Robinsons withdraw legal challenge to report on day of Unionist walkout: Coincidence? Discuss…

Yesterday we had that walkout of Unionists from the current talks, choreographed to coincide, almost to the second, with the release of the Parades Commission determination for the Ardoyne return leg on the Twelfth. The assembled Unionists had an agreed statement already prepared about ‘graduated responses’ and made a call for no unlawful protests (ahem). Irony not being their strong point, this was in the context ignoring the legally binding determination of the Parades Commission. The first response was to withdraw from a North-South Ministerial Council meeting scheduled for today.
At more or less the same time, the legal challenge into the report by Douglas Bain into the Robinsons was withdrawn by the Robinsons’ legal team meaning it can now go forward to the Standards Committee of the Assembly. The report, into the behaviour of Peter and Iris Robinson, had been delayed over a significant period of time by Iris’ health. But for the last seven or eight months, it has been delayed from release by a legal challenge which would have soon had to be heard in court. The report may well have the potential to end Peter Robinson’s political career. The last time he was under such pressure, the DUP circulated their 40,000 infamous Flags leaflets.
So is the timing merely a coincidence? Discuss…

  • Mr Angry

    All entirely coincidental, I’m sure.

  • MYtwocents

    where the withdrawal of the legal challenged, to have lead to the report being put out yesterday, your contention may look valid, as it does not ,you look like your throwing mud in the hope that some my stick.

  • SK

    How many young, working class Protestants are going to get themselves criminal records over the coming weeks thanks to the DUP’s need to bury bad news? How many cops are going to be hospitalised?

    It’s almost sociopathic.

  • Sp12

    Couldn’t possibly be true, the sharpest mind in NornIrn, Jim Allister wouldn’t get fooled like this.

  • Roy Walsh

    A bad day for good news! If you’re Iris and Pete.

  • MYtwocents

    John, can you provide proof that the DUP put those 40,000 leaflets out, or is this something (else) you are stating, in a hope that should one throw enough muck, some will stick.

  • MYtwocents

    hello Roy, how’s your Irish nat version of the famine song going?.

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    mytwocewnts – who do you think put those leaflets out?

  • Roy Walsh

    Your two cents, wrong thread, read the response on the correct thread!

  • MYtwocents

    Not Now, I do not know, as, it was not me, and, I was not there to see who it was,now, do you think john put them out?.or do you think john was there and knows for sure it was the dup., or is he just pissing in the wind and hoping the wind wont change.

    Roy, will do.

  • Roy Walsh

    Catch a grip wee lad.

  • Jack2

    SK – It’s almost sociopathic.

    My thoughts exactly, he’s willing to send us to hell in a hand basket just for the sake of covering up his families wrong doings.

  • MYtwocents

    “catch a grip wee lad”, that does not rhyme with your other line ”If the Unionist parties don’t like it, Scotland is just a few miles to the east”,
    ps “wee” is that not an (Ulster) Scots word, will you be going with them then?.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Jack2 ,

    At the moment it’s the wrongdoings of the PC as to why we’re going to hell in a handbasket.

  • Banjaxed

    ‘At the moment it’s the wrongdoings of the PC as to why we’re going to hell in a handbasket’

    In your opinion, J_H, or are you assuming the powers of a legally constituted and statutory body for yourself?

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Banjaxed ,

    In 2012 Orangemen complied with the ruling and cut short their Twelfth parade in order to meet the return leg of this parade at 16:00 as per PC regulations. The parade passed is dignity, however large scale Republican rioting ensued. The result was a ban on the parade next yeat.

  • Neil

    Not for the first time Unionists are on one side of the argument while on the other we have the PC, Nationalists, the British government and pretty much every non Unionist who so far has expressed an opinion. We’re right and everyone else is wrong can be appended to the usual refrain of everyone hates us and we don’t care.

    The good thing is that when one draws a line in the sand and that line gets laughed at, pissed on and passed by a country mile, any further lines in the sand are irrelevant. Some here salivate at the prospect of UWC strike part II but they’re dreaming. Let them learn the hard way.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Neil,

    For once Unionism has had enough of being “laughed at, pissed on and passed by,” equality for all after all.

  • Neil

    Quit moping. You’ve been denied 0.01% of your three thpusand parades. A petulant child expects to always get it’s way, you lot are supposedly adults. Such melodramatics.

  • Delphin

    I would urge all to read the PC determination. It is on one of jagdip’s recent posts. Seems entirely reasonable to me.
    I think I can understand the frustrations and anger of unionists at the current situation. Bigotry and hatred are unfortunately widespread here and not confined to the PUL. However SF are good at politics. Unionism needs to up its game to match them. True leadership needs to be shown, not the reactive mob appeasing tactics of Paisley and Robinson which have proved to be the road to nowhere.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Neil,

    A moment ago you wanted Unionism wiped off the board, now it’s just 0.01% – make up your mind.

  • MYtwocents

    Delphin. jag PC quote is incomplete

  • Jack2

    Joe Hoggs –

    “In 2012 Orangemen complied with the ruling and cut short their Twelfth parade in order to meet the return leg of this parade at 16:00 as per PC regulations. The parade passed is dignity..”

    Have you seen the video on the LAD page of the 2012 return leg?
    Has more in common with a drunken mob than with a dignified religious march.
    Here’s the words of the song:
    No, no pope of rome.
    No chapels to sadden my eyes
    Thank f~ck
    No nuns and no priests
    F~ck your rosary beads
    Every day is the 12th of July
    Yeeeoooooooo

    Wonder why the residents find it offensive………

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    For once Unionism has had enough of being “laughed at, pissed on and passed by,” equality for all after all.
    ———————————————————————

    Really? And what is Unionism going to do about it? You write almost as if you believe Unionism has some great plan that will lead it to a better land. Well, it hasn’t. If you think that postponing an NSMC meeting or walking out of talks they’d barely walked into is going to lead to something, I suggest you think again.

    The familiar antics of Unionism which we are presently witnessing have a history of failure. Every decade or so the Unionist leadership comes along with some great go it alone plan which they think will lead to somewhere better but it never does. In the 60’s they opposed reform and lost their Unionist Parliament. In the 70’s they opposed power sharing with the SDLP and ended up power sharing with Sinn Fein. In the 80s they opposed the Anglo Irish Agreement and interference from the Irish government in the affairs of NI and ended up with the North South Ministerial Council and Irish Ministers with Executive powers. In the 1990’s it was the Drumcree debacle which led ultimately to the formation of the Parades Commission which they abhor. Then a decade later it was Trimble collapsing Stormont with Mark Durkin as deputy First Minister which led to the post going to the former second in command of the Derry IRA, MMcG.

    Consistently Unionism has backed the wrong horse. Smash Sinn Fein, hands off the UDR, save the RUC. What makes you think that yesterday’s grand standing by the Unionist leadership will lead to a successful outcome this time?

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Consistently Unionism has backed the wrong horse. Smash Sinn Fein, hands off the UDR, save the RUC. What makes you think that yesterday’s grand standing by the Unionist leadership will lead to a successful outcome this time?

    Not Now John,

    I feel it will be successful as you’re on here discussing it.

  • Banjaxed

    Joe_Hoggs
    ‘in 2012 Orangemen complied with the ruling and cut short their Twelfth parade in order to meet the return leg of this parade at 16:00 as per PC regulations. The parade passed is dignity, however large scale Republican rioting ensued. The result was a ban on the parade next yeat’

    That has nothing whatever to do with the question I asked you but it wouldn’t be the first time you ignore facts, change the subject and point the finger at the other side. For once, accept a legally binding decision – or appeal it, if you don’t like it , forget about finger pointing at Themmuns and assume responsibility for your own actions and decisions. Bleating about ‘them big lads made us do it’ just won’t wash any longer.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Banjaxed,

    OK what is your question and I will answer as best as I can, remember that we both enter these discussions as sinners.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Jack2,

    I have not seen that video but I would like to.

  • Jack2

    Its embedded on the LAD facebook page. Posted yesterday.

    My intraweb skills aren’t enough to link directly to a FB video.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Jack2 ,

    Hmmmm

  • Banjaxed

    J_H
    Just scroll upwards and, btw, I am without sin and therefore can throw (virtual) stones. ;-)

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Banjaxed,

    Well then only I am the big bad sinner here then and worse still an Orangeman.

    Your concern over logistics is of merit, however if the return parade could be arranged at a suitable time then this shouldn’t be an issue.

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    I feel it will be successful as you’re on here discussing it
    ———————————————————————–

    Joe, hardly a persuasive response. Nevertheless. What will being successful mean in terms of achievements for Unionism this time …. if your feelings that it will be successful this time turn out to be correct?

  • Joe_Hoggs

    NotNowJohn,

    At the moment my attitude has hardened a little, in the past I would have been more in favour of compromise, however I feel the “not an inch” process would be the best policy for now.

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Joe, as I pointed out earlier (and it is fairly obvious to most commentators), Unionism’s ‘not an inch’ policy has achieved nothing of substance in the last fifty years. (I will refrain from re-posting the list of major failures.) So why do unionists like yourself not learn from that? What is the difficulty in coming to such a conclusion? You have already failed to provide any basis for why you think it will be successful but yet you claim that you feel that it will be successful this time? I am genuinely interested in how you come to such a conclusion.

  • SK

    “however I feel the “not an inch” process would be the best policy for now.”

    _____

    Someone really has restored unionism back to its factory settings over the past few days. Let’s see how that works out for you.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    NOT NOW JOHN,

    Speaking to residents hasn’t worked, speaking to the PC hasn’t worked. Working with Nationalists hasn’t worked. Engaging in debate on here and one is met with sectarian slurs against all things Orangeism.

    At least this way Unionism is at least united, and many are taking comfort from that during a difficult time of intense attacks on our religion and culture.

  • carl marks

    Listened to Jeffery and James on Nolan and neither knew what was going to happen next, they were going to a meeting to discuss it and would get back to us in due course! So a pan unionist strategy has been agreed on without deciding what tactics to use, looks like its knee jerk from here on in.
    In the political forums (Westminster, Stormount, Councils) it’s difficult to see where they can go from here. There might be some room in London (David would like the Unionists on board for the next election but his partners the lib Dems will be a major problem) for putting pressure on, but closer to home what happens.
    Stormount, will they collapse the assembly I don’t think so, Peter is more than a little concerned about the next election and chances are that by the time one comes round the Shinners could be a lot more powerful both north and south of the border and of course it will mean the pay checks stop coming in.
    Non-cooperation is not a good option, Not doing the job they were elected to do and getting well paid to do while the country goes to the dogs will not sit well with many voters!
    Councils maybe stick a bigger flag up and that’s about it.
    Now’s here’s what will happen I (no crystal ball needed got history book instead) Peter will do what he (and the DUP/UUP done with the third force, and ulster resistance he will stand with paramilitary’s and make emotive speeches and when the inevitable violence starts he will express surprise and regret (plus throw in a bit of whataboutry about SF) that there was violence and will wash his hands.
    People will be hurt, the police will be attacked, roads will be blocked, young men will go to prison and the march will not get up the road.
    Its Drumcree 2, unionism will come out weaker, world opinion (amazing how unionists have no concern for the power of world opinion) will harden against them, more garden centres will be visited and unicorns will be having their spikes removed. All in All a good day for project UI, does anybody inside unionism understand politics?

  • Banjaxed

    J_H

    ‘intense attacks on our religion and culture’

    Now that is pure BS. If your idea of culture is to shove a flag in my face, insult a major religion, burn the Irish flag, screech racist/sectarian songs and march and dance triumphantly through areas in which you are clearly not wanted, can you seriously not understand why people object to this type of thuggish behavior.

    I don’t give a thimbleful of monkey’s piss if Orangemen want to march in their own areas till they’re blue in the face – just not in my front garden, please. It is not my culture, I do not have the slightest interest in it, you are more than welcome to it if it floats your boat, but someplace else where it doesn’t impinge on my peace and contentment. And, as a sideline, I feel the same about the Hugo Duncan programme but at least my radio has an off switch.

    In relation to attacks on Orange property, I completely condemn them, there’s no justification whatever for them but, unfortunately for all of us, both sides in this sectarian cesspit of NI have their unthinking, violent bigots.

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    At least this way Unionism is at least united, and many are taking comfort from that during a difficult time of intense attacks on our religion and culture.
    —————————————————————-

    Joe, I put it to you that the leaders of Unionism know that it will not deliver a successful outcome. However I also put it to you that they know that people like you will believe that what they are doing will lead to a successful outcome (you have already confirmed that) and that their behaviour is designed to fool you. Just like Paisley fooled those who have gone before into thinking he wanted to smash Sinn Fein before he leapt into the bed of government with them en route to the plush seats in the House of Lords along with his good lady wife. Just like Trimble led the protests at Drumcree before he too legged it to the House of Lords and into the Conservative Party with all its grandees. Not for them life in the tiny caravan at protest camp. Not for them the inside of a prison cell. Not for them riots on their doorstep night after in a deprived area amidst much poverty and social housing.

    I put it to you that the behaviour of the leaders of Unionism is all about the game of politics and that they are the kings and queens and the likes of you are merely pawns in their game. This is all about votes and elections. This is all about parties and politicians. This is not about religion or culture as far as the politicians are concerned. It is merely packaged up that way to get the likes of you on board so that you will vote for them. Only last week the DUP and Sinn Fein were sitting together in a room making agreements on major issues without the other parties in the Executive involved. Where was the Unionist togetherness then? The TUV are completely opposed to the DUP at Stormont. Where is the Unionist unity there? I put it to you that the showboating yesterday is only for the likes of your benefit.

    I put it to you that some of your unionist leaders desperately want to become MPs at Westminster at the next general election and get the feck out of here. And why not? Have you ever been to Westminster? Do you know about the salary of an MP? And the pension? And the expenses? Who else could yesterday’s grandstanding possibly be aimed at? Do you think it is aimed at the likes of me? Or at those who vote for Sinn Fein? Will the Parades Commission pack up and leave? Will the Secretary of State overrule the PC? Will the British government become involved and come to Unionism’s aid like in old times? Of course not. All this grandstanding will achieve nothing just as its achieved nothing before. Don’t be fooled by talk of unionist unity or all this grandstanding. his is merely a trick often played by Unionist leaders which delivers nothing for the likes of you but delivers exactly what is needed for them to succeed. Don’t be foolish enough to fall for it again.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Not Now John

    I think you’re right, that the leaders of political unionism know that all this grandstanding will not achieve their objectives, and will actually ultimately be harmful to their community. But I’m not sure that the footsoldiers are oblivious to this too.

    Right now, unionism as a whole looks a lot like the Pequod, with the political class being Captain Ahab. They all know the quest is doomed, that success is impossible and that continuing in the mad pursuit will certainly bring oblivion; yet continue they will, and oblivion it will be.

    The garden centre lot are like the crewmen on the Pequod who knew that the captain had gone stark raving mad but did nothing to prevent him from bringing them all to their destruction.

    Fleggerism, marching and Kick The Popery are pure nihilism. Joe Hoggs identifies the appeal:

    ‘At least this way Unionism is at least united, and many are taking comfort from that…’

    It’ll be pure sectarian solidarity, all the way to the bitter end.

    It will never occur to these benighted wretches that there’s more to life than all of this.

  • Reader

    Joe_Hoggs: At least this way Unionism is at least united, and many are taking comfort from that during a difficult time of intense attacks on our religion and culture.
    Unionism is *not* united. The political parties – full of zealots and dinosaurs – are *not* unionism. Actual unionism is staying at home infuriated at a so-called leadership that is constantly picking unwinnable fights over meaningless baubles; the parties pausing occasionally to recover a fraction of their lost voters by pretending to do a bit of politics, before lurching into the next debacle.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    I don’t understand how Nationalists can say the Drumcree dispute has been resolved.

  • Kevsterino

    Joe, if you don’t understand how Nationalists can say the Drumcree dispute has been resolved, try to open your mind to what it would take to get approval for that march to take place. Then ask yourself if that is in the realm of the possible. It takes a great deal of imagination, in my opinion, to see that parade proceeding down the Garvaghy Road.

    The Orange, immune to social insight, addicted to sectarian incite, blinkered by narcissism and deafened by the cacaphony of self praise, will continue its trajectory into political irrelevance. The only way it can sustain what is left of it is to change.

    And the Orange doesn’t do change well. In fact, the Orange doesn’t do change, at all.

  • Dec

    Drumcree has been resolved in much the same way as Obins Street and the Lower Ormeau Road have been resolved.

  • David Crookes

    What is the union worth if the condition of its existence is boneheads rule?

    Boneheads never get bored with imbecility, and they never get tired of boring everyone else.

    If unionist politicians have a strategy at all, it is to behave in such a comprehensively nasty and stupid manner as to make people think that a UI is impossible.

    They should be careful.. If their stupidity and nastiness sicken our CNR fellow-citizens sufficiently, fifty per cent plus one may do the unthinkable and vote for a UI, soon.

    A newly unified Ireland will be too proud to tolerate the same old Orange tripe for another two centuries. So for at least twenty years we’ll have UN troops assisting the sovereign government, not kindly tolerant Westminster.

    If I thought that a UI would bring the enforcement of two civilized months in July and August every year, plus enforced civilization for the rest of the year, I’d vote for it.

    Cork used to be the rebel county. Northern Ireland is the rebel statelet. The elected representatives of unionism are not on the side of the law. I reckon that we are seeing the ugly death-throes of unionism.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    I reckon that we are seeing the ugly death-throes of unionism.

    You might be right, David. Euripides well described it :
    “Those whom God wishes to destroy, he first deprives of their senses.”
    Longfellow described it similarly:
    “Whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad.”

  • Jack2

    Mister_Joe and David both make very valid points.

    Unionism is burning bridges and goodwill at a huge rate, both here and in GB.
    Someday there will be a vote as per Scotland.
    It may not be in 10 yrs but 20 yrs is possible, 30-40 I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a vote to leave the union.
    All those flegger youtube video’s, the ramblings of anti Catholic bile on FB, politicians defending racism then having to backtrack and who knows what else in decades to come. It could all be compacted and memorialized down to support a Yes message.
    The voter will have to decide , what price the union.
    If I can mute these twunts and it will cost me £x per year , is it worth it?

    A vote will come. Its inevitable.

    The constant ramping up of tensions worked in the 20th century and it may well work for a while longer but there will be a tipping point where the cost outweighs the hassle.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    NOT NOW JOHN & Joe Hoggs

    NNJ is spot on.

    This is a farce doomed to failure.

    The only way unionism can gain from this corner that they’ve backed themselves into is if they get well and truly burnt and try to sculpt an unrecognisable phoenix from the ashes.

    Let the flegging classes follow the TUV but hopefully a different unionist creature can emerge.

    I wish yer man Col Tim Collins did take over the UUP back in the day. To be an officer of that standing you need strategic depth and to know which battles to fight and how to fight the battles that you do choose.

    The current lot pick all fights and adopt the same old static defence.

    I sometimes thinking winning the Siege of Derry was one of the worst things to happen the Ulster Protestants, it’s been their blueprint for fighting ever since (professional soldiers such as Montgomery, Auchinleck, Dill, Brooke, Collins, Mayne etc excepted. Naturally)

  • Banjaxed

    Am Gobsmacht

    ‘I sometimes thinking winning the Siege of Derry was one of the worst things to happen the Ulster Protestants’

    AG, whilst I agree with you, David and Jack2 in relation to the reactionary or backward nature of Unionist thinking in general – if I’m not mistaken – I personally have always thought that the worst thing to happen to Ireland, rather than to my Protestant brothers/sisters alone, has been the partitioning of the island itself. And it’s not only simple political Nationalism which forms my opinion but my perception of the damage of how the rigid sectarianism, entrenched by the artificial separation of what could and would have been a viable sovereign state, has affected the whole of the island.

    In the North, Unionism turned into itself – ‘A Protestant parliament for a Protestant people’. In the South, the De Valera government handed over, in effect, the keys of the country to the RC church. And, in fairness, why would have Protestants, in their wildest dreams, embraced this Dantean-like scenario?

    A different ballgame exists now, however. Demographics have changed the dynamic in the North, while the arrogance and corruption of the Catholic Church in the South (and elsewhere) has damaged its standing for the foreseeable future, hopefully forever.

    Consider this: if you ask anyone in Britain, apart from an on-message party political apparatchik, how they would describe anyone from the island of Ireland, North or South, a pound to a penny they would invariably say ‘Irish’.

    Therefore, my contention is this; if they so wished, the Unionist body politic could be in power on a permanent basis in Ireland in any coalition imaginable given the strength of their numbers. And, bottom line, what is the point of politics if you can’t achieve power? Or do they, in all their insecurities, wish to remain forever the head bottle-washer of what is, in all reality, an emasculated county council? And, just as an aside, the smoke signals coming from London wouldn’t give me much confidence if I was a Unionist. Cameron meeting the Shinners, the Queen having a private confab with Marty McG. The horror, the horror….

    But the bonus is, just think of the change that the mind sets on both parts of the island would have to adapt to – Prods wouldn’t have to be dour any more and Micks wouldn’t have to hire a ceilidh band to help them with the rhythm method. Aah, luxury… ;)

  • Granni Trixie

    Is it just me having a conspiracy theory too far when I link up Wee Jeffrey coming to the fore in this potential crisis to possibly an imminent DUP leadership battle ? Would he aspire to lead to DUP?

    Mytwocents
    You must be one of the few who does not know an established fact that 40,000 leaflets were distributed by the DUP and UUP councillors from Belfast City Hall.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Banjaxed

    Preaching to the choir old bean.

    I just despair at how the ‘leadership’ can’t play ‘the game’.

  • Zeno

    “Therefore, my contention is this; if they so wished, the Unionist body politic could be in power on a permanent basis in Ireland”

    Banjaxed.
    Would they not still be Unionists? Would they not be fighting to be reunified with the UK? Would they not be trying to make the ROI ungovernable? Would all the parading issues suddenly vanish or get much worse?

  • Banjaxed

    Zeno

    ‘Would they not be trying to make the ROI ungovernable?’

    I refer to my earlier comment of ‘what is the point of politics if you can’t achieve power’. If they choose to make the ROI ungovernable, they will lose control and, ultimately, power. It’s self-defeating. So, again, what’s the point?

    In relation to marching, we’re going to have to reach a compromise here anyway, never mind anywhere else. It can be done if there’s a will to do it.

    But thank God you never mentioned the flegs!

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Hiya, Am Ghobsmacht:

    “I sometimes thinking winning the Siege of Derry was one of the worst things to happen the Ulster Protestants, it’s been their blueprint for fighting ever since.”

    Actually, the people who were in the walled town during the blockade (a seventeenth century seige was something much more organised) were more than aware they’d lost that one. William Hamill’s “A View of thhe Danger and Folly of being Public Spirited and Sincerely loving ones Country” written by the agent for the participants thirty years after the “breaking of the boom” tells the story of the studied neglect displayed by their Dutch and English “allies”, whose contempt for the “mugs” who did the job of stopping King James is evident in every sentence.

    Hamill shows how the only “winners” were these outsiders who were able to benefit from the self destructive “folly” of the defenders, who while they were defending the town were offered some excellent surrender deals by their actual king.

    Accordingly, their blueprint was faulted at its very inception……

  • Comrade Stalin

    Alliance members witnessed DUP and UUP councillors delivering the leaflets and I spoke to one senior DUP councillor who admitted it and defended the idea to me. Michael Copeland’s wife posted on Facebook about a year or so back a comment implying that it was masterminded by the DUP.

    Joe Hoggs,

    No offence but you are a manifestation of schizophrenic unionism. On one hand much of what you say here is reasonable. You are law abiding and you want people who besmirch the organizations you support to be disciplined and expelled, and you don’t agree with intimidation or provocation. I think that people who express, and practice, those values should be accommodated to the maximum extent possible.

    On the other hand you are repeating this unfounded rhetoric that comes from unionist politicians about culture and traditions constantly being under attack. These are comments that can be easily perceived to be a call to arms, and will no doubt be taken that way by some elements within loyalism.

    You are asking people to respect your traditions and background. That is a reasonable request. But what unionists are not doing is asking their own supporters to respect the controversial nature of their parades, and to understand the impact that it has upon community relations when provocation, sectarian abuse or disorder happens alongside those parades.

    But your culture and traditions, as you see them, are no more under attack than they would be anywhere else in the world. Imagine for a moment that for some reason Orangemen emigrated, en masse, to any other part of the UK (or any other part of the world); they would find their parades severely curtailed or banned. They’d have to grovel to the locals for permission to parade and they’d have to make damn sure their members and supporters were on their best behaviour. Back here, all that is being asked for is acceptance of a tiny curtailment of a tiny number of parades.

    This is a square that cannot be circled. Unionism is threatening to go to war (either figuratively or literally) over a battle that it has already lost. In doing so, it threatens to destroy the piecemeal progress that has been made over the past 15 years and risks heightening community tensions even further, which will simply lead to even more parades being curtailed. Only Unionism can pull the plug on this self-destructive path.

  • Zeno

    Banjaxed

    I was really making the point that Unionists being forced into a UI by being out voted is not going to be a solution. What problems would that solve? All you would have is a large section of the community working against Ireland.

  • Banjaxed

    I understand completely, Zeno. The change would need to be on a voluntary basis from the get-go otherwise you have another disaffected minority on your hands. Look, this is most likely fantasy politics and I would be the first to admit it. However, I was merely expanding my view of the damage caused to the Island, as a whole, by its partition. It codified and copper-fastened sectarianism on both sides and we’ve been living with its consequences ever since. Mind you, society in the South looks a hell of a lot more stable than ours, despite their financial turmoil, as we lurch yet again from crisis to crisis.