Cartoon – ‘The ghost of Peace Process past’

Mike Nesbitt and Peter Robinson cartoon

Ever since the McGuigan killing Robinson has been under pressure from the unionist right. With the publication of the paramilitary assessment panel report, Robinson’s decision to  end the hokey-cokey and stay in has been a lightning rod for inter-unionist ire.

Against all this the parallel between Robinson and former First Minister David Trimble has been made, and it is plain to see. We know how Trimble’s career ended, and that ghost hangs over the ongoing debacle.

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  • WindsorRocker

    Seems that’s the pattern in unionism. Whoever is leading is saddled with real decisions with real consequences and the rest get the luxury of making grand stands and gestures until they might get in the leadership seat.

  • Nevin

    Brian, gauging by this BBC report, Mike Nesbitt has become ‘the lightening rod’ of OFMDFM ire:

    Peter: “There are those who are sitting on the sidelines.

    “We know who they are. They are the whingers, the wreckers, the political snipers who look for failure, who hope for failure so they might personally, or from a party point-of-view, benefit.”

    Martin: But he also claimed there had been an attempt to “sabotage” the talks in the last few weeks. ..

    “The difficulty about recent times is that some parties can’t get out the door quick enough to say something which negatively feeds into what we’re trying to do.”

    Mike’s comments IMO are much more restrained.

    The OFMDFM would have been under much greater pressure had the report been a full and frank one rather than one designed as a damage limitation exercise. IMO London and Dublin are making greater efforts to protect the current OFMDFM duo than they did when Trimble and Mallon were in the hot seats.

  • chrisjones2

    The difference is that Tremble had Paisley hovering in the wings and the British and Irish Governments desperate to bring the DUPs in from the cold. To do that Tremble had to go.

    Robbo isnt in the same position. His many lieutenants didn’t have the chutzpah to administer the coup de gras over Irisgate, showing their fundamental lack of the cutting edge.

    So he’s probably still unassailable until he wants to go or Big Ian nudges the Big Yin and suggests its time to call him home to account

  • chrisjones2

    “We know who they are. They are the whingers, the wreckers, the political snipers who look for failure, who hope for failure so they might personally, or from a party point-of-view, benefit.”

    Was he speaking on a history of the first 30 years of the DUP?

  • Greenflag 2

    Here we go round the Mulberry Bush again or is it Ring a Ring a Rosie a pocketful of extra Assembly seats -Ashes ashes we all fall down ?
    But then we all get back up change places and away we go again 🙁

    The Ring a Ring a Rosie goes back to the Black Death but those who fell down then did’nt get back up again . In NI they have no choice but to get back up again otherwise its goodnight and goodbye Assembly and hello Orange death or more properly it’s Unionist equivalent .

    When does deja vu stop becoming deja vu in NI politics ? When does it just become a permanent fixture of the local political culture ?

    I’d guess sometime around 1972 or 1974 but others may wish to go back to 1920 or even earlier 🙁

  • SeaanUiNeill

    I’d prefer to go back past 1567, but then I would say that…….

  • SeaanUiNeill

    As I said on another thread, Chris, he’ll still be FM even if he was on life support, Franco style…..

  • Greenflag 2

    Trimble not Tremble the man may have trembled when dealing with the Doc but never IIRC publicly . In fact they even held hands one time at some quasi fascist demo .

  • Greenflag 2

    You got me there . ? Can’t imagine the dental care was all that good back then and life expectancy might have been about 19 . In 1567 English and Irish living standards had not recovered to where they had reached before the Romans gapped it and would’nt for another 150 years . What was 1567 all about ? briefly if you have time .

  • chrisjones2

    ….and none of his own party will dare pull the plug ……though they will all encourage each other to do so

  • chrisjones2

    I favour the 1340s when men were men …but the Black Death would have been a bit of a bummer

  • chrisjones2

    Well you were sort of cut down in your prime in 1567 weren’t you

    But at least for the last 400 years you have occupied part of Gods Own Country near Ballymena

    What’s the broadband connection like up there?

  • tmitch57

    Gorbachev in the late 1980s worried about the ghost of Khrushchev and yet in a very wobbly fashion tried to reform an unreformable system until a failed KGB-led coup attempt put an end to his political career and brought the bolder Yeltsin to power. Yeltsin, however, suffered from the Russian disease and ended up failing miserably and serving only as an interlude before Putin became the next great Russian leader. In Israel Barak had the ghost of Rabin who was defeated by Begin at the end of his first term and then assassinated by a religious fanatic at about the same point that he lost power in his first term. Barak displayed a combination of caution and boldness that kept him from successfully concluding peace with either Syria or the Palestinians. He was then replaced by Sharon who was more successful in a much more limited project–the withdrawal from Gaza. In NI Trimble was replaced by the more cautious and demagogic Paisley who was then forced to retire by a successful coup within his own party. Robinson then implemented a Trimblesque policy and deftly survived the problems created for him by his wife’s mental instability and arrogance. I expect that Robinson will go in such a way so as to be able to appoint his own successor. I just don’t know if he has his eye on Dodds or on Foster.

  • chrisjones2

    Try Wikipedia. he met a sticky end as in the head chopped off variety

  • Greenflag 2

    Ah the last of the Divine Righters . And the chap who had his head chopped later suffered a worse indignity . The English tired of the ould Puritanism and curmudgeonly Cromwellians and after the Restoration some revanchist royalists dug up Ollies remaining remains and had his corpse charged for the crime of regicide and then cut his head and reputedly kicked it around a field like a football . I don’t believe this is how soccer was invented but you never know !

    And then the good time aristos and degenerates emerged into the royal enclosures and fun was had by one and all except the most diehard of Cromwellians who packed their bags and headed for the New World where they spread their new found faiths with such energy that there are now several thousand offshoots of their ancient faith which is way way more than the number of cereal varieties or canned foods on the shelves of Walmart or Aldis .

    Religion has now become consumer product -you pick up the one that suits your lifestyle best and is least uncomfortable to any niggling doubts you have about your human failings .

    As somebody said on another thread load of bollox really . They should treat them all as a business and tax them on their revenues just like corporations . Now theres an idea for Chancellor Osborne to consider . A double pronged attack on the City and on Religious denominations and those 30 billion he needs to cut could end up with a 70 billion surplus ? Queenie would’nt like it at all at all and neither would Barclays , or HSBC or RBS or Goldmans but the emisserated British middle and working and indigent classes might approve . She can’t have Ozzies head chopped off nowadays -they only do that sort of thing in the Holy Land and parts east .

  • Greenflag 2

    Ah not Charles the First but Shane O’Neill . I wondered what Seaan was on about .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_O%27Neill

    Charles 2 was the Restoration King and then there was Bonnie Prince Charlie who would have been the Third had he driven the Hanoverians back to Hanover -a close run thing it was too .
    Only a devious lie and a hesitant Lord Murray who believed it stopped Fat George from returning to the land of his ancestor on the Dover -Calais packet ship .

  • chrisjones2

    …and that was becasue they recognised that the system would only be stable if it was SF and the DUPs in power

    The UUP and SDLPs problem was that essentially they were democrats and therefore not dangerous enough

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Indeed Greenflag, the Sainted Charles began to look like something of a pussy cat when a real hard faced sanctimonious Dictator who was truly ruthless took over. Hence the enormous collective sigh of relief that greeted the Restoration in 1660.

    I’d not be wasting my ink on poor “Liz the Usurper” (now a rather sad no.302 in the list of “Richest people in Britain”, a little above Cameron’s friend Matthew Freud and low down after the truly rich such as the Beckams, the Duke of Westminster and a lot of Russian oligarchs. There are real enemies out there actually crafting the centralised wealth that ensures 1% of the globe owns 50% who we need to be looking at. This obsession with poor aged Liz is very much yesterdays war, and increasingly rather passé.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Broadband, I’ll have to ask a kern about that…..

    Oh, you do know, Chris, that Seán Donnghaileach Mac Cuinn Bhacaigh Ó Néill’s burial cairn is at Cushendun, although his actual remains (minus head) are probably buried near the C of I Glenarm Churchyard? What’s all this about Ballymena?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_O%27Neill

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Just before 1567 living standards were so much higher in the north, and life and limb so much more secure, that English yeomen from the Pale were begging farms of my illustrious namesake. Of course Henry Sidney changed all that, with a little unpaid help from a small band of marauding McDonnells camped by Castle Carra at Cushendun.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Ah, if only…….

    http://www.jacobite.ca/essays/if.htm

    A little light reading.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Perhaps they can send someone in from the UUP with vacuum cleaner that needs to be plugged in………

  • SeaanUiNeill

    I remember that! My brother in a moment of solidarity with his proletarian brethren bought a rather kitch tee-shirt for his newborn with “Born to Walk the Gavachy Road”, and much to my own malicious delight, I’ve been able to tell him that yes, at almost twenty the boy may now do so, but alone and not with his Lodge.

    Perhaps Chris is referring to that old Saw from the period, “Trimble will Tremble when the boys reassemble”……..

  • Nevin

    “Yeah, you guys, your problem is you don’t have guns.” is the comment attributed to Tony Blair at the time of the Weston Park talks in 2001 by Mark Durkan. This is something of an understatement considering the use of Semtex and mortars.

    There’s never going to be stability in a tug-of-war, just the exercise of the mutual veto. The TUV will boast about the introduction of Ann’s Law but I doubt if that would have got over the line without the grit and determination of Ann Travers.

  • chrisjones2

    Do you mean something like this

  • Greenflag 2

    One of my principal principles is never to wear clothing that has words on it . Unless the advertisers pay you in which case a personal wear daily fee can be negotiated 😉

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Greenflag, I don’t think my rather fastidious brother actually did anything as crass as put the said garment actually on the child, let alone wheel him on a Drumcree protest. I believe it was placed in that box marked “Historical Memorabilia”, with his Charles and Diana wedding tray, some of those1830s mugs with the Dutch Usurper represented in Roman Dress (as with the long ago removed statue at College Green, Dublin) and the like, for passing to auctioneers should future generations ever find themselves in financial need in order to flee the impending horror of an imminent United Ireland.

    On the subject of the “William” statue, some rather earlier fellow Jacobites used to place a straw figure on it behind the Prince of Orange’s back at night to celebrate the Usurper’s birthday, but by the nineteenth century the more enterprising had begun to use dynamite. I quote:

    “This equestrian statue of William III stands [1898] in College Green, and has stood there, more or less, since A.D 1701. We say “more or less” because no statue in the world, perhaps, has been subject to so many vicissitudes. It has been insulted, mutilated and blown up so many times, that the original figure, never particularly graceful, is now a battered wreck, pieced and patched together, like an old, worn out garment.”

  • Greenflag 2

    In consideration of her advancing years perhaps Ozzie may exempt Queenie from losing her tax credits 😉

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Perhaps! But I imagine the few pennies she has held back against her ruin will perhaps see her out. In the worst scenario she could even sell her London house to a Russian Oligarch as so many of her more wealthy fellow countrymen have already done, before the property price bubble in London actually bursts.

  • Greenflag 2

    That singer needs to do a gig at Stormont -the life support is just prolonging the agony 😉

    Not funny but viciously hilarious -inappropriate viewing for under 12’s

  • SeaanUiNeill

    A California harper involved in hospice work once told me that the elderly in care house offer the perfect audience for her music, as few of them can actually run away very fast.

    I imagine she’ll one day be playing to our own (still in office) First Minister……….

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Except as a timely warning for our impressionable under 12s not to trust Evangelical Guitarists……. well that’s narrowed the field to succeed Peter by at least one!

  • MainlandUlsterman

    pressure is not just from the unionist right, though. A lot of the pressure has actually come from unionist centre-grounders.

  • mushroom man

    Peter Robinson is unappreciated amongst unionists. He selflessly brought the backward DUP into a powersharing executive which has a record of unparalleled positivity for the north of Ireland. It’s a real worry that he might be gone soon to be replaced by a colarette wearer like Dodds

  • James7e

    No GAA shirts then?

  • chrisjones2

    Oh the satire!!

  • chrisjones2

    No shirts of any breed that turn you into a walking advertising hoarding for someones products and then charge you £40 for the privilege!!!

    A free set of skinned knuckle with every shirt

  • SeaanUiNeill

    This is a very confusing post for me, MM. I appear to be living in an entirely different place also called “Northern Ireland” governed by a singularly self serving politician, also called Peter Robinson, who publicly endorses strange pastors who, amongst other bizarre views, describe Islam as “Heathen” and “Satanic”. Unlike the rather interestingly selfless figure you describe, our Peter is almost undistinguishable from the “collarette wearer” you describe, and appears to have entered into the power sharing executive simply because it is the only way he may wield absolute power through a joint office of OFMdFM that appears to be able to rule almost by decree. Like many of those who live in my much more frightening parallel universe, I’d value some indication about which wardrobe we will need to climb through to reach this golden counterfactual you appear to live in.

  • Granni Trixie

    Though I can hardly believe it myself I have a t-shirt sayng “Am I a Legitimate Target” in big red letters. I seem to remember that we stood on the back of a Lorry in centre of Lurgan to hold up placards with Fireman, lorry driver, policeman,doctor written on them. Think it was around 1992 in response to the murder of Patsy Gillespie ( the man they tied to the wheel of his Lorry and he had to drive it bomb an all until it blew up).

    I can’t just throw this memorabilia away for some reason.

  • Granni Trixie

    Will you explain to me why if you were extremely dissatisfied with your leader you would not do something about it?

  • Granni Trixie

    You know you could be on to somethng there Mr Greenflag. Just yesterday I was talking to a man in EB who said to me “no insult intended but yer the best of a bad bunch…..sure all they do (MLas) is jiggle about,jiggle about” which he illustrated with two fingers going round and round. I found his remarks terribly funny but maybe I should cry.

  • Granni Trixie

    Mushroom man – you in the dark?

  • Granni Trixie

    There is so much more you could have added to the list …..say concerning “developments” ….

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Now that’s what I call sarcasm!!

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Granni, I would be reluctant to infer any possible irregularity with regard to Peter’s engagement with members of both the local and international business community. Such allegations I have been authoritatively informed on another thread some weeks back are utterly unfounded, or at the very least are well outside any legally acceptable proof. Perhaps in our uninformed doubts regarding his probity we are harbouring vile calumny against the reputation of the entirely innocent and selfless statesman Mushroom person is speaking of, who has already suffered many years of political uncertainty due to the misdeeds of his thoughtless and feckless wife. He deserves our full trust now so he may work tirelessly over the next twenty years to the benefit of all of our fellow citizens. I make no further comment.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Somewhere, Granni, I have some of those paper stickers criticising Bernadette Devlin [as was] from 1968 gifted to me by a very Unionist cousin while I was involved in the PD, and just back, I think, from Derry. I imagine such sarcasm runs in my family……

    In my case its probably fuelled by a deep feeling that all violence is indulgent and utterly counter-productive, for the only thing that will ever get us out of the deep mud hole of our history will be genuine social cohesion. My own pacifism comes not from any masochism (although sometimes even I wonder) but from the pragmatic realisation that nothing else will ever actually work. Thank you for the story.

  • Greenflag 2

    No – The GAA is still an amateur sport for the players which seems very idealistic for a modern sport- particularly one which fills stadiums with 80,000 people . Where all the revenue goes is something I’m sure others know more about than I . I enjoyed playing hurling as a teenager not so much the football and I support the soccer and rugby national teams .

  • Greenflag 2

    ” by the nineteenth century the more enterprising had begun to use dynamite.’

    Theres never a call for that kind of stupid vandalism . The ‘dynamiters ‘ pulled off a similar tactic on the statue of Field Marshal Gough in the Phoenix Park in the 1950’s after which a a vulgar piece of doggerel did the rounds of Dublin . Most people were appalled at the stupid vandalism of what was a fine bronze equestrian statue reputed to be one of the best in Europe .

    From Vinnie Capranis – Rowdy Rhymes and Recimitations

    Neath the horse’s big prick a dynamite stick
    some gallant ‘hayro’ did place,
    For the cause of our land, with a match in his hand
    Bravely the foe he did face;
    Then without showing fear – and standing well clear-
    He expected to blow up the pair
    But he nearly went crackers, all he got was the knackers
    And he made the poor stallion a mare!

    For his tactics were wrong, and the prick was too long
    (the horse being more than a foal)
    It would answer him better, this dynamite setter,
    The stick to shove up his own hole!
    For this is the way our ‘hayroes’ today
    Are challenging England’s might,
    With a stab in the back and a midnight attack
    On a statue that can’t even shite!

    Gough fought with Arthur Wellesley (the Duke of Wellies ) in the Peninsular War . The Duke’s memorial still stands in the Phoenix Park where today the children of Dubliners and new immigrants run up and down the steps and around the four sides of the plinth . Did it myself too when I was a kid long after Winston Churchill did the same back n the 1870’s iirc .

  • Greenflag 2

    The chap in EB could be right at least in his neck of the woods . It is in an utterly ludicrous way funny . As for crying ? nah keep right on to the end of the road /or Assembly and hope for the best but don’t leave it just to hope .

  • Greenflag 2

    a bit ? -understatement of the year – Almost half the population dead and more in the cities . English finally emerged as a language that could compete with the ruling Norman French . Provided empty spots for the rising peasantry -those who survived to demand higher wages and better terms and an increase in living standards . If the pocketful of Posies remedy worked for you and you survived then not a bummer -On the other hand if you were one of the 50% who succumbed then yes a bummer .

    As an aside not many know that some 80% of American fatalities in WW1 were not due to actual conflict -twas the Spanish Flu and not Oberleutnant Von Richthofens depredations . It took 4 years for WW1 to dispose of 20 million the Spanish Flu took anywhere from 22 million to 100 million in 4 months and then just disappeared ?

  • T.E.Lawrence

    Maybe the Dynamiters were not really interested in the Good Field Marshal who fought them Jolly Old Opium Wars in Far Off Eastern Places ! (A few places still named after him in Hong Kong) but more his great great nephew – Lieutenant General Hubert Gough who lead the Curragh Muting in 1914 ! Alas we shall never know as probaly them boys have dynamited to a place further away from our earthly environment ?

  • James7e

    And of course the fact that oftentimes such replica shirts are churned out by impoverished workers in somewhat less than ideal working conditions in the developing world. Not sure if GAA shirts are also a part of that grubby scene, but they may well be.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Greenflag, I am chastened by your rebuke! While I’d been thinking of the rather less bloodthirsty emulators of the boys active in the early 1880s, there is certainly no need to praise those such as IS who would deprive us of these “material culture” expressions of that former imperial greatness in which we all shared. I must also apologise for even this apology. David Crookes has warned me about this kind of thing only yesterday:

    https://disqus.com/home/discussion/sluggerotoole/why_suffer_allegations_of_involvement_with_the_nutting_squad_because_you8217re_worth_it/#comment-2337556787

  • SeaanUiNeill

    T.E., My grandfather fought under Gough at St Quentin where he’d volunteered for the suicide mission (along with another five officers) of being one of those small units charged with holding up the unstoppable German advance of March 1918 to permit the remains of the 36th Division to escape. Only the fact that he was completely disabled by gas while removing his gas mask to site his mortars, and accordingly his battery was captured, ensured that I’d be here today to write this.

    Going from those evening discussions he’d had in the1960s with other officers who had luckily survived Gough’s leadership skills, any statue raised to the memory of Sir Hubert would have not only had to face nationalist ire!

    Mind you, he did volunteer for the Baltic Mission of 1919, another military “adventure” Gough had a decisive hand in.

  • Greenflag 2

    The statue was placed in the Phoenix park in 1880 and remained unmolested till the 1950s. They may have mistook one Gough for another who knows . It may have had something to do with the mid 50’s border campaign I don’t know .
    The same kind of retards vandalise Churches , burn Orange halls , GAA premises ,synagogues, mosques . Brainless gobshites 🙁

  • Greenflag 2

    Rebuke ? nah none intended .

    What ISIS have done to Palmyra is insane -trying to erase their ancient history in the name of their current religious mania. I’m trying to imagine hordes of newly evangelical English or Irish, blowing up Stonehenge or Newgrange , because the builders of pre christian era monuments did’nt recognise Christ’s teachings 2.000 years before he was born ,

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Oh, Greenflag, such effacement does occur. Under one of my several hats I’m a published (amateur) archaeologist with a piece in the UJA! One of my interests is the evangelical vandalisation of ancient sites in Ireland during the nineteenth century and later, of which the British Israelite diggings at Tara would perhaps be the most famous:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tara-Covenant-Discovery-Programme-Reports/dp/0954385527/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1446453848&sr=1-1

    There’s an other example near my home just across the way from the Knockdhu promontory where a cairn was torn apart in the nineteenth century because of possible pagan associations.

  • Greenflag 2

    I’m aware that the new christian religion in Ireland post 432 AD was uncomfortable with pagan monuments from earlier eras and that the new brand of christianity post the Reformation was similarly inclined to erase the ‘past ‘ especially the past of Catholic England and Ireland .

    Thanks for the link re Tara , I was’nt aware of the BI’s dig .
    It was the 19th century . And this is the 21st .

  • T.E.Lawrence

    It would have been interesting to listen to them officers stories about Gough. It would appear he was bitterly resented by your comments Seaan, but I still believe it took balls what he did at the Curragh which could have damaged his military career forever, but I also believe that Sir Henry Wilson was behind him with that regard. He seemed to do OK out of the British Military Society ! Somebody liked him ?
    I suppose the IRA can claim some sort of revenge on Gough (Whichever one they prefair) when they raided and cleaned out Gough Barracks in Armagh back in 1954 !

  • SeaanUiNeill

    T.E., at the time of the 1954 raid my uncle wrote a letter to Templer to upbraid him about security at Gough Barracks. His father was horrified…..

    I have no doubt that Gough was perhaps as brave personally as that “beau sabereur’ Sir Redvers Buller who made such a horlicks of the opening moves to relieve garrisons in the Second Anglo-Boer war in 1900. Military skill and personal courage are not interchangeable concepts. I’d also suggest that Gough had not only Sir Henry Wilson to back him up but most of the Conservative party and large bodies of public opinion, so I’d feel that any real courage shown at that time would have been from those commanders in “Carson’s Army” who knew they faced unquestioned annihilation should their bluff ever be called, as Timothy Bowman so clearly describes:

    http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-ulster-volunteers-1913-1914-force-or-farce/

  • SeaanUiNeill

    But, Greenflag, to misuse the title of a book of essays by that famed Irish poet Robert Graves “But still it goes on….”

    Uncomfortable sited souterrains discovered on good farmland are frequently simply filled in to stop sheep and cattle breaking legs, or nosey Ivory Tower fools such as myself drawing Hill Street’s attention to them. And on and on…..

    On the subject of Reformation vandalism, there’s a great book by A.L. Rowse [known to his intimates as “Rowsie”] about the effacement of much of our heritage by the politically motivated “Saints” of the interregnum:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reflections-Puritan-Revolution-L-Rowse/dp/B00VN0OAMU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446463679&sr=8-1&keywords=a.l+Rowse+reflections+on+the+puritan+revolution

  • mushroom man

    It’s a pretty logical flow: the GFA/St Andrew’s agreement is the one great perfect victory of right over wrong in the North of Ireland. The GFA led to a golden era in the six counties’ governance. Peter Robinson is the one who, from behind a shield of Paisley allowed this great thing to be sold to the Unionist/Loyalist community

  • SeaanUiNeill

    MM, you are obviously simply reading the re-cooked press reports of the parties regurgitated in the daily papers! Those of us who have any direct contact with these people (and incidentally, some of the “real people” in Westminster and the Dáil) are likely to do ourselves a serious injury rolling with laughter at the idea of the last eight years of seedy dictatorial government, rather pointless confrontations in the Chamber and the streets, and of underhand self-interested deals, being praised as “a golden era in the six counties’ governance”. You’ll be telling me that our FM and dFM are “statesman-like” next!

    But you seem to be experiencing such a rich warm glow, I ask again, “where do I find the magic wardrobe?”

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Oh, I get it …..”You ARE Peter Robinson, and I claim my £1,000,000…..”

  • Greenflag 2

    ah the Jolly Old Opium Wars -a.k.a the First Opium War and the Second Opium War. Worth a re reading in light of the current behaviour of the world’s fourth largest bank in the Mexican Drug Cartel field of 50,000 dead est . Interesting that this bank got it’s start from capital accrued in the Opium trade .

    “The deal was announced quietly, just before the holidays, almost like the government was hoping people were too busy hanging stockings by the fireplace to notice. Flooring politicians, lawyers and investigators all over the world, the U.S. Justice Department granted a total walk to executives of the British-based bank HSBC for the largest drug-and-terrorism money-laundering case ever. Yes, they issued a fine – $1.9 billion, or about five weeks’ profit – but they didn’t extract so much as one dollar or one day in jail from any individual, despite a decade of stupefying abuses.

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/gangster-bankers-too-big-to-jail-20130214#ixzz3qQo6s4mn

    And this is the bank that told Prime Minister Cameron and Chancellor Osborne they should go elsewhere if they need to increase tax revenues . Not sure if they told Ozzie that getting rid of tax credits was the solution but at this point it would’nt come as a surprise 🙁

  • T.E.Lawrence

    You missed the most important ingrediant of our good friends of HSBC The Hongmen from that bygone Ming Dynasty !

  • Greenflag 2

    Not missed just taken for granted . I sometimes even mention BOA without mentioning the MAFIA and even CitiGroup without mentioning the Mexican Drug Cartel . As the Rolling Stone article shows and has been seen repeatedly over the past 7 years -the banksters – are still too big to fail and too big to jail . Politicians everywhere are gutless in facing this issue.

  • T.E.Lawrence

    Lets re-phase the last sentence of your post to read “Governments everywhere are gutless in facing this issue. I will just mention one family name Rothschild !

  • Greenflag 2

    Beware conspiracy theories . The actuality is often just ignorance , greed , stupidity , megalomania, all mixed into the chaos of war , famine ,etc .