Gerry Adams: A modern day Richard III who never explains and never apologises…

No one in Irish political journalism does Shakespearean allusion with more flair than John Drennan. He may be wrong about the timing of the end of the Sinn Fein President’s political career, but he’s certainly right that Adams’ career is more easily accounted for by reference to literary as opposed to purely political figures. The Corleones are as sound a reference as Machiavelli. Or, indeed, the late great leader of Fianna Fail:

just like Charlie, who created a Gatsby-style palace of deceit to sustain the illusion of Haughey the modern Irish chieftain, Mr Adams has created a veritable Taj Mahal of illusion to hide the more crimson weave of his past associations.

Within a Dail populated essentially by bank clerks and school teachers Mr Adams is unique for he is no mere TD or politician.
Gerry instead, is a literary figure, an author, a philosopher, a Buddhist who hugs trees and perhaps most important of all, a form of international celebrity.

As with Haughey, Mr Adams’ authority is also enhanced by the manner in which he is surrounded by rumour, fear and, in some cases, awe, for he is – depending on your point of view – either Ireland’s last living war hero or a war criminal.

Of course just like Haughey in his final year, Mr Adams has made it clear he intends to go on and on like one of those Chinese leaders.
But intriguingly, just like Haughey too, it is the women that have done for Adams.

When it came to Haughey, the signature moment which signalled the grass had begun to grow under his feet was the election of Mary Robinson.

In the case of Mr Adams, the first woman who has been the catalyst for his endgame is the unquiet ghost of Jean McConville.
Suddenly after a long hiatus, a young country of Google employees and Superquinn Moms are freshly disgusted by the Grimm gothic tales of Mr Adams’ history.

As the old man himself once said, “Never explain, never apologise”.

  • Dixie Elliott

    “…..A Provisional IRA rape victim, who was subjected to a secret IRA investigation, writes of her anger at Sinn Fein’s Pearse Doherty, who said claims the IRA covered up cases of sex abuse are ‘unfounded and untrue’….”

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sf-knows-that-republicans-investigated-cases-of-abuse-i-know-because-it-happened-to-me-29799024.html

    Gerry Adams to meet woman ‘raped by top republican’

    In response to a request to meet with the victim, sent through the Sunday Independent, Mr Adams replied: “If the person that you have mentioned wishes to meet me I am willing to do so and suggest that person contact my office to arrange such a meeting.

    “…However, please make sure that this person is aware that if an allegation of sexual violence or abuse is communicated to Sinn Fein, the party will be obliged to report this information to the relevant authorities.”

    An offer to meet Sinn Fein vice president Mary Lou McDonald has so far gone unanswered….”

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gerry-adams-to-meet-woman-raped-by-top-republican-29798826.html

    The fanatical response from the Adams’ clique below the 2nd piece is worth a read….

  • Cackle Daily

    Is this is the same John Drennan who said that Gerry Adams would scrape home in the last General Election shortly before he topped the poll?

    Well, he certainly sounds like an unbiased source with his finger on the pulse!

    Also, Mick – your 5th article on Gerry A in a week? as my niece would say ‘get a room!’

    Lest it be said I didn’t comment on the article, here you go; ‘It’s not very clearly written and the Shakespearian allusions are ill thought out’

  • sherdy

    Mick, – This must be the most frustrating job in your journalistic career – the taking down of Gerry Adams.
    No matter how many others whose names you invoke, and whose articles you rehash, and claims of his impending doom you make, he is still in-situ.
    Of course he will retire at some stage, but I fear it will not be due to any pen or dagger wielded by yourself.
    Though, I suppose, if the cheques are still coming in from the British government, you will continue your unfulfilled task.

  • Charles_Gould

    Thing is there are some talented people who *could* take over from Adams very effectively. Think PD or MLM.

  • foyle observer

    Change the record. Slugger is becoming very boring.

  • aquifer

    Nice that people can vote to end these pregnant silences.

  • DC

    Slugger O’Toole and the Independent is Sinn Fein’s ‘Poison Kitchen’.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_Kitchen

    The point being despite some good points being scored against SF and some heavy blows landing on Gerry Adams aka ‘the ‘baddie’, ‘the baddie’ seems to still be winning and will prob win out in the end. A bit like Hitler did in the end in spite of said Poison Kitchen and all its good work pointing out the faults of that particular person and political project.

    This actually isn’t a swipe at Mick’s work or indeed other journalists, it’s just that I don’t think it’s working in any way for some reason..not quite sure why though, but best of luck with all your endeavours in attempting to make the voters see some sense, unlike those of yesteryear in munich lol

  • Cackle Daily

    I suspect the problem is this

    Any SF party member who genuinely wants a leadership debate sees only the same people calling for Gerry to quit who have been calling for Gerry to quit for 30 years.

    If they felt any discomfort about Gerry’s evidence in the recent trial, the DUP triumvirate who reported him to the DPP soon put paid to any lingering doubts. The supporters are not mindless but they will change leaders at a time that suits them. they don’t need the prior approval of Tony O’Reilly.

    Bear in mind this also; whoever replaces Gerry will be hated by these same forces also so why bother changing leader at all?

  • Barnshee

    “Thing is there are some talented people who *could* take over from Adams very effectively. Think PD or MLM.”

    Er –in which fields of activity/areas have these people demonstrated “talents” What were/are these “talents” ?

  • Granni Trixie

    I have to admit that though I lived in in GA constituency for most of my life that I have absolutely no idea why anyone would vote for Him.
    So I may be wrong in saying that his day has come and that currently those around him are looking for away out to replace him.

  • sean treacy

    ELLIOT,I see you are using independent news and media and their usual suspects as your bible.Just shows how low you and your Disso cronies will go.

  • Charles_Gould

    Granni Trixie

    Don’t you think he can brazen it out? He did with the Northern Bank robbery and the slaughter of Robert McCartney in 2005.

  • Mickish

    mick your witch hunt against gerry Adams knows no bounds,whos payroll are you really on?You know mick,when the smoke settles you will still be remembered for this for a long time to come,hope Michael Martin and his cronies are still in buisness to come to your defence!!!

  • fordprefect

    Cackle Daily
    “as my niece would say ‘get a room!”
    As Gerry’s niece said: “please help me uncle” and he didn’t.

  • Cackle Daily

    You almost have a fair point. If Gerry had done absolutely nothing then I would say ‘fair cop guv’ but he did tell her to report it to the police.

    Now – his actions after this point leave a hell of a lot to be desired but do you understand that when I see Edwin Poots or Jeffrey Donaldson going to the DPP I have reason to suspect their motives might not be entirely motivated by child welfare?

  • fordprefect

    Machiavelli wouldn’t get a look in compared to Adams. I know you’ll get the usual shite about, if he said he was in the IRA he’ll get charged etc. I’m not talking about that, I’m talking about the lies he told to everyone, from his family to IRA vol’s (IRA vol’s that went on to get killed because they listened to the bullshit spouted by Adams and McGuinness, like, “the war will never stop while the British are in our country” and “not an ounce”) and all the while these two snake oil salesmen knew what the outcome was going to be.

  • Charles_Gould

    Barnshee

    “Er –in which fields of activity/areas have these people [MLM and PD] demonstrated “talents” What were/are these “talents” ?”

    MLM in particular is good in the Dail and on the media.

  • Charles_Gould

    fordprefect

    Do you think he should just admit everything and go to prison for two years? It might be quicker and it would be a means towards redemption.

  • Barney

    Fordprefect wrote

    “Machiavelli wouldn’t get a look in compared to Adams.”

    Man you are elevating Mr Adams well beyond his abilities………

  • New Yorker

    If you don’t think Adams is a villain and a clown you find these articles boring. If you find him a villain and clown you appreciate the drama of such a person getting his comeuppance and seeing justice done. If you don’t get the drama and complain it is boring, you are a bore.

  • fordprefect

    Cackle Daily
    No, I have got a fair point, although I do agree with you that Poots and Donaldson’s motives were less than philanthropic when they reported Adams, and more to do with scoring political points.

  • Barney

    What happens if you find Adams a clown and also think these threads are boring?

    As I have stated before if adams is to be investigated for this rape I look forward to the state authorities investigating all family members of survivors of incest.

  • Cackle Daily

    It’s not that the articles are – in themselves – boring; it’s just that it’s the same people who have been calling for Gerry to quit for a long time. You talk about drama; in what sense or on what planet is someone from the Indy calling for Gerry to quit ‘dramatic’.

    Likewise, in a few days Cuddly Dudley will pop up with her ‘I hate Gerry Adams’ piece – a few days after that Anthony McIntyre will have 600 words in the Guardian or why this is the last desperate stirrings of Sinn Fein. and so on and so on. If this is drama, you should really stay in more

  • fordprefect

    Barney
    LOL!

  • fordprefect

    Charles Gould
    “Do you think he should just admit everything and go to prison for two years? It might be quicker and it would be a means towards redemption”.
    No. I don’t want to see anyone going to prison. I felt humbled last week when I watched Jude White saying that he didn’t want to ruin some middle aged man’s life, nor the life of his family, if he were sent to gaol for killing his mother and a policeman. That was powerful stuff. As you will have gathered, I haven’t much time for Adams or the clique he has around him, but, if he has to admit all that he was involved in, then so do the British establishment.

  • New Yorker

    Cackle Daily

    This is basic drama where the evil villain is finally taken down. Our gut tells us it is bound to happen but we don’t know when and so every morsel captures our attention. Innately most believe there is a cosmic justice that must ultimately be satisfied. Again, if you don’t think Adams a villain, then it is boring. But many people think he is a villain and therefore there are articles on his problems across media and many people follow it because they just know eventually he will get what is coming to him. This type of drama is in children’s stories, in novels, in plays and occasionally in real life. Here in the US everyone was glued to their TVs and newspapers during Watergate and the grand finale was Nixon being flown out of Washington after being forced to resign.

  • Cackle Daily

    I believe Gerry Adams is a lot of things (not all of them good) but I think by describing him as an ‘evil villain’ you are slipping into hyperbole, similar to that shown in Drennan’s original article. And thus trying to imbue an inert script with drama it hardly warrants.
    The comparison with Watergate though is an instructive one – over the course of three years came a drip drip drip of revelations (in the midst of which, Nixon won re-election by a landslide) that ultimately saw him chased from office.
    Now, the anti-Adams journalists have had a 27 year head start on Woodward and Bernstein and how far has that got them? In three years, the Washington Post removed the most powerful man in the world from office. In 30, the Indy has seen Adam’s approval ratings climb.

    I am not saying there is no story. I am not saying that people cannot call for Gerry to resign. I am trying to say that when it is the same people who have been saying the same thing since he was elected then what is the point of this new story (or the four that preceded it this week)?

  • Barnshee

    “MLM in particular is good in the Dail and on the media.”

    Politicians are generally very good at

    Not answering the question posed
    Changing the subject
    Suffering convenient lapses of memory
    Lying in their teeth

    Or being ” good in the Dail and on the media.” as others may describe it

  • Cackle Daily,
    here’s something that might lift the boredom of these threads. In the days before the last election in the south, the same journalist in the same paper confidently predicted “Baron Adams” would not get elected:

    http://goo.gl/wafFv1

  • megatron

    What would everyone say if GA was killed by a bus tomorrow (other than what spy was driving the bus!).

    My take – much more good than bad. As a SF supporter I think it is time for him to step aside but I am frustrated by the focus on the negative sides.

    No other political leader on the island gets such a one sided treatment by the media.

  • Sp12

    Ulick
    http://goo.gl/wafFv1

    I like the bits

    “The Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams is struggling to avoid a humiliating defeat in the constituency of Louth.”
    “And local sources said the ‘transfer repellent’ status of the ‘British Baron’ means his election is far from certain.”

    Columnists, for when you want to try and shape the news rather than just report it.

  • Barnshee

    “No other political leader on the island gets such a one sided treatment by the media.”

    What other leader has there been (recently) where it is alleged they were

    a liar (never in the IRA etc)
    involved in/ordering the murder of a mother 10

    And these by by his own former ” colleagues” ?

  • Greenflag

    @ DC & Others who may be mystified as why Mr Adams is not vilified by the vast majority of Irish Republican & Nationalist voters in Northern Ireland and why he was elected top of the poll in Co Louth for the Dail .

    @ DC “This actually isn’t a swipe at Mick’s work or indeed other journalists, it’s just that I don’t think it’s working in any way for some reason..not quite sure why though,

    Simple . Adams is not Richard III , nor Hitler nor Machivelli and while Shakespeare might have found Gerry Adams an interesting character to introduce into one of his plays -the fact is Mr Shakespeare is deceased and will not be writing any more plays .

    We are now discovering courtesy of British historians and not via Mr Shakespeare’s ‘propaganda ‘ that Richard III was not the vile sociopath as depicted by his Tudor successors . According to the author of the Plantagenets -Daniel Johns -Henry VIII a.k.a Good King Hal was much more a ‘monster ‘ in human form and even Good Queen Bess was not a nice person either but then neither was Bernie Madoff .

    As the British and Unionist press and fellow travellers in the Republic’s established parties continue to denigrate Adams whenever an opportunity presents itself – it will eventually backfire to Mr Adams benefit of that you can be sure .

    Irish history is more than replete with British contrived deliberate distortions of any Irish revolutionary or freedom fighter Catholic or Protestant . The biography’s of Daniel O’Connell , Charles Stewart Parnell , Tone , the Fenians , the Young Irelanders , the 1916 leaders , Roger Casement , John Mitchell and many others are replete with evidence of British establishment attempts to denigrate individuals in the hope that they would be brought down by their fellow Irish nationals -Thus ‘decapitated ‘ the Irish would be tamed or rendered more tameable to British imperial interests . Very often these British efforts succeeded some even with the abetting of the Irish RC hierarchy in the case of the Fenians and Parnell anyway..

    The very last thing Mr Adams should do now is resign .For you can bet your last pound sterling that if he did the ‘british & unionist press ‘ will find another target and another and another -for that is the only way left for the British predatory classes to slow down or delay what many see as inevitable i.e a British political withdrawal from Northern Ireland .

    I would expect Mr Adams to resign from politics in the same manner as the Rev Paisley did -at a time of his own choosing (or so we’re told ) .

    The fight for complete Irish political independence from Britain will continue by peaceful political means in the meantime and will continue even in the absence of Mr Adams or others .

    Of that we can all be sure .

  • GEF

    Seems the interest in SF, its leader GA and IRA past history is high on the list for documentaries down south. This is the 2nd one on TV3 in the past few weeks.

    “Documentary examines the ‘cult’ of Sinn Fein”
    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/documentary-examines-the-cult-of-sinn-fein-1-5721670

  • Greenflag

    @ SP12,

    The Freeman’s Journal a.k.a The Irish Independent is still alive and kicking . They did’nt like the Dublin poor in 1913 either or their Trade Unionist fathers striking for a livable wage . . And along with the Irish Catholic hierarchy William Martin Murphy , unctious hypocrite that he was – would have preferred the poor children of Dubliners starve to death in Dublin than be fed and clothed in British Trade Unionist homes across the water .

    The predatory class remains the predatory class be they in Dublin , Wall St , or the City of London or Berlin or Moscow or even Belfast .

  • Greenflag

    @ GEF ,

    Not surprising . They (FG & Labour ) can’t afford to leave it too close to the next general election . When the next election does take place you can be sure there will be many re runs -short excerpts -juicy snippets etc from these documentaries -directed at those with short attention spans and more concerned with whether they should trade in the car for a newer model or buy the latest smart phone .

    BTW

    What sort of a cult gets 29% of the vote in the elections in NI ?

    Could the FG party in the 2002 General . Could FG have been also a cult given they got only 27.5% in that election ?

    Meanwhile SF in that election got almost as many popular votes as the PD’s and the Green Party combined ? And in the next Dail election most ‘neutral ‘ pundits expect SF to swamp Labour perhaps by 3 to 1 in popular votes .

    Arrivederci Signor Gilmore

  • Mick Fealty

    GF,

    So, let me get this clear. Your ‘on topic’ pitch here is that Richard iii was an innocent man, and so is Gerry?

    There’s so much freshly introduced oil on this pitch it’s a wonder anyone can stand upright on it.

    But realistically, RIII was a pre-modern King. They did do ‘that sort of thing’, Tudor propaganda or no Tudor propaganda.

    By ‘that sort of thing’ I mean, murder, betrayal and all the rest. Good King Hal’s da Henry VII was much more adept and strategic with his killings.

    The point is that Adams’ role within in the IRA was almost certainly of this pre modern type of leadership. “Harsh things had to be done for the cause, like it or not”.

    The need to operate utmost secrecy from the state forced out actions that would sit better in a novel as in non fiction. Freddo and Michael, anyone?

  • Mc Slaggart

    Mick

    “Adams’ role within in the IRA was almost certainly ”

    Do you mean you do not know?

  • Greenflag

    Mick ,

    I did’nt state that Richard III was innocent nor that Gerry Adams was . I don’t know where you draw the line between modern and pre modern ? Was Stalin pre modern / Hitler ? Sukarno ? Idi Amin ? Saddam Hussein ? Menachem Begin ?

    Freshly introduced oil ? Nothing fresh about it other than the format . Anyone who has any idea of how uncivil -civil wars or conflicts are fought in the modern age should take a look at Syria or Gaza or the Balkans or Israel in it’s war against the British in Palestine .Queensberry rules don’t apply -never mind the Geneva convention . Check with Guantanamo and see how it’s complying with the Geneva Convention ?

    I agree with other commenters here that the focus on Adams is predominantly politically motivated and nothing else . If I ever see the same focus brought to bear on the British authorities responsible for law and order in the Province during those troubled years I might think otherwise .

    I guess you might also consider the current Chinese leadership ‘pre modern ‘ given the methods used against the Tianemen Square protesters ?

    In the meantime carry on up the Khyber or wherever you are going with the fresh oil ..

    One further thought -oil – fresh or no -is flammable and Northern Ireland is not unknown for having decades of flammable material ready to ignite given half a chance .

  • Mick Fealty

    Oil being the not so subtle shift from what Drennan said to who he is.

  • Mick Fealty

    McS,

    As you very well know, dead men tell no lies.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Mick

    “As you very well know, dead men tell no lies.”

    Our world is built on the lies of dead men.

    Revelation 21 tells us that “God” hates cowards so go on speak plain on your view of Mr Adams activities.

  • socaire

    I think that it’s about time that – as the rural folk say – the buck was put to the brae. Adams has been pilloried from the lowest to the highest of our keyboard pontificos about not reporting his brother’s alleged misdeeds to the police. How many of the posters who KNOW that Adams was in the IRA have gone to the police with their knowledge of a crime having been committed? We’ll start with you ,Mick.

  • Greenflag

    All political pundits make forecasting errors but Drennan is in a league of his own when he’s forecasting or should that be doomnaying? SF/Gerry Adams election results etc . If Drennan were tipping the winning horse in a snail race he might win -but and I say this in all sincerity -I would’nt bet on it .

  • sherdy

    socaire, – Easy on, easy on. I think you’re being very hard on Mick.
    You want him to have the courage of his convictions and actually do something, when you know he’s a journalist whose only weapon is his poison pen (or keyboard).
    You can’t expect him to stick his head above the parapet, so I ask you to have a bit more charity and compassion.
    You’re supposed to do what he says, not what he does, or doesn’t do!

  • Alias

    “How many of the posters who KNOW that Adams was in the IRA have gone to the police with their knowledge of a crime having been committed?”

    There are a lot of theories about why Adams denies being a member of PIRA and my theory is that his handlers instructed him to deny it as their way of having a bloody good belly laugh at the thick paddies who would believe him…

  • sean treacy

    socaire,sherdy ,careful now or Mick will accuse you of playing the man instead of the ball and without the slightest hint of irony!

  • sean treacy

    Please remember everyone that Mick is bound to know everything about Gerry and the IRA.Growing up in North Down his interaction with republicanism at the height of the conflict had to be on a scale the rest of us could only imagine!

  • Morpheus

    “…my theory is that his handlers instructed him to deny it as their way of having a bloody good belly laugh at the thick paddies who would believe him…”

    The same handlers who controlled everything but didn’t control everything at the same time? The tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories that all this was some sort of master plan by British Intelligence are hilarious.

  • Greenflag

    @Alias ,

    “and my theory is that his handlers instructed him to deny it as their way of having a bloody good belly laugh at the thick paddies who would believe him”

    So what makes Alias believe that the ‘thick paddies ‘ believe what Alias says they believe ? Perhaps they don’t care for Alias’es theoretical handlers or perhaps they prefer the handlers to believe what the handlers want to believe they believe ? The only belly laughs round here are emanating from those in the republican and nationalist camps it seems .

    Bad form though for Alias to refer to ‘thick paddies ‘ on a blog like slugger .I wonder if you forgot to include yourself in that description . And are these ‘thick ‘ paddies catholic or protestant or both ? Would they be from North or South or both ?

    Another brilliant theory of Alias’s seen for what it is – in this instance Alias is just regurgitating his ‘handlers ‘ mantras as to what he believes about whatever it is that makes him believe it even if he can’t prove it .

  • Politico68

    Here ye are again, I dont know whether to Yawn, Cry, Laugh or increase my caffeine intake. The efforts to take down Adams are really gathering apace but u might as well be shooting a water pistol at a steel wall.

    The definition of insanity apparently is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different outcome. No sign of Gerry moving on so I guess Mick and the other dodgy commentators will be totally lunatic pretty soon.

    As an abuse survivor myself, I cannot understand for the life of my how people can live with themselves, abusing victims in order to attain a political goal. Its beyond shocking.

  • Mark

    Alias is the biggest troll on this site . He’s anti Irish and at this stage he doesn’t even bother hiding it . With his pictures of the Tri colour with farm animals ( wonder what his reaction would be if someone posted the star of david with a bunch grunting pigs ) and the latest ” thick paddies ” comment . It’s gas because this is the same Alias who left the site a while back because he claimed a certain poster was making racist remarks about a particular part of one’s face associated with a certain nation .

    He wrote a sad post to Mr Fealty ( as he put it ) which was whipped down after a few minutes declaring he would never be back on SOT as Mr Fealty had allowed him to be racially bullied . Pathetic really when you think about it ……..

  • Mark

    Gave you a tick Greenflag as your post was spot on . Tried replying myself to Alias’s ” thick paddies ” insult … don’t see it on the thread ?

  • Mark

    Ah there it is .

  • Republic of Connaught

    Alias might come out with some outrageous conspiracy theories but he’s usually worth reading.

    And the ‘thick Paddy’ quip is understandable insofar as he is from Dublin and probably regards all beyond the pale as thick Paddies as opposed to enlightened jackeens. 🙂

  • Politico68

    I feel sorry for folk like Alias, but I don’t get nasty about him simply because I like to think its not in my nature. He is afflicted in some way and it should be pitied not scorned.

  • Alias

    “He wrote a sad post to Mr Fealty ( as he put it ) which was whipped down after a few minutes declaring he would never be back on SOT as Mr Fealty had allowed him to be racially bullied . Pathetic really when you think about it ……..”

    That is pure invention. 100% lies.

    And while you are most definitely trolling, it is not trolling to state that anyone who believes Gerry Adams when he denies being a member of PIRA is a thick paddy. It is fact.

    In reality, I’ve never met anyone who believes him. If a bunch of brown-nosers on Slugger want to make utter fools of themselves by showing a cult-like devotion to their leader then that is their right and pitiful business.

    It might be a redeeming feature if they were actually being paid to parade around as gullible toadies but the sad fact is the devotees actually volunteer their services for free.

  • Alias

    “Alias might come out with some outrageous conspiracy theories but he’s usually worth reading.”

    Well, of course, it is also a conspiracy theory that the leadership of the Shinners were conspiring with agencies of the British state to undermine PIRA’s murger camapign from within and doing so behind the backs of their own membership (who were the last to know about it). 😉

  • Sp12

    “And while you are most definitely trolling, it is not trolling to state that anyone who believes Gerry Adams when he denies being a member of PIRA is a thick paddy. It is fact.”

    ahhh, the good old internet, where some folk have difficulty distinguishing the difference between a personal opinion and fact.

  • Mark

    Pure invention …100% lies …

    Really Alias , Did you and a poster with the moniker Munsterview not have a heated row one night where you claimed he referred to ” hooked noses ” in a post he wrote . Your a liar Alias and I tell you why . You wrote that post declaring you were leaving for reasons I stated above . When I read it I replied by asking you not to leave the site . So did a poster called Brian . You then posted back that neither Brian nor I had upset you that night . At that stage your original post was pulled .

    That was when you were witty , intelligent , funny .But since that night you have become slowly but surely anti Irish . You refer to the Nationalist community as Catholic murder gangs . Im not the first poster to call you out on it and I won’t be the last .

    Didn’t Mr Fealty (as you put it ) also call you anti Irish ?

  • Mark

    Rep of Conn ,

    Alias isnt a Dubliner . He might live there at the moment but the ” thick paddies ” comment is something we’ve had to listen to for years from our friends accross the water . The stereotype Irishman which Alias loves to put down . If anyone here referred to Alias in a non PC way when describing him as Jewish , they’d be carded .

  • Alias

    “”ahhh, the good old internet, where some folk have difficulty distinguishing the difference between a personal opinion and fact.”” – SP12

    You ought to acquaint yourself with the definition of a fact before rushing to the defence of your cult’s leader with a banal and meaningless cliché.

    There is more than enough evidence to convict Mr Adams of PIRA membership and far too much evidence for any reasonable person to conclude that Mr Adams that the proposition is other than factual.

    It also happens to be a fact shared by Irish Taoisigh, foreign ministers, justice ministers, Garda and intelligence agencies. Only the opinion of a senior Garda officer is required to convict Mr Adams of PIRA membership in the Special Criminal Court.

    You could conclude that Irish Taoisigh, foreign ministers, justice ministers, Garda and intelligence agencies were all lying when they stated that Mr Adams is a member of PIRA and that is why he was never prosecuted on the opinion of a senior Garda officer as dozens of other PIRA members have been but the reason is likely to be that Mr Adams handlers are protecting their protected species.

    “Didn’t Mr Fealty (as you put it ) also call you anti Irish ?” – Mark

    Never seen the post if he did. I very much doubt it.

    “You wrote that post declaring you were leaving for reasons I stated above .” – Mark

    Again, pure invention. That never happened.

    I can very easily prove you are lying by simply linking to the last exchange of posts between Munsterview and I. Munsterview was mad as a hatter but I held a soft spot for him despite his odious anti-Semticism.

    He got banned from Slugger on that thread linked above and it is very apparent that there was only banter between us there (from me anyway). I think I got the better of it with this (great little) post:

    “If such posters do indeed sincerely believe what they contend, that slugger is of minor importance in the overall scheme of things, and yet expend so much time and effort in detailed, participatory, posts, then the only logical conclusion is there are some sad lives out there, some very sad lives indeed!” – Munsterview

    “True, I’m so boring that even my local parish priest yawns during my confession. And as a Jew, I only go to confession because no one will listen to me. I had to nail his door on the box shut to stop him from bolting! Even my dog yawns when I get home. I even bought a parrot just to have ‘someone’ to talk to but all it ever said was “Would you ever shut the fu*k up!” It’s all very sad, really. I remember gate-crashing a wake and someone pointed at me and said “Who put the corpse sitting up?” Is it any wonder I have such low self-esteem? Hardly. It got so bad that one time I phoned The Samaritans but they just hung up. Jehovah’s Witnesses make their excuses and leave. I wish I could be a radical subversive, dedicating my spare time to promoting an establishment party in a mandatory coalition but nothing that exciting could ever happen to me. Hell, I’d go take my dog for a walk right now but it insists on going for walkies alone. I’m the kind of guy that ends up killing his neighbour’s family with an axe and arranges their dismembered corpses in satanic poses on the front lawn” – Alias

    Mick Fealty, banned him for his own reasons which he states on the linked thread, and even posted this reply to my post (quoted above) “Alias, pure brilliance!” so I think that shows it was only banter on my part.

    “That was when you were witty , intelligent , funny .” – Mark

    You’ve side-tracked the thread enough, so I’m off before cards start ‘getting gev out’. 😉

  • mac tire

    Now Alias, that’s twice you used “thick paddy” on this thread.

    You know this is seen, by the vast majority of Irish people, as an offensive remark. You are attempting to be offensive. As others have pointed out, if this was used in other contexts you would be in trouble, not only with Mick but with the law.

    Why not retract it and admit you are wrong. It’s irrelevant that people have differing views on Mr. Adams. It’s not irrelevant that you have resorted to this low.

    Tá carta buí de dhíth.

  • Alias

    I can understand all the drama queen stuff. It’s the same reason the mob is ganging up on Mick Fealty on this thread.

    But it is only drama queen stuff as can be shown:

    “There are a lot of theories about why Adams denies being a member of PIRA and my theory is that his handlers instructed him to deny it as their way of having a bloody good belly laugh at the thick paddies who would believe him.”

    The “thick paddies” is how Adams’ British state handlers would see those poor gullible toadies who believe his denials of PIRA membership. It is not stated that I or anyone else who see them as paddies, rather just as rather thick. But as I already said, I’ve never met anyone who does actually believe those denials.

    You can try to broaden the reference all you want as part of your ‘play the man’ routine but that is just more dishonest service on behalf of the cult leader.

    Does that clear it up for you?

  • Sp12

    “You ought to acquaint yourself with the definition of a fact before rushing to the defence of your cult’s leader with a banal and meaningless cliché.”

    I’m not a shinner, if anything I’m a stoop 🙂
    And lengthy boring diatribes don’t change personal opinions into facts. Particularly as the point of contention isn’t whether Adams was in the ra or not, but your assertion
    “that anyone who believes Gerry Adams when he denies being a member of PIRA is a thick paddy. It is fact.”

    That’s a personal opinion. Not a fact my friend.

  • babyface finlayson

    Mark
    “Alias is the biggest troll on this site”
    Maybe but he is quite good at it.
    Let’s face it slugger would be less appealing were it all polite respectful, beard-stroking discourse.
    It can’t be all porridge and no sugar.

  • Mark

    Maybe but he’s quite good at it ….

    babyface – I’m all for porridge , sugar and the cream and have found Alias very entertaining in the past . The thick paddies joke crossed a line for reasons stated above by myself and others . When someone has to be right all the time , his entertainment value becomes non existant …. in my opinion .

  • Sp12

    “The thick paddies joke crossed a line”

    No, that line is non-existent on Slugger, broad sweeping, insulting generalisations about Nationalists/Irish/cultists/sheep are ok, as Alias has demonstrated consistently.
    But ffs, don’t say anything dismissive about working class prods out rioting, you’ll get carded

  • tacapall

    Alias is exercising his freedom of expression, and im sure he has no problems people connecting big noses and usury to Jews anymore than he feels associating stupidity with Irish people is fine and its not as if its a myth about usury and Jews, they have been banished from almost every country in the world for it they were even banished from Britain for 100s of years. Ireland is one of only a few countries who haven’t gone to those extremes. Theres the thanks you get, your race is called thick.

  • Reader

    tacapall:Theres the thanks you get, your race is called thick.
    I don’t think the Irish are a race. But, supposing that we are, he is only saying that very few (those who truly believe Gerry Adams) are thick. That may not be 100% correct, but it’s surely not very far off.

  • Mick Fealty

    I spent yesterday in bed with a bad dose of manflu. So I missed most of this or was too poorly to intervene earlier (much to my regret).

    Here’s Chris Dillow on generation differences:

    My generation are, more than others, ironists. Perhaps because we saw traditional class, gender and racial roles as forms of oppression to escape from, we see a distance between ourselves and our beliefs and identities. It’s no accident that younger people – who have closed the gap between self and identity – are much more likely than us to have tattoos. And it’s also no accident that when someone claims to take “offense”, it’s someone of my age who tells them to f*** off.

    Now, here’s the thing. ‘Offence’ is rarely the problem that gets you slung out of Slugger. Lying about others, impersonation, and, erm, playing the man rather than the ball will all eventually lead to getting chucked off.

    The primary problem here is that very few of you want to talk about the subject raised in the post. That’s fine, I did not blog it for sake of my own ego. If it’s met with polite silence, that’s fine.

    I thought it was good value because, whilst as I noted in the OP I don’t sense the same timelines apply to Gerry as Charlie, it matches themes I’d privately noted regarding the events in and around GA: ie that in the case of a man who cannot answer a direct question about his past, political or otherwise, we are moving away from the area of fact to fiction, literary or otherwise.

    Do I know he was a senior figure in the IRA?

    Well, on balance only fool would suggest otherwise (since no one but the man himself is suggesting he wasn’t). And we have the full body count for that campaign as testimony to the ruthless and often personal nature of that campaign.

    As for where the dividing line between Pre modern and modern I was sort of riffing off Robert Cooper’s models from a few years back, which he describes as ‘failing states’.

    For me, England shifts from failing to secure in that transition between Richard III and Henry VII who whatever his failings was the first to bring some kind of common governance to the English state.

    Without his bureaucratic strong-arming there would not have been an England to host a civil war 150 odd years later.

    Last word to Drennan:

    …like Shakespeare’s hunchbacked Richard III, Mr Adams has managed to evade all allegations about his ”naked villainy, With odd old ends stol’n out of holy writ; And seem a saint, when most I play the devil”.

  • babyface finlayson

    Sp12
    Come off it.
    Remember your wee spoof about the loyalists based on the Old Spice ad, only you changed it to old spide?
    That was a good one.

  • Sp12

    “Remember your wee spoof about the loyalists based on the Old Spice ad, only you changed it to old spide?”

    Actually, fair point, I’d forgotten about that. 🙂

    I guess what I’m saying is that if I get carded by Mick for referring to ‘the DUP winding up WKD swigging proles’, which is offensive I’ll grant you, but not as offensive as the fleggers wrecking the place for the last year.
    I’m amazed (well, not really) that Alias can get away for a few years referring to nationalists as sheep, cultists, drones, idiots etc and it all being written off as healthy debate.

  • sean treacy

    Mick,40 years ago when I was at the pinnacle of my educational journey,my o level English teacher (an absolute thug and out and out stoop by the way),gave me a piece of advice which I have followed to this day:”never write about something you know nothing about” I contend that you know nothing about Gerry Adams or republicanism and that oaf Drennan even less.If that constitutes “playing the man” then ban me but don’t insult me by pretending that your unrelenting onslaught against Adams has been anything but “man playing” a thousand times over.

  • Alias

    “…he is only saying that very few (those who truly believe Gerry Adams) are thick. That may not be 100% correct, but it’s surely not very far off.” – Reader

    I think most of them grasp that but have chosen to broaden it to ‘the entire Irish race’ so that they can defend the cult leader by taking pot shots at the messenger. Basically, said entire Irish race is invited to join the mob in attacking said messenger (and defending said cult leader).

    It’s a great illustration in miniature of the help that Gerry ‘Houdini’ Adams gets to pull it off. It isn’t that he is a skilled magician (no one really believes his act): it is that a section of the audience is conditioned to stand up mid-show and to proclaim how great he is and what an amazing spectacle is on stage before them. It is not so much being invited to suspend disbelief as being ordered to. Take away the vocal devotees (who are far too eager to make fools out of themselves in service of the leader) and you’re left with an unfunny version of Tommy Cooper.

  • Mick Fealty

    sean,

    This not playing the man:

    “I contend that you know nothing about Gerry Adams or republicanism and that oaf Drennan even less.”

    It’s contentless guff.

  • socaire

    It has moved on now to the point where it doesn’t matter what people believe about Adams but whether or not we will be dictated to about what we want to believe. And, anyway, whose business is it if he wants to keep his role in a secret army secret. Certainly not the trolls who have hidden under stones for the last 40 years and see all facets of republicanism as ridiculous in their new birth as citizens of the world and guardian readers.

  • Mick Fealty

    Soc,

    “whether or not we will be dictated to about what we want to believe..”

    This is the precise (and I dare say intended) corollary of the ‘two narratives’ thing. “I say this, but you may say that”.

    From Arkiv:

    …the real danger of exclusivist and exclusionary memories is not in simple forgetting, as Renan saw as lying at the heart of nationalism. That is to say, it is not so much that nations forget their pasts; rather, they select stories to highlight that suit their present purposes.

    In other words, it is not necessarily historical rewriting or falsification as much as a ‘strategic selection of expedient recollections’ that characterizes the politicization of the past.

    Again, recollection, recall, memory can be the key mechanism that facilitates this. And, again, we often see this organized revision or reframing of the past in Northern Ireland through the avoidance of accountability and the promotion of amnesty or the valorization of self-exculpatory myths of inevitability arguably serve as local examples.[link added]

    ‘The avoidance of accountability’ is the primary difficulty. It’s what gives Sean’s jibe that those of us not on the inside of the Republican movement ‘know nothing’ – and therefore have no right to speak about it – a veneer of plausibility. I’m more than happy to admit to that ignorance, and an inability to really understand why some decisions were made.

    But it arises out of the fact that the SF movement has not made itself accountable in the way other political parties engaged in democratic politics have.

    The two narrative meme insinuates the idea there are just two versions of history, each intact, whole and wholly political. And each invulnerable to correction of revision.

    Again from Arkiv:

    Memory, Assmann argues, often acts like a club: ‘The only memory that is important is the guilt of the other, and establishing that guilt is seen as wiping out one’s own guilt’. While she speaks explicitly to the idea of a club as something to hit one’s opponents, of course, as alluded to above, national identity is itself a kind of selective memory club, defining what narratives and beliefs about the past are acceptable and which are taboo.

    One last thing. It may taboo for some to talk about GA in less than adulatory terms, but he is still a public figure. None of this ‘trolling’, as you call it, would be in the least bit necessary if Mr A stopped tomorrow making such tangibly false claims about the past.

    Nor would it be such an important slice of Irish politics if the party had moved on and done other things that it could claim as a tangible post conflict achievement.

  • Paramo

    Mick, of course, is entirely neutral in his viewpoint, doesn’t suffer from selective memories – and doesn’t cherry pick articles to reblog that fit with his transparent agenda. Not at all.

    There was an opinion piece in the Irish Times the other day about Adams and his legacy. Written by Vincent Browne, who is a man of considerable integrity, and no friend of Sinn Fein or Provoism. He did not, however, fall into the simplistic “evil Gerry” narrative seen here. He even was willing to state that anyone might think twice before reporting a member of their family to the authorities for sex abuse. It also acknowledges the terrible risks that Adams took for peace. His centrality to the peace process.

    The article is linked below. I thought, that given the obsessive reblogging and reposting of “incisive”, “forensic” and “witty” analyses regarding Gerry Adams and the legacy of the troubles that it might have made it onto this website. Sadly it appears that some people are willing to let their selective memories and perspectives colour whatever journalistic integrity they ever had.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/gerry-adams-s-ira-past-crucial-to-peace-1.1608220

  • sean treacy

    Mick,you tell Gerry to stop making tangibly false claims about his past while quoting ad nauseum from “arkiv”.Perhaps you could give us a look at the make up of “arciv”,some of whose members once belonged to an outfit described by Ed Maloney(no friend of SF) as : “the biggest lie in the history of Irish politics”

  • Dixie Elliott

    sean tracey said… parroting comical Marty and his dissident journalists ….

    “ELLIOT,I see you are using independent news and media and their usual suspects as your bible.Just shows how low you and your Disso cronies will go.”

    I remember a few years back, the Irish News was kicking up a fuss about the AndyTown News being the only newspaper in the North which was funded by the British Exchequer.

    No matter how much crap you throw out it doesn’t take away from the fact that the British have been pumping millions into everything connected to PSF and you don’t pay for something that isn’t working in your best interests.

    No wonder Marty shook the Queens hand and wished her husband well when he took ill…

    You don’t bite the hand that feeds you sean tracey… You shake it.

  • Dixie Elliott

    It’s not just Slugger where his happens but across the http://www...

    Mention Gerry’s past, present or future in terms not agreeable to the industrial wage earning Adamsites and they’re off…

  • Mick Fealty

    Sean,

    “Perhaps you could give us a look at the make up of “arciv”, some of whose members once belonged..”

    More guff? (http://goo.gl/nNvDQ) Now this is NOT offensive, but it IS a flagrant attempt to avoid discussion.

    If you cannot bring yourself to argue on the point, then I’m afraid the cards are coming out!

  • Mick Fealty

    Paramo,

    What do you think I SHOULD have blogged from Vincent’s piece? (I do confess that I did make a conscious decision not to blog it at the time)…

  • sean treacy

    The journalists that you and your ilk crawl to are no”dissidents.They are anti republican to the core and are to be found throughout oBriens media empire and the British right wing trash tabloids.They use you as useful idiots and your temporary reward is to see SF in the eye of the storm.But mark my words Dixie if they were ever to be successful in their destroy SF mission you and your political friends would be cast aside and then subject to the same treatment.They despise republicanism in all its forms

  • Charles_Gould

    It may be that the peace process now needs a higher level of honesty then in its earlier stages. We are getting more truth coming out from various people and this is generating a sense that previous non-truths aren’t as tolerable as before – our standards are increasing.

  • sean treacy

    Mick ,you use “Arciv” to call Adams a liar. I reply that some “Arciv” members could be in glass houses with regard to political movements with a dodgy past.How is that”avoiding discussion”?

  • socaire

    Mick, if a tenant/lodger and a houseowner misbehave equally badly in the houseowner’s premises, the Law tends to side with the owner. Even if two narratives exist, only one is accepted as the true narrative. Why don’t you start a campaign into the dirtbirds of the British Army who entered British politics after a less than straightforward military past.

  • Charles_Gould

    On the day of the Smithwick report, in which there was an apology from dublin for IRA/Garda collusion………you get the sense tha with London and Dublin both reporting and revealing, and apologizing for, the truth. There seems to be a sense of pressure on the third main party – the IRA as led by Gerry Adams – to reveal more. That previous non-truths, in particular, become harder and harder to ignore.

  • Dixie Elliott

    I notice that you didn’t refer to the Andytown News/ British Exchequer Sean Tracey.

    Nor did you refer to Marty crawling to HM and then her hubby.

    Of course not but you’re right about the’ British right wing trash tabloids’…

    HMG have looked after and ensured that both Gerry and Marty were the safest Republicans in Ireland for decades and it’s only since Gerry carpetbagged down South, therefore becoming of no further use, that they’ve let the media loose on him.

    Oh and while we’re on the me and my ilk crawling to journalists of an anti-Republican leaning…

    For 3 years running, beginning on the 30th anniversary of the Hunger Strikes, Marty then other lessor shinners crawled to the party conference of the British Right Wing Tories.

    Sean if you are going to demand that I stop picking my nose then you should get your finger out of your arse first mo chara, you really do sound like the councillor who called himself michaelhenry.

  • sean treacy

    Dixie ,im not your chara ,neither am I Michael henry .All I am asking is why do Inependent news and media and their British counterparts hang on to every word uttered by you and your colleagues when under any other circumstances they would cross the street to avoid you.Thing is they see no difference in you and SF and once the job has been done you will be subject to their unrelenting vitriol.