive to increase Garda numbers by 2,000, the requirement for Irish may be dropped in order to allow more diversity.

  • Rebecca Black

    I think its a great idea, get more gards from minority communities.

    Also reduces the likihood to hearing ulster scots people starting a campaign to get ulster scots a requirement for the PSNI in their little sectarian/political tit for tat game with Irish.

  • Davros

    I think it is an excellent move as well Rebecca.
    Direct and Indirect compulsion has done the language no favours IMO.

  • peteb

    That’s a rather strained point, Rebecca.. it only works, in terms of ‘parity of esteem’ if the Irish language was a requirement for the PSNI.. perhaps you meant Garda?

    But will it apply to all other EU (including the UK) citizens, I wonder? Perhaps that’s what has Sinn F

  • Gerry O’Sullivan

    We have to look at this from a number of angles. Pearse Doherty is taking the ideological route – Gaeilge is the first official language as laid down in the constitution, therefore all servants of the state must be capable of performing their duties through the medium of Gaeilge.

    However, we have to look at another angle. We need more Garda

  • peteb

    Except, Gerry, there are certain aspects of the Irish Constitution that Sinn F

  • Davros

    and how was your tax disc Gerry ? πŸ˜‰

    “After all, most Garda

  • Gerry O’Sullivan

    Davros

    and how was your tax disc Gerry ? πŸ˜‰

    I was on the ‘Jerry Lee’ at the time πŸ˜‰

  • Davros

    How expensive is that thing ? How does it compare with other forms of public Travel ?

  • Jonathan McCullough

    I am sure that Sinn Fein and the SDLP will be pleased by this move and will also endorse a move whereby future gardai recruits will be brought in on the basis of 50% Protestant and 50% other in a move to bring parity of esteem to a section of society which has felt unwelcome working in policing in the past.

  • barnshee

    The stste is simply starting the process of protecting itself from claims of “discrimination” spurious or otherwise from people who view the irish language with disdain or worse. Incidentally it also highlights the stupidity of unionists who whined on about the republics claim to N Ireland. With that claim in place the opportunities for mischief making and point scoring were endless- Prod applies for job ruled out -because of lack of Irish –off then to every court in the land + europe -repeat ad nausem

  • Keith M

    Like so much of McDowell’s agenga as Minister of Justice (taking on prison officers on overtime, ensuring we have an immigration system that works) this is just common sense.

    Why on earth would someone working as a policeman in Dublin need Irish Gaelic? You can walk the length and breath of the city without ever hearing it being spoken. In the meantime you have probably heard 30-40 other languages.

    We need to recruit members of the immigrant community as Garda

  • George

    Jonathon,
    “to bring parity of esteem to a section of society which has felt unwelcome working in policing in the past.

    I assume you believe southern Protestants should be press ganged into the Garda Siochana because that’s the only way you’ll get any numbers to join. It’s a bit low down the value chain I’m afraid.

    Why give up the 100k a year job in the law library, which is disproportionally Protestant, putting away criminals to start plodding the beat trying to apprehend them for less than half of that?

  • George

    On the Irish point,
    does this mean drunken Irish teenagers on their way home can’t speak or give their name in Irish to take the Michael?

  • Davros

    What’s the Irish Version of WASP ? WASC?

    Most Garda I have seen seem to be White and Male and with the same apparent fondness for “going large” as our PSNI.

  • maca

    … one* thing the Garda

  • George

    I don’t see how easing application requirements will improve the quality of applicant. Why would the country’s best and brightest sign up for such
    a job when they can earn more in virtually every other private sector position?

    McDowell knows damn well the only way he’ll get 2,000 new Gardai in a country with full employment is if he eases the entry requirements to allow all and sundry in.

    Anyway, it’s the working of and accountability of the force itself that needs to be changed more than the quality of applicant.

    Davros,
    WCGC (White Celtic Gael Catholic)?

  • Davros

    Well George, if we worried about the Irish Churches ( setting aside that Baptist who was concerned about men marrying Canines – worded carefully so as to not give maca chance to make wisecracks!), the Scotsman today puts things into perspective!

  • George

    Yikes davros,
    maybe that’s why Ireland is concentrating on getting good Catholic Poles in
    all yours maca πŸ˜‰

    Having seen only one Dublin Garda in my life I liked Brendan Behan’s description of Garda recruitment worked in the auld days.

    Lured from the mountains with raw meat…

  • Davros

    Behan Had a way with Words πŸ™‚

    “Just out of the bogs and already upto their arse’s in angst” !

    Now , some of those Finnish WPCs ….

  • George

    Or how about the Estonian Foreign Affairs Minister Kristiina Ojuland?

    Dermot Ahern’s eyes nearly popped out his head when he was introduced to her on his first day in Brussels.

  • Davros

    Scuttles off to (Go)ogle Kristiina Ojuland !

  • Davros

    Blimey! No wonder Eoin O Broin chose going to Europe over sitting looking at Sammy Wilson πŸ˜‰

  • Davros

    Here’s a thought: Why not compromise?

    Recruits don’t need to have any Irish as an entry requirement, but receive Irish Language lessons as part of their training.

  • barnshee

    “Why give up the 100k a year job in the law library, which is disproportionally Protestant”

    How many in law library?

    How can less that 5% of a population be “disproportional”?

  • George

    Davros,
    not a bad idea or maybe something along the lines of the Law Society’s recommendation for removing the Irish language requirement for all barristers, namely that there be a list of barristers available that have Irish proficiency.

    We could have at least one Garda in every station who has passed the proficiency test. Maybe give them a few bob extra for doing the test. Hell, they get paid more for carrying a gun so why not for learning a language. Why not also a few bob more if they know Chinese, Russian, Polish etc?

    Kristiina is a Minister at 36. I’m off to learn Estonian and start a political career there. Any committee will do if that’s the standard πŸ™‚

    Barnshee,
    The percentage of Protestants barristers in the Dublin Law Library is disproportionate to their percentage in the general population.

  • willowfield

    Hard to believe the South still has a Gaelic language requirement in the 21st century!

  • George

    What’s so hard to believe Willowfield,

    it’s an official language of the country, along with English of course. If we want to get rid of it as an official language we can all demand a referendum. We do have the democratic power to change this if we wanted to but we don’t as we don’t think it very enlightened to throw two thousand years of heritage on the slackheap because it’s not “21st Century” enough for a few monoglots’ liking.

    It certainly hasn’t affected our economic performance or development as a nation.
    If you ask me, what’s really hard to believe is that after over 80 years of existence, Northern Ireland has singularly failed to provide accountable and democratic government that delivers for its citizens.
    Instead it is the most subsidized region in Western Europe. But heh, why worry about that when you can look south and carp on about Ireland’s decision to have two official languages.
    I suppose one can do that when someone else is paying the bills.

  • maca

    Such a silly comment Willowfield!!

  • maca

    Kristiina Ojuland? Lads, ye need glasses, badly!!

    And why look to Estonia when you have people like Maris Perry at home?? πŸ˜‰

  • willowfield

    George

    What’s so hard to believe Willowfield,

    The fact that there is a Gaelic language requirement to join the Southern Irish police.

    it’s an official language of the country, along with English of course. If we want to get rid of it as an official language we can all demand a referendum. We do have the democratic power to change this if we wanted to but we don’t as we don’t think it very enlightened to throw two thousand years of heritage on the slackheap because it’s not “21st Century” enough for a few monoglots’ liking.

    Don’t see how the fact that it’s an official language means its necessary for it to be a qualification for joining the police.

  • Davros

    The more I think about it, the more sensible it seems. No Irish language requirement which is after all going to appear exclusionary BUT a compulsory Irish language course which is going to be both inclusive and help spread the language. After all, there will be some facility I assume to provide Irish language training for members of the PSNI who will eventually be part of a cross-border police department ?

  • Davros

    Scuttles off to (go)ogle Maris Perry

  • Davros

    Who Maris Perry ?

  • George

    Willowfield,
    it’s everyone’s constitutional right to do their state business through Irish, this includes dealings with an Garda Siochana. This is why there is currently a compulsory Irish requirement, which is the easiest way to meet constitutional requirements.

    We never needed to look at this before as everyone did Irish in school and we didn’t have immigration. But times are changing and so are we so it makes sense to offer those in our country not proficient in the Irish language the opportunity to work with the police. Why they would want to is beyond me but anyway.

    There will still be Gardai available to address this constitutional need I assume (otherwise there will be an immediate legal challenge) but as we have the advantage of having two official languages we can ask those applying from over the border and our new immigrant population to show proficiency in English, which is sufficient for over 95%% of the work.

    Thus their rights and the rights of those people who want to use the Irish language are both met. The economy won’t collapse over this and the 21st century will carry on unperturbed.

    I assume one has to be able to speak English (the only official language in NI) to join the PSNI or would experience in gesticulating wildly and playing charades suffice?

    Maca,
    in the world of Ministerial politics, she would be considered a babe. Not as pretty as Liz O’Donnell in her day but she never made it to Minister status. I don’t know Maris Perry. Picture link please.

  • George

    Marie Parry!?! Were you looking at her while typing?
    That 22-year-old Green GAA playing girl discussed at length here before. A fine looker without a doubt but hold judgement until 14 years down the line when she’s 36 and has been a Minister for a while and see if she lights up Noel’s eyes as Kristiina did.

  • Davros

    “We never needed to look at this before as everyone did Irish in school and we didn’t have immigration.”

    Not “strictly” true of the past George – a sizeable chunk of the people of what was claimed as the Irish National Territory didn’t do Irish in School- and there has always been immigration, the only difference is the numbers involved.

  • Davros

    She must have been discussed before I found Slugger.
    I did find a mention of her, in respect of candidacy for EU election, in the Irish Examiner –
    typically they focused on her status as a single mother.

  • maca

    Sorry Davros, Marie Perry!!! Thank for the correction George.
    It’s hard to fantasise AND type at the same time.

  • barnshee

    george
    “The percentage of Protestants barristers in the Dublin Law Library is disproportionate to their percentage in the general population.”

    Under N Ireland rules this is a clear case of discrimation-what is being done about it?

  • willowfield

    barnshee

    “The percentage of Protestants barristers in the Dublin Law Library is disproportionate to their percentage in the general population.”

    Under N Ireland rules this is a clear case of discrimation-what is being done about it?

    Not so. The fact that there is a disproportionate number of barristers of one religion does not mean there is illegal discrimination. It is perfectly possible – indeed, likely – that illegal discrimination played no role in each person’s appointment.

    Equality legislation makes discrimination illegal and means people should be appointed on merit. It does not mean that the religious make-up of every profession has to mirror that of the general population.

  • Davros

    Using banshee’s reasoning, that there are next to no protestants involved in running SF(NI) or the GAA(NI)- compared to them being over 50% of population – must surely prove that those organisations are guilty of discrimination ?