POTD – Head of the Band

Albertbridge Road

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  • keano10

    Didnt realise the UVF played a decisive role during The Battle of The Boyne…

  • Moochin, can you please put up links which give a clear view of each of the flags being carried? I’d like to see all of the symbolism on display.

  • carl marks

    keano10 (profile) says:
    21 August 2011 at 10:00 am

    Didnt realise the UVF played a decisive role during The Battle of The Boyne…
    Thats Nothing i even had a apprentice boy tell me that the reason they fly the union flag is because it was flown from Derrys walls to show the ship breaking the boom that loyal people still held out against the rebels, He got very angry when i pointed out that the union flag didnt even exist at the time of the siege.

  • “loyal people still held out against the rebels”

    Carl, surely the folks he was referring to were the rebels ie they refused to accept official orders and barricaded themselves in. Did you not mention that?

  • Nevin you’ll just have to make do with what you can see.

  • michael-mcivor

    I suppose those u.v.f supporters agree with the u.v.f when they followed the Provos and put their arms beyond use- the Provos lead- the rest follow-

  • Scáth Shéamais

    I suppose those u.v.f supporters agree with the u.v.f when they followed the Provos and put their arms beyond use- the Provos lead- the rest follow-

    So what did they kill Bobby Moffett with, a peashooter?

  • carl marks

    Nevin (profile) says:
    21 August 2011 at 11:08 am

    “loyal people still held out against the rebels”

    Carl, surely the folks he was referring to were the rebels ie they refused to accept official orders and barricaded themselves in. Did you not mention that?

    Thought about mentioning it but he seemed to be so upset with the flag thing that i didnt want to upset him any further, you see i had already mentioned the allaince between the pope and william and didnt think that he could take any more bad news.

  • I’m not knowledgeable about flags; I’m also colour-blind, MP. I hoped you might be able to link to each of the flags and provide some illumination as to what is on display. At present all I see are the UVF initials, two red hands, a shamrock and a crown.

  • I was heading home yesterday and grabbed a couple of photos of one of the many bands that were marching through the East of the City yesterday and this is the best of the bunch. The only way to get a proper photo of them is to get the flags before they set off.

  • OK, MP. Perhaps someone else has access to an online archive of these flags.

  • ranger1640

    MP why not introduce yourself, and tell them what you want and where you are going to post the photos. I’m sure they will be happy to oblige.

    That way when they are parading around their own areas you won’t need to try and snatch an anonymous snap.

  • HarryDeek64

    Not exactly an online Archive, but i can supply some images of a leaflet.

    http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/713/page1zg.jpg
    http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6470/page5hl.jpg
    http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/729/backallo.jpg
    http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/4166/page3x.jpg
    http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6310/page4nh.jpg

    If you really are that interested in learning about the history of these flags, it’s not hard, some of those images may be hard to read unless you can save and resize somehow on your own computer.

  • All four flags are totally legal and totally legitimately carried. Far right is simply a band flag, far left is 36th Ulster Division, Purple flag is a replica of the original Ulster Volunteer Standard of 1912 and third flag is a tribute flag to the Young Citizen Volunteers of Ireland/ 14th Batt RIF. The UVF did essentially serve in WW1 in everything but name. Ill be putting a topic on shortly for those interested in flags and standards carried by bands.

  • Reader

    Nevin: Carl, surely the folks he was referring to were the rebels ie they refused to accept official orders and barricaded themselves in. Did you not mention that?
    In a conflict between King and Parliament it’s usual for both sides to refer to themselves as loyal until the issue is resolved. Personally, I would always go with Parliament.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Quincey,

    The UVF is a proscribed organization and as such carrying banners bearing its name are certainly illegal.

    There is no way it would be permitted in, say, the RoI to carry a flag saying “IRA” and then trying to claim that it is in the name of the Republic’s armed forces.

  • No Comrade Stalin you are incorrect. I will be posting shortly to help explain my perspective (which of course others will disagree with). In the meantime have a look at…

    http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/uvf_flag_is_legal_cops_1_2834359

  • ranger1640

    Comrade, could this be categorised as street theatre???

    We know republicans like to take part in street theatre at gaa grounds and on their parades. Maybe this is Loyalists copying republican art????

  • Comrade Stalin

    Quincey,

    I don’t mind people commemorating the 36th Ulster Division.

    But this UVF flag thing is a piss-take. I can’t imagine that you would regard flying an IRA flag as being legal on the basis that it refers to the guys over at http://www.military.ie.

  • Millbag

    I think you’ll find that in 1912 the raising of a militia in Ireland was illegal. That the UVF was renamed and subsumed en masse into the British Army in 1914 should not detract from the fact that in 1912 it was very much an illegal organisation.

    Either way, this all represents a very unhealthy obsession with militarism…

  • No Millbag, it wasnt illegal. Factually, it wasnt illegal.

    And it wasnt renamed and subsumed. The UVF actually wasnt officially stood down until 1919 (reformed in 1922). But it WAS given special dispensation and a Division created SPECIFICALLY for its members. That creation and the uniqueness of it established a link that is both intrinsic and undeniable.

  • Harry Flashman

    I don’t think either the Ulster or Irish Volunteers were illegal organisations nor indeed was it illegal for them to be armed.

    Prior to the Great War the United Kingdom was a surprisingly libertarian place where there was an extremely small government (despite ruling over a quarter of the globe) and a high standard of individual liberty regarding drug use, firearm ownership and political organisation.

    The one field which was overly restricted compared to today was sexual relations. It is the hallmark of the so-called liberalisation of post 1960’s that the only thing the government relaxed control over was sexual relations while massively clamping down on every other freedom from substance use to free speech and rights of association.

    Edwardian Britain was a remarkably free and civilised place.

  • Quincey / Millbag,

    I’m curious about this: my limited recall of this tells me that *all* militia in Ireland were formally illegal in 1912 and there’s little question that the UVF were a militia as defined in the act. That it wasn’t prosecuted as such was a different matter, surely?

    From what you’re saying, it seems I’ve got this wrong Quincey? When you say they weren’t illegal, are you referring to a bit of sophistry on the part of a government that had drafted general legislation to deal with a particular sort of (nationalist/catholic) threat, or is there something I’ve missed here?

  • “Edwardian Britain was a remarkably free and civilised place.”

    Beggars were, indeed, remarkably free to drink Champagne.

  • Harry Flashman

    There are still thousands of beggars in modern day Britain and just as free to imbibe whatever they can afford.

    Your point is?

  • Millbag

    Yes Quincey, that it was treated with kid gloves and not prosecuted was entirely political. For a start it had many high profile establishment figures as its leaders, not to mention widespread sympathy in Parliament and the army.

    Likewise the Irish Volunteers, the Irish Citizen Army, IRB, IRA – all illegal.

  • Millbank, A T Q Stewart describes the UVF background in his book, “The Ulster Crisis”. When other Orange Lodges discovered in 1911 that a Tyrone lodge had been practising military drilling others began to follow suit. The secretary of the Orange Order discovered that two JPs could authorise drilling and other military operations within their jurisdiction provided that the object was to render citizens more efficient for the purpose of maintaining the constitution of the United Kingdom as now established and protecting their rights and liberties thereunder. The first licence was applied for and granted in early 1912. About a year later the Ulster Unionist Council decided to amalgamate these groups into a single body known as the UVF.

  • galloglaigh

    “The UVF did essentially serve in WW1 in everything but name”

    That’s a point I have continually made, and it has been rejected by unionist terrorist apologists. Does this mean that the UVF served legitimately in the UDR\RUC over the last 40 years? Of course they had some dual membership, but they are two different apples from the same tree.

    While UVF members did fight during WWI, they as an organisation did not!

  • Mark McGregor

    Of course using the same flags in a memorial parade for a recent UVF man is historical?

    http://i26.tinypic.com/if3b08.jpg