“We would end up like West Pakistan-” Empey on the nightmare of Scottish Independence

The Scottish Independence debate has clearly unnerved our local unionist political leaders in recent days, leading to at times sensational and contradictory messages from the political elite (past and present.) But Reg Empey’s latest missive, delivered in the House of Lords, warrants special mention.

From the BBC Report:

The former Ulster Unionist Party leader said Northern Ireland had “spent decades overcoming nationalist terrorism and we gradually after years and years and years managed to settle down our community”.

“I don’t wish to exaggerate, but if the Scottish nationalists were to succeed it could possibly reignite the difficulties we have just managed to overcome,” he said.

“I do not say that lightly.”

He told peers said that if Scotland broke away from the UK, people in Northern Ireland would have “a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us”.

We would end up like West Pakistan,” he said. (my italics)

“We are all hewn from the same rock.

“Just imagine the situation we would be placed in.”

Indeed, Reg.

A truly appalling vista……

  • Dec

    ‘We would end up like West Pakistan’

    Much like his haircut, Reg’s sense of geography appears to be firmly rooted in the early 1970s.

  • Limerick

    The good news for Reg is that it isn’t going to happen.

  • cynic2

    Twaddle ….but enlightening twaddle in that is shows the mindset of the UUP

  • Reg Empty is still hankering after the great days of Norn Iron where themmuns were kept in their place and Norn Iron was a protestant country. He is still in 1967.

  • USA

    Reg is out to lunch on this one.
    He talks of spending years overcoming “nationalist terrorism”, yet he fails to mention Unionist terrorism (UDA, UVF, LVF, TARA, Third Force, Ulster Clubs, Red Hand Commandos, etc). Also, he fails to mention the terrorist actions of the state, carried out by the Paratroop regiment, E4A, RUC, UDR, Special Branch etc. The judiciary also has a lot to answer for.

    He also states: “but if the Scottish nationalists were to succeed it could possibly reignite the difficulties we have just managed to overcome”

    Sorry Reg but that is not the way democracy works. Why should the Scots be denied independence because it does not suit some people in “NI” ?

    Finally, for Reg to refer to Scotland and ROI as “foreign” countries is plain daft. Just shows how petty and out of touch he is. Totally crazy talk altogether.

  • Alias

    “Just shows how petty and out of touch he is.”

    He probably even thinks that Ireland has an ambassador to the UK and that the UK has an ambassador to Ireland!

  • Its unionist paranoia………and as such………a very welcome contribution and……a feeling that should be encouraged.
    I dont quite get his point about a foreign country being on one side and another foreign country on the other side.

    Bearing in mind that Norn Iron is not actually going to move, then nothing changes “geographically”. In fact surely most countries have a foreign country on at least two sides…..USA has Canada and Mexico……..and they arent paranoid…….well I suppose they are………but Switzerland is bordered by several nations and they are doing ok.

    The map of the world in Regs office must be one of those when the World wasa quarter red………West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Gilbert & Ellice Islands, Nyassaland, Gold Coast……still if Scotland leaves the Union, people can finda spiritual home in Southern Rhodesia……well no they cannot.
    Maybe the globe in Regs office is flat.

    The real fear for Reg is that if the Scots want to emphasise their differences from “UK” then it will cause a rethink in “Ulster-Scots”. After all for nearly two decades they have been telling us that they are an “ethnic group”. Do “Ulster Unionists” line up with the UK or their ain folk.

    The Referendum ………is the Trojan Horse inside the Gates of the United Kingdom. Pushing thru Scottish Devolution was actually much more dangerous than the Good Friday Agreement.Unionists in England really took their eye off the ball.

    The Good Friday Agreement merely stalled the ball. Surely everyone knew that. It might have been sold as both stepping stones to a United Ireland and a series of obstacles.
    But did Reg really believe it was both.
    Surely he knew that at some point circumstances would change….one way or the other……..Catholics becoming unionists was at least as unlikely as Protestants becoming nationalists.

    While we all now can sit around being nice to nationalists and unionists..indeed its our responsibility to be civilised……..it should not blind us to the fact that the object of unionism to facilitate nationalists. Or vice versa.
    The object of the exercise is to destroy the other philosophy. Nicely.

    Demographic Changes, Economic Circumstances can all influence the Future…..one way or the other. Our children will make the choices rather than us. Surely we all knew that. And our role was merely to provide the field uncluttered by corpses……so that they could make the choice.
    And Scotland leaving the UK is a definite game changer. And even the possibility is a game changer.
    Therefore it needs to be exploited by nationalists. “The UKs difficulty is Irelands opportunity”.

    Unionism………whether in Norn Iron, Scotland, Wales or England is a perfectly normal aspiration. As is nationalism.
    And it would be churlish for me to suggest that the future of the UK is a matter for only the Scots. And churlish of “unionists” to suggest that nationalist supporters of Scotland in England, Wales and Norn Iron have no legitimate voice in the debate.

    This is a potential marriage break up and really no side in a marriage dispute can veto the divorce. Yes difficult issues over assets and liabilities and there is no workable pre-nup…………
    Of course its the children who suffer. The two boys in the boys bedroom marked Norn Iron are listening to Daddy and Mammy having a row but Patrick has always been a Mammys boy and William has always been a Daddys boy.

    In the girls bedroom the girls are more quiet. We dont know what they are really thinking.

    Quite properly unionists politicians, newspapers, trade unions, financial institutions in England will be involved in the Debate. Some of the arguments they present will be reasonable and pragmatic……..but some will be counter-productive and hysterical.
    Right and proper that unionists in Norn Iron get involved in the Debate too…….and the kith and kin card is certainly a card worth playing.

    Interesting times.

  • john

    Sorry not being picky but would we not be more like East Pakistan the smaller poorer cousin – Im pretty sure thats what he meant. Either way its a daft statement

  • aquifer

    Nuclear armed, run by religious extremists, economically depressed, sexist, hankering way back to times when they dominated the subcontinent. Could be West Pakistan all right.

  • Harry Flashman

    Yeah, East Pakistan is what he meant, there is no such place as West Pakistan.

    His point is valid though, I’m not sure why everyone’s attacking him.

    Northern Ireland would be in a geographically anomalous position not an insurmountable one of course if the main body of the country is happy to remain united, a la Alaska, but with Scotland gone is anyone seriously doubting that the entire constitutional make-up of the remaining UK, including Wales, would be subject to huge change?

    Does anyone seriously believe that the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland would be considered as acceptable to the English?

    Ulstradesh here we come.

  • I think Reg was just stating Norn Iron is to the west of Scotland.
    But surely a nuclear armed nation run by religious fanatics, sexist, economically depressed and hankering after its former dominace is……the USA.

  • Mick Fealty

    Reg is retired from the game, and it shows.

  • Harry Flashman

    I don’t think he is saying that Northern Ireland would be a western version of Pakistan but that he is referring to the former state of East Pakistan, that was separated from the rest of Pakistan by a thousand mile wide chunk of India.

    It was an unsustainable position and eventually East Pakistan broke away and became Bangladesh. In that way his analogy makes perfect sense and I fail to see why everyone else thinks it’s so idiotic.

  • Mick Fealty

    Well, he got it wrong, for a start. In more than one way. I know a few unionists who want more local agency than they currently have. I would also underline the fact that Reg is no longer in politics. the game is way more complex than he’s trying to project. Ah well, at least the smell of unionist paranoia will keep FJH happy in the morning!

  • Comrade Stalin

    The funny thing is that Reg is essentially arguing that we should allow our major political decisions to be informed by whether or not there is a threat of violence, irrespective of whether or not there is a democratic vote on the issue at hand. This is an interesting insight into the way some unionists will react in the event of a border poll over here.

    The East Pakistan notion is, of course, ridiculous; there may be geographical comparisons but I don’t see the political comparisons. NI will not be cut off from its “hinterland” by two hostile states. The ferries and flights will still run between Scotland and NI, and I’m sure the common travel zone will continue to exist, much as it does with the RoI. I am not yet sure how workable it will be for Scotland to adopt a currency other than sterling, too.

  • Harry Flashman

    Do you really believe that the English, for that is who we’d be talking about rather than the “British”, would simply adopt a business as usual attitude to NI after Scottish independence?

    I don’t believe so, I think Scottish independence would be a massive game changer for Northern Ireland’s status, I cannot imagine England choosing to hold on to an anomalous piece of territory like Northern Ireland on its current terms. Empey is absolutely correct, Scottish independence would be chance for England to start with a tabla rasa and create an entirely new nation, I very much doubt that they’d envisage Northern Ireland as part of the new English future.

    The English are nice people, they’re not that nice and they certainly aren’t stupid.

    As regards the impossibility of Scotland leaving sterling, the Irish Republic achieved it very easily in 1979.

  • Harry Flashman is right. There wasnt much idiotic in the basic analysis. Except of course that he lets the likes of me smell the paranoia (as Mr Fealty puts it).
    To some extent Reg will never be flavour of the month with the chattering classes so its a pity that hes ridiculed for being at heart a 1970s politician in 2012.
    That doesnt mean that he should be silenced just because the example he gives is a bit strained.

    At heart Reg is highlighting the dilemna of “unionism” and “nationalism”……which neither fully recognises.
    Norn Iron or indeed Ireland is too distant from Britain to be ever fully integrated (and I dont just mean politically). Thats an unfortunate fact for a unionist.
    And Ireland is too close to Britain to be ever fully without a degree of influence that is a tad uncomfortable for a nationalist like myself.

    Therefore Reg has to invent connexions……or over-state connexions and the likes of me has to invent or overstate the degree of differences.
    An independent Scotland will make the overstating of connexions difficult and help the likes of me.

    It is swings and roundabouts and we all have our good and bad days….no doubt theres a whiff of paranoia when at the UK Cityof Culture nonsense.
    My crumb of comfort it will only last a year and Scotland could be independent fora very long time.

  • Mick Fealty

    Harry,

    “I cannot imagine England choosing to hold on to an anomalous piece of territory like Northern Ireland on its current terms”…

    There’s that phantasm again. Scottish independence, is a highly moveable feast, much as a united Ireland would be. There’s a dozen ways in which Scotland will not become ‘foreign’, whatever the settlement. Some of them laid out by commenters above.

    Salmond himself is talking about a social union, partly for tactical reasons, but partly because close relations with England will be a critical part of the deal. Indeed you can see that in some ways, the relationship with between the two has fallen into neglect and disrepair over the last fifty years at least.

  • Harry Flashman

    OK Mick, I personally don’t believe there will be Scottish independence or even anything comparable in the near future. However I was positing the theory on Empey’s position of an actual, “foreign” if you will, independent Scotland.

    You’re right, supermax-devolution won’t cause NI any constitutional problems.

  • Limerick

    Finally, for Reg to refer to Scotland and ROI as “foreign” countries is plain daft. Just shows how petty and out of touch he is. Totally crazy talk altogether.

    USA,

    You’ve hit the nail on the head. England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales all combine to form the British Isles. For centuries there were wars and raids between the different tribes and alliances which co-existed on these islands eventually however we combined and formed a United Kingdom which was actually quite influential within the world.

    Unfortunately there have always been a minority of nationalist dreamers who hankered back to some mystical, mythical past which didn’t really exist. In Ireland this manifested itself in brutal violence which turned neighbour against neighbour and in the south turned a prosperous part of the UK into an economic basket case. (A situation which briefly changed due to some serious luck in gambling on housing etc, but which has now reverted to form)

    In Scotland a handful of lunatics do actually propose violence, but they have zero support. It also needs to be remembered that Salmond’s vision of an independent Scotland also has minority support. This is because the majority of people in Scotland can go and watch Braveheart without rocking themselves into a murderous English hating frenzy a la certain sections of Irish society.

    They also realise that striking out for independence would be a huge step into the unknown which could have catastrophic economic consequences which would not be saved by the long suffering English taxpayer. If the Spanish are to be believed then the EU won’t be there to bail them out either.

    The main point though is that it would be an absolutely retrograde step. Centuries of blood and treasure, which was expended on uniting the Kingdom, would have been squandered for no good purpose. A constituent part of one of the most important nations on this earth would become another Mickey Mouse backwater just like the ROI. Indeed if the Scottish want to know what independence would look like then that is where they should look. At a country which has had to hand over its economic policies to the French and Germans.

    These are just some of the reasons why I don’t think there will be Scottish independence, though there are many more.

    It is also quite fun watching Irish nationalists virtually slavering at the thought of unionist paranoia when ultimately it is they who face disappointment when nothing comes of this btw.

    Now let the pointless whataboutery begin.

  • John Ó Néill

    “a foreign country on one side of us and a foreign country on the other side of us”.

    So … not that big on the whole Ulster Scots thing then, Reg?

    *cough* *cough*

  • JR

    If England keep the Faukland’s they will keep NI so long as the majority vote for it.

    It’s hard to believe reading those coments he used to lead the less extreme Unionist party.

  • Ah penguins in the Malvinas, monkeys in Gibraltar and……………whatever in Norn Iron.
    “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone”
    “look on my works ye mighty and despair”

  • dwatch

    “He probably even thinks that Ireland has an ambassador to the UK and that the UK has an ambassador to Ireland!”

    The new British Ambassador, Julian King presented his Credentials to the President at Áras an Uachtaráin today.
    http://britishembassyinireland.fco.gov.uk/content/en/article/new-hma-09-09

    THE new Irish ambassador to the UK is spending five days in the Isle of Man promoting the business and cultural links between the two jurisdictions.
    http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/irish_ambassador_strengthens_links_with_isle_of_man_1_1774686

  • Mick Fealty

    I notice an absence of comment on the Nairn thread which poses awkward questions for nationalists (we’ve only one comment there and that from a Unionist commentator).

  • Two comments now. One each.

  • Commentator

    I and many people I have spoken to, find it offensive that ‘Sir Reg’ has continually spoken of ‘nationalist terrorism’, even after Stephen Nolan gave him a number of chances this morning to generalize his comments to include loyalists, he did not and continued to speak only of nationalists.

    Nevertheless, it seems that if the union was in threat it would be N.I. and Scottish loyalists who would be provoked into terrorist activity – what the hell has Scottish independence got to do with the nationalist community in northern ireland?

    Its also curious that he has specifically decided to continually use the term ‘nationalist’ in relation to terrorism as we all know it is an unwritten rule in NI to use ‘nationalist’ when referring to those who rejected violence.

    Its relevant is that in the coming decades ‘nationalists’ in northern ireland will constitute the majority of the population and unionism and in particular the Ulster Unionists continue to dig holes for themselves which will be quite difficult to climb out of in the near future.

    Reg is a bitter has been who is crying out for attention and relevance. He is certainly getting the attention but his complete irrelevance is like watching a slow motion car crash. The Ulster Unionist party is an embarrassment.

  • galloglaigh

    Unionism – the sectarian gift that keeps on giving!

  • USA

    Alias,
    The ROI and Scotland are not “foreign” countries. There is a long standing relationship between Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. These relationships, shared history and shared future run North / South – East / West. Your little comment just reflects your “us and themmuns” approach which gets us all nowhere. Same goes for Empey. Scotland, Ireland, England, and Wales all enjoy extensive trade links, cultural links, political and social links. One might even call it a “special relationship”.

    Limerick,
    I read your history of the “British Isles” above. Your “contribution” is so influenced by your personal politics that you make Newt Gengrich look like a professional historian.

    All,
    To clarify, when I spoke of “state terrorism” above, I was only using the example to highlight the weakness in Reg Empy’s statements. I did not mean to imply that the RUC etc were wholly bad. While agents of the state did commit many crimes, including many murders, I have to believe that there was equally a larger body of men and women whose motivations and conduct were of the highest order.

    Unfortunately the overtly Unionist ethos and organizational culture of the locally recruited forces only served to make the job harder. This was a legacy of the Orange State and prevailing attitudes throughout the 70’s, 80’s etc.

    Back on topic,
    Hopefully Reg has little support in the Unionist community for this type of scare mongering. It really is an unhelpful and ill advised commentary.

  • Its certainly scare-mongering but I think its legitimate scare-mongering. After all…..its politics.Its NOT Academic.

    The actual Referendum is some years ahead…….and all the posturing, sham fight, point scoring wont change the fact that the main event will be between Nationalism and Unionism.
    In Norn Iron not only do we have a legitimate interest, we also love our proxy wars whether its Israel-Palestine or Rangers-Celtic. We are already pre-disposed to support a side.

    No amount of logic before a football match which says that (say) Barcelona are a better team than Crusaders would stop the fans of the latter from turning up at Seaview to cheer on their team. In fact they would cheer louder.
    The argument is settled by the scoreline.

    In politics the scoreline is the Votes.
    The most recent Referendum we had was in May 2011. That Yes/No thing were we all voted NO….despite all the logic presented by the Great and the Good. In fact my main reason for voting No was to spite the Great and the Good.

    In academic terms I was wrong. All the logic was on the Yes side.
    In political/electoral terms I was a right.
    And thats the point that keeps being missed in this Scotland thing.
    Its not “Should Scotland be Independent……Discuss” Its “Should Scotland be independent…….Vote”

    Most logical people might well be persuaded by Politics (you can trust politicians after all) Media (you can trust them after all), Economists (you can trust them too) not to mention Bankers.
    Now Im not being cynical here……..most of the intellectual argument will be on one side…….and in itself being anti-intellectual is nothing of which to be proud…

    but this is not about Logic….or the “intellectual” weighing up of facts. Its at least in part about Emotion.
    Now before we get prissy about condemning people for voting emotionally rather than for intellectual arguments which means their wallet……..we would have to say that Logic rather than Principle should determine every decision we make.
    Now of course we all have a different set of principles and self interest…….but do we want every decision in the ballot box to be an expression of logic.

    Scare mongering about economics will be a negative tactic of unionists in the Scotland Referendum.
    Anglophobia will be a negative tactic of nationalists.
    And those factors will be as legitimate as the Academic argument.
    Whats the point of an Academic decision by a panel of experts?

  • Just to make it clear…..I believe voters should be “informed voters”………but merely expecting them to vote ON the basis of the information is naive.

  • Alias

    USA, you’re conflating being familiarity with the legal construct of being foreign. Ireland and the UK are foreign countries. No amount of silly post-GFA semantics and creative ambiguity will alter than constitutional reality.

    It is true, however, that the UK gained sovereignty over vital political, cultural and economic institutions of the Irish state in a treaty between the two states, comprising only the second supranational authority to exist within the EU (with the other being the EU), so the constitutional reality of Irish independence from the UK has been diminished but not to the point where you would persuade the courts that Mr Adams’s brother was extradited to a foreign state.

    Harry is right that the UK will change as a result of Scotland’s nationalism. The better option for the Tories is to pre-empt the change and go for a federation of autonomous nations. As Mr Hume was fond of pointing out, nationalism would be neutered when the nations of the EU were stripped of sovereign rights. Let them all have their little sham parliments if it makes them better about the arrangement…

  • Alias

    Typo: “…but not to the point where you would persuade the courts that Mr Adams’ brother wasn’t extradited to a foreign state.”

  • Alias

    One other point, the UK is now a failed political entity. Why? Because its constituent nations no longer place their shared British nationalism ahead of their constituent nationalism (now emergent) in their scale of allegience. British nationalism comes under stress when 10% – 15% of a constituent nation reject it but begins to fail when 20% of a constituent nation reject it. When it gets above 30%, it has failed.

  • Alias,

    Did you just make those percentages up?

  • USA

    Alias wrote:
    “the UK gained sovereignty over vital political, cultural and economic institutions of the Irish state” Rubbish !!!

    “the UK is now a failed political entity” Rubbish !!!!

    The GFA was a negotiated agreement between multiple stakeholders, that to a large extent brought an end to a long running conflict. Your interpretation of this agreement seems bizarre to say the least. You then go on to pull percentage figures out of the sky…..I have work to do, your rantings are not really worth any more of my time.

  • Alias

    At what point do you think a political arrangement fails? When 99% of the population oppose it?

  • Alias

    USA, I’m sorry that you are ignorant about what a treaty and a supranational authority is, but it’s probably best that you totter off and do some work….

  • Alias,

    I don’t know. Can you cite the study from which those numbers came? If not, then you don’t know either.

  • Alias

    Do you need a study to to tell you that a state requires the support of its citizens? I don’t. I’d be surprised if you did too. But then again, if you assert that you are disabled in that way, then I accept that without prejudice.

  • cynic2

    “Reg is retired from the game” ……………… was he ever at it?

  • cynic2

    Having been led into the warm embrace of the Mother Country Nationalists are now grasping at straws and dreaming of a United Ireland by proxy.

    There are two problems

    1 Scotland wont vote for independence

    2 Even if it did it would solve the nationalist problem of 900000 Prod Unionists

  • USA

    Cynic2 wrote:
    “Having been led into the warm embrace of the Mother Country Nationalists are now grasping at straws and dreaming of a United Ireland by proxy”

    What utter nonsense. No one is talking about “a United Ireland by proxy”. It was Reg Empy who raised the temperature guage by saying Scottish independence would “reignite the difficulties” and spoke liberally of “nationalist terrorism”.

    Try and stick to the topic dude. If anyone on here is using a topic to fight a proxy war it seems to be Cynic2 and Alias.

    Alias wrote:
    At what point do you think a political arrangement fails?

    Do you need a study to to tell you that a state requires the support of its citizens? I don’t.

    Yeah Alias, don’t let silly little things like facts get in the way of your fairytale. Newsflash – the vast majority of people voted in favour of the GFA and have consistently voted for pro GFA parties ever since. Breaking News The Scots have a democratic right to vote on their position within or without the “Union”. This is not rocket science, and there not an anti Unionist conspiracy lurking under every rock.

    And what do we do with “900,000 Prod Unionists”? I would assume people will continue to work along side them, enjoy social events with them, talk to them in the park, at the shops, on the bus etc….Why do you refer to them as a “problem” anyway? Says more about you and your attitude to life than any constitutional / political arrangement the Scots may vote on.

  • Republic of Connaught

    Reggie boy is one of them old school politicians from the north who can’t handle the modern political changes occurring in Britain and Ireland. They are an older generation who should just retire, keep quiet, and let the younger generation make up their own minds on the future.

    As for a united Ireland occurring as a result of Scottish independence, it clearly won’t happen immediately. But what Cynic 2 and fellow Unionists need to accept is that post Scottish independence England’s taxpayers will eventually decide not to pay billions for Ireland’s partition anymore. Why should they? Because of threats from Johnny Adair types waving defunct Union Jacks in Belfast? Ergo a 32 county Irish political agreement is inevitable. How autonomous the 6 counties will be is the question at that point.

    Devo-max for Scotland, which is what they will vote for if they can, is merely prolonging the inevitable until the Scots have the confidence to be totally independent. If they vote devo-max they want out of the UK, just not at the moment.

  • Alias

    USA, are you trying to troll me? Not that I mind either way, but at least it would provide an easy explanation for your odd banter.

    I think you’re a bit confused about the difference between an opinion and a fact. Andrew, for example, has asserted that he does not know if the UK could be deemed to be a successful or a failed entity if 99% of its citizens did not support it. This requires an opinion, since the fact can only be extablished if the particular circumstances exist. If it fair enough if he or you requires a fact to determine what most could accurately determine with an opinion, but I am not qualified to diagnose that odd mentality.

    Also, what has popular support for the GFA got to do with whether or not Ireland is a foreign country to the UK? You are rambling widely, and this confirms my opinion that you are trolling. That is not a fact, of course, since there is no study that I am aware of about whether Mr USA is trolling Mr Alias or not…

    I would think that the clue to the status of the UK and Ireland as sovereign states is in the words ‘treaty’ and ‘supranational’ – unless, of course, treaties can be made between regions rather than states. Why don’t you look it up on Wiki and let us know?

  • “But Reg Empey’s latest missive, delivered in the House of Lords, warrants special mention.”

    Chris, surely the whole exchange in the Lords is worthy of a link: Part A and Part B on Jan 26. Can we look forward to this name on a future ballot paper: Chris Aardvark-Donnelly, as a means of topping the list? [ complements of Reg ;)]

    For those who think that Reg is out to grass that ‘theyworkforyou’ website indicates that he is one of the busier members of that august body. ‘Foreign’ in Reg lingo appears to refer to be without the state ie in a different state. ‘West Pakistan’ is a bit of a puzzle …

    Presumably ‘reignite the difficulties’ is a reference to the Republican dissidents’s ongoing struggle being encouraged by SNP constitutional success set in the context of a decade of emotional anniversaries.

    Here are a few quotes that are unlikely to produce nightmares, not even amongst those who transform molehills into mountains:

    A lot of comment has been made about the First Minister personally. I think we should get away from that and forget about the individual. We are talking about the future of more than 60 million of us. We are literally all in this together in every sense. ..

    .. let us concentrate on selling the positive case that there is for the United Kingdom and not trying to put people down by saying, “If you do not remain part of the United Kingdom, you will be eating grass”. That is not an argument that we have to deploy.

    For anyone still hiding under the duvet, you can come out now ..

  • USA

    Alias,
    Yawn.

  • smcs

    So the political elite stir it again as some members did in 1969/70 when their snowballs were foolishly ‘ fired ‘ by Loyalists who were driven to panic that they were about to lose all.
    Will Reg and his UUP friends be out there when the chips are down and the UK consortium goes belly up.
    Somehow I don’t think so when you can still wave the flag sit back in suburbia, and have others ‘ fire ‘ the snowballs!!
    Hopefully, no one will be so foolish this time, and saviour the fur coat brigade sample the penal system.
    I don’t think so!!

    We have babies dying, redundancies daily, and we all should be stressed out over the Scottish people deciding their own future democratically.
    I don’t think so!!

  • USA

    smcs worte:
    We have babies dying, redundancies daily, and we all should be stressed out over the Scottish people deciding their own future democratically.
    I don’t think so!!

    Well said sir!!!!!!

  • USA

    or madam!!!!!

  • Andrew, for example, has asserted that he does not know if the UK could be deemed to be a successful or a failed entity if 99% of its citizens did not support it.

    Alias, I would greatly appreciate it if you did not put words into my mouth. You pulled numbers out of thin air and I called you on it. Let it rest.

  • Sound Bloke

    Technical problem. I can only see comment 51. Where are the other 50?