Parades Commission bans Ardoyne return for Orange march…

News Letter report on the refusal to allow a small number of returning Orange lodges to walk past Ardoyne…

Despite ground-breaking talks between the Orange Order and a nationalist residents group at the weekend, the Parades Commission has taken the unprecedented step of preventing the three Orange lodges passing along a stretch of the Crumlin Road on their way home from the Belfast demonstration.

In a ruling published on Tuesday night, the commission said the morning feeder parade could proceed with a maximum of 100 supporters along that stretch of the Crumlin Road, but the return parade could not walk the 800m section of the road between Woodvale and the Hesketh Road junction.

Nationalist youths attacked police lines with fireworks and petrol bombs following last year’s parade along the route by the three Orange lodges from the Ligoniel area.

Two nationalist residents’ groups from Ardoyne have notified the police of their intention to hold protests against this year’s parade. The Parades Commission has permitted a maximum of 60 Greater Ardoyne Residents’ Collective (GARC) protesters and 150 from the Crumlin Ardoyne Residents’ Association (CARA).

So that’s more than two to one ratio of protestors to paraders in the morning… Unsurprisingly, there is some unhappiness amongst unionists… We await to whether it has the desired affect in public order…

Nigel Dodds…

“By contrast, republicans engaged in heavy rioting at Ardoyne last July culminating in a murderous machine gun attack against police officers,” they said.

“At a subsequent parade dissident republicans again fired shots in Ardoyne.

“Yet the Parades Commission has clearly not taken proper and full account of preceding events both last year and this.

  • Tomassio

    Handy for Nigel that no loyalists engaged in any rioting last year, at least until it was acceptable civil disobedience. Not so handy was the OO’s tactless ruse to engage with CARA a week before the 12th being swatted away RE this years parade. Too little, too late. On the bright side, the DUP now have a cause to rally Unionists to (and conveniently distract from Nelsongate).

  • sectarianheadcount

    Love to see the PC reasoning behind this one. Bizarre.

  • The following statement was issued by the Greater Ardoyne Residents Collective (GARC)

    The decision to Halt the Hate filled display of Sectarian Coat Trailing Bigotry up the Crumlin Road on the Evening of the 12th July is long overdue. The constant pressure by GARC and the community of Ardoyne has forced the Parades Commission to capitulate from their position of facilitating unwanted outdated provocative acts of sectarian triumphalism.

    All futile attempts to inject a irrelevant an unrepresentative micro-group with a discredited agenda around a facilitation process into talks with loyalists will fail as the residents of Ardoyne will only except one genuine settlement which is that all Loyal Order marches through our area must cease forthwith and our community be allowed to live in peace free from unwanted Sectarian Parades.
    The people of Ardoyne have shown by their resilience that they will not be beaten or brutalised into submission as our proud community has shown it can defend its self against any adversity, GARC appreciate their continued support and unflinching determination to stop all unwanted Parades.

    The loyal Orders should now consider the alternative route suggested by GARC several years ago through Glenside Park for all future Parades and remove all future contention.
    As unwanted morning Parades are every bit as insulting and unacceptable to nationalist residents as the evening Parades are so the Orange Orders should consider cancelling their morning Parade in the interest of creating a peaceful and harmonious environment on the 12th of July.

    Issued by GARC Steering Committee

  • keano10

    Let’s not be under any illusions here. The Orange Order were fully aware that this determination was coming.

    Their late decision to engage with some residents was purely a cosmetic exercise and it should surprise absolutely no one that those talks did not realise a resolution. This society has to move on at some stage. These controversial feeder parades are wholly antagonistic and are an embarrasment to this city in the 21st century. The OO have made no worthwhile attempts to engage in meaningful dialogue with residents and have shown an absolute disregard for the concerns of Nationalists over a long period of time. Life will move on with or without them…

  • iluvni

    ‘through our area’

    The cheek of them.

  • Mick Fealty

    The Oranges goose was cooked from last year when PP punished them for three years of unprovoked republican rioting…

  • sectarianheadcount

    ‘accept’

  • märsta

    “The Oranges goose was cooked from last year when PP punished them for three years of unprovoked republican rioting…”

    You are UPC and I claim my £5!

  • Mick Fealty

    ball please Marsta 😉 It is me. True bill.

  • Ulster Press Centre

    There’s only one message the Loyalist community can realistically take from this ludicrous sectarian decision – VIOLENCE PAYS.

    I certainly won’t be joining in any condemnation when young Loyalists realise the only way they can have their civil rights respected is by copying the successful, law-breaking tactics of the Nationalist community.

  • keano10

    Winston “Winkie” Irvine (PUP/UVF) is already cranking up the tension following the determination. The problem with Unionism is that there simply is’nt anyone to counteract this. Both the DUP & UUP absolutely quake in their boots at the slightest sign of Loyalist dissatisfaction pn the ground and any hope of reasoned appeals for calm are futile.

    Could be a long day and night in North Belfast on The Twelfth. Lets hope that some sort of common sense can prevail…

  • keano10

    UPC,

    Were Nationalists to blame for all that Loyalist violence during the flag dispute then…?

  • Morpheus
  • Ulster Press Centre

    keano10: Winston “Winkie” Irvine (PUP/UVF)…

    Mick, are these kind of baseless accusations allowed to be thrown about on your site?

    Winston Irvine has never been convcited of any criminal offence and leaving comments like this up is putting your site in danger of future legal problems. You wouldn’t let me get away with it if I was to make similar accusations against members of the Nationalist community.

  • Morpheus

    Oh the irony 🙂

  • sectarianheadcount

    Charades Commission has said the N. Belfast lodges will be allowed to parade across the Narrow Water Bridge next year.

  • Mick Fealty

    upc, I’m not having anyone on Slugger encouraging violence. You’re on a black spot warning already for one particularly nasty post on Short Strand!!!

  • Comrade Stalin

    Mick:

    The Oranges goose was cooked from last year when PP punished them for three years of unprovoked republican rioting…

    Mick, this is an outwardly inflammatory comment. You are fast losing any basis upon which to claim you are impartial. Your characterization of this as being a matter of Orangemen good, residents bad is an unacceptable glossing over of a serious problem which has two sides and to which there is no right answer.

    From my own point of view as a liberal my starting point is free speech and free assembly, and the default position should be that all marches should go ahead. I don’t accept the idea that people should be able to simply demand that other people they don’t like should be banned from “their area”. On the other hand, there are grave problems with a group of marchers who refuse to negotiate or engage constructively with the locals about how the problems could be solved and the tensions lowered. Some – not all – of those parading do so not to celebrate culture or have a day out, but with the active intention of escalating tensions. This is not a new problem; it is centuries old.

    To me it is logical for the Parades Commission to rule against the side which refuses to participate in meaningful discussion. This is what would happen anywhere, in any other country. If you want to hold any kind of public event and you tell the residents who will be effected by it to get stuffed, your event is not likely to go ahead. Contrast this with the way things work out in rural areas – where there often tend to be more nationalists – where the marching bodies do talk with residents and, by and large, the marches go ahead. This contradicts the notion that nationalists wish to simply ban all marches through anywhere where they have the numbers.

    I suspect, rather sadly, we are going to see the DUP and UUP commitment to law and order and peaceful means on display this weekend. Loyalists may attempt to descend on the area and force the issue, Drumcree style. This situation could get hot very very quickly, and the last thing we need is people styling themselves as journalists going around and saying that the lawfully-constituted parades adjudication body is meting out unjustified “punishments” on people.

    UPC:

    I certainly won’t be joining in any condemnation when young Loyalists realise the only way they can have their civil rights respected is by copying the successful, law-breaking tactics of the Nationalist community.

    Yeah, like you’ve ever joined in condemnation of young loyalists – you defend them and your UVF pals every step of the way. But sure, if you think it’s in their interests to see them being arrested and sent to jail, fine.

  • Ulster Press Centre

    Mick Fealty: upc, I’m not having anyone on Slugger encouraging violence. You’re on a black spot warning already for one particularly nasty post on Short Strand!!!

    No-one is encouraging violence! I’m simply saying I won’t be condemning it when it inevitably comes!

    The Parades Commission can’t show society that those who threaten and carry out acts of violence will be rewarded and then expect the rest of us to shake our heads when other groups follow that example!

    Now, once again, are you going to allow unfounded allegations against someone who has never been convicted of a criminal offence on your site? Do I need to contact Winston Irvine and have him contact a solicitor to get this disgusting mud-slinging stopped?

  • Son of Strongbow

    Seems that Orange feet are not to tread the hallowed pathways of the Irish Republic of Greater Ardoyne (an area that seems to grow in size year by year), even 800m for all of 5 minutes.

    The PC has determined that the no-Pass Laws are to be enforced to restrict the loyalists returning to their ‘township’ at Ballysillan.

    The Ardoyne Gang already ramped-up the tension by an illegal road protest this week and the application for a ‘protest’ march (ironically past loyalist Twaddel Avenue) on the 12th – hopefully not with the same outcome as the PSNI facilitated Nationalist Rioter March last year.

    They will now turn all their ire on the morning parade – as outlined in the hate-filled ‘GARC’ rant.

    On a brighter note the much criticised spend on G8 policing may have to be reevaluated with the return of 600+ G8-trained police officers for the 12th. A bit spookily reminiscent of choreography.

    Fortunately I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist………

  • Reader

    Morpheus: Unprovoked? Take it up with these guys…
    Three years of serious rioting *before* a *different* band acted the lig?
    Morpheus: Oh the irony
    I’m all in favour of everyone being held to the same standard of evidence when making accusations. In that respect there is no real difference between Keano10 and UPC.

  • carl marks

    well it nice to see that our unionist posters have decided that “illegal road protests” are wrong, good to see that they no longer support them (see flegs) and we im sure will in the future be pleased to hear them comdemn loyalist street protests, after all we would not want to call them hyprocrites would we.
    Mick,
    perhaps the PC is finally fed up with the OO pretending to engage and ignoring its rulings when it suits.

  • carl marks

    and as for unprovoked, many of the people (wearing sashs and playing flutes) are the same people who attacked primary school girls in the most secterian way there sick minds could come up with

  • Ulster Press Centre

    carl marks: and as for unprovoked, many of the people (wearing sashs and playing flutes) are the same people who attacked primary school girls in the most secterian way there sick minds could come up with

    Evidence please.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    I suppose the parades commission decision is progress if it keeps the current republican terrorists off the streets with their high velocity automatic assault rifles.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrtKwoJ1nzg

    Interesting to hear Gerry Kellly tell the DUP’s Nigel Dodds, this is nothing to do with the SoS and he and the DUP should not be involving her.

    Sometimes you got to love the shinners, for their sheer hypocrisy, telling Unionists who and what they can’t speak to the SoS about. They on the other hand will run to all and sundry to give their special view of politics here.

  • keano10

    Maybe Nigel Dodds could arrange for Red Sky to build a new road to get the OO and their lovely band of followers safely pback home…?

  • IanR

    If English/Scots/Welsh police, seconded over from the other side of the pond for this summer’s marching season, end up in the firing line of loyalist rioters, that’s hardly going to strengthen support for the unionist cause in the eyes of the rest of the UK population. Just sayin’ like.

  • Ulster Press Centre

    IanR: If English/Scots/Welsh police, seconded over from the other side of the pond for this summer’s marching season, end up in the firing line of loyalist rioters, that’s hardly going to strengthen support for the unionist cause in the eyes of the rest of the UK population. Just sayin’ like.

    I doubt the rioters will care.

    The Northern Ireland establishment has made it abundantly clear to the country that those who riot and fire shots at the police get what they want. Those who abide by the rule of law are punished and humiliated.

    Those who made this decision will now have to deal with the consequences.

  • IanR

    UPC: Those who made this decision will now have to deal with the consequences.

    No, some poor buggers in uniform will have to deal with the consequences that you seem to be wishing upon them.

    Although, Brian Rowan’s BT column this week appears to implicitly invite a Twitter-bomb campaign against the head of the Parades Commission.

  • Mick Fealty

    Can we put down the mud bombs and just try to talk politics here? Please?

    CM,

    The point is not what has happened in the past (you bring up the Holy Cross case every time we try to have this conversation), or indeed politically what the Orange mean to people in Ardoyne…

    The PC’s inconsistency (punitive measures for a band playing ‘offensive’ tunes in front of St Patricks, and putting them off the road when Republicans riot every year over four) and provision of perversely negative incentives, is in my view, storing up difficulty for the future…

    Here’s Peter Osborne fielding accusations that the PC ‘talks down to residents’ and that its deliberations are ‘inconsistent and not transparent’ in the view of the OO…

  • IanR[11.44] It will do the opposite and already the English/Scots/Welsh regard this place as a virtual leper colony as it is and nothing to do with Britain at all.

  • Mick Fealty

    Here’s the logic in one take, and why this has such potential to scale up and expand into places where there is currently no serious disputes (http://goo.gl/5iJ9o):

    “They are marching through our areas, like we wouldn’t do to themums… why would they insist on doing it to us if they know it is just going to stir up trouble…”

    Articulate Catholic youth, referring to the annual blocking of the Crumlin Road, at a singular point where Woodvale (P), Glencairn (P) and Ardoyne (C) areas all meet, in order to stop three Ligoniel (increasingly mixed) Orange lodges getting home from the 12th July demonstrations…

    This a private land dispute over what who ‘owns’ what is officially a public highway…

  • Ulster Press Centre

    danielsmoran: It will do the opposite and already the English/Scots/Welsh regard this place as a virtual leper colony as it is and nothing to do with Britain at all.

    I’m guessing you have evidence and statistics to back up this ludicrous claim?

  • tacapall

    “The Northern Ireland establishment has made it abundantly clear to the country that those who riot and fire shots at the police get what they want. Those who abide by the rule of law are punished and humiliated.

    Those who made this decision will now have to deal with the consequences.”

    UPC have you forgotten the wide scale rioting and shooting at the police by the various loyalist paramilitaries and some Orange order members on the Springfield road or have you forgotten the Drumcree dispute where the same people murdered four people including members of the UVF burning three children to death simply because they could not walk up a road.

    If you’re the PR man of loyalism and the UVF, they’re fkd.

    Mick regardless what you or I believe regarding the right to parade Wootton Bassett residents set the precedent in that residents where contentious parades pass through have a right to object and a right not to to feel intimidated or insulted by those taking part in a parade.

  • Ulster Press Centre

    tacapall: UPC have you forgotten the wide scale rioting and shooting at the police by the various loyalist paramilitaries and some Orange order members on the Springfield road

    And perhaps those involved in that violence might think if they behave like that on a continuing basis they too can tell the PSNI, Secretary of State and the undemocratic, authoritarian Stormont regime what to do too. It seems to be paying dividends for the catholic fundamentalists in this country…

  • tacapall

    “And perhaps those involved in that violence might think if they behave like that on a continuing basis they too can tell the PSNI, Secretary of State and the undemocratic, authoritarian Stormont regime what to do too. It seems to be paying dividends for the catholic fundamentalists in this country”

    UPC unionism and loyalism have been doing that from this state was first manufactured I could post you up evidence of multiple murders being inflicted on innocent people during the 20s by supporters of the Orange order during those so called religious marches celebrating victory in a battle where not even one of their ancestors was even involved in, a war and a victory financed by the very people,who those preachers at the field denounce as the Anti Christ. Honestly do loyalists even know the history of the battle of the Boyne and what the war was about ?

  • Ulster Press Centre

    Let’s keep it to living history ae charae.

    Now, do you have a sensible point to make?

  • tacapall

    “Let’s keep it to living history ae charae.”

    Fair enough UPC so who’s the person using historical violence as a precedent for supporting the rights of others to engage in violence – Your good self. Now really, do you have a good point to make ?

  • Ulster Press Centre

    tacapall: Fair enough UPC so who’s the person using historical violence as a precedent for supporting the rights of others to engage in violence – Your good self. Now really, do you have a good point to make ?

    Violence over the past three years = ‘historical’??

    Have you been drinking today???

  • tacapall

    Here’s a shovel UPC – Dig your way out.

  • Ulster Press Centre

    I’ll take that as your apology.

  • sectarianheadcount

    The decision is laughable, risible nonsense. How can a feeder parade be deemed sufficiently non-sectarian and inoffensive to pass through an area in the morning, but exactly the same parade be deemed unacceptable in the evening!? The Orange should have the right to march where they want and Republicans should have the right to march wherever they want. Still, if you create and maintain little statelets based on contrived sectarian headcounts, sectarian circuses are what you get…

  • streetlegal

    British intelligence monitoring of the Orange Order has pointed up the danger of a major loyalist show of strength this year in Belfast. For that reason Matt Baggot has been provided with sufficient reinforcements from across the water to contain the situation. British Army units are also on standby for rapid deployment to Belfast, should the situation threaten to get out of hand.

  • Morpheus

    I see they are playing the Stormont hokey-cokey:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23262398

  • tacapall

    UPC in my mind and probably most people, the past is the past whether its 80 years ago 30 years ago or two years ago, its still the past. You cant cherry pick which parts of it suits your narrative.

  • redstar2011

    I note the assembly farce is to be recalled on 16/7 to discuss the problem(?) of Ardoyne on 12/7

  • JR

    I don’t see what the fuss is about. Unionists throwing the dummy out of the pram again because they can’t walk every meter of every road they want to parade. It is only a short stretch out of one parade from hundreds. It is not as if everyone involved in this parade won’t be participating in dozens of other parades.

    Sharing isn’t getting everything you want when you want it all the time.

  • keano10

    Mick,

    Maybe you have been having a few drinks today in the summer sun, but that last post of yours was bizarre to say the least…

    ” three Ligoniel (increasingly mixed) Orange Lodges”

    Are you having a laugh here Mick??? Seriously…?

    Are you seriously trying to imply that The Ligoniel Orange Lodge has been inundated by local Catholics

    Maybe its time for you to retire for the evening Mick and leave your anti-Nationalist prejudices to one side just for once…

  • Comrade Stalin

    Mick,

    In another discussion you talked about the need to not jump to conclusions, the need for evidence, absence of a smoking gun etc. In that context is there any chance at all that you can explain your inflammatory remarks that the Parades Commission determination was motivated either by the need to punish the Orange Order, or the need to reward violence ?

    You are basically saying there are no reasonable grounds to reroute a parade and that when it happens it’s to appease a threat of violence. Given that the PC have not followed this logic for at least three years now I’m at a loss as to why you would think this.

    The PC’s inconsistency (punitive measures for a band playing ‘offensive’ tunes in front of St Patricks,

    Are you suggesting that these measures were not appropriate ?

    and putting them off the road when Republicans riot every year over four)

    Can you translate this sentence into English – putting who off the road, what does “riot every year over four” mean ?

    and provision of perversely negative incentives, is in my view, storing up difficulty for the future…

    Exactly what positive incentives are possible ?

    And why, exactly, are we not talking about how the Orange Order could make a contribution to ensuring that Parades Commission decisions are more favourable to them ? Like by talking to the residents ?

    Here’s Peter Osborne fielding accusations that the PC ‘talks down to residents’ and that its deliberations are ‘inconsistent and not transparent’ in the view of the OO…

    Having uncritically repeated the DUP line that the PC are punishing the marchers and rewarding violence, you are now parroting the unionist line that has been put out since day one that the PC is unfair and needs to be abolished. Sure, the Parades Commission is not perfect and cannot be. No two situations are the same, no two neighbourhoods or sets of marches are the same. The problem is – what do you replace it with ? In the absence of local agreement some sort of organization needs to examine the facts as best as possible and impose a decision.

    There would be no need for a Parades Commission if the Orange Order did what civic-minded people around the world do and talk to the people who will feel the impact of their parades, and accepted now and then that for the greater good it would be better if the odd one did not proceed.

  • Mick Fealty

    Ligoniel, not the lodge… I knew it could be interpreted that way, but only by someone who was really making an effort not to get it… [as general rule, no drinks before nine]

  • Mick Fealty

    CS, you and I go back a very very long way… way before Slugger… so you will understand that I do not have the time available to answer for a proposition I did not make…

    I did not say, or imply that the PC was entertaining a ‘need’ to do anything. What I did argue was that there is an inconsistency here. It was on that basis I mentioned that this is turning into a one way street where the OO get it in the neck everytime.

    If you are going to punish the OO for playing an offensive tune, then where is the punishment for the rioters? There isn’t any. In fact if those figures are correct, more protestors are being allowed than lodge member down the road.

    Now, it might work. If we get a year off from the rioting. But if it is quiet this year, and the PC proposes reinstating next the residents will likely argue that there were no disturbances this year so why take the risk of re-inflating them next…

    This is all very fine, if you already hold the OO in contempt. But what is happening in instrumental terms is that policy over the use of what remains a public highway is being set by bottom up force.

    Hardly a precedent in Belfast, but nor does it augur well for the future either..

    That holds all kinds of negative potentials for the future. Housing, re-development, etc.. BTW, if it is considered inflammatory to criticise the PC, where and what are people allowed to say in a public square?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Mick, you said :

    The Oranges goose was cooked from last year when PP punished them for three years of unprovoked republican rioting…

    You are entitled to your view but that is a highly partial one. There is no evidence that the PC’s objective is to exact “punishment”, or that they were motivated to do so by republican rioting.

    If you are going to punish the OO for playing an offensive tune, then where is the punishment for the rioters? There isn’t any.

    There aren’t ? What do you call the dozens of arrests and prosecutions in Ardoyne last year and in the previous year ? There are still details of people being prosecuted appearing in the papers within the past week or so. Didn’t you notice ?

    [Quite right too, I might add. If it were me I’d have flooded the place with cops and lifted the lot of them. ]

    In fact if those figures are correct, more protestors are being allowed than lodge member down the road.

    Not sure what that has to do with the price of a loaf of bread ..

    Now, it might work. If we get a year off from the rioting. But if it is quiet this year, and the PC proposes reinstating next the residents will likely argue that there were no disturbances this year so why take the risk of re-inflating them next…

    Back up a wee second. Who says that the Parades Commission has made this decision with a view specifically to prevent republican rioting ? To do so would be clearly inviting people to riot in order to influence their decisions.

    This is all very fine, if you already hold the OO in contempt. But what is happening in instrumental terms is that policy over the use of what remains a public highway is being set by bottom up force.

    If you’re going to claim that this particular PC decision was motivated by a desire to avoid violence, why not claim that the previous decisions were also motivated by a need to prevent loyalist violence ? Both sides – more or less equally – have significant form in reacting violently to unfavourable PC decisions. The loyalists tend to try to do it by blocking roads and disrupting traffic – I remember being prevented from getting home from work following the Whiterock disturbances (during which loyalists fired live rounds and crossbow bolts at the police and army).

    That holds all kinds of negative potentials for the future. Housing, re-development, etc.. BTW, if it is considered inflammatory to criticise the PC

    You were not merely criticising the PC. You were ascribing specific motivations to its decisions without evidence.

    , where and what are people allowed to say in a public square?

    People can say whatever they like whenever they like, it’s not about silencing people. But if you’re going to call yourself an organ of record you are creating an expectation that you will be impartial.

  • Mick Fealty

    You are confusing flegs and Ardoyne… Here’s Gonzo, Ardoyne 2009: http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/07/17/inside-the-ardoyne-riot/

    This kicks off 1/2 hour before any Orangeman puts a foot on the Crumlin Road… [rinse and repeat x 4]

  • Morpheus

    What do you think the chances are of those in Ardoyne rioting if the Parades aren’t going through the area? Next to nothing, like the rest of the year?

  • Reader

    Morpheus: What do you think the chances are of those in Ardoyne rioting if the Parades aren’t going through the area? Next to nothing, like the rest of the year?
    Or we could just pay them money to stay at home. Danegeld, it’s called.
    But, in any case, I was under the impression that the hard core of the rioters each year was composed of travelling supporters. If the OO is permanently kept out of the 200 metre exclusion zone round Ardoyne, then the Lurgan spides will just move on to the next flashpoint.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Tapacall

    “Honestly do loyalists even know the history of the battle of the Boyne and what the war was about ?”

    From my experience, no.

    Mention the merging of the Dutch and British crowns with a view to obtaining a stock exchange to an orangeman and I would wager you’d get a quizzical look.

    Persevere further and mention the Habsburg-centric interests of the pope at the time and the consequential Augsburg Alliance then you’ll be receive awkward smiles that try to mask the thoughts of “whats he talkin’ about?!”.

    Go further still and mention that Cromwell (not even a part of the Williamite wars but still gets a look-in on some loyalist arches) killed quite a few Presbyterians and Covenanters during the Confederacy Wars and you’ll be asked to leave.

    Why have facts when you can have only the juicy bits…

  • Lionel Hutz

    Does anyone know if you can read these determinations? I think we should be able to read the reasoning

    It seems to me though that we have to remember that the Parades Commission work 365 days a year and were clearly trying to facilitate dialogue. Residents have been up for that and the Orange Order have not. I wonder was the writing on the wall for the Order because of their failure to talk and that was the reason for their last minute attempt to talk.

    But I think we would learn alot more by reading this determination and the determination for last years parade but I cannot find them on the website.

    Does anyone know?

  • Lionel Hutz

    See it here actually.

    http://www.paradescommission.org/fs/files/det-earl-of-erne-lol-647-12july-20131.pdf

    See Paragraph 9 in particular. This is probably because the Orange Order waited until 6 days before the determination to start any talks. Which was always too short. Whereas residents made themselves available. Thats what the commission is rewarding

  • @tacapall,

    “UPC in my mind and probably most people, the past is the past whether its 80 years ago 30 years ago or two years ago, its still the past. You cant cherry pick which parts of it suits your narrative.”

    Strictly speaking the present is an abstract notion as everything as soon as it is done is in the past and what hasn’t yet been done is in the future. Most people, I think have an idea or concept of a present that consists of the recent past and possibly even the very near future. You can argue over where the boundary of that is with the remote past. To many people an event that happened two or three years ago is still in that working concept of the present.

  • Morpheus

    The Residents Groups have called off their protest:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23250221

    SoS says she has no powers:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23266421

  • Fried Young Cannibal

    “There’s only one message the Loyalist community can realistically take from this ludicrous sectarian decision – VIOLENCE PAYS.

    I certainly won’t be joining in any condemnation when young Loyalists realise the only way they can have their civil rights respected is by copying the successful, law-breaking tactics of the Nationalist community.”

    That’s right, it’s them fenians making young loyalists from areas covered in UDA and UVF murals and flegs think that violence pays so it is.