Our wee culture….any chance we could stop losing money from it?

If it didn’t need said already this years 12th July celebrations were a much greater success in Derry than they were in Belfast.

A new report released today by Belfast City Centre Management highlights how the Orange Order still have some work to do in making ‘Orangefest’ an attractive event.

Let’s take a look at facts

60% of businesses in the city centre opened on 12th July. This is a huge improvement on just a few years ago.

HOWEVER- Just 7% of these businesses were happy with the number of people they got through their doors.  In contrast 80% were unhappy with a further 13% undecided.

The figures get worse as the report reveals this

‘One well known high street brand stated that they had a total of seven customers over the course of the entire day. This was not uncommon, with other traders reporting numbers as low as 5 customers.’

In addition to this, 50% of businesses reported an unfriendly family atmosphere and several cited rising tensions as being a turnoff for some consumers. In fairness, the other 50% did report the opposite.

Going into the future some statistics don’t give much optimisim as 65% of the businesses that did open have said they are considering not doing so next year.

BUT WAIT

It wasn’t all bad news. The Good Food Market and the Festival of Fools were seen as an overwhelmingly positive event.

So my question is how do we turn this event from being something that is regarded as divisive into something that Belfast can actually recieve some economic benefit from?

Answers on a post card please.

Full report is available here http://www.belfastcentre.com/publications/event-reports/

Update-From today’s Irish News-another good reason to take the contention out of 12th July as it cost £100k an hour to police.

 

  • Kevsterino

    Peter, the difficulty I have in understanding your point is rooted in our understanding of the word ‘sectarian’.

    I find not a trace of Catholicism in hurling, handball and Gaelic football. Since the word sectarian regards religious beliefs, I don’t see the sectarianism in the GAA. It does indeed have a history of a Nationalist ethos. Is that what you’re calling sectarianism?

    The Orange Order, on the other hand, is the epitome of sectarianism.

  • Alias

    “Since the word sectarian regards religious beliefs…”

    It isn’t confined to religion: it refers to any subgroup within a group, where the subgroups seek to advance their respective interests at the direct detriment of the interests of the other subgroup, e.g. divisions within a nation over national allegiance.

    Wiki defines sectarianism as “bigotry, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement.”

    The so-called ‘nationalists’ like to restrict the definition to religion as that enables them to accuse the other subgroup of sectarianism while claiming that their own “bigotry, discrimination, or hatred” is some purer form of malice that is beyond such reproach. That is itself is a sectarian practice.

  • Build a walking track around the perimeter of the Maze site. Then, if a march by a lodge or lodges results in violence, the offending lodges will only be allowed to march the track for a certain period, say one year.

  • Kevsterino

    Well, Alias, words evolve. When I learned that word, I swear I looked it up and the definition limited its meaning to religious applications. I always used the word ‘factionalism’ in a political context.

    I’m curious, is the use of the phrase ‘so-called nationalists’ a sectarian jibe?

  • tacapall

    Come on Kevsterino, Alias is using Wiki as his source, any Tom Dick or Harry can amend the definition to suit their agenda, why even the Orange order could have wrote that whole definition for Wiki.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Reader are you saying that the Brian Robinson.band does not parade with UVF banners?

    I was under the impression that it does?

  • Charles_Gould

    This is one of those threads where the discussion is quite similar to those, say, 10 years ago!!!!!!

  • Neil

    No we couldn’t. The GAA has changed in a decade. The OO hasn’t.

  • Neil

    Sorry, I meant as in we couldn’t have had this conversation. Traditions are dropped for the greater good, society moves on. The OO would do well to recognise that before they paint themselves into a corner.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Charles_Gould

    “This is one of those threads where the discussion is quite similar to those, say, 10 years ago!”

    I grew up at odds with the GAA its cronyism lack of vision and its in ability to move with the times.

    Today the GAA is a wonderful organisation which doses outstanding work in the area of health and fitness (no just the GAA own sports). It is also a center of support for other local activities such as fundraising and local infinitives.

    I did have worries as to how the Tyrone GAA would use their new centre of excellence in Garvaghey…then I saw how they was using it:

    “‘centre of participation’, with a strapline of “For the ordinary, the less ordinary and the extraordinary.”

  • Reader

    Mc Slaggart: Reader are you saying that the Brian Robinson.band does not parade with UVF banners? I was under the impression that it does?
    My understanding is that it is called the “Star of the Shankill”, that their drum and banner bear the name “Brian Robinson” (in memoriam), and that this is the basis for Alban’s remarks. If the banners are more incriminating than that, there are numerous Sluggerites with the means and opportunity to demonstrate it, since the band seems to be appearing outside the ghetto on occasion.
    As for the real nature of the band itself; I have no way of knowing whether it’s a cover story for the local UVF or just a local band with a sick choice of ex-members to memorialise.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Reader

    “Star of the Shankill” or Shankill Star (it must be the same band) when playing in Fermanagh had banners that made an Orange man blush. {I have not seen the banners myself.}

    They got no trouble from local nationalists. They can stand on their head and play music while worshiping the great god Ian for all we care.

    I think they do get trouble when wanting to march in Ardyone as the band hero killed Paddy Mc Kenna from Ardyone. This is why all the objections to a republican parade in Castlederg left nationalists wondering do Unionists know who is in the parades that they go and see of a 12 july?

  • Reader

    Mc Slaggart: 6th September: You need to put a link up to detail these objections. The only ones I could find relate to the nature of the parade in his honor.
    McSlaggart: 8th September: I think they do get trouble when wanting to march in Ardyone as the band hero killed Paddy Mc Kenna from Ardyone.
    So there we have it. As I said from the start, the objection is to the band, and not just to their participation in a specific event.
    Now – the Kevin Lynch Hurling Club – should they be welcome everywhere?

  • Mc Slaggart

    Reader

    “the objection is to the band”

    Firstly its a UVF band and they do parades to highlight that fact. Its not the name that makes them a UVF band its what the actions they take. They could call themeslves the Mary poppins band and they still would be a UVF band.

    Secondly this UVF band does go “everywhere” even in Ardyone their is an alternative route they could take and still march.

    Thirdly the ” Kevin Lynch Hurling Club” is a Hurling club who do nothing else but Hurling.

    Lastly you may not have noticed it bu Martin Mc Guinness is “co-equal” in “charge” of “Northern Ireland”. If Kevin Lynch was alive he could possible be in charge of Education or lord mayor of Belfast. Their is not many places people who are “unrepentant terrorist” can go.

    Taking that in all into account I honestly do not know any place a hurling club should not be able to go.

  • Jeffrey

    Kevsterino “I find not a trace of Catholicism in hurling, handball and Gaelic football”

    You are either blind or a troll……….The Association is organised on a parish basis, many clubs carry the names of local saints into combat and bishops threw in the ball to start All-Ireland finals for decades.Mass held in Croke Park, The singing of Faith of our Fathers before a match………….

    “Since the word sectarian regards religious beliefs”

    Sectarianism is bigotry, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement.

  • Kevsterino

    @Jeffrey, “You are either blind or a troll”, hmm, that is definitely ‘ad hominem’ or if you are averse to latin, on this forum they call it ‘man-playing’.

    ‘The Association is organised on a parish basis’. Could you please inform me what parish the PSNI team is in?

    ‘Many clubs carry the names of local saints into combat.’ My favorite baseball team is the St. Louis Cardinals. How sectarian of us, huh? An entire city named after a saint? Outrageous!

    A bishop threw in the ball at the final? When was the last time that happened?

    Mass held at Croker? Was that during a game?

    Honestly, this is just too tedious trying to prove a negative. But if you want people to understand you when you say ‘sectarian’, get yourself a better dictionary.

  • Neil

    OO

    Offensive to some because of band names, and other emblems.
    Causes riots, and a variety of other crimes, from pissing in public to trying to kill police.
    Costs millions to police.
    Is associated with the largest single act of mass vandalism in Europe (the 11th night).
    Is a strain on public resources from the fire brigade, health service and police.
    Leads to a lost day in Belfast at the height of the summer.
    Is intimidating to tourists and about half of locals.
    Insists on marching in areas where they are universally opposed, such as Carnlough, Rasharkin and countless other predominantly Nationalist towns and villages.

    The GAA

    Offensive to some because of park names, and other emblems.

  • Reader

    Mc Slaggart: If Kevin Lynch was alive he could possible be in charge of Education or lord mayor of Belfast. Their is not many places people who are “unrepentant terrorist” can go.
    It seems unlikely. Brian Robinson would have had a better chance. After all, the PUP does indeed have a derisory vote when they bother to put it to the test, but they are still streets ahead of the IRSP.
    Mc Slaggart: Secondly this UVF band does go “everywhere” even in Ardyone their is an alternative route they could take and still march.
    They haven’t been “in Ardoyne”, and they won’t be “in Ardoyne”. Alban’s objection is that they would be near the Ardoyne.
    By the way – the way you define the term “UVF Band” – aren’t the bands in the top video on the link below “IRA bands” using your definition?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23656197

  • Mc Slaggart

    Reader

    I never liked the parade in Castlederg I just did not see any grounds for Unionists to complain about it. I would take those bands in the video to be IRA bands. They also are not very good.

    “Alban’s objection is that they would be near the Ardoyne.”

    Are you saying the the shops in Ardoyne which the Byrian Robsion wants to march past is not part of Ardoyne?

  • FDM

    I actually lived on the Crumlin Road for 14 years of my life.

    I never lived in/under/over a shop.

    Thread killer.

  • Raymonds Back

    Why woud anyone want to waste their time coming up with ideas that would turn an event that is designed to be divisive (not ‘regarded as divisive”) into something that it does not want to be?

    Here’s one, though: send the bill for the policing to the Orange Order, along with the bill for the firemen dealing with the illegal bonefires (all bonefires are illegal, by the way).

    Anyone who has nto yet listened to this song, should:

  • Greenflag

    ‘any chance we could stop losing money from it?’

    Two chances -fat and slim .With 3,000 plus OO parades and all the cost of extra policing plus the illegal bonfires and public burning of rubber tyres how could you expect not to lose money ?

    Sending the bill to the OO for policing and the cost of clean up after the tyre burning infernos could be a start .

    Culture does’nt have to be stupid to be celebrated or is NI an exception ?

    The OO can’t be completely dumb or can they ? The jury’s still out on that one . 84,000 people payed hard cash to attend the exciting GAA A;; Ireland Hurling final between Clare and Cork and they’ll probably get close to the same number for the replay .

    Maybe the II should encourage ‘hurling ‘ camans among their supporters instead of hurling ‘bricks’ ans setting fore to mountains of tyres ?

  • Greenflag

    oops correction to above

    Maybe the OO/Black Preceptory/Purple whatever etc should encourage ‘hurling ‘ camans among their supporters instead of hurling ‘bricks’ and setting fore to mountains of tyres ?