Cartoon – Hanging by a thread

Gerry Adams cartoon, Brian John Spencer

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  • FuturePhysicist

    Apart from George Galloway are there many want a United Ireland and a United Britain on the basis of principle? All this proves is that unionists are anti-partitionist when it comes to Scotland!

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Has Adams actually declared himself a supporter of Scottish independence?

    I may have misheard him the other day, but I don’t recall him saying anything definitive on where he stands on the matter.

    His glee as he talked about the ‘so-called United Kingdom’, and the union ‘hanging by a thread’ don’t quite amount to a declaration of support for Scottish independence.

    Perhaps he has made such a declaration elsewhere? Can anyone help me out?

  • Charles_Gould

    Unionists believe in a single larger country and nationalists believe in several smaller countries.

  • Charles_Gould

    On the left we in Scotland are concerned about a race to the bottom: if countries do not coordinate their tax policies then Scotland may cut corporation and income tax, and England has to follow suit etc. It’s harder to implement left-friendly policies if you have a lot of small countries in close proximity, racing to the bottom to attract internationally mobile factors of production. Also, multinationals can pick workers off against workers more easily as collective wage bargaining by unions is usually intra-national. So there is a fear the rich will benefit, the poor lose, when you have a lot of small countries rather than a single bigger one.

  • USA

    Charles,
    Is that the case though Charles?
    From an Irish nationalist perspective they would also believe in “a single larger country”, after all 32 counties are larger than 26. The Irish Nationalists also seem quite comfortable with a European Union, therefore they are not against “larger” social, political and economic unions as a matter of principal.

    Indeed it seems the British conservatives are arguing for Union with Scotland but not with Europe. That is inconsistent. As is the DUP / UUP position of pro-partition in Ireland but against partition for Scotland?

    BTW, I believe Adams said it was a matter for the Scottish people. He obviously remains steadfastly against partition in Ireland.

  • Greenflag

    Charles Gould ,

    ‘ So there is a fear the rich will benefit, the poor lose, when you have a lot of small countries rather than a single bigger one.’

    If thats an argument against an independent Scotland then it’s a poor one . In the second largest economy on the planet -i.e the USA the race to the bottom is fastest of all . The reasons are many and not for this thread.

    The race to the bottom is also endemic in the UK and in the EU for the same international economic forces are at work and governments everywhere are powerless (so far ) to protect their peoples against this trend . Barclays of Libor and currency/interest rate change have just announced 12,000 lay offs . What can Mr Cameron do ? or for that matter Mr Salmond?

    USA’s point above re inconsistency stands . There are almost 30 countries in the EU and 18 in the Eurozone. Its the biggest economy on the planet and an independent Scotland would be just one more . It is possible that the UK might well leave the EU although hopefully not .If the UK did leave the EU -Scotland under the present constitutional union would be obliged to follow .

    Scotland is not being partitioned anyway . It’s either all in the UK or all out so any comparison with Ireland does’nt hold.

    I believe Adams said its a matter for the Scottish people and the cartoon above seems to be missing Northern Ireland on the RHS pic . Has it been submerged n the North Channel or is that just the cartoonists wishful thinking ?

  • Charles_Gould

    USA:

    There are many kinds of unionist – EU unionist, UK unionist, all-Ireland unionist. etc.

    GF:

    Small countries tend to have lower tax rates for mobile factors of production.

  • Charles_Gould

    “The Irish Nationalists also seem quite comfortable with a European Union, therefore they are not against “larger” social, political and economic unions as a matter of principal.”

    The most nationalist party (Sinn Féin) have opposed every referendum that extends EU powers, including the original membership referendum, through to Euro Currency and the more recent ones that required a couple of referenda, so I don’t think what you say quite true. It is true of the SDLP, which is the most pro-EU party of them all, I think.

  • USA

    Charles,
    Good point re SF and their lack of enthusiasm for pro-European policies. I was thinking more of the 26 county Nationalists (FF, FG, Labour etc) who were very enthusiastic members of the EU for some time.

  • Greenflag

    ‘I was thinking more of the 26 county Nationalists (FF, FG, Labour etc) who were very enthusiastic members of the EU for some time.’

    True for FF & FG and back in 1972 they together were getting 80% plus of the vote .

    Not true for the Irish Labour Party who opposed EU entry in the first referendum, As also did the country’s largest Trade Union the ITGWU . The left predominantly were anti the then EEC .

    The Irish Labour Party eventually became pro EU and SF will follow in their footsteps eventually.

  • Charles_Gould

    There is a lot of free-market ideology that comes with the EU. The EU laws would prevent certain left-inspired interventions, on the grounds they’re against competition law.

  • Droch_Bhuachaill

    Lets play the IF game for a minute:

    IF Scotland goes Independent & stays within the EU and
    IF The rump UK leaves the EU

    Then the six counties will be surrounded by the EU border without any corridor to the rest of the uk. How would it survive economically?