Adams Proposes McGuinness to be Sinn Féin Candidate for Áras

Which would seem to guarantee that the current Northern Ireland deputy First Minister, Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness, MP, MLA, will be the party’s candidate in the Irish Presidential election.  I have to say that I didn’t believe the rumours, but RTÉ are quoting the Sinn Féin president, and Louth TD, Gerry Adams

“This is a time of great challenge for all the people of Ireland. We need positive but authentic leadership. It will be a great honour for me to propose Martin McGuinness to contest this election on a broad, republican, citizen-centred platform,” said Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams this evening.

“I believe that this election will give Martin the platform to continue the work which he has led in the North and in the peace process and to put it on a national footing.”

As for the position of NI deputy First Minister…  RTÉ again

It is likely that he will step aside from his position as deputy first minister at Stormont and the party will appoint a deputy.

Whether or not he returns to Stormont will be decided by the election result.

“I’m just stepping outside, I may be some time…”?

But what about his position as Member of [UK] Parliament?

Update  It looks like the only restrictions on being a candidate are those on achieving nomination.

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  • keano10

    Now that the initial surprise of this has began to sink in, we may need to let the dust settle and perhaps consider the wider implications. There is no doubt that SF strategists will have debated the merits of such an audacious move very intensely in the past few weeks. And yes, there is an element of risk here. McGuinness has become a hugely influential figure at Stormont, perhaps even recognised as the De Facto First Minister. His leadership skills have been evident to many beyond these shores. Taking him out of that position is a big risk, but clearly SF see the potential gains as being far reaching. It is so similar in many ways to the final weeks before they finally usurped the SDLP’s role as the largest Nationalist party in the North.

    This time I believe the real target is Fianna Fail. Sinn Fein can sense that FF remain in a shambolic state and this is an opportunity to tap in to a major slice of FF’s remaining support base. Whether or not McGuinness actually wins, SF can still attract a larger vote here than in any election for many decades. The party will still win regardless. Prepare yourselves for perhaps the biggest electoral push ever conducted by SF in the South. I doubt that a door will ve left uncanvassed across large parts of the country. Sinn Fein are going to throw the kitchen sink at this one.

    This has the potential to be a truly ground breaking moment for them in Irish Politics. Can they pull it off? I doubt it will be for lack of effort.

  • Alias

    “This time I believe the real target is Fianna Fail.”

    Got it in one. It is an attempt to mark in the public mind the political metamorphosis of the Shinners into the new Fianna Fail by seeking to claim the voters previously loyal to the old Fianna Fail.

    They haven’t a hope of winning for reasons outlined in my deleted post and which will become apparant during the campaign, and so their bid to become a respectable establishment party in Ireland vis such cute-hoorism will badly backfire on them.

  • al

    Paddypower have Marty at 9/2. For those who don’t frequent the bookies a £10 bet will get you £55. Can’t see it happening myself. Perhaps Gerry is pushing Marty in to test the waters before going for it himself next time around?

  • Charminator

    Limerick

    “He [Martin McGuinness] was a regualr and welcome visitor to those locations [White House] because the people ensconced therein were trying very hard to wean him away from his terrorist ways. It wasn’t because they found him to be great company, or because they admired his past.”

    I’m assuming that there’s a source somewhere to support the conclusion that “it wasn’t because they found him to be great company”. Given the warm relationship McGuiness developed with Paisley, his personal character or charm is something that’s usually recognised fairly broadly.

    I’m also a little taken aback by such broad, sweeping statements with seemingly no apparent basis for it. I dare say we cannot know what the presidents “ensconed” in the White House thought, much less authoritatively describe their perspective of McGuinness as nothing more than trying to “wean him away from his terrorist ways”.

  • Jimmy Sands

    No decision in recent years demonstrates as much as this how completely out of touch SF is with the Republic. The idea that we would even consider a mass murderer as Head of State is so deeply insulting it is hard to know where to begin.

  • I don’t have a clue as to how this will work out, but who, 10 years ago, would have considered that MMG would end up as DFM?

  • Munsterview

    Steady up Alias ! Long campaign to go, even you do not have an inexhaustible supply of invective. take it easy, ration it out a bit. Every Volunteer learns to keep a few rounds in reserve.

    Of course you do not have to take my advice and probably will not but in the last week or two of the campaign things can be fairly strenuous. The Shinners will be need a laugh and our victory will not be as sweet if your rantings are missing from slugger.

    I know that moderation is an alien concept to you when criticizing Republicans but try it. I would have though that you would have been a bit more sagacious and sanguine at the thought of an ex-gunman in Governance. McGuniess whatever of his past is a peacemaker these days.

    Incidently could we revert a moment to your other Alias, alia, your Israeli Citizenship and passport ? Perhaps you can find your Israeli hat there among all the many others you wear from time to time and pop it on for a moment ?

    As an Israeli Citizen are you not accustomed to a Governance where it is a pre-requisite for high office to have Ministers who are of a First World society, pledged to murder, mayhem and armed conflict against their next door neighbor Third World society?

    Martin is seeking office committed to peace : all your Israeli candidates for high Office must be committed to war !

    Could I respectfully suggest that you make it clear as to whether you are in your Israeli or Irish citizenship mode when condemning violence as I can only refer to you as a rank hypocrite without ‘getting carded’ if you are condemning violence for political ends when in your Israeli mode !

    Cannot do that if you are wearing your Irish hat but then again you know that so it is from this mode your malodorous anti-Republican bile will continue ?

  • Just a thought. Should the DUP lobby the Irish Government to allow people in N.I. to vote in the Presidential election?

  • I have got over the shock!

    Whatever anybody says about Sinn Fein, you have to admire their ability to plan and execute their best political strategy. That is a quality that the UUP and the SDLP could do with.

    I agree with the suggestion in earlier comments that Fianna Fail is on their menu. McGuinness is unlikely, in my view, to win the election but what really matters is that they get a bigger vote share than Fianna Fail. I am not sure, however, that getting a bigger poll share in the Presidential race will translate into the same thing happening at the next Irish general elction. I think that depends upon party unity within Fianna Fail.

    Sinn Fein’s next hope will be that they bag enough defections by Fianna Fail TDs. I dont know enough about the Fianna Fail TDs to make a guess at what might happen but if they can achieve that, then the generational change in Irish politics could be near enough complete.

  • MV,

    I think you have lost the run of yourself in your last comment. What on earth has Alias’ citizenship got to do with this thread?

  • Mick Fealty

    Best strategy, or the kitchen sink?

  • Mick Fealty

    MV,

    Back off!

    Alias,

    Can you watch what you saying. I’m having to pull some good analysis off because you are consistent playing the man over the ball!

  • @Jimmy Sands, it worked for De Valera !

  • Superb political move once again by Sinn Fein, they have consistently thought out of the box and regardless of the outcome of the election, once again they have raised their profile to a new level. Excellent work by the party strategists.

  • lover not a fighter

    From being a former leader of the IRA to the President.

    Yes I can believe it can happen. Martin McGuinness has been one of the most important cogs in the wheel that has brought (largely !) peace to Ireland. He stands head and shoulders above the likes of Blair, Ahern, Tremble, Paisley (with some of them maybe not that difficult).

    His metamorphosis from his past to where he stands today is a remarkable journey. McGuinness is as near to Michael Collins as we have had in Ireland since Collins.

  • Marty certainluyy has the element of surprise in this move. There are a couple of reasons why he might pull it off, one; that he’s someone whom nobody could accuse of being a career politician, and southern voters will note that the last northerner at the Aras did a good job, and …..two; that He’s not tainted as their own politicians are, post Celtic Tiger. The betting will be interesting.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Jimmy:

    The idea that we would even consider a mass murderer as Head of State is so deeply insulting it is hard to know where to begin.

    If the Americans can do it, why can’t the Irish ?

  • All this talk of an ex-terrorist becoming a head of state.

    When you take the invective, emotion and ‘man playing’ out of the discussion, you can actually have an interesting disuccion on the subject.

    There are precedents elsewhere but they do not exactly fit the McGuinnes situation. Robert Mugabe was a terrorist before Rhodesia became Zimbabwe. Menachem Begin was a terrorist in 1940 before Palestine became Israel. Tito became president of Yugoslavia after leading the resistance in the war.

    None of those situations fit the bill because the IRA did not have majority moral support throughout the “troubles.” Some commenters will make the comparison with Eamon De Valera. Supporters of McGuinness will say he is his genuine successor whilst others will argue the exact opposite.

    This campaign is set force the Irish into historical ‘naval gazing’ as they have never seen before. In fact, the Irish public are in for a litany of dredged up horror stories as campaigners either try to distinguish the history of the birth of the Irish state from the PIRA campaign or liken it to that campaign.

  • Alias

    MV, I can see that you’re a bit of an insomniac, but maybe those imaginary sheep you count would stay awake long enough to do their job if you stopped talking to them? I’ll wager a fiver that even your dog tells you to shup up…

    Seymour Major, the last paragrapgh is correct. There will be denials that the Shinners were a sectarian murder gang and that their candidate is, therefore, not a sectarian murderer. Apparantly, it is okay to murder people just as long as you don’t have a sectarian motive for doing so.

    The IRA acted to assert a right to national self-determination by militant means in the absence of alternative means, but terminated their campaign once Irish national self-determination was achieved and the sovereign state was created. That was consistent with the principle of self-determination since it is a collective right with the state being the sovereign territorial entity wherein the nation exercises its right to self-determination via its democratically elected government. That nation via its state then exercised self-determination to self-determine that unity should occur only by exclusively peaceful means. So that it all legitimate.

    In contrast, PIRA could not have acted to secure the right to national self-determination for the Irish nation since that nation had already secured that right. They, of course, had no respect whatsover for the right of the Irish nation to determine its own affairs or to freely elect its own government. They were just a self-serving murder gang devoid of any principle or legitimacy.

    Unlike de Valera, the Shinners accepted the legitimacy of British rule and are now paid by the British state to assist in its internal administration. When dev hanged rogue IRA members who never understood the principle of national self-determination he hung them as traitors to the Irish state as the head of that state. In contrast, Marty administrates British rule and those he calls traitors are those who do not accept the legitimacy of British rule and therefore traitors to the United Kingdom.

    There are also other issues such as how a servant of the British state would try to use the office of president, and which state he would then be loyal to. There is a clear conflict of interest there.

  • FuturePhysicist

    Just a thought. Should the DUP lobby the Irish Government to allow people in N.I. to vote in the Presidential election?

    I think ironically that an all-Ireland vote would hamper McGuinness’s chances more than it would help them.

  • Munsterview

    Mick : “…..MV, Back off!….”

    I will in my ass : everywhere I am presented with the opportunity to do so and can do within your arbitrary and capricious rules, I will continue to take it and point out the contradictions of this Alias poster who has more political positions regarding the Provos than the Kama Sutra has sexual ones !

    Is this not supposed to be one of the purposed of Slugger, to ‘slug it out’ and through open dialogue, learn something about each other? Is not another ideal of Slugger to take us all outside our political, cultural and religious comfort zones into an open forum commonality where differences can be explored and understanding, if not appreciations reached ?

    I thought so anyway !

    How can this be done while people here are working with the intent to keep the borders of these boxes intact and reinforced with every post, especially if their despicable practices cannot be challenged and expose?

    Now Micheal a Bhuachailin, you take your deck of cards very handy indeed while dealing them Southwards for the rest of this election regarding my clashes with Alias. I know you told me that as the rules go ‘that thems the rules’ and if I do not like the way that you apply them I can take my self off over the Border and back to Munster!

    Not quite that simple a chara uasal !

    As a paralegal with seventeen years experience behind me, most of it in the Superior Courts, I can tell you that once you opened up this site and invited postings you also have in legal terms an implied contract with your posters where certain implicit and explicit things kick in, rights that were established in Common Law as ‘Slappy’ could tell you long before the electronic media age was heard of and some well before the first printed sheets came off the Gothenburg press.

    Far from taking my self off South of the Border if I do not like ‘the rules’ if they continue to be applied the way they are, where Republicans and Catholics may be insulted at will by some posters without adequate right of reply, I may just take a trip up North and have these rules examined by a third party and that is not an idle threat!

    As you know from our private correspondent I have very serious concerns regarding how this site is being used and abused in ‘The Hearts And Minds’ ongoing Counter Insurgency War and I would relish an opportunity of enlisting English friends and even an ex-MI5 person or two from the Irish Desk to say publicly how these things work.

    Mick, with respect, you cannot accept that media control and manipulation on these Islands occurred all during the Insurgency campaign, as you and any other media savvy person must do, and yet ignore the possibility or probability that the same thing is now happening right here currently in Slugger ?

    Just when is all this media interference supposed to have stopped anyway? If it did I must have been in France at the time as I missed it!

    I would have thought that as a media person committed to open communication that this subliminal interference and manipulations would be a matter of concern and annoyance to you, especially when it is used for purposes contrary to your intended Slugger ethos?

    You, as an experienced media professional are also aware that these media manipulations are subtle and skilled with the embedding so covert [ and designed that way] that there are no overt signs.

    However even this covert game has rules, norms and practices that are evident to another person who has taken a stroll through the ‘Hall Of Mirrors’ in their time and learned to separate the reflection from the reality or know where to look for, find and pull aside the curtain to reveal the ‘Wizard Of Oz’ at work !

    There are a sagacious and experienced few here that know all too well how the game is played [most on opposed sides to me unfortunately] and reveal their past associations by the methodologies they employ to counter any attempt at at exposure. Because this world is unreal and unimaginable to the average person, it is correspondingly very easy through skilled use of ridicule, sarcasm etc, to present the exposing party as ‘unreal’ also !

    In Theology students are taught when learning to understand and confront evil that the first and most successful stunt the Devil pulls to propagate the continuance of evil is to convince people that he do not exist. He do not manifest in ‘Opra or the Late, Late Show’ to do this, he has a host of other less identifiable and not so obvious ‘little devils’ to do that for him who in turn use ‘useful idiots’

    More than a few ‘little devils’ here in slugger as can be expected, and as for ‘useful idiots’ ….well that is all they are, they serve their purpose and are expendably once their use is over. Unfortunately in an Insurgency Situation most of this ‘termination’ is physical as it is the cleanest and least expensive way for The State of ‘taking care of the problem’ )

    I have had enough media censorship overt and covert in my political and cultural in my adult years to fill out three lifetimes. If there are rules then they should be transparent and Universal.

    Alias cannot be as insulting as he pleases of Roman Catholic beliefs yet start shouting ‘Anti-Semitic’ when I point out that there may be religious and philosophical reasons for his approach stemming from his Jewish beliefs, just as Turgon’s writings are informed by his Presbyterian.

    Why should Turgon’s Presbyterian faith, that of the Church Of Ireland for other Unionists, or my Roman Catholic Faith be subjected to open examination and critical analysis as to how we perform when judged against the norms of our religious believes and yet when I try to subject Alias, who is Jewish and an Israeli passport carrying citizen to boot, to the same scrutiny as the rest of us, this cannot be done and all he has to do is claim ‘anti- semitic’ the way the Unionists used to cry ‘Terrorist’ to Sinn Fein and all debate concerning his motives is silenced!

    All very well of course except when I first came on this site the entire generic Unionist team led by a certain ‘Windy, I-do-not-bet Admiral’ nailed the ball to the pitch and kicked the goalposts all over the field !

    They were not interested in playing the ball only the man and I had to take on the whole team playing in my penalty area without one blast of the ref’s whistle. Well, I stayed the course, played the long game, ever so often appeared to ‘give a hostage to fortune’ by dropping a hint about business, books, yachts, literary prizes etc, all added grist to the Turgon ridicule, sarcasm and invective mill !

    When there was enough of a list out there and I had enough responses elicited, I was ready I called the ‘Windy Admiral’ on it and demanded that he put ‘his money where his mouth was’ I would then verify everything about my yacht, literary achievements, book publications etc. I know you were away at the time, in fact I had to make sure you were ‘away from the shop’ when I did it!

    Back came the reply ” I do nor bet”

    The Windy Admiral was not only publicly ‘debagged’ but in the process, once ‘sansculotte’ and ‘ sans ceremonie, sans facon’ he was also shown, to continue the metaphorical peregrinations into allusion land, to be rather small and..(.well lets spare the blushes of the ladies here and and resort to the sweet tongue of the Gael where the culture is a little more earthly and rumbustious regarding these matters) “le bod beag ciuin ‘s gan aon liathroidi ‘san malain” !

    That took care of that : he did not learn respect I am afraid, but he certainally did learn caution ( same difference) ! His usual Loyalist ‘Greek Chorous’ suddenly lost their voice also and I got a bit of space….. or rather like the old Provo that is in my bones…. I took it and held it !

    Not an ideal situation but in the infamous but never the less immortal, if somewhat vulgar words of Richard Millhouse Nixon ” when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow ”

    Mick : “Alias, Can you watch what you saying. I’m having to pull some good analysis off because you are consistent playing the man over the ball!

    Do he know any other way to play ?

    I totally ignored his constant flow of insults etc while dealing with Turgon & Co. but once I turned my full attention on him he offered a truce. He was told in good old West Kerry parlance to shove that up the highest rafter of his……!” and that has been the position since.

    No problem in taking him or his propaganda on either but a level playing field is needed to do that, he seems to have a bowling greens lawn available to him while I am expected to play on one that makes Drumlin Country look as flat as the Plains of Kildare!

    As to ‘ MV, Back off!’ , would you consider doing the same thing?

    Why not waive the rules for one week in relation to Alias and myself and let us slug it out and clear the air for once and for all? You could even sell tickets for it !

    At the end of that just like what I suspect was his ‘Maskey. creation it will be all over because once his modus operandi and the reasons for it are exposed, so is his propaganda effectiveness. Of course you will loose a poster, as once he is exposed for what he is, he will not hang around no more than the ‘Maskey’ creation did,( and who incidently continued the same disruptive antics on other sites)

  • demeceface

    Industrial wage, chinese walls,fisherman and fox, Mary lou-‘Martin is a man with calibre” Anybody for calibre and ballot box?

  • galloglaigh

    Good post MV.

    I sometimes feel that others, such as Limerick and Turgon, are allowed to troll and attack others’ beliefs, yet people who post comments that many others would agree with get red cards without being allowed to expand and explain.

  • sherdy

    MV: ‘multi vocabularied’ – Good opus, but my poor dictionary is now worn out.

  • Alias

    MunsterMitty, do you really think that threatening the site’s owner with laws that exist only in your own pixie-populated head is the best way of persuading him to implement your censorship agenda?

    Dry your eyes, pick up your toys, and climb back into your pram, you overly-emotional little man.

  • Munsterview

    Alias : “…censorship agenda?….”

    I would like to point out to new readers and remind the old that the first blog I did here on this site led to a concerted campaign of Israeli caring passport holder Alias, to brand me as ‘anti-semitic’ and put pressure in ‘the owner of the site’ to prevent me blogging on slugger.

    This is what this same ‘paragon of enlightenment’ had to say about the Palestinian Peoples in the recent past……

    Alias : “…‘Palestinians’ – an entirely bogus nation – have no Palestinian language, culture, art, science, literature or any other hallmark of nation to unite them, just as they had no historical homeland to unite them….”

    Students of 20th,Cen. history will of course instantly recognize this dismissive language and terminology as the same as The Gestapo used against the Jews in the lead up to the Second WW before this creature and his cohorts took that attitude to its logical conclusion in the Auchwich Gas Chambers.

    If any right wing skinhead nut or other Fascists came on this site sprouting this denigrating dismissive, disrespectful tripe against Jews he would soon get short shift from Mick and there would, or at least there would be a guerrilla outcry against by the Slugger community.

    Why then can Alias, an Israeli Citizen and a never failing apologist for Zionist / Jewish interests allowed post racist opinions such as ” ‘Palestinians’ – an entirely bogus nation – have no Palestinian language, culture, art, science, literature or any other hallmark of nation to unite them…. ” with it appears complete editorial tolerance ?

    The immediate foregoing is a perfect illustration of why I have been a constant target for Alias bile…. I totally support the right of the Palestinian Peoples to State hood and the return of Occupied Lands to the Palestinian Peoples with Israel secure, in side earlier borders.

    I want Israel a Rouge Nuclear Nation to have International Nuclear Inspections and subjected to the same International Laws in regard to Nuclear Reactors as any other Nation, even as Iran is !

    Alias : “…MV, I can see that you’re a bit of an insomniac,…. ( re 4.03 am. post)

    Again with the negative and abnormal projection!

    Alias, like myself is ‘a details man’ he do not forget anything that builds up and fills out a personal profile. Time and again on this site in friendly exchanger with other posters who remarked on my unusual hours, I have said that since retired I get up late and stay up late primarily because of my realtime exchanges with United States Academic contacts and friends.

    Alias as a ‘details man’ of course have that long noted yet when the opportunity presented to project a negative, abnormal image, he did it although he knew that it was non factual.

    There are two views regarding this kind of activity ‘the all is fair in love and war’ approach where some will admire his ability to cause embarrassment, diminish a target and waste an opponents time. If left there the negative image stands and if explained as the old saying in Intel circles go…… ” if your explaining, you are loosing”…. as these things must be done covertly where the reader is influenced beneath the levels of their awareness.

    If explained overtly as here, then the person explaining can be also made appear paranoid ect, so it is a win, win situation for the instigator of the defaming piece and the ‘Target loose if they leave the negativity stand, yet the ‘Target’ can loose even more if they try to correct the ‘number’ done on them.

    A good operator….and credit where credit is due, Alias is good, damm good also cannot avoid leaving certain touches and patterns that like Maskey, over time lead to disclosure and consequent exposure!

    What I observed regarding the activities of another one of his usual Troika on another thread this evening equally apply here : Alias too it seems cannot pass a post of mine without cocking a leg and pissing on it ! However he has a very good reason for that, and readers may just begin to ask why?

  • Mark

    ” I want Israel a Rouge Nuclear Nation to have International Nuclear Inspections and subjected to the same International Laws ……….

    As Junior Soprano said ” I wanna f??? Angie Dickinson ….. so whatta you gonna do ? Never going to happen .

    Munster – the best way to sort this out is to put up the thread where the accusation was made . Let people make their own minds up .

  • HeinzGuderian

    Ladies,calm it down please.

    Marty running to be El Presidente is glorious news,surely ?
    The good people of Southern Ireland will bring the shinner delusionists to their senses. Of that I have no doubt !!! 😉

  • FuturePhysicist

    Alias:..‘Palestinians’ – an entirely bogus nation – have no Palestinian language, culture, art, science, literature or any other hallmark of nation to unite them, just as they had no historical homeland to unite them….”

    This is utter ridiculous comment to nationalise Science, there are no Scientific rules that apply differently between nations. You don’t border hop and suddenly the physical laws change. Science is the most internationalist pursuit in human history, if you want to attack Persian and Arabic contributions to Western science particularly in mathematics, medicine and astronomy such as algebra and alchemy (the earliest form of chemistry on which the subject grew).

    I agree with the analysis from Munsterview that this is similar to Gestapo thinking, indeed the German Scientist Johannes Stark was one of the people who tried to separate “Deutch Physik” (empirical science) from “Juden Physik” (mainly theoretical physics like QM and Relativity) eventually he was embarrassed as more and more Nazi industrialists and scientists lost support as the work of Einstine, Bohr and others were helping the Allied War Effort. The thinking of Einstine’s internationalism, his acceptance of both “Juden und Deutch Physik” is easily summed up in the first postulate of Special relativity that physical laws are independent of position i.e. Nations.

    I will also add that under Stark’s logic, the Palestinian Scientist Munir Nayfeh’s work would be classified as being “Juden Physik” as was his own Stark Effect and the reason for this is quite simple

    “Juden Physik ist Physik und Deutsch Physik ist Physik”!

    Just putting my vested interest on the table here.

  • pippakin

    MV

    His house his rules! that’s the way it is and should be. Naughty! The tried and tested shinner cry of victim hood is not applicable here! (note the overuse of exclamation marks, my little gift, just for you!)

  • Rumours are rife that UDA Chief Jackie McDonald is going to announce his candidature for the Irish presidency.

    Apparently his will be a progressive platform which will build upon his work in the peace process.

    Unconfimed reports quote him saying “This Irish passport doesn’t just get me into Disneyland, it’ll take me all the way up the Aras, and if Marty can run for office why can’t I? If the Irish people are serious about wanting a Unionist about the place and reconciliation then let them put their vote where their mouth is!”

  • Barnshee

    Catholic republican murderer of Protestants stand for election in ROI

    Plus ca change….

    nothing new to see here move along

  • aquifer

    Has Adams given him plenepotentiary powers also?

  • Party polling indicates that a well established liar would come bottom of the poll whereas a former IRA commander, respected as being honest and repentant, would have a decent chance of winning. Or so I am told.