Who was Britain’s most formidable enemy?

Well, at the moment 569 say it was Michael Collins… who apparently used to like to dress up as a priest, a nun and even wore false moustaches of all colours…

Oh and the Big Fellah was only 5.7 or 8 according to the British description of him at the time… James FitzJames (presumably he of ‘the Horse’) is langouring on a measly 18 votes (come on ye Jacobites, get yer finger out!)… Kemal Atatürk warrants a mere 48… And Napoleon has 179… So Mick has it, (until or unless the former colonies wake up…)

  • DT123

    No mention of William the Conqueror ,and him the last one to get an “away” win.

  • USA

    The Germans. WW 1 + 2
    The Americans. Revolutionary War
    The French – Been at it since the French won in 1066.
    The Spanish – Euro’s 2012

  • JR

    D123,

    What about William of Orange?

  • Drumlins Rock

    Ghandi ?

    or Alex Salmond.

  • Mick Fealty

    Names, names… Andrew Jackson barely gets any votes at all…

  • wild turkey

    1. Menachem Begin and Irgun
    2. Tony Blair

  • Drumlins Rock

    Andy was a scarey dude, and he divides my emotions as you can imagine! A real Ulster-Scot in toughness and temperment who was pretty ruthless on the battlefield, and successful… but he was fighting the British 🙁

    To be a real enemy of Britain you would have to threaten its very existance as an independant state, for that reason I nominate Queen “Bloody” Mary, who did enormous harm in many ways, but if she had of produced a child to Philip then England would have become a vasal of Spain.

  • Patrick Magee came close to killing one of Ireland’s greatest enemies and he was without doubt a tenacious enemy of the English establishment. Although history will place him in the camp of what might have been, inhabited by folk like Georg Elser, the lone carpenter who almost assassinated Hitler. (And no I am not directly comparing Thatcher and Adolf)

    If we are looking for Englishmen who were enemies of the English state, Tom Pain is a worthy choice.

    Although is we are judging on scale Napoleon takes some beating, but Gandhi must be right up there and we should not overlook the fact it was the men of 1916 and the Irish war of independence whose example inspired anti imperialists throughout the world to throw of the yoke of the British empire, so Dev must be included in any list.

  • Id go with George Washington.
    Or for sentimental reasons Patrick Sarsfield.

    No Mr Fealty……wrong FitzjamesHorse. Fitzjames Horse was a Franco-Irish Cavalry Regiment ….the origins of which are in 1691 when two regiments the Kings and Queens Cavalry were formed under Dominic Sheldon.
    As part of French re-organisation, the regiment became known as Sheldons Irish in 1698.
    In 1706 the rgiment became known as Nugents, the colonel-proprietor being Jean-Christophe de Tashmond-Limerick (de Nugent).
    In 1733 it became Fitzjames Horse under Charles Fitzjames (1733) & Jacques-Charles (1759) before disbandonment (1761).

    James Fitzjames was killed at Philippsburg (1734). His first wife was the widow of Patrick Sarsfield.

  • Alias

    The present Queen. She signed most of her country’s sovereignty away to the EU without the consent of its people.

  • Mark

    So the Queen makes the list along with Tony Blair , a former PM but when I suggest an Australian Media Mogul recently in the news , the name gets taken down …what’s that all about ?

  • Drumlins Rock

    so I see Mark, it seems some people even scare Mr Fealty!

  • Mark

    I dunno know about that DR ….

  • It could be argued that Collin’s actions led to the UK losing a sizeable proportion of its land – herr Hitler or napoleon didn’t manage that.

  • lamhdearg2

    smcgiff,

    WW2 left Britain broke, this took more land out of the empire than micky could have dreamed of, the ? is do we credit Hitler with this loss, or blame winston for not agreeing to share the spoils of imperialism with Nazi Germany.

  • tacapall

    Micheal Collins was truly Britain’s most formidable enemy he changed the rules of war and was the only enemy Britain ever had who was able to both fight them in their own backyard but outwit them by standing right beside them. Collins will never be matched in this world.

  • lamhdearg2

    “Collins will never be matched in this world.”
    was he not matched and outwitted by some of his own, or was that British dirty tricks.

  • tacapall

    Yeah lamhdearg2 he was betrayed by his own, just like John McMichael.

  • Drumlins Rock

    did Collins achieve Irish Independance? My understanding of history is the Liberals were going to force through home rule one way or another, and it would only be a matter of time before such an Irish Parliment would declare full independance, so what did he actually achieve? apart from murder and destruction that is.

    The Germans did seize the Channel islands, and blanket bombing is formidable to say the least, taken alongside the U-boat threat that had the country under seige, it was prob the greatest threat since the Armada, although FJH could maybe tell us the likely hood of pretender success at that time?

  • Harry Flashman

    The Germans in two world wars, while able to deliver appalling military losses on the British, posed no existential threat to the British Empire, the nation responsible for the single greatest blow against Britain and from whose attacks the Empire never recovered was of course the Japanese.

    Therefore I nominate the little known General Tomoyuki Yamashita for his humbling of the mightiest empire ever to have spanned the globe as Britain’s deadliest enemy commander.

  • Harry Flashman

    “the spoils of imperialism with Nazi Germany.”

    My above post gives the lie to the tiresome old trope put out by Irish nationalists that the British fought the Nazis over imperialism. If the British had entered the Second World War to fight for the preservation of the Empire they would have prioritized their efforts in precisely reverse order to the way they did.

    They would have had their finest infantry units, heaviest armour, bombers and fighters stationed in Burma and the Malay peninsula with the Ark Royal, Hood and other battleships in Singapore. The biggest threat to the Empire came undoubtedly from Japan.

    Next in priority would have been to fill the Mediterranean with hundreds of fast cruisers, destroyers and corvettes ready to rip to shreds any Italian convoys trying to leave their ports.

    Germany could have been given a stiff diplomatic note about the invasion of Poland and a quiet hint that Herr Hitler needn’t worry about his western borders if he wanted to put a bit of manners on Joe Stalin.

    The fact that the exact opposite occurred and Britain bankrupted herself and squandered her empire fighting Nazi Germany is all you need to know about the “imperialist warmonger” Churchill.

  • tacapall

    “The fact that the exact opposite occurred and Britain bankrupted herself and squandered her empire fighting Nazi Germany is all you need to know about the “imperialist warmonger” Churchill.”

    Came across this the other day about Churchill.

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=44631

    Amazing World War II Graffiti Uncovered

    The graffiti shows a wartime soldier turning his back on Churchill while muttering:
    “hmmm you warmonger Churchill” and underneath the words: ” Drink and Smoke while we die”, while over Churchill’s head are the words: ” You stinkweed churchill you c…

  • Drumlins Rock

    So there was a pro Nazi grafitti artist in England during the war, my image of Churchill has been shattered! Actually the fact your using Nazi propaganda to make a point Tacapall says more about you than it does Churchill.

    Hitler I believed offered to divide up much of the world with Britain if they stayed out of the war, not an idle offer if French North Africa was included, and he might have been able to persuade Japan to draw a line with Britain in SE Asia, a tempting offer to some prob at the time.

  • Mark

    Jesus Tacapall , I was eating a bacon roll when I clicked on that Churchill incontinent link ..

  • Harry Flashman

    Tapacall, an anti-semitic, pro-Nazi website might not be the best choice of evidence to use against Churchill, it rather defeats the point.

    Nazis hated Chuchill, Churchill hated Nazis, we get it already and it kinda makes us think highly of Churchill as a result.

  • tacapall

    Harry whatever your views on the website the graffiti was still found and it sums the man up right, all wars are fought by using the lives of the less well off to keep the rich as they are or to make them richer. What happened to Germany’s colonies anyway after those wars ?

    “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschilds wife

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USGSOViaulc&feature=player_embedded

    Sorry Mark.

  • Mark

    No problem T.

  • Reader

    tacapall: Harry whatever your views on the website the graffiti was still found and it sums the man up right,
    Are you including the Star of David armband as part of that summary of Churchill? I suspect the graffiti artist really wasn’t your favourite sort of Englishman, but, hey, your enemy’s enemy is your friend, right?

  • Harry Flashman

    “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschilds wife

    Ah right, gotcha Tapacall, it’s all the fault of those damn Joooooz that we have wars. Poor wee Germans hadn’t a hope against those sneaky sheenies eh?

    You know what Tapacall, I don’t care to debate this issue any further with you. Shove your filthy anti-semitism up your Nazi-loving arse.

  • tacapall

    Very undignified of you old chap I never mentioned Joooooz in any of my posts you did, I only referenced one family dynasty who have fronted the majority of wars around the world. Who did finance the rise of Hitler and the Nazi’s during WW2, a quick google will show you.

  • Drumlins Rock

    thanks for revealing your true colours tacapall.

    pretty disgusting.

  • tacapall

    DR. The truth will set you free. Do you think them rebels in Syria will take a bit of time off killing and torturing all around them to set up a new central bank of Syria, just like they did in Libya.

  • lamhdearg2

    good show on bbc2 last night, how god made the English i think it was called, worth watching on catch up or iplayer or whatever.