PSNI responsible for “persecution of the Protestant people” – DUP

A prominent DUP elected representative has launched a fierce attack on the PSNI at a loyalist gathering in Carrickfergus.

Addressing a rally organized by Carrickfergus United Loyalists in the town yesterday, DUP councillor Ruth Patterson delivered a scathing attack on the PSNI, accusing the police of being responsible for “the persecution of the Protestant people” and of “beating our women and our children off the streets.”

 From Ruth’s speech:

“[I am] Ashamed of the PSNI at the minute. The political policing and persecution of our Protestant people must stop. They beat our women and our children off the streets, they throw our pensioners into jail. They jail our young kids for waving the Union Flag of the country- provocatively. That in my book is wrong and they must be held accountable for that.

“Gerry Kelly has him (PSNI Chief Constable) wrapped around his wee finger. That has to change. He needs to go and we know he needs to go. In fact members of his own force know that he needs to go. He’s a disgrace.”

Mike Nesbitt, Jim Allister and Carrickfergus loyalist, Jim McCaw, also spoke to the assembled loyalists and members of Loyal Orders who paraded through the town. PUP Leader, Billy Hutchinson, also spoke, making a pledge that Belfast PUP candidates “will sign a public declaration… that, if they’re elected, the first thing that will be on the agenda will be the Union Flag.

 All Prod hands to the pumps (Obviously, those culturally Irish sorts need not apply…)

 

  • galloglaigh

    Confident unionism there for you Chris! Ruth is the epitome of unionist intransigence!

  • michael-mcivor

    Is the DUP now opposed to law breakers been sent to the courts-has Ruth got her own justice system-

    A DUP elected member chants for the Chief Constable to go-will Ruths party leadership support her or tell her to go-

  • aquifer

    Watercannon have their uses.

  • DC
  • Drumlins Rock

    Ruth would need to be careful whats she wish’s for, what if the Deputy Chief Constable took over?

  • Comrade Stalin

    I’m confused. If Ruth has such a dislike of Sinn Féin why is she a member of a party which shares power with them ?

  • Sp12

    “https://www.change.org/petitions/petition-david-cameron-to-investigate-the-p-s-n-i-human-rights-abuses-on-the-protestant-community-since-3rd-dec-2012”

    “anne Branagh BELFAST, UNITED KINGDOM 1 day ago
    in all the years of the troubles ive never seen so much hatred they have against the protestant people and the brutality from the ninjas”

    Ninjas!
    There’s no hope for the loyal Ulster people
    SF/IRA/PSNI/NINJAS out!

  • BluesJazz

    The only people ‘persecuted’ by the pathetic PSNI are motorists. 90% of their resources concentrated on making sure no-one drives in a bus lane at 9.29am.
    Also:

    Making sure the food safety is up to scratch at ‘Abkebraba’ and that no-one is shooting crows illegally around Strangford Lough (12 officers at 1 location there yesterday). At least they’re competent in accessing their smartphones for updates on facebook.

    getting paid 30-40k plus for being a traffic warden?

    And MI5 and the SRS do the *real* work. Chocolate fireguard. No wonder the applications to join are up there with the sleepover Fire service.

  • FDM

    Members of the PUL community actually tried to murder police during the fleg protests over a flag.

    If they were actually discriminated against out of jobs, houses, education etc… and treated as second class citizens in general, accompanied by a string of murders by state agencies upon their community, would this precipitate an armed insurrection against the state?

    Then of course in the same breath they have the audacity to blame republicans for starting and perpetuating the troubles.

    Irony must be in the same class of materials as “Bronzy” and “Tinny” to Ruth and co.

  • aquifer

    Legal protests are facilitated, communities protected, the hoodies with pistols did not get out to play, nobody died, offenders prosecuted, people just getting to where they want to go to, the Union Jack did not become ‘the butchers apron’.

    A better police service than our politicians deserve.

    Provos and provocateurs, pretending to oppose one another, but flattering instead.

    Get this duff double act off the stage.

  • aquifer

    “90% of their resources concentrated on making sure no-one drives in a bus lane at 9.29am”

    Yes. Selfish anarchists have civil rights too.

  • keano10

    Never has there a struck a more pathetic figure than Mike Nesbitt. Completely and totally out of his depth and most likely the most incompetent leader of a once-proud party in it’s long history. Parading through the streets of Carrick with the lowest common denominator of modern day Loyalism. Jim Allister, The Protestant Coalition, and multitudes of overweight Loyalist women singing the Billy Boys. The list goes on and on…

    Nesbitt has become a living caricature. Bizarre. Truly bizarre…

  • aquifer

    The RUC in Carrick used to beat up innocent Catholic youths.

    Were those retirees in the select crowd?

  • DC

    @Keano

    Yea Nesbitt, what a complete and utter waster, i mean imagine walking with working class protestant lowlifes, these scum should just simply be ignored? Instead it’s time to restore UUP pride by doing what that party used to do best, treat them with contempt. Of course the perception is the Alliance has taken over from them now in that regard, so the UUP would have to do battle with them on that one which could actually just be as equally tasteless, if not more so.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if there is that sort of mindset in the courts service (highly educated types with therefore very very subtle yet sophisticated class based sectarianism) – oh union flagger – orange working class – retrograde scum – strict bail conditions must apply.

    We should all be moving forward in a progressive way Buzz Lightyear style – to neutrality and beyond!

  • Rory Carr

    Control of Protestants
    Despite much popular myth about the Spanish Inquisition relating to Protestants, it dealt with very few cases involving actual Protestants, as there were so few in Spain.” (Wikipedia – Spanish Inquisition – excerpt)

    …and so the Inquisition turned to Norn Irn where there where Protestants all over the place and there unleashed their agents, the Polite Spaniards of the Northern Inquisitiion (PSNI), to submit any daring to proclaim the Protestant faith (so long as it did not involve any practical Christian observance such as church attendance or neighbourly tolerance) to horrific torture including asking them to behave themselves every once in a while.

    Such was the courage of the Pradestan People in resisting this oppression that they raised a petition to the British Prime Minister (including lots of mistakes so that he would not be in any doubt as to its authenticity) to which “approaching 100” of the most learned members of their community fearlessly appended their signature.

    The Prime Minister smiled and passed the petition to his underling to deal with – the rich Catholic, Ian Duncan-Smith.

    Such cruelty !

  • FDM

    “Whether you loathe … your politicians … get behind them”. Ruth Patterson in that clip.

    I am not sure democracy has been explained to Ruth. People generally support and vote for politicians that they don’t actually loathe.

    There will be indications for Ruth and co. of just this type of strange voting behaviour at the next election. I predict that the APNI vote will be a slap in face to the fleggers [and our own slugger Fleggy McFleg] and those apologists within the UUP and DUP providing cover for their religio-politically motivated street violence.

    Where can I get a scarf like Ruths by the way? Is this the new Anti-democracy range Vivienne Westwood?

  • DC

    I predict that the APNI vote will be a slap in face to the fleggers

    Well with any luck the vote might grow in nationalist areas and you guys can deal with them and fallout from them with their Erased Future.

    I can’t take any more visits by Jim Allister and Ruth Patterson!

    It was like Mordor.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    ““Whether you loathe … your politicians … get behind them”. Ruth Patterson in that clip.”

    Has Norn Iron finally turned into a Douglas Adams novel?

    ————————————————————–

    “…The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.”

    “Odd,” said Arthur, “I though you said it was a democracy.”

    “I did,” said Ford. “It is.”

    “So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t the people get rid of the lizards?”

    “It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.”

    “You mean they actually vote for the lizards?”

    “Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.”

    “But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?”

    “Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”

    “What?”

    “I said,” said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, “have you got any gin?”

    “I’ll look. Tell me about the lizards.”

    Ford shrugged again.

    “Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them,” he said. “They’re completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone’s got to say it.”
    ——————————————————

    As for Nesbitt, he can’t ‘outdo’ Grim Jim and the DUPers in terms of fundamentalism (or whatever you want to call it, nut-jobism, headinthesandism, nosurrenderism) so why bother?

  • aquifer

    And if these kind of speeches crack off a lot of law abiding hard working protestants to go and vote Alliance, giving them the balance of power, that is political oppression.

    Welcome to the wacky world of the Supervictim, the perp who promotes illegality and disorder and then whines when the law is enforced or when they sustain an injury less severe than the ones they had planned for the police.

    These idiots won’t be satisfied until they are facing Gurkhas with UN helmets on.

    If they want S&M please find a friend on the internet and go rent a room.

  • FDM[11.34]
    I suspect Ruth doth protest too much, revealing in the process, that it’s not equal treatment she wants from the PSNI to Protestants, but preferential treatrment. Patterson seems to have difficulty with O’Neill’s reforms 45 years ago and thinks it’s all gone downhill since.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Nesbitt’s message to the electorate is very confusing.

    On one hand he is attacking the DUP during various interviews over their decisions on care homes at the Maze.

    On the other hand, he is attending UVF/UDA rallies such as this one in Carrickfergus and issuing impossible promises. But moreover he pledges to support joint candidates. What this in effect is about is that Mike Nesbitt will elect a unionist who would close the care homes rather than electing a non-unionist who would not.

    I struggle to understand how in the face of an impending nationalist majority the unionists believe that burying their heads in the sand and retreating back into their comfort zones can deliver the kind of stability or confidence they are promising. But at this point I don’t even think Mike knows; he’s desperately clutching at whatever straws he can in the belief that one of them will save him and his party.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Daniel,

    What was really noticeable was the way Ruth reacted when a member of the crowd swore at her and accused her of being a partner with Sinn Féin. She dropped her voice and delivered a four-minute Paisley-style rant, which was obviously like catnip to this crowd. They’re so easily fooled.

    Ruth should really be in the TUV and she is clearly opposed to power sharing with SF. However she knows that the DUP is her only ticket to winning a seat as an MLA which is what she really cares about.

  • FDM

    @Am Ghobsmacht 6 May 2013 at 12:49 pm

    The Dougie Adams analogy is hilarious.

    If voting lizard could keep out Sinn Fein, then Stormont would be awash with reptiles…

  • CS[1.37] It’s hard to tell if these desperadoes are aware of how their antics this past six months are giving a boost to nationalist morale or not, but if they think it does, surely they would have avoided showing their insecurities for the world to see. Sigmund Freud would have his work cut out with this lot if he were around. But then he’s quoted as saying the entire human race is just a rabble.

  • GavBelfast

    Many would probably say that Stormont is already awash with reptiles ….

  • BluesJazz

    Good to see the PSNI at Tyrella Beach today oppressing both Protestant and Catholic dog owners, those guys sure do know their crime hotspots.
    Of course it might have been cover for observing dissidents and would be flag protesters.

  • Kevsterino

    When is the DUP going to commit to support the forces of law and order?

  • Submariner

    Oh dear Bluesjazz have you still not gotten over being turned down for the PSNI

  • Comrade Stalin

    BluesJazz,

    The argument that all law enforcement activities should be suspended in favour of chasing dissidents is juvenile and ridiculous, much like the argument that all government spending should be diverted to NHS hospital beds.

  • BluesJazz

    No CS, the point is:
    Why do the PSNI pick out misdeameanours, which carry no criminal penalty, to spend time wasting?

    Dogs, bus lanes, being 5mph over the limit etc etc.

    It’s petty and annoying, yet Slab Murphy pisses all over them. How many arrests for massive fuel laundering?

    *Prorities*. If I use a hose on my neighbours cat using my back garden as a public convenience, the police are out in 5 minutes. Because it puts the day in. Same with defective left brake light. An hour to write the report and home to study the brochures for Orlando.
    I’d like to see the speeding fines for South Armagh (if there are any, which I doubt.

  • Comrade Stalin

    BJ,

    Probably because these are issues about which the local community complain. And it’s all subjective. I see people doing 80mph on the motorway all the time, with the police nearby doing nothing, probably because they can’t be arsed with the paperwork.

  • I just looked at that video clip.

    It is very hard to avoid a conclusion that this is one of the most repulsive politicians that I have ever listened to. She is the unacceptable face of unionism.

  • Hopping The Border

    Comrade,

    “I see people doing 80mph on the motorway all the time”

    As I understand it 80 is the de facto motorway limit as PSNI operate a 10% + 3mph leeway zone for all speed limits.

  • USA

    DC,
    That petition is a joke. Only 173 people bothered their arse to sign it, and half of them are Nationalists taking the piss. One person who signed it gave the following rationale in the comments section:
    “This is imortant for till tell the taigs that are human rights are more important then there human rights we as british citysins should be free to flow the fleg more than our bristsih sisters and brotehr’s in the rest of UK that is ekwallity as we see it more equal cos we love the queen and can whistle her n the dirty taigs own lee boo her n are paraids our not aloud to walk down taig streets witch is tradishingly who we yoused to get on tehre tits. Wear is the justice
    Reminds me of the recent DUP petition over the “flegs / intimidate Alliance” issue. You know the one where the DUP didn’t ask any Nationalists for their opinion and got results showing 95% of Belfast wanted the “fleg” up 459 days a year 🙂 Say wha?

  • Ruarai

    How depressing.

    No society anywhere on earth has a chance of moving forward when all it takes to grab the headlines and build a constituency is to stand in a car park, literally wrapped in a flag, ranting like a Life of Brian character.

    Embarassing for us all.

    NI has a disasterous over-representation problem. This lady, surronded by no more a couple of dozen people, rambles away without any sense of irony, responsibility or even really any sense period, ranting away – and it makes news.

    Too many mandates and too little real power.

    Reduce the representation and increase the responsibility.

  • aquifer

    Fund the parties.

    Enable them to attract attention to themselves without inflaming and flattering the sectarian mobs.

  • Reader

    keano10: Parading through the streets of Carrick with the lowest common denominator of modern day Loyalism. Jim Allister, The Protestant Coalition, and multitudes of overweight Loyalist women singing the Billy Boys. The list goes on and on…
    It seems a bit unfair. The unionist parties have been pilloried endlessly on Slugger for failing to engage with the loyalist underclass. Then, when they do engage, using the time honoured local techniques of Mopery and Rabble-rousing, the parties get slagged off again.

  • Morpheus

    I would’ve thought the days of standing in a car park telling 30-odd people what they wanted to hear were long gone. The leader of the Ulster Unionist Party didn’t even have a microphone never mind a soapbox!

  • Comrade Stalin

    Reader, but as I think you know this is not “engaging”. It’s a cheap playing to the gallery; as you said, the time honoured practice of scaring the loyalists about SF and all their evil works.

  • Keano10[8.46] Talking about Sunny Jim, it’s oddly apt that the colour of the TUV is shown as purple, faithfully representing Jim et al as in an apparently constant state of fury at something or other, usually SF/nationalists generally. By the way UTV website has ignored the Ruth Patterson rant, obviously they have too many friends in the DUP to risk embarassing them.

  • Reader

    Comrade Stalin: Reader, but as I think you know this is not “engaging”. It’s a cheap playing to the gallery; as you said, the time honoured practice of scaring the loyalists about SF and all their evil works.
    Well, it’s the end of 5 months of vote grubbing which will probably reduce both the DUP and Alliance votes but give East Belfast back to the DUP by default. It was never going to be pretty.
    As for the terminology, ‘engaging with’ is probably a near synonym for ‘vote-grubbing’ round here; and ‘grandstanding’ is the noisy variant of both. What political party has made serious efforts to change the lives and outlook of the rednecks? Not even Alliance, I think.

  • DC

    Reader – to be fair, Alliance have met with loyalists but they do not listen or act on concerns raised (http://extremisproject.org/2012/12/making-sense-of-the-latest-violence-in-northern-ireland/) – and if anything can be as dogmatic in terms of seeing through their ‘shared future’ vision as the ‘no surrender’ club is with theirs, which might explain some of the friction out there at the moment.

    the time honoured practice of scaring the loyalists about SF and all their evil works.

    Two politicians were like that – the Mordor Club – the others focused on getting out the vote from what i could hear and one said to ignore what SF was doing and focus on own interests.

  • FDM

    @DC and the fleggers

    What a load of crap DC. Here are the Ulster Peoples Forums DEMANDS, their words.

    “1. A return to direct rule because of the failing of our political representatives”

    So democracy is not acceptable to East Belfast because there are too many mandated nationalist politicians in government and we can’t get our own way anymore. Bawahahahaha. Democracy is a bitch, a’int it?

    “2. The Union Flag to be flown from every Council building across Northern Ireland”

    Not content with marking every loyalist street corner, every lamp-post and telephone pole, like well watered dogs, the entire of Northern Ireland must be IN YOUR FACE BRITISH so that the Irish types know where they are and who rules the roost. Why not paint the kerb stones red, white and blue all the up to the entrance of a catholic girls school to intimidate the 4-11 year olds? Sorry [tick] that one is done already.

    “3. Police Service of Northern Ireland to refrain from the physical abuse of peaceful protestors and to stop the present political policing”

    Rather than accept the partisan and incredibly lenient approach of the PSNI to dealing with the fleggers lets stretch reality to see if we can actually make them withdraw all the way back into the Police stations. Any level of violence is acceptable to make the PSNI yield, even attempted murder.

    “4. An immediate end to appeasing the anti British nationalist socialist agenda by the persistent undermining of Protestant Unionist Loyalist culture, heritage and traditions”

    Would you please tell all those croppies with the vote to lie down. This is our wee country not theirs. We don’t care if they will have a majority or that they have a democratic vote. WE OWN THIS PLACE and only allow them to be guests. If they don’t like it they can move to the Republic.

    “it was clearly demonstrated that many Protestants feel that nationalist socialist Sinn Fein has acted outside the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.”

    We want nationalists to stop being nationalists because that offends our unionist sensibilities. Democracy is only acceptable when unionists hold the majority.

    Yet DC has the audacity to say that “Alliance … can be as dogmatic in terms of seeing through their ‘shared future’ vision”.

    DOGMA? You read those DEMANDS above and you laughingly talk about DOGMA? At least APNI are committed to democracy! If you and the East Belfast Fleg Association, or whatever you call yourselves this week, can’t start from that premise then I can tell you that there is simply NO HOPE for you.

    Democracy is THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN.

    The quicker you get that, then the quicker the people who work and the tourists can get up and down the streets of East Belfast, without having to run a gauntlet of burning cars, fleg-drapped spongers, loud-mouthed UVF “cultural attaches” and “historical flegs” justifying a terrorist organisation attached to every available space.

  • Red Lion

    Where is the new Basil and John party??

    Comrade you’ve got your ear to the ground whats the crack?

  • changeisneeded

    @FDM
    Thank you.

  • DC

    @FDM

    Your rant might sound good, but there were no ulster people’s forum speakers there.

    I am only offering an explanation, i never said it was the explanation. So bear that in mind in future about things.

    I think there is a realisation out there that working class unionist areas need to come out and vote so that that pushes up their representation to a level which can co-exist with the likes of Alliance and negotiate on shared future based on a strong turn out at the polls, than have it imposed on them from a position of weakness.

    There is probably a bit of resentment that the UUP has collapsed and with the DUP corrupted in E Belfast this has all too easily paved the way for Alliance on this, too easily in terms of not consulting and listening directly to the people that their policy is going to affect – such as loyalists.

    And from what i can read of shared future it is largely about regulating and reducing unionist and loyalist symbols that will disproportionately affect loyalist areas, which alliance doesn’t have any meaningful roots in. So, you can kind of see why it might be best to at least try and talk and listen to those that your policy is going to affect, than be dogmatic and say to hell with it – the upper middle class prods and some catholics like that have spoken – so like it or lump it!

    Re Fleggers – now correct me if i am wrong, did the SDLP not have a ‘Flag Watch’ campaign kicking off way back in 2006, it’s the nationalist SDLP who seem to have a longer history and fixation with all things Fleggy McFleggy McFleg:

    http://www.albanmaginness.com/comm_0022.html

    Finally, I had a right laugh to myself whenever the tricolour appeared on Black Mountain – AGAIN – I don’t think even having flag protocol in place would work on getting that bad boy taken down! Republicans always one step ahead and they are so fortunate to have useful idiots onside.

  • Neil

    Look on the bright side DC, thanks to Sammy’s intervention you’ll soon have 5 more flag poles in Belfast, flying the flag a minimum of a further 90 days a year to tack onto the 18 at City Hall. Add to that the several thousand adorning lamp posts and you’re stil well ahead of the game. Almost every street and bridge in Northern Ireland is named in honour of one of your political contemporaries and Stormont and the Council are pretty much decorated in the Unionist fashion. You may suffer the indignity of seeing Nationalist symbols added instead of Unionist ones taken away.

    Finally, I had a right laugh to myself whenever the tricolour appeared on Black Mountain – AGAIN – I don’t think even having flag protocol in place would work on getting that bad boy taken down!

    Now I think we all know that’s not true. A Loyalist mob would come up, remove it and mercilessly beat someone to a pulp with bats and hammers. AGAIN.

  • FDM

    @FDM

    “Your rant might sound good”

    Of course it did, I wrote it.

    “I think there is a realisation out there that working class unionist areas need to come out and vote so that that pushes up their representation to a level which can co-exist with the likes of Alliance and negotiate on shared future based on a strong turn out at the polls, than have it imposed on them from a position of weakness.”

    DC you have been sold a pup. You saw the census results. You just don’t have the numbers anymore. The “mass” fleg protests were handfuls of eejits, political wannabees and lets be honest tazer packing nutjobs. So how are you going to pull this political mandate rabbit out of the hat? Can’t the CNR community just turn up the volume as well, with their increased numbers? Aren’t SF the best at getting their electorate out in the entire region? Tell me I am wrong? Unless you crank up the unionist version of Treblinka the jig is up my friend.

    “There is probably a bit of resentment that the UUP has collapsed and with the DUP corrupted in E Belfast this has all too easily paved the way for Alliance on this, too easily in terms of not consulting and listening directly to the people that their policy is going to affect – such as loyalists.”

    The DUP are trying desperately to keep the UUP alive. I think 4/5 of the UUP MLAs got through on the last count at the previous election? Swingometer time! Hence the DUP are trying to life-support them to keep SF/SDLP at bay. The only party I actually see helping your community is APNI. They are trying to deal with REALITY. But if you want to kill the messenger then that’s up to you. The rest are lying to you, whilst APNI are trying to get you the best deal they can with the numbers they have. APNI won you a stay of execution for your flag. And heres one for you. The only way in the longer term you can ensure that a Union flag continues to have some place over city hall is to ensure that a tricolour stands beside it as soon as possible. Think that one through.

    “shared future it is largely about regulating and reducing unionist and loyalist symbols”

    SHARED future. One more time SHARED future. One day in the very near future both flags will be on top of city hall BECAUSE more balanced minds will prevail.

    “that will disproportionately affect loyalist areas”

    So loyalists disproportionately love their culture more than Irish nationalists? Where is the flag representing the majority population in Belfast on top of city hall?

    “which alliance doesn’t have any meaningful roots in”

    I think those are very hollow words and in 2015 they will come back to haunt the DUP/UUP and the fleggers. There are a lot of people in East Belfast who loathe UVF driven creeps destroying the peace and misrepresenting the wider community.

    “So, you can kind of see why it might be best to at least try and talk and listen to those that your policy is going to affect”

    That’s the point! They have and they did. APNI won a concession from SF and the SDLP in the BCC process. The problem is the “this is our country” dictators just don’t get that the scales have tipped and its not 1923 anymore.

  • Reader

    Neil: Now I think we all know that’s not true. A Loyalist mob would come up, remove it and mercilessly beat someone to a pulp with bats and hammers. AGAIN.
    It was only small flags this time:
    http://www.demotix.com/news/1968943/giant-message-thatcher-real-criminal-hillside-above-belfast#media-1968931
    Maybe the loyalists didn’t notice; or maybe they agreed with the republicans about Thatcher; or maybe the loyalists decided to treat Black Mountain as nationalist territory; or maybe they regard it as shared space where anyone might fly a flag. Who knows how sophisticated they have become since last year? Anyway, they didn’t turn up this time.

  • Reader

    Neil, this one’s a bit harder to explain away. Again, the dog didn’t bark in the night-time:
    http://www.demotix.com/news/2024737/republicans-erect-giant-banner-commemorating-1981-hunger-strike#media-2024734

  • DC

    @FDM

    You’ll notice i said ‘co-exist with the likes of Alliance’ and not beat the pan-nationalist front hands down and turn back the clock.

  • Neil

    Yes, and that second post refers to the occassion at which a man was savagely beaten in broad daylight. Hospitalised he was. So DC is incorrect that any ‘art’ (as the creators referred to it) would not be removed. It’s kind of a side issue at any rate, the real debate centres on public buildings, at which Sinn Fein voted in favour of hoisting the Union Flag on designated days. Seriously potentially damaging for the Shinners had those leaflets not surfaced for some reason. Still can’t figure out what was in it for the UUP.

  • DC

    Look on the bright side DC, thanks to Sammy’s intervention you’ll soon have 5 more flag poles in Belfast, flying the flag a minimum of a further 90 days a year to tack onto the 18 at City Hall. Add to that the several thousand adorning lamp posts and you’re stil well ahead of the game.

    True Neill.

    I imagine also that the purple harmless ‘heritage’ flags on display have steadied the nerves of certain loyalists in east Belfast too, possibly entering calmer waters once again.

  • Neil

    I don’t think we’ll be regulating lamp posts any time soon so you should be good on that front. Calmer waters sound good DC. Business will be relieved.

  • Comrade Stalin

    DC,

    The problem is not that people need to listen to loyalists, the problem is that they need to be led and they refuse to heed good counsel. They are making demands that nobody can deliver.

    For example, nobody can deliver 24/7/365 flags. That’s why the UUP voted for designated days in Stormont and in the councils where they had the balance of power; and why the DUP raised no serious objections to the designated days policy until it became politically judicious for them to do so.

    As FDM has already pointed out, the other demands being made by these people are completely unreasonable and unrealistic. They are demanding a return to direct rule, seeking to ignore the fact that only one out of the 108 MLAs in the Assembly in 2011 was elected on an anti-powersharing ticket. Accomodating their minority voice may be possible but not by countermanding the voice of the majority.

    I don’t know whether or not you picked up on the fact that when Sammy Wilson introduced his extra flags today, he did so on designated days only. That’s because if he introduced the flags every day he would get sued because it is against equality commission guidelines and the legal advice. That is the reality that you and the other fleggers have to confront.

    You keep using the term “shared future” but I do not think it means what you think it means. Your language up there, get more unionists elected so that they can negotiated a shared future, reeks of doublethink; you clearly think that it means that unionists get whatever the hell they want. Here’s a hint for you. Start thinking of what additional concessions you’re prepared to make – because they’re coming one way or another.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I would support an initiative to hunt down and prosecute the people erecting tricolours and vandalizing the Black Mountain. But it won’t happen because the unionists won’t get behind it.

  • Neil

    You shouldn’t have any difficulty CS at least one individual (he who was beaten by that Loyalist mob) was in the Andersonstown News. However it may not be vandalism, as nothing is permanent. I suspect it’s not illegal.

  • DC

    Comrade, I imagine the larger the turnout the better the quality or perhaps diversity of representation and therefore more people sharing in the ‘shared future’ debate the better, in terms of tying down these identity issues.

    Start thinking of what additional concessions you’re prepared to make – because they’re coming one way or another.

    I think that’s a valid point which is why it might be better to try and politicise and organise for change, prepare the ground for pain and hopefully gain.

    But! if you guys are delivering change you too should negotiate all of this with those that it is affecting, lead on it, same applies to alliance as it does with the DUP and UUP. There’s no point attempting to wash your hands off it like you did with the flag fallout, to me it’s a bit like the Tories introducing the poll tax and saying the great unwashed are rioting why didn’t the Labour party lead on this with us and attempt to tame these beasts!

  • FDM

    @DC

    You are not stupid I can’t believe you wrote this.

    “But! if you guys are delivering change you too should negotiate all of this with those that it is affecting, lead on it, same applies to alliance as it does with the DUP and UUP.”

    Seriously and for the first time on slugger, ffs! APNI have 6 councillors on BCC. That’s six (6). SF have nearly three time their number on BCC.

    So how exactly are APNI supposed to be the tail that wags the dog at BCC?

    “There’s no point attempting to wash your hands off it like you did with the flag fallout, to me it’s a bit like the Tories introducing the poll tax and saying the great unwashed are rioting why didn’t the Labour party lead on this with us and attempt to tame these beasts!”

    Jesus wept they have 6 councillors out of 51. They did the MOST to deliver what they could AND then some for your community? All the while TRYING to appear as middle of the road.

    And what do they get as thanks?

    Their offices burnt out. Death threats.; Lundys ALL.

    There is no hope in this. This is no future in this DC. You must re-evaluate. I insist. You are not stupid. Perhaps by doing so you may LEAD some to a better place.

    I insist you re-evaluate your position. It holds no water. It leads to a desert upon which there is no water and you will all surely die. Re-evaluate I insist. We need you here, alive.

  • DC

    @FDM – what’s sauce for the goose surely is sauce for the APNI? 🙂

  • DC

    Jesus wept they have 6 councillors out of 51. They did the MOST to deliver what they could AND then some for your community? All the while TRYING to appear as middle of the road.

    You’ve just got a guilty conscience as the alliance are nice people and you rotters set them up.

  • Hopping The Border

    “But! if you guys are delivering change you too should negotiate all of this with those that it is affecting, lead on it, same applies to alliance as it does with the DUP and UUP. ”

    What is the point of negotiating with people who will repeat NO ad nauseam until their hand is forced by Westminster and Dublin, then go out rioting when they don’t get their way, eventually tire and begin the whole process all over again?

  • DC

    Hopping – if you believe that to be the collective attitude of unionism, surely you wouldn’t open negotiations with removing the flag completely? From 100 years of 365 to zero?

    Maybe genuine progress would’ve been made if certain political parties stopped being completely silly, i mean attempting to publicly debag your political opponents – while funny to SF and SDLP – clearly does not create happy clappy ‘let’s compromise’ situations.

  • FDM

    @DC

    You’ve just got a guilty conscience as the alliance are nice people and you rotters set them up.

    —————————

    To be honest DC a lot of people observe this site watching us all bash heads.

    I just don’t think that narrative stands on any level.

    You guys were the ones calling them traitors, not me.

    I respect APNI as democrats.

    They did the best the could. They secured a better deal that could have been a helluva lot worse from your perspective.

    Up to you. Shoot the messenger or join reality.

    Can you be more than you were programmed to be?

    For one, I think so.

  • BluesJazz

    What does the average policeperson *do* everyday to earn over twice the pay of a soldier on operational duty in a warzone? That’s before the overtime £££££
    The answer might provide the fact that tens of thousands apply for a cushy number retiring at under 50 and mostly doing f all. Only the NIFRS comes close to best job in the world.
    The fact that most are useless feathernesters is mainly due to the civil service mentality that prevails.

  • DC

    The fact that most are useless feathernesters is mainly due to the civil service mentality that prevails.

    After hearing more Tories come out about leaving the EU, i was thinking surely the biggest threat to the EU bureaucracy is the potential inability to fund it as it currently is, especially if austerity measures spike that kind of thinking – what’s your option to fund elderly care homes or ‘useless, faceless, feathernesting EU bureaucrats’.

  • Comrade Stalin

    DC,

    Comrade, I imagine the larger the turnout the better the quality or perhaps diversity of representation and therefore more people sharing in the ‘shared future’ debate the better, in terms of tying down these identity issues.

    Instead of imagining, why don’t you spend some time contemplating the reality, which is that unionist politicians are organizing to reduce the diversity of unionist representation through electoral pacts, not increase it. Mike Nesbitt doesn’t care if a donkey runs for a unionist ticket as long as it ensures a non-unionist doesn’t win the seat.

    I think that’s a valid point which is why it might be better to try and politicise and organise for change, prepare the ground for pain and hopefully gain.

    None of which is going to happen while unionists are agitating their supporters to fight to the death for every indefensible sliver of ground. The flag on City Hall is gone and it is not coming back. Unionists need to start admitting that, instead of trying to pretend that the situation is reversible, or trying to compensate by adding more flags elsewhere.

    But! if you guys are delivering change you too should negotiate all of this with those that it is affecting, lead on it, same applies to alliance as it does with the DUP and UUP.

    I have no problem talking and listening to anyone; where they have ideas or suggestions, take them on board. But negotiation is different. It should be between the elected political parties and the governments. Nobody else has a mandate to represent anyone and it is a disservice to democracy to act as though they do.

    There’s no point attempting to wash your hands off it like you did with the flag fallout,

    Who is washing their hands ? The flag decision was the right one, the Cenotaph was the right one too (although no doubt the RBL acting to slap down the DUP’s ambitions that time has helped that story to disappear from the agenda). Alliance are not responsible for the artificially-induced tension thrown into the mix by the DUP and UUP.

    The DUP are going to find themselves in an extremely awkward position in Newtownabbey, for example, as when the day comes when someone – possibly sponsored by Sinn Féin, but it doesn’t matter – threatens to prosecute the council under equality legislation over their flaag policy. Those DUP councillors will be forced to vote to take the flag down or be held personally liable for the costs of the legal action. You can bet your bottom dollar that Alliance will ensure that the party’s support for the DUP councillor’s flag u-turn will be plastered all over the newspapers in the borough.

    to me it’s a bit like the Tories introducing the poll tax and saying the great unwashed are rioting why didn’t the Labour party lead on this with us and attempt to tame these beasts!

    I’m not sure how that analogy applies, unless you are trying to suggest that as with flags, the opposition supported the Poll Tax for many years and introduced it themselves, and then only decided to oppose it because the wrong party brought it in ?

  • tacapall

    DC has the penny not clicked yet –

    “An exasperated Cameron was yesterday forced to welcome a call from the 81-year-old Lord Lawson for Britain to quit the EU. The former chancellor said it was a bureaucratic monstrosity damaging the interests of the City of London”

    No one else matters.

  • Reader

    Neil: Yes, and that second post refers to the occassion at which a man was savagely beaten in broad daylight. Hospitalised he was. So DC is incorrect that any ‘art’ (as the creators referred to it) would not be removed.
    You are wrong. The man was beaten last year. The two links relate to separate displays this year.
    Perhaps this year the Black Mountain displays are protected as well as loyalist bonfire sites would be. Or perhaps nothing was going to happen anyway.

  • USA

    Mike Nesbitt cut a pathetic and lonely picture in that video.