Frazer vs. Frazer: Love Ulster Chapter 201
Talkback had a ‘Love Ulster’ focus yesterday(Tuesday), with an intriguing debate between Willie Frazer and a Dublin-based Rev. David Frazer on this weekend’s march and rally in Dublin. The debate was memorable for an irate Willie demanding that the Anglican minister ‘take pills’ and convert to catholicism after expressing an opposing opinion on the parade. Suzanne Breen threw in her tuppence worth, challenging southern opposition to the parade, though she omitted to mention that Sinn Fein has actually supported the parade.
Methinks thou dost protest too much, Dread. Which posters have said that this march should not be allowed to take place?
Tochais Síoraí
From the pen of PopeBuckfastXVI…
I’m all for the demonstration, and no better place for a Political demonstration than our nations capital
“The Revd David Frazer is one of the most liberal minded, limp as lettuce CofI clergyman in the south of Ireland.
If Willie Frazer knew anything about the Church of Ireland, then he’d know that the Reverend is one of the few Church of Irelanders who performs blessings for divorcees and atheists. For that reason, he’ll never be an ideal candidate for the rough-and-ready Catholic Church – now or at any time.”
The Slugger commenting system has gone completely bonkers. For the record, it was me, Nathan, who wrote the above comment.
The fact that Glensman has been given the credit for a post which was my doing is really bizarre.
The Plantations were, in intent, an effort of ethnic / cultural cleansing, combining land confiscation and efforts to convert the dispossed Catholic population to Protestantism, spanning from Henry VIII to Cromwell.
The Ulster plantation was guided by two principles: The first being the securing of British-occupied Ulster, occurring after the Unification of the crowns of Scotland and England under James I. To do this, they decided that, unlike the Munster Plantation, where relatively small areas were confiscated, that wholesale confiscation and re-granting of the land to English and Scottish colonists would be undertaken. In addition to Irish ownership being negated, Irish tenants were specifically banned, with the plan to import labor from England and Scotland. Irish population was relocated to garrison towns and near Protestant churches, an effort to control the native population. Sale of land to non- English/Scots was expressly banned. All Churches and Roman Catholic property was confiscated and turned over to the Church of Ireland, where priests from England and the Pale were to convert the “natives,” just as schoools were established for the teaching of English. In short, the plan was to stamp out the Irish language and the Catholic faith, confiscate the land and dispossess the native population of both their wealth and their cultural heritage.
What, if anything, is there to misunderstand?
Dread Cthulhu,
In Sunken R’y'Leh, Dreaming.
Is the idea of a victims parade through Dublin not at least 10 years late?
Leader of ‘Love’ march not fit to own gun because of his link to Loyalist terrorists – police
Anne-Marie Walsh
Irish Independent
THE organiser of the loyalist ‘Love’ march through Dublin tomorrow was refused a gun licence because of his paramilitary associations.
According to a High Court judgment in the North, Willie Frazer had his firearm licence revoked and was also refused a personal protection weapon because he was deemed unfit.
The Armagh man, who is set to meet Justice Minister Michael McDowell, is the main figure behind a controversial ‘Love Ulster’ rally to Dail Eireann at midday tomorrow.
He is the frontman for the victim support group Families Acting for Innocent Relatives.
Provoke
The group says they do not want to provoke nationalists but merely show people in the republic the reality of their troubled history. Mr Frazer’s father a Ulster Defence Regiment member, was murdered by the IRA in 1975.
The families of victims of the Dublin Monaghan bombings last night said they were strongly opposed to the Government meeting Mr Frazer’s delegation because of its alleged links with paramilitaries.
Claims by the Justice for the Forgotten group that marchers may display a photo montage of Robert McConnell, also known as ‘the Jackal’, alleged to be linked to the deaths of 55 Catholics, were denied by Mr Frazer.
‘The Jackal’ is also believed to have been a key suspect in the bombings in Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 in which 33 people lost their lives.
But Mr Frazer said he did not believe there would be any photos of the now deceased Robert McConnell at the march and said there would be no music as a mark of respect to victims as the parade passes one of the bomb sites.
He also denied he has any associations with paramilitaries and said that the move to revoke his gun licence was ‘political’.
“I’d had a shotgun for 15 years when I applied for a personal protection weapon,” he said. “I wanted it because I was getting a lot of death threats.”
“The bottom line is that the government wanted me to stop doing what I’m doing and had warned me that I would lose my shotgun. There’s a lot of stuff coming out to discredit me but that doesn’t bother me,” he added.
Official documents of the High Court in the North seen by The Irish Independent show that Mr Frazer, was refused in a bid to to get a personal firearm.
A court judgment dated October 27, 2004, following a challenge by Mr Frazer by way of a judicial review, upheld the refusal of a personal protection weapon and the revocation of his firearms cert.
“I am satisfied that the (Security) Minister was entitled to conclude that the applicant was unfitted to hold a firearms certificate by reason of the police intelligence concerning paramilitary associations,” it said.
Mr Frazer had been informed in a letter from the Firearms and Explosives Branch of the Northern Ireland Office on May 12 2003 that the Chief Constable had revoked his firearms certificate “as the applicant was unfit to be in possession of firearms and that he based his decision on a reliable intelligence report that you (Mr Frazer) associated with loyalist terrorist organisations.”
Speaking of this weekend’s march, Mr Frazer said that World War II veterans from the republic had been in touch to see if they could join the march.
He also denied that Robert McConnell, who was killed by the IRA in 1976 was involved in any terrorist activity.
Between 500 and 1,000 people are expected to attend the march. It begins at Parnell Square at 12.30pm. Meanwhile, Republican Sinn Fein are also expected to stage a march through the city tomorrow.
Frazer was denied the right to a personal protection weapon and had the Firearms Certificate in respect of the shotgun revoked.
The reason was stated by the police to be that “this view is taken because of your alleged associations with loyalist terrorist organisations”.
He appealed to the Secretary of State who informed Frazer that the Chief Constable had revoked his Firearms Certificate as he was unfit to be in possession of firearms and that:
“He based his decision on a reliable intelligence report that you associated with Loyalist terrorist organisations. He considered that your association with these organisations did not arise from your work with FAIR and could not be described as legitimate.”
While utterly opposing the message of ‘Love Ulster’ I still feel we should let the march through, if only to show we are not the vampires extremist Loyalists paint us as. Anyway, at least in the South, we have impartial security-forces that will not attack civilians, unlike elements of the old RUC allegedly did.
I guess you people are so close to all this that you can’t see it like the rest of the world does.
To the world, Ulster men marching = trouble. This is what we see every year and frankly it’s a little pathetic.
So you think another march by Ulster men is a solution, rather than a problem?
In principle, it’s kind of like the Sunni Muslims in Iraq protesting by exploding a car bomb.
Last year, in the USA, we saw footage of Catholic school children being harrassed by adult Protestants. The animals were throwing things at little kids, cursing at them as they walked to school. What did “Love Ulster” think of that?
I hope the rioters, as many as possible, are caught and severely dealt with by the courts. I hope we never again witness such dreadful scenes in Dublin. However, I also hope that so-called “FAIR” and so-called “Love Ulster” are never again given permission to march in Dublin. “FAIR”are an extremely biased organization. Mr Frazer is a deeply unpleasant and bigoted mad man. He is obviously unstable. He offers no solutions to anything and would, doubtless, be a hate-filled boorish bigot even if he had never lost anyone in the Troubles (and I’m sorry that he did). Nevertheless, there are plenty of people who lost loved ones and they didn’t turn out like him or carry on the way he does. Frazer would no doubt tell us he is “Christian” but is he really? What about “love your enemies”? forgiveness? Turn the other cheek? And so on. It is a bitter and twisted perversion of “religion” that we find in people of Frazer’s bent. Likewise, Frazer and UNFAIR’s fellow travellers, the so-called “Love Ulster” outfit – a highly controversial, deeply sectarian organisation, should never ever be permitted to walk our city’s streets. Should the National Front be allowed to parade through Dublin? Never! “Love Ulster” are pretty much the same. We do not want your hate-inspired organizations, your obnoxious “Kick the Pope” bands, your intransigent and brain-dead bigotry, anywhere near us – Irish govt. please take note! Stay away. You have no business here. Normal, decent Protestant people from the North will always find a warm welcome in Dublin but not that buffoon Frazer and his cronies. If you were a genuine group, you could have come without the trappings of anti-Catholic hatred and sectarian bigotry. You could have held your meeting and the elected reps. could have made their speeches.But you are not genuine. You are bigots. Deep down you only care about coat-trailing, stoking the flames. No doubt your martyr and persecution complexes have been strengthened by yesterday’s antics but you are much the same as the cretins who did the rioting. Observe “Love Ulster” (Wreck Ulster?)in action last September in the North!! So get lost and keep away!