‘The broken society tops my agenda’


David Cameron has said tackling the “broken society” is back at the top of his agenda following last week’s riots. This is indeed good news as clearly there are some underlying issues to deal with. In his speech today he also highlighted the fact that he would ‘turn around’ the lives of 120,000 of the most troubled families. In fact he said he will put “rocket boosters” under the families the efforts to turn round these difficult social units in the wake of recent rioting. This was an interesting statement because, quite frankly, it’s a tall order. He went on,

We need more urgent action, too, on the families that some people call ‘problem’, others call ‘troubled’. The ones that everyone in their neighbourhood knows and often avoids

The first question from the press [the BBCs Ross Hawkins]  referred to the figure and how this was going to be quantifiably measured. It would be safe to say he didn’t answer that one head on. He cited some of the root causes of this ‘broken society’ were children without fathers, schools without discipline and communities without control.

Boris Johnson writing in the Sunday Telegraph at the weekend suggested that many of the rioters arrested had ‘brushed with the law’ before,

The overwhelming majority, of course, came from the lower socio-economic groups, from the ranks of those who have been left the furthest behind; and the most recent figures I have seen suggest that 69 per cent of those charged have previous convictions.

Back to that speech then. He went on to talk about his appointment of entrepreneur Emma Harrison last year as a “family champion” to lead a drive to get workless families back into employment. Her research pointed to about 125,000 families that had never worked, I assume that’s ever? What! Apparently  bureaucracy had held back her work in this area; but then there’s nothing like four days of rioting to focus political will.

His ‘big society’ is in fact lots of very small ones. Some law abiding, some not. Some black and some white. Some affluent, some poor. But in fact there are no generalisations to make here. The fact of the matter is that lots of folk have low self esteem and no self respect, mix these two together and you have a potent brew that will smack you in the face if you look at them the wrong way.

So forget about support groups, baton rounds, longer prison sentencing and more social workers. Address self respect and self esteem and then you will have a society to be proud of.

BTW – Do they have pink wheelie bins in London?

  • Middle class angst because the underclass have run amok as they are wont to do from time to time in all societies and all ages. Now that the street violence and criminality has been brought under control, promises, however well intended or misbegotten, will be forgotten in a month or two. Big Society my arse.

  • lamhdearg

    d.c. is a wa**er, david davies for leader.

  • nightrider

    Whatever happened to the Special Patrol Group (SPG) who were highly efficient dealing with incidents like the last weeks. Most were ex Paras and knew how to deal with situations well away from the prying socialist press and liberal white guilt junkies. Does the Flying Squad (Sweeney) still exist? Or has PC rendered them to history, to be replaced by ‘community support officers’ and parking attendants.

  • thethoughtfulone

    ………….and whatever tops the headlines this week will “top his agenda” next week!

  • Jimmy Sands

    So long as gimmicks and platitudes are what’s required, he’s your man.

    I hear he’s installing a Batphone in No. 10

  • ayeYerMa

    Great to see this type of talk from David Cameron. Hope he keeps it up and does not fall back into liberal PC Dave mode again.

    PS: think that is a normal black/grey bin, just looks purple under the orange light.

  • ayeYerMa,

    You have unwittingly hit the nail on the head. It’s all puffery talk. Don’t hold your breath waiting for meaningful action. Cameron and May might think they can direct the police to take orders from them. The sensible folks of the UK will not accept a politicised police service/force, let alone the Chief Constables who are the ones who are responsible, although accountable of course.

  • Whilst Dave Cameron and chums studiously ignore, because they themselves are absolutely powerless to alter the root cause of everyone’s problems, right at the top of pyramid tree, will he forever be destined to be recognised as both a useful tool and useless fool of the corrupt system that keeps him and his sad ilk in office …… and will the system leadership be ever exposed to greater clearer and ever present and more catastrophic danger and inevitable and spontaneous collapse as an information critical mass is reached .

    His (Dave’s) sad and weary political life’s work appears to revolve around calling for the setting up of inquiries and meetings and programs to look at the problems which every man and his dog on the street know are caused by the very people and organisations/status quo systems he is studiously ignoring. And if you don’t know what those systems are, here is an unambiguous pointer which will leave you in no doubt ……. http://youtu.be/7iWKulQzeYw

    Politics …… a Public Fraudsters Playground?

  • This cartoon says it all the way it is ….. without having to say anything ……. http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00636/cartoon160811_636568s.jpg

  • Greenflag

    It’s okay for banksters in the City or Wall Street or Dublin to plunder and to be aided and abetted by politicians across the spectrum -think of the expenses scandal in the Commons or the number of US Congressmen forced into resignation for corruption or our own Dail wretches who were /are in the pocket of Anglo Irish and then theres the long so very very long list of CEO’s in the financial services world who have histories of ‘looting ‘ and plundering that would make a bishop blush and then there are the bishops and hierarchy of the RC Church who have been aiding and abetting in their attack on the poorest and weakest in their communities 🙁

    Trees rot from the top down be it in politics , religion or business or government and right now across the western world our politicians are being seen as increasingly incapable of stemming the drift to plutocratic chaos .

    Not that this ‘excuses ‘ the rioters their criminal behaviour and opportunistic destruction . There was/is no excuse for such – But there is an excuse for the looting and plundering of society by the City banksters – it’s called the golden rule . those who have the gold -bend the rules in their favour and have always done so . But it’s only in very recent times perhaps because of our on line googled world that the ‘bending ‘ has become so pervasive and the plundering so obvious that it threatens to undermine whatever is left of our ‘democracies’ .

  • Langdale

    Alex Kane had a fairly acerbic view of all of this in his News Letter column yesterday.

    I don’t actually know how to connect/link to the paper’s website so I have just cut and pasted a cople of extracts.

    ALEX KANE: Cameron won’t fix ‘broken society’

    Published on Monday 15 August 2011 08:44

    BETWEEN September 1949 and September 2002, Parliament was recalled on 23 occasions to discuss issues like the Korean war, the Suez crisis, the Berlin crisis, the Falklands, devaluation, Northern Ireland, Bosnia, the 9/11 attacks on America, the invasion of Kuwait and Iraq and the issue of the weapons of mass destruction.

    All of them huge issues, with national and international repercussions and all of them requiring debate and decisions of the highest order.

    In the past month, David Cameron has asked for Parliament to be recalled on two occasions: to discuss the scandal of phone hacking and ethical questions surrounding the issue of the appointment of his own director of communications; and last week, to examine the causes and consequences of some of the worst rioting and looting ever seen across England.

    On neither occasion did either Parliament nor the prime minister rise to the moment. Instead, we were treated to a series of get-ourselves-off-the-hook speeches and statements from both government ministers and opposition spokesmen, each and every one of whom refused to accept that they or their policies had anything to do with what was going on around them.

    What we witnessed last week was a political establishment stranded like rabbits in headlights. A prime minister who turned into a marshmallow before our very eyes. The lord mayor of London jetting in for a couple of photo-opportunities, realising that he had misjudged it all and deciding, instead, to round on Cameron. A deputy prime minister who acted and sounded like a dormouse which had accidentally escaped from the cage. And a leader of the opposition who chose to waffle and lecture rather than say anything of substance.

    Nothing will change because of these riots. Oh yes, there will be a propaganda campaign about those arrested and prosecuted, with Cameron and the police vying to claim the credit for nicking the wrongdoers. But that’s about it. Life will return to a sort of normalcy on the streets and city centres. Then, further down the line, it will be discovered that an awful lot of those arrested weren’t, in fact, imprisoned or even fined very heavily.

    And we will also discover that a lot were released without charge. Excuses will be proffered about why benefits can’t be cut, why parents can’t be held responsible, why rioters of a certain age can’t be given a custodial sentence, why police don’t have the resources to break-up gang culture and why all the pledges about tackling endemic problems have remained unfulfilled.


    As ever with Kane he’s probably too pessimistic in his conclusion, but I did like this—-

    The prospect of Cameron and Clegg fixing the so-called ‘broken society’ is about as likely as that of Ant and Dec raising, repairing and re-launching the Titanic. But having thought about it I still think I would feel happier if the Geordie boys were running the country. At least they might have a better idea of what ordinary people actually think and of what sort of populist response the public want when looters are helping themselves to mobile phones and plasma TVs! No matter how bad things get on the economic front the vast majority do not give in to their baser instincts: and that’s why they support the punishment of those who do give in.


  • vanhelsing

    I have noted many of the comments ring true with me also. I struggle with being told that stealing is wrong by MPs [although many have gone now] who, well, stole from the tax payer.

    As usual Greenflags discourse rings true. But I wonder if people agree with my op ed regarding the solution in the last paragraph or perhaps commentators may wish to proffer their own solutions to the ‘broken society’… if they don’t agree with ‘Dave’

  • Neil

    It’s not really a solution: a lack of self-respect/esteem sounds more like a problem to me. A solution would be more along the lines of how to address the lack of self respect.

    To my mind it boils down to this: if you could afford to buy what you need or want out of Dixons then you wouldn’t bother looting. I personally can imagine what life would have ended up like all to easily if I’d lazed around on the dole, and I can safely say working and earning do increase a body’s self respect.

    Of course there’s more to it than that. In society today a finite amount of money is increasingly earned by the rich, (and fair play, I wish I was one of ’em), who as a rule tend to squirrel more of their cash away in savings than, say someone on jobseeker’s allowance.

    The person on JSA will spend every penny of their money, paying tax as they do so. The money then earned by the shop pays tax, then the product manufacturers pay tax and a large percentage of the money is recycled into the system.

    So there’s a finite and reducing-all-the-time amount of cash in the country. The media reports nightly on the gloom surrounding the average person’s prospects in the country. If you were on the dole, with the government snapping at your heels to try to take your cash off you, and the only message you hear is that you will not be earning any time soon sunshine, the temptation to criminal activity will increase substantially.

    That applies to those people out there who have the desire to work and the education behind them to get a job paying a living wage. There are of course many categories of looter/rioter involved, including gangs.

    Solutions: jobs would be one IMO. I feel that there’s a real possibility that some of the parents of the kids involved should be held responsible, though how one does that I’m not so sure. If my kids were out and about after 10 p.m. I’d be going up the walls with worry.

    I have the dubious pleasure of dealing with two anti social, criminal morons on a fairly regular basis thanks to the estate in which I live, and I know how their parents operate. They excuse their kids for every crime that’s proveable, lie to get them off where possible, intimidate anyone who dares act (like calling the police for instance, who invariably do nothing) and apart from that they take very little to do with their kids, just feed them and buck them out the door to steal or vandalise. Neither of them saw the inside of a classroom above the age of 14, and despite the fact that they make lives miserable with their crimes I feel sympathy for them as their lives are ruined and they haven’t hit 20 yet. And all because of poor or non existent parenting (IMO).

  • Independent Ulster

    The preponderance of black rioters seems to go largely unmentioned by the mainstram media as it is understandably much more newsworthy if a white middle class kid is hauled before the courts. Although no doubt the balance is more than redressed on various right wing and racist internet sites.

    But, it is surely about time that black ‘community leaders’ started to point the finger of blame at the subculture, which although owing its roots to ‘white’ institutional neglect, is now thriving largely without any external (white) assistance.

    The Labour party decided to ignore the underclass (black and white) for more than a decade and I cant really see Tories tacking the issues with any gusto with the race factor making it a political minefield for them.

  • Munsterview

    Cameron has about as much chance of fixing ‘broken society’ as salvage people have of raising The Titanic and sailing it into dock!

    It was another Tory Prime Minister and Cameron’s ideological heroine, Tatcher that proclaimed that “there is no such thing a society” and she was later proved to be correct as when she was finished her ‘greed is good’ revolution, there was no such thing as society.

    Britain under the Tories did exactly the same as Ireland under Fianna Failed ? Progressive Democrats, cheered on by FG may I add, they removed in years every support system that had been put in place over decades of trial and error decades to get vulnerable children through basic health care and education right through to completing some form of second level with at very minimum a functioning level of literacy and reasonable health and with some expectations of a job and a place in society.

    Just like FF/PD and FG short termist, Populist politics and policies here, once the official support system was shelled out to impotence and incompetence, community co-operativism self help got demoralized and despairing of their efforts making any impact,by in large also withdrew.

    Now we have the result : most Irish cities can show a couple of hundred of no hoper kids that have grown up feral and part fed in sinkhole estates where drug business offer the only economic opportunity of upward mobility and anything approaching an industrial working wage that most middle class people regard as not sufficient to meet their needs.

    Teenagers, young adults and adults coming from this background are totally alienated from the norms of civilization to the extent that selling drugs to kids, robbing pensioners, looting cars at funerals etc is all without moral sanction for them. Opportunity and numbers prevent a Tottinham situation in any major Irish urban centre population centre, the same mentalities exist in significant numbers.

    The only significant difference in the English situation is the numbers involved : here we are dealing with hundreds, there they are dealing with thousands ! It was not as if those in charge did not know what was brewing. Harriet Sergeant got the confidence of some of this feral underclass and for years in stark, factual, unemotional reporting in the Sunday Times and other media she has spelled out the lifestyles and the degree of alienation of this segment of society for all to read and appreciate.

    The reality is just like here in Ireland, no body cares or at least cares in sufficient numbers to act and make any appreciable difference.

    The Tories under Tatcher began the process of large scale destruction and dismantling of society, other Tory leaders and governments bought into it, middle class greed was encourage until it became a norm to the extent that ‘New Labor’ had to pander to this greed, low tax and consequently low social services spend mentality to get elected.

    Just like Gilmore and Irish Labor getting into office and essentially continuing to sell Fianna Failed policies in the shop with the window dressed different, so also with British ‘New Labor’ who continued what were essentially Tory policies under a new guise and packaging. Society continued to get dismantled and even more children grew up feral outside of any form of agency supervision or care.

    These youths were the core of the destructive rioters. As for the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker turning up to oppertunistilicly help them selves to or purchase looted goods for a pittance, can anyone be really surprised at this ? This is Banker ‘greed is good’ and F*** the consequences ethos devolved down to street level.

    Young thieves and tugs in hoddies looted a few hundred stores and food markets and it looks like the system is now using a sledge hammer to crack those particular nuts Old Thieves in pinstripes have looted and shelled out thousands of commercially viable companies producing and trading goods and employing hundreds of thousands, selling off company assets and throwing productive workers out of employment probably for life.

    The ‘ordinary people’ who looted just committed errors of scale : if they looted in the multi million scale either by shelling out viable commercial concerns or managing hedge funds that wiped out pensioners earnings, they would be lauded for it by the Cameron and the Tories, even got Board of Directorships, Government quango seats or a knighthood or two for their activities !

    If the Tories are serious about ‘fixing’ broken society they should begin by resigning from Government and exiting the Commons, not by the entrances but over the balconies and into the Thames as a start to atonement for the havoc they caused with their policies caused in social wreckage.. They should also take most of the Lib Dems and a significant portion of New Labour, F***** Up Labor or whatever they call themselves now days with them while they are at it.

    If Society, be it big society or whatever is to be fixed then the words of the late Peter Russell the classical scholar and poet of Irish extraction, must be heeded when he stated that “There are certain Universal Norms without which we cannot really live” Tories have systematically removed and abolished many of these ‘Universal Norms’ that were the glue that held society together.

    Then the Tories froth at the mouth when having removed these norms of civilization, the underclass acts as a mob without regard for a value system that they have nothing but contempt for having experienced the disassociation of the middle and upper class for their deprivations all their natural lives!

    John Major popularized a ‘Back To Basics’ sound bite and it became a catch-phase. Thanks to Tory mal administration and policies amply assisted by New Labor, Fixing what is broken is no longer a matter of ‘back to basics’ it must start by putting the very basics in place and Cameron and the Tories are just not prepared to fund those dire necessities.

    Thanks to the propagation of the ‘Greed is Good’ mantra that became a middle class norm and creed, it is now debatable if there is an appetite for funding the necessities to rebuild a functioning working class society to the extent that a difference can be made. There is need for a much greater debate regarding the very concept of society and what it means ‘fixing what is broken’ even if it is sincere and translates into action, given the scale of the problem, is still no more than shifting deck chairs in The Titanic, the ship is still going down!

  • It will be interesting to hear of the plans for the future, for one and all here in Northern Ireland, from the leading lights housed in luxurious office space in Stormont as soon as they return fit and fresh from their extensive holiday break. They surely have something major and revolutionary to implement or are they still to going to be crying that it is Westminster which prevents them from rescuing the nation from ever increasing prices and deepening poverty.

    If that is the case, then it is time for some new radical faces to replace any the old whingers who have no idea what to do for the better because the public aren’t paying for things getting worse for that is a sure sign of failed government.

  • Munsterview

    A good write up on the Nation by Naomi Klein at ……


    …… that covers many of the areas that I touched on from a simlar viewpoint.


    This is said in all seriousness. As if the massive bank bailouts never happened, followed by the defiant record bonuses. Followed by the emergency G-8 and G-20 meetings, when the leaders decided, collectively, not to do anything to punish the bankers for any of this, nor to do anything serious to prevent a similar crisis from happening again. Instead they would all go home to their respective countries and force sacrifices on the most vulnerable. They would do this by firing public sector workers, scapegoating teachers, closing libraries, upping tuitions, rolling back union contracts, creating rush privatizations of public assets and decreasing pensions – mix the cocktail for where you live. And who is on television lecturing about the need to give up these “entitlements”? The bankers and hedge-fund managers, of course.

  • vanhelsing


    There seems to be a subtle justification for some of the rioting/looting in you argument,

    “As for the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker turning up to oppertunistilicly help them selves to or purchase looted goods for a pittance, can anyone be really surprised at this ? This is Banker ‘greed is good’ and F*** the consequences ethos devolved down to street level. ”

    that may well be but the logic in it doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. If followed it says ‘because someone else does wrong I can do wrong’. This is not really the basis for good moral judgements.

    I’m not defending the bankers [jail em’] but their behaviour cannot be used to defend others if they break the law.

    This of course leaves aside the stronger imperative for me in that many of the stores, shops, cars and property that was looted was privately owned by folk working hard within the law to earn a wage and provide for their salary.

    The rioters/looters are no better than the school bully who isn’t content with his lot so then takes from others through force.

  • Munsterview

    Van : “….There seems to be a subtle justification for some of the rioting/looting in you argument,…”

    Van, Appreciating the reasons for something and contextualizing an event is necessary for both contemporary comment and historical accuracy. That is not a matter of morality, it is but pulling back from the individual trees and taking a look at the wood as a whole.

    There is no justification for looting small business : many of the early electronic shops were off high st. because of rents and up side streets. Many twenty years ago were Asian traders that were thrown out of Uganda and started again from nothing. The Middle East Arab shop owners were a great lot : they remembered names and talked of families whenever we met. They are in my mind and I feel for them.

    However back to the ‘Greed is good’ mantra and the attitudes that it inspired : I have seen the English equivalent of the ‘Celtic Tiger’ mentality twenty five years ago and I see first hand the value systems of those caught up in it.

    I also discussed the harm this was doing with Irish Building Contractors of the time living and working in England, London in particular. These were men that had come up the hard way and ones that could cut a corner and ‘pull a fast one’ with the best of them yet they were appalled at the prevailing ‘business’ attitude of the young pinstripe financial buccaneers that they had to deal with.

    As a class these pinstripes were without a word, friendships, religion, morals, ethics or a social concensious ! However these were the same people and values championed by Tories from Tatcherism on when ‘Patrician Conservatism’ with it’s concern for society and social structures got the boot along with the Unions. I drew a parallel with what happened here with FF/ PD, cheered on by FG tearing down everything and putting nothing in it’s place.

    We all know what should be done with well healed financial law breakers of the Ruling Establishment Elite but it was not done, just like Ireland when these financial directors were exposed they retired wit monumental financial severance packages and were quietly welcomed on to other prestigious boards although they had presided over or had knowledge of colossal wrongdoing and Law evasion.

    These sinkhole estate rioters may be in the main illiterate but living as we are in a media saturated age with wall to wall twenty four hour news coverage, they and those of a working class and lower middle class background have seen what these people did and seen them walk away from the financial and social wreckage they inflicted without accountability.

    Theft, property destruction, firebombing business, looting, these are all individual choices based on individual value systems and morality. Whether we like it or not English society is layered and tiered. The very class hit the small business people have ethics, family values, morals etc but only because they look inward to their own muslim or hindu families and communities rather than externally for their value systems.

    These sinkhole estate feral kids are damaged from childhood and again I turn to the writings of Harriet Sergeant in the Times and other media going back over years where she laid bare the lives of these young hoodies. Most spend their days hungry and such food as they did eat came from mars bars, other rubbish confectionary and chippers. Many were sleeping rough or sleeping a dozen to a room in some council house they had broken into.

    In England as in Ireland it is even official off the record Urban Council policy to leave one or two boarded houses with a back door open in the hope that these hoods will not break into and damage other local housing stock they are attempting to conserve. These drug and cider dens then become the local social centers and the only ‘second level’ these kids go through from early to late teens until their first arrest and detention.

    Fixing 125,000 Families? I passed through the Urban Business Wasteland of Bradford some weeks back and I dare say that in that place alone The Tories could find that many families to ‘Fix’ To borrow a saying from my late grandmother ” That’s no better than taking a spoon of piss from a full po to empty it ”

    The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker looters etc, those who had stable backgrounds and occupations, these are the MTV generation where in addition to seeing their own Establishment ruling elites involved in ‘financial engineering,’ ‘creative accounting’, and ‘corporate looting’, they are fed a diet of rebellious, destructive negative attitudes as backdrops to popular culture.

    To take but one example here Jeward got the kind of break that is beyond the wildest dreams of their peer group. They were and apparently still are decent kids who genuinely care for their fans and are still enthralled by their show-biz world. They could have been a very positive influence and role model, yet their first series of concerts were hyped as ‘ The Bad Attitude Tour’ to young teens where these were sold as ‘Bad’

    Van there is a problem with the lower levels of English Urban Society for decades now, it is seen at it’s worst in the sinkhole estates and the next tier up in the ‘Lad and ladett’ drinking culture, the hen parties and the soccer hooliganism. Hariett Sergeant and Gerry Springer have, to name but two have exposed this, but it is not politically correct to comment on it no more than it is to do so on the real reason for the breakdown in Limerick!

    I am not excusing the actions of the looters for one moment, what I am saying is when it comes to questions of morality and a value system in the lower classes, arising from a mixture of Social service providers incompetence, financial curtailment, facilities neglect and ghettoization of problems inside which different standards apply, there is in effect for all the reasons given no morality or value systems any more in these lower classes.

    What do it say for social justice when somebody handling a stolen laptop valued at £250 wholesale is sentenced to six months prison while some white collar ‘Smart Alek’ using a hedge fund and ‘financial engineering’ can handle a stolen viable commercial company and loot it for 250 million and walk away from the hundreds thrown out of work, the destroyed pension plans, the crashed mortgages and all the other human wreckage ?

    No Van, I am not morally excusing looters or justifying what they did but what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as the saying goes. There is little point in Cameron & Co and whatever pass for High Tories these days castigating street looters while acting as cheer leaders and facilitators of corporate looters.

    Whatever these street hoodies are, they are also street wise and ‘coming down hard’ on them while ignoring the corporate raiders, the bank mismanages and the hedge fund corporate raiders is but fulling the already keen sense of grievance and alienation that will manifest in an even greater episode of destruction the next time around and the round after.

    They have not gone away you know!

  • In reply to Munsterview, 17 August 2011 at 4:03 pm, who shared ….. What do it say for social justice when somebody handling a stolen laptop valued at £250 wholesale is sentenced to six months prison while some white collar ‘Smart Alek’ using a hedge fund and ‘financial engineering’ can handle a stolen viable commercial company and loot it for 250 million and walk away from the hundreds thrown out of work, the destroyed pension plans, the crashed mortgages and all the other human wreckage ?

    No Van, I am not morally excusing looters or justifying what they did but what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as the saying goes. There is little point in Cameron & Co and whatever pass for High Tories these days castigating street looters while acting as cheer leaders and facilitators of corporate looters.

    Quite so, Munsterview, and that is a situation which the system and the likes of mighty minnows like Cameron and his political ilk, has not and cannot address, for to regularise it will see it collapse and its major players outed to the world and his dogs of war as something worse that just common greedy criminals, and so the charade plays on, with crooked systems administrations getting ever deeper into territory which ruthlessly exposes it to knowledgeable and fabulous able radical counteraction.

    And the peers and pathetic pawns in that rigged game are actually playing with and transferring countless trillions, and not merely dealing with paltry millions, from one crooked system to another crooked systems, with all such systems now very keenly aware that the apps and the quants and the algorithms and the electronically controlled channels they are using, are as pass the parcel ticking time bombs welded to their sticky fingers, with the detonation triggers in the hearts and minds of others, over whom their money systems have zero command and control.

    Between a Rock and a Hard Place Offers No Hiding Space to All who Deserve Just Desserts Long Overdue and Ripe for Spontaneous Delivery.

    The new post modern leadership is anonymous and legion and in virtual control of the human command space place* ….. and they do not suffer the folly of fools nor have need of their pretty useless tools for power management and wealth redistribution. LOVE is all you need and they have Special Intelligence Services Access.

    * Live Operational Virtual Environments for AIMissions and Cyber Security Operations Centres …… SMART Hubs well able to offer crushing defeat to Hubris and a National InterNetional Security Treasure you can always enquire after, to be told by some officious mandarin who knows not nearly enough, that you don’t need to know, because such things are classified way beyond anything that their pay grade delivers in a red box and they will be privy to.

    Out of the loop because of their lack of necessary intelligence is their place in that space and which is revealed to y’all here …. and so plausibly easily deniable too by whatever channel you would try to engage with, even whenever it is privy to all channels because of what it has done and can do with IT.

    And that is as much as one would need to know in such matters …… until suitably vetted for further extremely sensitive and powerful command and control information ….. advanced knowledge/Artificial Intelligence?

    And shared as a question lest a statement be considered pretentious and far too revealing.

  • vanhelsing

    MV I understand more clearly the tenor of your arguments and agree with most of what you have said. My only concern is people justifying the riots rather than explaining their theory for why they believed they happened.


  • Munsterview

    vanh : “…My only concern is people justifying the riots rather than explaining their theory for why they believed they happened…..”

    One remarkable Moslem extended family there not only allowed me into their back assembly room, I was also there during prayer on several occasions. I see the industry and determination of some of these people first hand as I did the three intergenerational co-operation of my childhood repeated.

    I have seen kids doing their homework using computer component boxes on desks, elders opening and packaging boxes while the teens and young adults built computers to order. All of this done in a conventional sitting room and kitchen ! Another thing I liked, while they did not use English as the working language, when I was present they did so as far as possible out of manners.

    I usually bought as many bags of various components as I could carry. Once I went to a large Saturday Indoor market but did not intend to buy on that occasion. I told a stall holder I knew that I had no money to spare on that trip, he insisted on I taking the components on credit until I was next over and all was done on a handshake !

    Then I found I had problems : having taken credit from one, it was an insult to refuse credit offers from others, every one of my regular suppliers caught me and I ended up with bags of stuff that I would not have purchased had I money. They bloody well knew it too and hugely enjoyed themselves at my expense !

    They were a good craic and have great heart : some must have been along the shops destroyed and they will need their resilience to get going again. At least through the Arab Banks they will have ready finance: unlike their Western counterparts, these banks under their operating ethics and morals are religiously obligated to help those coping with disaster.

    Complete reverse of Western Banking where one has to almost prove they do not need a business loan to get it and then pay through the nose for it!

  • Of course there’s more to it than that. In society today a finite amount of money is increasingly earned by the rich, (and fair play, I wish I was one of ‘em), who as a rule tend to squirrel more of their cash away in savings than, say someone on jobseeker’s allowance. ” … Neil 16 August 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Neil, Hi,

    If you are working with a false premise, does it render all of your arguments and/or views, null and void.

    In societies today there is a infinite supply of money, for it is easily printed for virtually nothing, which should have you asking why so few have so much of it and so many have far too little and not just enough of it.

    It is a crazy valuable mass weapon of control to enslave and empower the masses though, and to do as they are told or sublimely led to believe is necessary.

    Give a man/woman/animal what they want, and you will control them absolutely?!. …….. although you may discover that a really smart animal being may have realised the complex simplicity of that truism and would use it to power control of that which is to feed their needs and seeds …… with the system of thought reverse engineered and intended prey to suppression then master of oppression.