Rangers’ Armed Services Day descends into an undisciplined act of self undoing…

So Scotland [Deep breath!]? Well, I did try to get ‘the other side’ of this story, but since there’s no one in the press office at Ibrox today, and there’s no mobile number for the press officer they do have available (which is unusual in my experience), I’m going on what’s already out there.

Adds: This story broken here by Phil at An Phoblacht.

On Saturday, Rangers (or Sevco as they are known to their rivals throughout Scottish football) thumped Stenhousemuir 8-0 on their increasingly emphatic way back to the Scottish Premiership.

So Rangers decided to have their Armed Forces day by inviting 400 British servicemen to their stadium. It seems to have been done in part to promote the establishment of a fans forces fund by the club’s own charity fund to donate its target figure of £15k to two military charities at the end of the season.

So what went wrong?

Erm, nothing quite, other than it became obvious that most if not all of those servicemen who turned up were themselves Rangers fans, as well as members of the British Armed Forces. Things took their usual course and bingo, embarrassing video of British squaddies clapping and singing along to Derrys Walls:

The incident has given rise to the usual degree of hyperventilating about Rangers on the net. But Alex Thomson of Channel Four News puts his finger on the core of the problem from the British Army point of view:

The problem is with our servicemen and women being exposed to this and hung out to dry by their commanders who seem to have the PR skills of a garden slug. This is the British Army, the Royal Air Force, the Royal Navy – and some years into a delicate peace process in Northern Ireland.

You can’t expose young people in the ranks to this and expect them to do anything else but let their hair down. What is idiotic and so far unexplained, is how they were put into this position by their commanding officers.

It was so easy: march on. Stand and enjoy the applause. March off.

Who thought allowing these people to be sucked into this deeply political cauldron and be made idiots of, was somehow a clever plan? The MoD either lost control of this event or, worse, never thought to impose any. We await answers to these questions from the MoD and, in particular, the General Officer Commanding Scotland, Major General Nick Eeles.

And from Rangers point of view, this comment on a Hearts online forum seems to me to strike to the core:

The whole thing might not sicken me but it certainly makes me deeply uncomfortable. Did you see the photo of the squaddies holding a ‘keep ulster protestant’ scarf?

I’ve never liked the crass exploitation of the armed forces by football clubs. Remembrance & recognition are very important but I can’t help but feel rangers have been using the forces as a marketing tool.[emphasis added]

Welcome to the house of self undoing [walks away slowly shaking head]…

  • megatron

    But surely if Sinn Fein were operating the institutions at stormont effectively the political vaccuum that allows these sorts of things to happen would be done away with.

    Sorry couldnt help myself.

    Agree it is a mistake by whoever is in charge – cant really blame the squaddies themselves though perhaps the mistake goes deeper than allowing them to attend the event and is more about allowing a certain culture to develop. Who ordered the code-red anyway.

  • keano10

    Mick,

    This also happened at a previous Armed Services Day at Ibrox last year. Sectarianism is not actually an entirely new phenomenon around the “hallowed” turf of Ibrox…

  • FDM

    One of the big issues you don’t address is how mainstream Scottish media has refused to bring this story to the people of Scotland and further afield.

    There could of course be several reasons.

    1. Engrained sectarianism in Scottish media, deliberately suppressing the story.
    2. Fear of annoying Sevco [Rangers are dead cue sounds of liquidator] fans, who generally go on a twitter/facebook/on-street rampage about journo’s actually evidencing what they are up to. Lennon for instance and bombs, bullets and several assaults [and counting].
    3. Fear of the establishment, attacking the military seen as an attack upon them.
    4. Fear of armed forces supporters, attacking the military is frowned upon by many ; even when they murder British citizens they are let off the hook.

    It isn’t a small story. I saw the reaction of some Sevco fans on twitter post the event and there were several who said they would never return to the scene of the crime again, such was the seething hatred on display. Can link them if you like…

    [PS. Not a Celtic fan. Have been to Celtic Park once, to see the Reds play this year.]

  • JR

    You can see someone that looks to have a higher rank getting a bollocking at 8.30

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqX4tn538S4

    But to be honest I remember these guys on the streets. I don’t need to watch a half time video from Ibrox to know what kind of thug HM’s government gave a gun and and sent over to “have a crack at paddy”

  • Lionel Hutz

    what are the lyrics of the rangers version of derry’s walls

  • Mick Fealty

    Well, I’ve linked the official lyrics. I’m not sure there are others Lionel. Some of the hyperventilation arises from the idea that some of the forces may have sung along with some jibe about Bobby Sands. As Roy Greenslade notes (http://goo.gl/lazqZJ), that remains an allegation by, erm, Celtic fans.

    Thanks for that JR. I think that video shows the real tension in this story, which is committing soldiers to could all too easily be perceived and presented as another ‘contentious parade’.

  • BluesJazz
  • Clanky

    It seems a spectacularly poorly thought out idea by whoever thought allowed it within the MoD.

    I would imagine that those who organised the thing from the army’s point of view were either too naive to realise the sort of pish that gets sung at Ibrox (I would imagine most of the British army’s top brass played rugger at some public school rather than stand on the terraces at an association football match), or they were too naive to realise that a bunch of squaddies would play to the crowd if you stick them in an atmosphere like that and didn’t think to brief the soldiers that they were on public display and shouldn’t join in with such nonsense.

    Either way it is a shame that what was ostensibly a charity idea has been marred by a lack of control of the troops by those in command, at least no-one was killed this time.

  • derrydave

    ….meanwhile in the East End of Glasgow…. preparations continue for the welcome of one of the best club sides in the world, Barcelona, for tomorrow nights Champions League clash !
    The contrast really is a beautiful thing 🙂

  • Submariner

    As a ex submariner who spent most of my service based in Scotland I was disgusted by the crass display of bigotry at Ibrox and the fact that some navy personnel joined in. I cannot believe that the brass agreed to this especially after the disgusting display at Ibrox last remembrance weekend. Looking at social media it seems a war of words has broken out with some fans of The Rangers asking what sectarian songs were sung. Below is posted the lyrics of a couple of the ditties heard.i was born under a union jack , i was born under a union jack
    do you know where hell is , hell is in the falls
    heaven is in shankill and we’ll guard those derrys walls
    oh i was born under a union jack

    walking down the shankill , it was my proudest day
    we sang the sash and the derrys walls and we fucked the IRA
    tims they have their shamrocks and we have our red hand
    we passed on ever so proudly with the pride ae govan band

    oh i was born under a union jack , a union union jack

    i was born under a union jack , i was born under a union jack
    do you know where hell is , hell is in the falls
    give us gerry adams and we’ll hang him by the balls
    oh i was born under a union jack

    as it is my nation and ulster is my home
    and i’ll die with no surrender to those papish fucks in rome
    so come and do your wus mow , its plain for all to see
    that there’ll only be one victor , the boys of the YCV

    i was born under a union jack , i was born under a union jack
    do you know where hell is , hell is in the falls
    give us martin mcguinness and we’ll hang him by the balls
    i was born under a union jack , a union union jack

    time they try to bomb us , they shoot their rifles too
    there’ll only be one winner , the boys of the red hand too
    they will keep our ulster free , it’s colours red white and blue
    cos we the boys of the UVF were ready for it noo

    i was born under a union jack , i was born under a union jack
    do you know where hell is , hell is in ardoyne
    we’ll kick the shit out those remain ducks as we once did at the boyne

  • ayeYerMa

    What a lot of balls Mick. All British servicemen should be proud of the job that they and their fallen colleagues did in smashing the scum of the IRA (including Bobby Sands) and not be unashamed in reminding them that if they even think about kicking it off again, they’ll be prepared to do it all over again. The irrelevant appeasement process has glossed over what really brought us relative peace, and it’s exactly the same thing that will maintain it into the future.

  • Submariner

    Apologies for the duplicate post

  • ayeyerma

    that right there was an example of why there were 30 years of killing in Northern Ireland. A barely concealed cultural and religious bigotry perpetrated by State Actors that every taig suspects is lurking beneath the surface of all things “Ulster”. It is actually somewhat sad to see it again exposed and to remind us all that somethings really do stay the same. As if triumphalism is going to help heal any wounds and make anyone’s life better, as if naked sectarianism is cool. What does victory look like for you, you edjit.

    It’s low brow, brain dead, and another depressing moment for a peace process that needs a good kick up the arse to waken up to this dangerous behaviour.

  • Mick, Roy Greenslade is mentioned above, His article on the same subject is highly relevant in my humble opinion: http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/29/rangers-military

  • What are the lyrics being sung to the “Fields of Athenry”

  • ayeYerMa,

    If it was the IRA you’d be on firm ground, but you give them too much credit to think they are that nuanced.

    A study of the lyrics leaves no one in doubt it’s anyone that isn’t loyal to the Union Jack (sic)

  • ayeYerMa

    Michael, the one and only reason why there were 30 years of killing was because the Gerry, Marty & co. decided to start a murdering and bombing offensive or “armed struggle”. Pretending these bastards are some great “peace makers” has done more to damage community relations than stating things as they are ever will.

  • jagmaster

    Typical bigotry on display at Ibrokes. Wonder where they’ll sing their wee songs when it’s eventually sold off to service the debt.

  • Republic of Connaught

    AyeYerma,

    The festering sectarian bigotry which exists at the club formely known as Glasgow Rangers existed before Adams or McGuinness were ever born.

  • qwerty12345

    “Michael, the one and only reason why there were 30 years of killing was because the Gerry, Marty & co. decided to start a murdering and bombing offensive or “armed struggle”

    hahahaha, must be difficult to type that with your hook hand.

    Malvern Street 1966, ring any bells?

  • HammerTime

    DerryDave –

    Where there will be as much, if not more sectarian bigotry spouted from the terraces.

  • Submariner

    What are the lyrics being sung to the “Fields of Athenry”

    It’s called A fathers advice and it is all about the modern day YCV a proscribed terrorist organisation.

  • redstar2011

    Would you really expect anything else either from the rabble on those terraces or the retards in those uniforms

  • sherdy

    Have they no laws in Scotland to control such bigotry?

    Will Rangers now be totally banned from the Scottish football scene?

    I don’t hold out much hope of any of the military personnel being disciplined or booted out of the forces, as experience of their activities showed they got away with actual murder, and were even decorated and promoted for it.

  • I checked that out Submariner, thanks.

  • Submariner

    Red star labelling those in uniform as retards diminishes any argument you may have and puts you on a par with Aye your ma’s rediculas posts above. The crux of the matter is those senior officers who allowed participation in this event should be disciplined and the MOD needs to state that there will never be a repeat. Ibrox has long been a sectarian cess pit and the Armed forces should be no where near it. Those who took part in the singing of sectarian songs must be disciplined by the military and also brought before the courts,as for those pictured with the KEEP ULSTER PROTESTANT scarf the army should turf them out. Can you imagine the outcry if the scarf had stated KEEP ULSTER WHITE

  • FDM

    If it were MacDonalds staff parading around Ibrox being congratulated on making their 50,000,000th burger in their McD’s uniforms whereupon they decided to jump into the same bigotry session what would happen?

    So a couple of McD’s staff hold up a scarf saying “Keep Scotland …” you get the picture.

    Said staff would be staff for as long as it took them to march to work to collect their p45s.

    I would have thought that people wearing the Queen’s uniform and OBVIOUSLY their deep love and enduring affection for their monarch that they would do nothing to bring their Queen, Army/Navy/Airforce regiment, colleagues and/or uniform into disrepute?

    Or maybe the opportunity to be an outlandish bigot was too much to pass up?

  • redstar2011

    Submariner I stand by my comments on British forces having suffered personally from their thuggery here. As regards its all the officers fault- bull.

  • BluesJazz

    No big deal.
    Some of the taunts by Munich Airport fans against John Terry and Super Suarez have been a lot worse.

  • Submariner

    Yes it is a big deal. The sight of members of the armed forces in uniform indulging in anti Irish and anti catholic bigotry is shameful. Just how long do you think a soldier holding up a scarf saying KEEP BRITAIN WHITE would be in a job for?

  • redstar2011

    Submariner why does any of this surprise you and as regards your bleating about these thugs being held to account- when exactly in their 40 years of thuggery here were they ever held properly to account for their actions including murder

  • Submariner

    redstar2011 (profile) 30 September 2013 at 7:34 pm
    Submariner I stand by my comments on British forces having suffered personally from their thuggery here. As regards its all the officers fault- bull.

    Fair enough that is your opinion but tarring everyone with the same brush diminishes your point. As for the senior officers the blame lies with them for sanctioning the visit to Ibrox especially with the knowledge of the disgusting display a the same ground last year. Those who participated in the singing of sectarian and terrorist glorifying songs and the waving of scarf’s with odious sectarian statements on them should as i have already said by dealt with by the courts and booted out of the military.

  • redstar2011

    Should be booted out of the military- dont make me laugh

    They murdered here and werent booted out, such is the thuggery of that so called army

  • Submariner

    Redstar it dosent surprise me I lived in the west of Scotland for a number of years and personally experienced the anti Irish and Catholic bigotry that is prevalent in that part of the world. I expect the Scottish police to deal with the offenders under the new Offensive behaviour at Football laws http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16138683

  • Submariner

    It would seem that the MSM has finally woken up and started reporting on this shameful episode. Hopefully the MOD will now put a stop to the military ever attending Ibrox again

  • redstar2011

    Yeah Submariner, criminal behaviour, including murder is really frowned upon in that rabble . Get real

  • Submariner

    Which rabble the Scottish Police.?

  • redstar2011

    No the british army rabble you seem to be intent on defending.

  • HammerTime

    Redstar it’s past your bed time. Idiot.

  • Mark

    People shouldn’t be surprised by this blatant sectarian incident witnessed at Ibrox at the weekend . This is Newco Rangers / Rangers we’re talking about . The same club that turned Gazza from a happily go lucky likeable idiot into a sectarian bigot taunting rival fans with his imaginary pipe playing . The same club that gave Alex Ferguson the cold shoulder for marrying at catholic . The same club whose goalkeeper wore a black armband during a match after Billy Wright met his maker . The same club whose fans burned their season tickets after Souness signed Mo Johnston ( a catholic ! ) The list is endless and certainly won’t be the last .

    As for the British Army ……their behaviour at Ibrox , their actions in the Middle East over the last ten years and how they treated ordinary nationalists in Ireland during the troubles is just a constant reminder that it’s not just a few bad apples in their ranks , it’s most of the bunch .

    To invite and for the invitation to be accepted to attend the Division 2 / 3 clash in the most sectarian city in ” Britian ” with so much history between the local community was beyond stupid . Whatever bird brains at the MOD and Ibrox responsible should be demoted etc ….

    Bluejazz – to compare the stick that Liverpool’s cannibal racist centre forward gets with what happened at Ibrox is a little silly .

  • Submariner

    redstar2011 (profile) 30 September 2013 at 8:26 pm
    No the british army rabble you seem to be intent on defending.

    Perhaps you should re read what i actually posted. You seem to have caught a green version of the Flegger mentality from DC and AYM

  • foyle observer

    Best thing to do is to ignore these thugs. Anyway, they all look about 14 in their silly little uniforms, especially those ridiculous little hats. Who cares what a couple of cadets do in a sectarian shit hole like Ibrox?

    Keep Ulster Protestant? How about we keep it Irish, like it always has been, before these little kids forefathers emigrated to Ireland and decided it was simply ‘Protestant’.

    I pity these dinosaurs.

  • DC

    Well i thought it was a bit unusual to see it but a nice touch to support the armed forces and the behaviour par for the course when the chants come out.

    Rangers clearly divides opinion and is divisive and the songs are an embarrassment when examined by the liberal middle classes, but it shouldn’t stop fund raising for the armed forces and it shouldn’t stop armed forces taking to the pitch.

    it is just something that should be dealt with and modified and more should be done to cover up the stuff the liberal middle classes frown upon. If the armed forces were full of polite, liberal middles class types, the armed forces would be well not very good!

    i actually caught the end of the rangers stenhousemuir stream online when this was happening but i didn’t have the sound up or focus that much on it and at that point i didn’t hyper analyse things, i just thought it was a nice touch, i certainly didn’t draw the conclusion rangers-armed-services-day-descends-into-an-undisciplined-act-of-self-undoing/

    i don’t believe in the strapline or headline, it might look like that to some nationalists and catholics perhaps, but not to others and you can’t keep everyone happy anyway.

    sure the scots are getting their independence vote so chin up!

  • foyle observer

    Fund raising for the army? Get to f*ck!

    Our taxes not enough now to pay for their disgusting foreign exploits?

  • DC

    a unionist football club being uncomplimentary about bobby sands – shock horror!

    need to move on though you would think!

    but then last week i got lift with an older female protestant work colleague, she was taking me to the train station at central, we passed friendly street and i was oblivious to all around me but then she chirped up and told me about the ruc officer she knew and what happened to him down there, she was upset that a nice man like that who she knew from her church ended up with his head blown off.

    Bobby Sands, yes, it might be a while before hardcore unionists eulogise him…

  • foyle observer

    DC, and similarly, will be a very very long wait before we accept those scumbags who blew 13 innocent men’s heads of in the streets of Derry and walked away scot free. At least Bobby Sands did time. Oh and he wasn’t inside for murder.

  • ThomasPaine

    Submariner (profile)
    30 September 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Can you imagine the outcry if the scarf had stated KEEP ULSTER WHITE

    There would be zero outcry. Zero. What was said when that poor Nigerian woman’s home was attacked during the week?

    It’s vile, pathetic and an absolute disgrace. Hardly surprising though. And people wonder why the British and their soldiers are despised all over the world and have been for centuries…..

    Loyalism has always expressed and will continue to express Neo-Nazism, while at the same time supporting the Zionist state of Israel. This obviously shows just how unsurpassably moronic they truly are.

    Loyalism is one of the single most hypocritical and downright stupid ideologies in the world. It routinely allows itself to be manipulated by its political elite – not alone in this admittedly – all the while behaving in a manner which is both detrimental to its cause and the antithesis of what it purports to represent.

    Do they think that their Queen or Prime Minister is proud of them when they behave in such a manner? Do they think the ordinary Welsh/English/Scottish tax payer feels an affinity with them?

    The funny thing is that while there are some other groups like this throughout the world and throughout history, they never allowed their true colours to shine through so unashamedly so often.

    By the way, there is no doubt parts of Republicanism is almost as ugly. But it is minus the racism/xenophobia inherent in loyalism (and given republicans history with socialism, it contains less sectarianism)

  • DC

    By the way, there is no doubt parts of Republicanism is almost as ugly. But it is minus the racism/xenophobia inherent in loyalism (and given republicans history with socialism, it contains less sectarianism)

    When i was in Dublin, before the crash, there were two young lads wearing celtic shirts, both were taking turns to run up to the service window of an on-street Spar, they were launching themselves to spit at the service window and at the intercom or voice box thing. To me it looked as if they hoped that by running up and spitting there would be enough force behind their spit to get it through somehow and land on the young asian girl serving at the till.

    running up to the window and back, up and back, spitting, giggling thinking it great craic!

    nobody on street did anything. i was guilty of doing nothing too.

  • Mick Fealty

    I’m going to start handing out red cards to anyone breaking the golden commenting rules here. THINK people, or at least check your reflexes are at least interesting before you bore the rest of us to death!!

  • redhugh78

    Is it just me or does anyone else see the elephant in the room or Ibrox to be accurate.

    The old club Rangers bumped her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to the tune of over £90 million in unpaid tax but have the audacity to fawn over her Majesty’s armed forces who I’m sure could have put that money to good use.

    Despite the old club being liquidated and a new club having to be formed and allowed in to the Scottis third division, the fans still claim it’s the same club yet don’t claim ownership of the dead club’s debt!
    loyal indeed.

  • sectarianheadcount

    Clown Forces in sectarian shocker. Sure the same sanctions will apply to those involved as were applied re the near 300 killings for which they were responsible during the conflict. Promotions all round…..

  • derrydave

    It is what it is, they are what they are. Meanwhile Celtic dine at the top table and have a little taste of what life could be like without their bitter little rivals. If only we could get out of the graveyard that is scottish football, and escape that horrible football club forever !

    And for anyone to claim that ‘Celtic are just as bad’, or that ‘Celtic are just the other side of the sectarian coin’ – that is nothing but ignorant lazy thinking which is not actually reflective of the reality of the situation. Think it if it makes you happy, however it is pure intellectual poverty. Won’t bother going into the reasons why as it is obvious to any unbiased observer.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Mick, what regiment was this?

    I know there’s immediately fruit being thrown at computer screens as people read this but it does have a slight bearing on matters surely?

    NOT an excuse!
    Though, if it was one of the more ‘proddy’ regiments (e.g. Black Watch) then that just places more blame at the officers’ feet.

    It is shameful.
    I bloody hate Ibrox (and indeed the Old Firm in general) and I’d hoped it would get sold off or indeed subsumed into that fantasy proposal of the super casino/hotel/white Elephant complex across the road but anyway I agree with Submariner in that the officers have a lot to answer for, actually more than the squaddies.

    Young Privates in the Army aren’t renowned for their initiative or indeed sense of what to do in a situation for when there is no one to tell them explicitly what to do or indeed what NOT to do.

    They wouldn’t be young privates in army otherwise.

    If you think this is being blown out of proportion then I think you’re out of touch likewise, if you think this is how ALL the British Army thinks then you’re really out of touch and should stop enjoying it so much.

    A lot of current and ex-army will be very embarrassed to see this, it’s another example of idiotic Loyalism aligning itself with the army, on a par with all those Para flags one can see in some Loyalist areas.

    Despite whatever links there may/may not have been between branches of the security forces and Loyalists it remains an (unpopular) truth that a large part of the British Army despised Loyalists too.

    Neither side in NI is ‘cool’ with that idea though

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Derry Dave

    “And for anyone to claim that ‘Celtic are just as bad’, or that ‘Celtic are just the other side of the sectarian coin’ – that is nothing but ignorant lazy thinking which is not actually reflective of the reality of the situation”

    I lived in the East End of Glasgow (twice) and sold football scarves on Springfield road, Parkhead (and other places) in my experience they ARE the other side of the coin.

    No doubt I was a bit paranoid (as one would when one hears people screaming “HE’S A F******G HUN!”) but likewise a Celtic fan amongst Celtic fans on a grand day out is not likely to be the most impartial critic of the bigger picture.

    Whilst I think they were MARGINALLY not as bad as the Rangers’ fans (there was a wider cross section of the community there, from nice friendly southern pioneers to scum who turned the scum-o-meter up to ‘eleven’) it is extremely naive to think things are comparatively grand in Planet Celtic.

    Rangers fans have just set the bar so very low that it’s just very easy to think of one as an olympic standard high-jumper when one is nothing more than a one-legged, arthritic, emphysemic ‘hopper’…

  • USA

    Mick Fealty wrote:
    “So what went wrong?
    Erm, nothing quite, other than it became obvious that most if not all of those servicemen who turned up were themselves Rangers fans, as well as members of the British Armed Forces.

    Mick, very disappointed you should adopt such a contorted stance when confronted with a video which clearly captures the cancer of sectarianism on show by some members of the British Armed Forces. This was clearly a disgraceful and sectarian performance by some members (not all) of the British Armed Forces and a significant section of the Rangers support. Approx 400 service people walked onto the field, only around 80 engaged in the sectarian display, with approx another 120 remaining at the other end of the ground not participating in the chants @ 2:53 in ( the video) I must assume the majority quietly left the field after receiving the applause of the crowd.

    You say that “most if not all the servicemen that turned up were Rangers fans”, but the majority of service people remained at the other end of the ground or left the field, not participating in the sectarianism on display. The video clearly shows approx 80 service members engaged in sectarian displays and chants. This is certainly in breach of current Scottish Legislation.

    Also, there were a catalog of sectarian chants. For example, at 3:48 to 3:51 in the video they can clearly be heard singing “For the Army and the Navy and the UDA”, this is a well known loyalist song about the UDA, a proscribed terrorist organization. The British Military personnel also engaged in “The Bouncy” which celebrates the torture and murder of Catholics in loyalist drinking dens during “The Troubles”. What on earth are some (not all) of the British Armed Forces doing participating in this criminal behaviour?

    Had these been 80 US soldiers at a NY Giants game celebrating the lynching of “Niggers” or Jews, while displaying banners saying “Keep Mississippi White” they would be dishonorably discharged faster than you can say “I have a Dream”…..

    Sectarianism is a cancer, just like racism. This should met head on by the Scottish police and the British Armed Forces. It was clearly a naked display of sectarianism by some (not all) of armed forces present. Also ongoing naked sectarianism by significant sections of the Rangers support which should no longer be tolerated by Scotland’s football hierarchy and wider civic society.

    Perhaps you did not have time to view all the footage and consider the import of these images before writing about the topic.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    “The British Military personnel also engaged in “The Bouncy” which celebrates the torture and murder of Catholics in loyalist drinking dens during “The Troubles”.”

    Eh?

    Really?

    You’re not referring to the Robert Hamill origin myth are you?

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Mick

    I take offence at Redstar’s “or the retards in those uniforms”
    remark.

    I didn’t paint a rosy picture of their mental facilities myself in my earlier remark but referring to them as ‘retards’ is a bridge too far (to stick with the military theme…).

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    ‘mental faculties’…

  • FDM

    I think the key word is the undisciplined behaviour of the troops, airmen and seamen involved.

    I don’t think downplaying this event is going to fly.

    I expect the “Keep Ulster Protestant” chaps to do the long walk.

    I also anticipate disciplinary charges against quite a few of the others who are eye-balled singing what they should not in the extensive video footage available.

    Using my crystal ball I doubt this event will be repeated anytime in the near future.

    Still few comments on the Scottish medias widespread attempt to bury this story. Eye opening.

  • jh25769

    It’s clearly a cock up by whoever thought it wise to let them run around like idiots. But to make out everyone in the British armed forces is some kind of sectarian bigot is stupid. I know some of them caused a lot of hurt and some have done some incredibly stupid things over the years. But I hate the idea of tarring everyone with the same brush. I imagine the 1000’s of Catholics in the British armed forces and probably those who aren’t will watch this and not be impressed and not want to be associated with this kind of behaviour.

  • Morpheus

    What is worrying is that if it kicks off here again and the armed forces are needed to support the PSNI these idiots will be given machine guns and will walk the streets of Northern Ireland. Rangers fans were doing what Rangers fans do week in and week out – let the SFA deal with that – however to regain the confidence that has been lost the Armed Forces should be publically seen to be distancing themselves from these idiots by dishing out dishonourable discharges to guilty parties.

    The low-key manner in which it is being treated by the media also doesn’t instil confidence.

  • cynic2

    A disgraceful display that should be dealt with

    And a predictable whinge

  • Morpheus

    The BBC and The Belfast Telegraph are giving this story a miss – I wonder why that is?

  • BluesJazz

    “The BBC and The Belfast Telegraph are giving this story a miss – I wonder why that is?”

    probably because it’s not a big deal. Certainly not compared to a political party covering up child rape by its members.

  • Morpheus

    It’s not as big a deal compared to the other story but it broke days ago and is national newsworthy none the less.

  • DC

    if the scots get independence soon why not let those deemed sectarian and in the army have a wee thank you bouncy at ibrox because this might be the last time?

    there’s absolutely no point the army wasting its time on sectarianism in scotland when the army could be about to get kicked out of scotland because of nationalists and it is that cohort that some of those in the stand were being sectarian about – may as well wait and see how the referendum turns out.

    why kick your own personnel, who risk their lives, in the nuts over sectarianism and nationalism, when it is nationalists that want to kick the army out of scotland, albeit politely and democratically.

    potentially the powers that be in the army might wager just to stuff it and away and do the bouncy, for it could be the last time thanks to nationalists who want everyone to speak nicely of them and be nice to them while they try and eliminate the union and the army and rangers if they could.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    DC

    They’re going to kick the army out of Scotland?

    Scotland won’t have an army or just won’t retain it’s regiments and their standards?

    That I did not know.

    I recall quite a lot of hullaballoo about merging the Scottish regiments, I’d be surprised if they didn’t at least retain some of the regiments in the fashion like that of some former territories of the British Empire e.g. India

    Are you sure you aren’t getting Scottish nationalists mixed up with Irish nationalists?
    They may have some similarities but they certainly have their differences too, as do Scottish Loyalists and Irish Loyalists (e.g. Scottish Loyalists singing about the Boyne then in the same breath lamenting the fate of Bonnie Prince Charlie to me is a classic case of early ‘Flegger Logic’)

    “why kick your own personnel, who risk their lives, in the nuts over sectarianism ”

    Do you really see no problem with men in uniform (albiet a very small number, but enough to get photographed and beamed around the world) holding a ‘keep Ulster Protestant’ scarf?
    Bearing in mind that some of their colleagues would have held guns in Ulster and may possibly have been accused of ‘having a pop’ at keeping Ulster Protestant?

    Surely at least a little kick in the nuts is in order?

  • JR

    Aside from the whole sectarian angle to this. Something that I find much more worrying is that the officers clearly lost control of the troops, standing just yards away, in a football stadium. How are we supposed to believe they can maintain control in Iraq or Afghanistan far from the public eye in the heat of battle?

  • SK

    “why kick your own personnel, who risk their lives, in the nuts over sectarianism and nationalism, when it is nationalists that want to kick the army out of scotland, albeit politely and democratically.”

    In other words the nationalists are rocking the boat over there, so let the army do what they want with them.

    How did that pan out in NI?

  • DC

    @ am ghob

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/scottish-independence-warning-over-scots-regiments-1-3128366

    The claim drew a firm rebuttal from the SNP last night, with a spokesman insisting Scotland would be able to afford a new £2.5 billion Scottish Armed Force, without the cost of paying for the Trident nuclear deterrent at Faslane.

    However, Hammond will maintain this week that a newly independent nation cannot simply “carve out” Scottish personnel and units for its own new force.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Interesting stuff I have to say.

    Though in this case seemingly both the Nationalists and the Unionists want the army (or at least some regiments).

  • DC

    thinking they can have it both both ways – quelle surprise.

    i like ed balls’ approach to the currency union as well.

  • Morpheus

    “Aside from the whole sectarian angle to this. Something that I find much more worrying is that the officers clearly lost control of the troops, standing just yards away, in a football stadium. How are we supposed to believe they can maintain control in Iraq or Afghanistan far from the public eye in the heat of battle?”

    Or on the streets of Northern Ireland if they are drafted in to help the PSNI.

    Oh the irony of holding HM Armed Forces Day when Rangers started a newco to get out of paying HM Customs and Revenue over £94m… 🙂