“Non-conformist republican groups” merge under banner of the “IRA”

Under the banner of the “IRA”, the Real IRA, Republican Action Against Drugs (RAAD) as well as smaller groups often referred to as Óglaigh na hÉireann have formed a “unified structure under a single leadership”. They will be “subservient to the constitution of the Irish Republican Army”. Only the Continuity IRA remains outside the new partnership.

Up to now politicians have tended to belittle the dissident threat, pointing to its fragmentation. Consolidated factions under a single brand will surely raise worries about recruitment and the new group’s collective capacity for terror.

The new group issued a statement to the Guardian’s Henry McDonald who posted an article online this evening:

In its statement, the new group said: “In recent years the establishment of a free and independent Ireland has suffered setbacks due to the failure among the leadership of Irish nationalism and fractures within republicanism” – a reference to the divisions between hardline republicans opposed to the peace settlement and Sinn Féin which has followed a political strategy. Martin McGuinness of Sinn Féin, Northern Ireland’s deputy first minister, was a leading figure in the Provisional IRA.

In a clear dig at Sinn Féin’s participation in the power-sharing executive with unionists, the dissidents’ statement said: “The Irish people have been sold a phoney peace, rubber-stamped by a token legislature in Stormont.”

It said that the “necessity of armed struggle in pursuit of Irish freedom” against what it described as “the forces of the British crown” would only be avoided by the removal of the British military presence in Northern Ireland. It demanded “an internationally observed timescale that details the dismantling of British political interference in our country”.

It also attacked the Northern Ireland secretary, Owen Paterson, over the arrest of several key republican figures, referring to him as an “overlord”. “Non-conformist republicans are being subjected to harassment, arrest and violence by the forces of the British crown; others have been interned on the direction of an English overlord. It is Britain, not the IRA, which has chosen provocation and conflict.”

Henry McDonald was driven out of Derry, over the border and left near a disused farmhouse.

Another vehicle pulled up. A man I had never seen before got out and handed over a typed statement revealing that the Real IRA, Republican Action Against Drugs and an amalgam of other disparate armed republican groups, were coalescing into a single unified force.

After the contents of the statement were taken on a notepad the communiqué was burned at the side of the road. There were no mobile phones or recording devices allowed at this bizarre encounter. The digital era is perceived as posing new threats to the security of terror groups in Ireland in terms of their being tracked and covertly recorded.

The only digital recording device was his pencil.

, , , , ,

  • Mister_Joe

    In an unconfirmed related report, it has been revealed that one of the people in the car with McDonald is a paid British agent. His name is being withheld for obvious reasons.

  • harpo

    “After the contents of the statement were taken on a notepad the communiqué was burned at the side of the road. There were no mobile phones or recording devices allowed at this bizarre encounter. The digital era is perceived as posing new threats to the security of terror groups in Ireland in terms of their being tracked and covertly recorded.”

    Not noted is the fact that the paper and ink era has posed problems for the IR clowns as well. As we see in this incident the statement that was typed on paper was burned.

    The man who handed it over was obviously scared that he’d end up like Marian Price. She got into trouble for helping an IR terrorist with his piece of paper.

    It’s good to see that these IR clowns are even scared of paper and ink.

  • harpo

    “In an unconfirmed related report, it has been revealed that one of the people in the car with McDonald is a paid British agent. His name is being withheld for obvious reasons.”

    MJ:

    Let’s hope so.

    The sooner these clowns are dealt with the better.

  • sonofstrongbow

    It appears that Losers Inc are at least conforming to their forerunners modus operandi. At the same time as they threaten murder and mayhem they gurn because the Big Bad Brits counter their lethal nonsense.

    Liked the “Overlord” touch. Did they say the word in a Ming the Merciless deep gravely voice stylee?

    Btw, it just had to be the feckin Guardian colluding in this border pantomime.

  • michael-mcivor

    The reals and raad just want to ditch their names which they are embarrassed over-the prove of the pudding is if they keep the 32 county sovereignty political name or make a clean break and get a new name- they are going political you know-

  • Mister_Joe

    If they are “going political” and ditching their violence, that is a good thing. Apart from anything else, it will let them know how much support they have.

  • Joe,
    It is a mistake to underestimate these “Clowns”. They need to be confronted, engaged with and left in no doubt as to their position within the broader republican community. To dismiss them is a mistake.

  • Mister_Joe

    Bangordub,

    Agree. But, although some may be naive “clowns”, others amongst them are very dangerous and those that have committed crimes need to be hunted down and brought to justice.

  • jthree

    Hope this one stands up for Henry as it got a bit embarrassing for him when his big number on the Derry punishment attacks ended up in the corrections column on two occasions. Which came shortly after he fingered the dissidents for a murder which was a straight forward drug dealer fallout.

  • Mister_Joe

    jthree,

    Are you suggesting that dissidents (and their equivalents on the other side?) would have nothing to do with drug dealing? Honest, Guv, nothing to do wiv us.

  • Fergie Pie

    Time for Provisional Sinn Fein and other pro-GFA Irish nationalists to put their money where their mouth is.

    Turning a blind eye to these characters and their activities is no longer good enough.

    Nationalists must start genuinely working with the police to arrest, convict and jail these criminals to get them off the streets. Unionists and the security forces can only do so much – it is the people who see these dissidents on a daily basis in their communities who can tell the police what they are up to.

  • In an unconfirmed related report, it has been revealed that one of the people in the car with McDonald is a paid British agent. His name is being withheld for obvious reasons.

    MJ:

    Let’s hope so.

    The sooner these clowns are dealt with the better. … harpo 26 July 2012 at 11:14 pm

    In an unconfirmed related report, it has been revealed that all of the people in the cars are paid British agents. Their names being withheld and unknown for obvious operational reasons. …… is another possible version and revision, harpo.

    Such would then be in sympathy with this hard-to-deny-is-perfectly-true expressed Dodgy Geezer view …..

    Alas, Mr Martian, you do not quite understand the complexities of the relationships between the various intelligence agencies. Let me elucidate:

    1 – Your agency only has budget – indeed, only exists – so long as there is a threat.

    2 – For reliably continuing existence, the threat needs to be of a kind which cannot EVER be eradicated.

    3 – Other intelligence agencies have exactly the same problem of maintaining their existence in an era of budget cuts

    4 – If you all agree to threaten each other, therefore, you are ensuring a continuing job and a nice pension at the end of it…

    As an aside, since the job is ‘very secret’, it is by definition never audited. So what you actually DO is pretty irrelevant… ….. http://forums.theregister.co.uk/post/1489422

    And a Classic Enigmatic Colossus of Titanic Proportions for Loughside Holywood Studios ReRendering with SMARTR Hollywood Blockbuster Type Media AIReProgramming?!.

  • jthree

    Joe, I’m suggesting nothing of the sort but in the relevant case Henry had the dissidents in the frame whereas the Crown case is that it was members of a ‘well known’ Belfast family

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17269210

  • PaddyReilly

    Nationalists must start genuinely working with the police to arrest, convict and jail these criminals to get them off the streets.

    Under the terms of the GFA, responsibility for arresting criminals remains with the Northern Ireland Police Service, convicting them with the Crown Prosecution Service and jailing them with Her Majesty’s Prison Service.

    A conference has been held in a car, presumably because the traditional venue of a telephone box was not available. It is not apparent if any crime has been committed.

  • carl marks

    Fergie Pie
    Nationalists must start genuinely working with the police to arrest, convict and jail these criminals to get them off the streets. Unionists and the security forces can only do so much – it is the people who see these dissidents on a daily basis in their communities who can tell the police what they are up to.
    In complete agreement with you but could I suggest a few slight changes which would make it perfect, change the word “Nationalist” to all politicians, and remove the word Unionist, (after all loyalists are making trouble as well and unionism really can’t lecture anybody until they come to grips with that problem), apart from that they (the disses) can call themselves anything they want they will still be Assholes and it is to be welcomed that they may be turning to politics as I believe the ballot box will show how isolated they really are inside the Nationalist community.

  • Toastedpuffin

    They’re certainly conforming to the lingua franca of the cult of Irish republicanism. Reading statements from Republican paramilitaries is always a sobering reminder of the dangers of disappearing up your own ass.

  • HeinzGuderian

    Slow Learners and REALLY Slow Learners,merge under a new name;Slow Learners United Gangs Society.

    Not surprised at the ‘whataboutery’ from the usual suspect 😉

  • michael-mcivor

    I would like to thank all those who took part in the public protests against RAAD- that group along with the reals surrenderd yesterday-

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    This is another very worrying statement for the PUL community of Ardoyne to contend with. Added to the viscous violence from the republican part of Ardoyne over many years in July, this statement will only add to the PUL Ardoyne communities uneasiness with events from republicans in Ardoyne

    These IRA groupings and republican vigilante groups are taking a hold in the republican part of Ardoyne. As evidenced by the large and violent march held by the RNU, who would support and be in broad agreement with these IRA groupings.

    Add in to all this the shinner getting his car paint bombed and the verbal altercation with the GARG/RNU and the shinners over those in the republican part of Ardoyne who were arrested for rioting and its an explosive mix in the republican part of Ardoyne.

    We the PUL community will get on with our peaceful lives and business, and all we can do is sit and wait in anticipation on whatever is to come our way from the explosive powder keg that is the republican part of Ardoyne.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    Sorry guys typo it should read.

    “Added to the vicious violence from the republican part of Ardoyne over many years in July, this statement will only add to the PUL Ardoyne communities uneasiness with events from republicans in Ardoyne”

  • carl marks

    ArdoyneUnionist
    Really if you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion then don’t bother, Again you make it sound as if the disses control Ardoyne and nightly attack the isolated little village of Hesketh, grow up.
    The rent a mob that rioted on the 12th certainly had Ardoyne people in it but most turned up for the annual social riot, Agreements between the residents and police could well help in curtailing this, also since This trouble is centred round a OO parade then the OO which claims to be a Christian organisation would at least meet with their neighbours to discuss the situation and look for ways to help defuse the powder keg.
    The Local Nationalist politicians are trying along with the local people to solve the problem, as witnessed by the attacks on their property lately. But they cannot do this in glorious isolation unionism must engage the local people their behaviour has a effect on this issue as Nationalist behaviour has a effect on the thinking and actions of the unionist community. I’m sure you understand how difficult it is to handle these dinosaurs as the PUL community has not been able to get rid of its dinosaurs either.

  • andnowwhat

    For at least the last year, the actions, inaction of SF have left things open nicely for these guys to seriously gain. A couple of years ago it would have been a breeze to pull such people up on how things have changed for the better but there is simply no doubt that unionism has slipped back in to it’s own persona. Whilst we cannot get the cops to do anything about non road legal motorbikes in my area, I see that they had no bother harassing those involved in a short film about the Ballymurphy massacre this Tuesday.

  • Fergie Pie

    andnowwhat (profile)
    27 July 2012 at 3:26 pm

    For at least the last year, the actions, inaction of SF have left things open nicely for these guys to seriously gain. A couple of years ago it would have been a breeze to pull such people up on how things have changed for the better but there is simply no doubt that unionism has slipped back in to it’s own persona.

    – – – – –

    Thank God you cleared that up.

    I had thought it was actually the fault of these dissident Nationalist terrorists themselves when they butcher, maim and kill catholic civilians (as almost all of their victims have been).

    But no – as per usual it’s all the Unionists fault…..

  • carl marks

    With all we know now about the depth of infiltration or the IRA and SF by British and PSNI agents, it would be safe to assume that these groups are also full of agents (I suspect that the member who is not a agent is a rarity), it begs the question oft asked in the past, how is it so difficult for the security forces to sort these people out since they make up a good portion of the leadership. The groups themselves seem to be more than a little paranoid as regards security.
    amanfromMars post may be tongue in cheek but may well have a element of truth in it, While I realise the freedom of travel issues, I wonder quite how so many young men were allowed to gather at Ardoyne at a time of such sensitivity, again something to be sorted out between the Residents and the PSNI.
    Some of the posters here are right, the dissidents are trying to restart the troubles, and I don’t think they can do it but let’s not help them by the same tired knee jerk tactics that failed so miserably last time around let’s hope they have all learnt something in the last 40 years the disses certainly don’t seem to have learnt or moved on and the best way to render them impotent is to show that we have learnt and are willing to move on.

  • carl marks

    Bangordub (profile)
    27 July 2012 at 12:52 am

    Joe,
    It is a mistake to underestimate these “Clowns”. They need to be confronted, engaged with and left in no doubt as to their position within the broader republican community. To dismiss them is a mistake.
    I completely agree, they seem incapable of producing a political platform beyond Brits out. With a confused mix of Che Guevara, and Padraig Pearse but without the politics of Guevara, However they have Guns and are daft enough to use them.
    Let’s get them debating and show them for the naive political fools they are, link that up with good fair and firm policing involving the majority of the community in Ardoyne (who I can assure u want a stop to all of this as much as anyone) and we have a formula for exposing them for what they are and getting the ringleaders of the streets or at least isolated and with their ability for mischief much reduced.

  • Carrickmoreman

    I assume this is just RAAD trying to change their image b/c they lost any respect (using term loosely) they had from within their community. Suddenly, they come out as (very) anti-PSNI, now this re-branding. RAAD is finished. That’s probably all that’s really going on here.

  • ranger1640

    Carl, you are of course right and I won’t post on this subject again.

    I will pass on to my community that republicans not only in Ardoyne are getting more militant but, Carl an ex-resident of republican Ardoyne and poster on slugger says we have “nothing constructive to add to the discussion”!

    Thanks Carl, we will be reassured by your comments.

    I will pass this onto my friends in the isolated PUL community of Westland road. Who are now coming under constant and sustained sectarian attack.

    http://www.u.tv/News/Protestant-family-forced-to-leave-home/64cc8584-2e57-47d6-bee4-7784498a9895

  • amanfromMars post may be tongue in cheek but may well have a element of truth in it,…“….. carl marks 27 July 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Of that you can be sure, carl marks, or Loughside Palace Barracks is a white elephant and MI5 is not fit for Future Greater Intelligence Games purpose.

    What do you know of the Live Operational Virtual Environmment, and the Leading of Realities and Virtual Reality with SMARTR AI and IT and Media Staging of Novel and Noble Events.

    And now Holywood has a new Colossus with Paint Hall and Titanic Studio facilities for Intelligence Block Busting Productions/Projects/Programs and probably also even Pogroms, but that is something which we shall not talk about freely here, methinks. 🙂 Somebody might be listening and jotting down incriminating notes.

    And what you can be assured about is that the Future will be nothing like the Past nor anything like the Present, for that is what Real SMARTR Progress is all about. And do you not think you deserve it, considering all the troubles you have been put through?

  • carl marks

    ranger1640,
    “Carl, you are of course right and I won’t post on this subject again.”

    Your Call,
    Westland isolated? Is it not beside the large loyalist areas of the upper Cavehil and the Ballysillen? It’s also good to know that the large loyalist paramilitary presence in the area is inactive.
    You could of course put something constructive into the debate instead of all this mopery. In common with you the majority of people in Ardoyne want rid of the Dissidents and like you want the stupid sectarian attacks ( you know both sides do it and both sides suffer) to stop. You distrust them they distrust you; both sides have good reason to distrust each other. The Dissident republicans feed of this distrust as do the loyalist groups.
    Outbursts that are Alarmist containing to say the least gross exaggerations, mixed with melodramatic language, claiming; it’s the other side wot is to blame for it all; is the mirror image of the crap we get from the Dissident assholes.
    A poster ( Ardoynerepublican or something similar) could swop statements with some of the loyalist posters on this and just change the names of the guilty, the general mopery and language would lead you to believe they were written by the same person. But of course that is wrong they were written by the same type of person.

  • Mister_Joe

    The virtually identical language could lead a reasonable person to suspect that there are a few sock puppets hanging around. But, of course, that would be plain wrong, wouldn’t it?

  • carl marks

    Mister_Joe

    would it?

  • J Kelly

    Grafitti in Creggan this week was brilliant and really hit the nail on the head ” You Will Never Be The IRA”

  • Barry the Blender

    A rebranding exercise for a paramilitary? What an bizarre day’s news.

    I reckon they’ll have more support than people on this thread let on though.

  • carl marks

    ranger1640
    Don’t misquote me I said
    “If you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion then don’t bother,
    Not that “ you have “nothing constructive to add to the discussion”!”
    There is a big difference, I suspect you know it and selectively modified the quote to suit the: hard done by, woe is us, look they won’t even let us talk, line you peddle

  • A rebranding exercise for a paramilitary? What an bizarre day’s news.

    I reckon they’ll have more support than people on this thread let on though. …. Barry the Blender 27 July 2012 at 9:26 pm

    With the right sort of spooky and experienced 0day exploit leadership are classic seamless morphs into a universal virtual force with immaculately resourced assets, a simply complex walk in the park for those engaged in and for the pulling of metaphorically strings and delivery of real and virtualised threads …… which translates in words of one syllable to …… It would be a steal and fab done deal with Clouds.

    And yes, that is also a live betatesting of all present legacy systems in current intelligence community facilities, for future necessarily vital and vibrant, virile and viral intelligence capability.

    Things have greatly changed in the fields explored and alluded to here, and are not at all as they once were, which is a most pleasant development. And you can be sure that that is a glorious understatement, which is best not to be misunderestimated.

  • The Lodger

    “I wonder quite how so many young men were allowed to gather at Ardoyne at a time of such sensitivity, again something to be sorted out between the Residents and the PSNI.
    Some of the posters here are right, the dissidents are trying to restart the troubles, and I don’t think they can do it but let’s not help them by the same tired knee jerk tactics that failed so miserably last time around”

    carl marks,

    Can you clarify what you are talking about here? On the one hand you seem to be stating that the PSNI should have prevented the republican dissidents from gathering up in such numbers, but on the other you rail against ‘tired knee jerk tactics’ which apparently ‘failed in the past’.

    What tactics would you use, and would the fact that PIRA has now disarmed and apparently disbanded not suggest that past tactics were in fact extremely successful?

    I won’t comment on your continued assertion that republican violence is the fault of unionists.

  • carl marks

    carl marks,

    The Lodger
    “Can you clarify what you are talking about here? On the one hand you seem to be stating that the PSNI should have prevented the republican dissidents from gathering up in such numbers, but on the other you rail against ‘tired knee jerk tactics’ which apparently ‘failed in the past’.

    What tactics would you use, and would the fact that PIRA has now disarmed and apparently disbanded not suggest that past tactics were in fact extremely successful?
    I won’t comment on your continued assertion that republican violence is the fault of unionists.”

    Let’s get the obvious nonsense out of the way first.
    If you care to check my posts you will see that your statement “continued assertion that republican violence is the fault of unionists.” Is simply not true, what I have said repeatedly is that the tat for tat (that means both sides are at it) violence that we have been suffering here for so long could be stopped. For that both sides have to recognise the hurt done to the other side, we could play the date game, each of us quoting earlier and earlier atrocities and before we know it we will be back to the 12th century ,of course this does mean that your community and mine will both have to take the blame for the things done by them.

    Now to the main part of the post
    .” that PIRA has now disarmed and apparently disbanded not suggest that past tactics were in fact extremely successful?”
    3500 dead, thousands maimed and injured ( do not forget both sides done the killing and maiming), 40 years of low intensity war (again both sides), tens of thousands intimidated out of their homes (again both sides) and SF in government you must be delighted with that result since you seem willing to go through it all again.
    Consultation between Police and the local community is certainly as far as the nationalist community is concerned is a new tactic; another new tactic not tried in the past would be for unionism to man up to its responsibility and take a stand against the regular offence caused to it nationalist neighbours and it must talk to its neighbours and come to a comprimise with them.

    .

  • The Lodger

    carl marks,

    I’m in a bit of a hurry and I’ll return to this tomorrow if you like, but briefly. On the one had you state that it is not true that you believe that unionists are causing republican violence. On the other you state that unionists must ‘stop giving offence’ which presumably you believe is causing said violence.

    You are confused and you have not unveiled any new tactics at all.

    It is not unionism or HMG’s fault that it took over thirty years to defeat PIRA. They were effectively defeated after Motorman, but refused to give up their pointless violence.

    As for ‘tat for tat’ I think you will find that about 90% or more of the violence is coming from the republican community.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Says J Kelly…

    “Grafitti in Creggan this week was brilliant and really hit the nail on the head ” You Will Never Be The IRA”

    I love the way the Shinners lay claim to the IRA. There are a lot of former IRA members out there, both male and female who hate the SF leadership. Most have no time for the groups now out there but they see the likes of McGuinness and Adams as nothing more than armchair generals who made themselves wealthy on the backs of others.

    As for those former IRA volunteers still with the Adamsites, if they haven’t become rich bar owners or landlords etc, then they are still there because there’s a wage in it.

    So don’t give us the nonsense that the IRA as a whole have followed Adamsism down the ‘sticky’ path.

  • carl marks

    . On the other you state that unionists must ‘stop giving offence’ which presumably you believe is causing said violence.
    Still not reading peoples posts, still making up your own history and still peddling the old line, it was themmuns who done it all. Here is what I said
    ” Is simply not true, what I have said repeatedly is that the tat for tat (that means both sides are at it) violence that we have been suffering here for so long could be stopped. For that both sides have to recognise the hurt done to the other side, we could play the date game, each of us quoting earlier and earlier atrocities and before we know it we will be back to the 12th century ,of course this does mean that your community and mine will both have to take the blame for the things done by them.
    I hate to state the obvious but that statement put the blame for violence on both sides.
    I know that doesn’t fit into the whole mopery thing you have got going but try not to be so lazy with the selective quoting try to keep the context, i will correct you when necessary.
    The quote you made was from the part about new tactics, but yes stopping the sectarian outbursts and taking the tricolours of the bonfires would help as well
    ” is not unionism or HMG’s fault that it took over thirty years to defeat PIRA. They were effectively defeated after Motorman, but refused to give up their pointless violence.”
    Are you seriously suggesting that the next twenty or so years after motorman where just a mopping up exercise. Come on get real or even better a (free) library card go to the local history section check out the books learn something.
    Amusing first you accuse me of blaming nationlist voilence on unionists then you attack me the the use of tit for tat. Make your Mind up.

  • carl marks

    The above post was in reply to The Lodger .

  • HeinzGuderian

    Guys,the dirty,little,sectarian skirmish is over.
    The end result reads:Northern Ireland remains part of the United Kingdom,as was the case before the skirmish started.
    Now,some very slow learners can’t,or won’t accept that.
    I would say that is their problem. Either learn to live with it,or learn the words to ‘Always Look on the Bright Side of Life’ 😉

  • Dixie Elliott

    HeinzGuderianmajig…

    It might be over as you say but the sectarianism remains, marching and fluting like they did when a Catholic wasn’t much better than Sir What-is-names dogs.

    What the likes of us has to learn is that it’s not about keeping the Croppies down, its about keeping the whole frigging lot of us down and divided.

    But idiots like yourself never learn these things…Do they?

  • Zig70

    So RAAD by this move, have got themselves prescribed. Obviously clever strategists.

  • carl marks

    Zig70 (profile)
    29 July 2012 at 12:59 am

    “So RAAD by this move, have got themselves prescribed. Obviously clever strategists.”
    Yes signs of deep thinking there, I wait with bated breath to hear their proposals on the Health service , Council boundaries ,Europe, the economic situation ,Global warming,
    As I say let’s get them defending themselves at the ballot box, I believe that there actual support will be comparable to what the loyalist groupings get, Once when out in the open they will be forced to defend what they do and what little credibility they have will disappear.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    This is a serious threat to all PUL communities throughout Northern Ireland, not just isolated PUL communities. I do fear that those more isolated PUL communities will be again in the front line of this resurgent IRA campaign.

    If these groups do as they suggest and target any form of normalization, I suspect it won’t take long before they descend into another IRA sectarian campaign, in an attempt to draw Loyalists.

    “Dissident groups have formed a single, new IRA to send a clear message to the republican community of an increasingly united challenge to the British government in Northern Ireland.

    Sources in the new organisation told the Belfast Telegraph they had joined forces to end “the confusion” in republican heartlands created by the existence of a myriad of dissident groups.

    The Real IRA, Republican Action Against Drugs (RAAD), and the group of independent republicans – responsible for Massereene and murdering police officer Ronan Kerr – have merged to form a single organisation calling itself the IRA.

    “By coming together we now offer a much more credible republican alternative to the Provisional movement,” a source in the new group said”.

    “We will build on that to present a stronger challenge to British rule, and the implementation of British rule, in Ireland”.

    http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/breen/arts2012/jul28_New_IRA__SBreen_Bel-Telegraph.php

  • The Lodger

    “I hate to state the obvious but that statement put the blame for violence on both sides.”

    carl marks,

    That would suggest that the republican violence in Ardoyne on the 12th of July was every bit as much the fault of unionists as it was of the drunken republican water cannon fodder who carried it out. That would be nonsense.

    “Are you seriously suggesting that the next twenty or so years after motorman where just a mopping up exercise.”

    I’m suggesting that post Motorman (arguably long before it) republican violence was utterly pointless and never had the slightest chance of succeeding. Republican violence was based on sectarian hatred and vengeance,. As someone once said though it was not those who could inflict the most, but those who could endure the most who succeeded.

    I could never understand why republicans thought that people who had endured the losses of the Somme or the bombs of the Blitz would role over to their brutish, but ineffective tactics.

    “Amusing first you accuse me of blaming nationlist voilence on unionists then you attack me the the use of tit for tat. Make your Mind up. ”

    There is no tit for tat. The vast, vast majority of any current violence is coming from the republican community.

    Btw you still haven’t suggested any new tactics for countering that violence.

  • aquifer

    Is Henry’s story a falsifiable proposition?

    How would we know that these enemies of the Irish people share anything except an allergic reaction to income tax and a murderous heap of self-regard?

    OK many may be related or co-religionists, but those are accidents of birth and possibly a good starting point for a tribal feud, but not the basis for a modern political programme.

  • The Lodger

    “If these groups do as they suggest and target any form of normalization, I suspect it won’t take long before they descend into another IRA sectarian campaign, in an attempt to draw Loyalists.”

    ArdoyneUnionist,

    That is exactly what their intention is. It has been so well sign posted that loyalists would be extremely foolish to fall into their trap. There is a heavy onus on the PSNI and MI5 to squash them before they can get any kind of sectarian murder campaign off the ground and also to protect isolated unionist communities. That of course will result in the usual MOPEry from the usual suspects.

  • andnowwhat

    Is this site being moderated at all, anymore?

  • The Lodger

    “As I say let’s get them defending themselves at the ballot box, I believe that there actual support will be comparable to what the loyalist groupings get, Once when out in the open they will be forced to defend what they do and what little credibility they have will disappear.”

    carl marks,

    They already tried the ballot box (Peggy O’Hara, Gerry McGeough etc) and were suitably humiliated. It made absolutely no difference to them though. I suppose that their logic tells them that PSF used to be humiliated in a similar fashion, but that eventually the CNR electorate fell into line for them.

  • carl marks

    The Lodger (profile)
    29 July 2012 at 5:38 pm

    “I hate to state the obvious but that statement put the blame for violence on both sides.”

    carl marks,

    That would suggest that the republican violence in Ardoyne on the 12th of July was every bit as much the fault of unionists as it was of the drunken republican water cannon fodder who carried it out. That would be nonsense.

    , I hate to tell you this because you don’t want to hear and judging by the fact that you don’t even seem to believe that unionism ever done anything wrong. But yes the violence in north Belfast is related to the unionists behaviour, now I know you are familiar with this principal with this idea because I’m sure you are aware of the many times unionism has blamed its violence on nationalists ( do I really need to list them), the offensive displays we see during the marching (which you cannot seen to admit to) are regarded by nationalists as deliberately insulting indeed it is hard to see them otherwise, is it beyond you that making people angry in this manner is not going to help things and while the blame for throwing bricks belongs to the brick throwers we all have a duty to behave in a civilised manner acting otherwise only makes it worse and easier for the disses to recruit brick throwers.
    “I’m suggesting that post Motorman (arguably long before it) republican violence was utterly pointless and never had the slightest chance of succeeding. Republican violence was based on sectarian hatred and vengeance,. As someone once said though it was not those who could inflict the most, but those who could endure the most who succeeded.”
    Of course the first shot by Republicans was pointless as was every bit of the violence that they did afterwards was.
    And every shot fired by the state.
    But so was every shot fired by loyalists (now please don’t say republicans started it on someone will post about Gusty Spence or something that then were off on that one) every bit as pointless.
    Must I point out again that both sides brought us to Where we are and it will take both sides to take us to a better place.

  • Hi, Mick/Sluggers,

    Can someone please share how one gets to read the string of earlier/older comments. Thanks.

  • The Lodger

    “I hate to tell you this because you don’t want to hear and judging by the fact that you don’t even seem to believe that unionism ever done anything wrong. But yes the violence in north Belfast is related to the unionists behaviour”

    carl marks,

    That is an incredible position to take. You are stating, presumably with a straight face, that the OO which complied 100% to the letter with the Parade’s Commission ruling on the Ardoyne Parade were responsible for the violence perpetrated by nationalists on the day.

    I can understand why you find the nationalist behaviour on that day embarrassing, but I’m afraid that their child like ignorance is not an excuse for it. They have to take responsibility for their own actions and stop trying to blame it on law abiding unionists.

  • malairt

    amanfromMars

    There’s a red box under the last post which says “older comments”. Press that and you’re there

  • Mister_Joe

    amanfrommars;

    If Malairt’s comment doesn’t get there, log out then log on again. Then try again.

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    Irish News – Sat Oct 20th 2012:

    Guns and ammunition found hidden in the boot of a car were to be used by dissident republicans in Belfast, a court has heard. Police believe the two weapons, discovered in the spare wheel of a BMW 5 series stopped in Co. Down, had been transported from the Republic.

    Details emerged as bail was refused yesterday to the driver arrested on the A1 near Hillsborough on September 10. Paul McDaid faces charges of having the handguns in suspicious circumstances and with intent to endanger lives.

    The 52-year-old, of Sheridan Street in north Belfast, denies knowing anything about the weapons. He claims to be a drug addict who agreed to drive the car to a location in order to pay off a debt to dealers.

    Counsel for the defence said the accused was trying to pay off money he owed for drugs. ‘He was in some fear of the people who were supplying him,’ the barrister told the High Court.

    .
    So it seems that the ‘new IRA’ is carrying on where the ‘old IRA’ left of – dealing drugs to poison innocent people in their own community. With the occasional kneecapping or punishment for those who don’t pay the IRA drug dealers on time.

    Soldiers of freedom, eh?