Blood and Thunder band Clogher 12th Demonstration

Just so happens that i got a vid of the only blood and thunder band to parade as part of the Clogher 12th celebrations just as they approached the Catholic pub to play ‘Scottish Soldier’

Blood and Thunder at Clogher 12th July from Moochin Photoman on Vimeo.

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  • keano10

    I’ve seen bigger crowds at our School bazaar! Ghost Town. The Twelfth is dying on its feet if this is anything to go by…

  • You do think they’d be disappointed if they knew that the average Catholic Joe supping a pint in said bar (though I doubt there were any) most likely has no idea what they were tooting?

    I’ve never heard of Scottish Soldier before, then again, I’m no expert on band parades.

  • God i never knew Clogher had a Pub called the Catholic

    More of the same

  • ranger1640

    If “the Twelfth is dying on its feet” as you put it Keano, and republicans are more and more confident and comfortable with their position within Northern Ireland.

    Keano, then why do republicans get so exercised about something that is, as you said “dying on its feet”?

  • Mark McGregor

    This does demonstrate the tune, like the sash, has several names. Playing it twice outside the same pub is still strangely convenient when most know it as a UVF number. At least the Quiet Man tribute argument can now be ruled out.

    Barry – on attendence, this end of the village had very few people, it got busier at the other end, pictures from previous years demonstrated it has never been a large event.

  • John you really shouldn’t pass comment considering the error strewn state of your own lil space on the internet.

    Now do tell me was there any face painting up at the field this year ?

  • Drumlins Rock

    Mooch, just when you were doing so well, you return to form. I hope you will show the rest of the bands now too.

  • uploading them as processing as i type.

    Like it or not this happened and whilst i am broadly supportive of the right to march incidents like this and the *ahem* hymn playing on the Newtownards Rd do the Orange Order no favours whatsoever of that i’m sure you will agree DR

  • ranger1640

    That is not blood and thunder band, they are a first flute band. There are second flute bands/part music and then the top concert flute bands.

    However some like to be called blood and thunder it sounds better.

  • keano10

    Ranger1640,

    I’m not remotely “exercised by it”. Was just shocked at the sparse number of bystanders. By the way, just 700 Orangemen marched with The East Belfast Parade this year. This is compared to 2600 in the 1970’s so there is certainly a decline.

  • ranger1640

    Mark, would the average republican in the street know or name that tune??? I knew the tune but did not know that they call it Scottish Soldier.

    Could it be that they are substituting words for other words and that is why they call it as they do???

    Sort of opens up the Sash come hymn debate again, don’t you think.

    Apart form one or two republican tunes, republican bands could play all day and I would not know what they are playing??? All I know is republican bands play shockingly bad, but give them time and they will get there.

    By the way what classification do republican bands get???

  • ranger1640

    Keano; judging by the number of posts on the Orange Order and Bands, and the availability to produce facts and figures.

    I would say that you appear to me to be getting exercised about them.

  • PeterBrown

    Ranger

    Not everything he says ids accurate – check out the latest on http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/07/12/dancing-on-a-pin-head-as-belfast-district-lol-no-6-squares-up-to-the-parades-commission/ and http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/07/15/orange-corner-boys-tricks/ then multiply or divide as appropriate everything he says by at least the factor of 2!

  • ranger1640

    Keano, your not a Sinn Fein plant on this board. Are you???

  • ranger1640

    Sorry that should have read, Sinn Fein community worker.

  • ulsterobserver

    Keano if Orange Order id dead on its feet then the Ancient Order of Hibernians is dead buried and forgotten !

  • ulsterobserver

    Ranger1640 Sure how could the community do without good old Sinn Fein community workers (enforcers)

  • Eglise en bois

    if this is a blood and thunder band insulting a cathlic bar then catholic bars have little to fear or Moochin, this is a pathetic attempt to prove a false maybe even stereotypical perception

  • Mark McGregor

    Eglise,

    Or, another option – you’ve not been reading all the blogs on Clogher and have missed the relevance of this band, the tune and the pub during a mostly unremarkable day?

  • nightrider

    How is a pub ‘Catholic’? Is there a ‘Protestant’ pub or Atheist pub nearby that people can visit?
    I quite like the idea of a village having an RC Pub, a Prod one and an Atheist/Agnostic one. Perhaps the latter could separate the two by a curtain?
    How do you tell which is which? And, more importantly, how could the barperson tell?

  • Drumlins Rock

    Nightrider, there is a Muslim Pub on the the other side of the street in Clogher 🙂

    honest!

  • I think here we really can see the problem with ‘parades’. Depending on your outlook you look for an issue or problem, and irrespective of whether there is or isnt one, you will find what you want.

    The significance of ‘Scottish Soldier’ (or any one of 100 names depending on the band member of the band that wrote it for his or her particular band) is zero. And i mean zero. It wasnt called deliberatly because of catholic premises or any other reason. There are a plethora of more recognisable tunes that could be called if that were the purpose.

    Sexondly, bands like Rising Sons of William Flute Auchnacloy (pictured) are among a band of less active and smaller bands. They would have a tune of list of approximately 20 tunes. Zero significance in it being called again bar it indicates they have a guy on the whistle who simply is reading his list out in order.

    Honestly, yous are looking far too hard for issues.

    in addition the label Blood and Thunder is being added hear to try and create an extra subtext. Like really. That band is just a flute band. Its no mroe or less agressive than any flute band from across the world.

    Stop looking so hard. There isnt always a ‘reason’.

  • Can i just clarify- every tune ISNT the same for every band. The total opposite- every band writes a tune out differently for themselves. Sometimes its slightly different, sometimes major changes.

  • ranger1640

    Mark as you said yourself you had an “unremarkable day”.

    However give a few days and time to reflect, you have had a laugh at the expense of a man trying to explain his perspective at questions that were put to him by your group.

    Then when the video editing is done there is a building that just so happens to get a tune played for it by the name “Scottish Soldier”? And now all of a sudden the conspiracy starts and the offence is taken!!!

    Maybe MP can tell us what time this video was take at.

  • Mark

    The management have done a Rebecka Brooks on Mark McG and taken him out of circulation in light of tonight’s new revelations ….

  • ranger1640

    What new revelations Mark????

  • Eglise en bois

    seriously Mark, the need to find offence by some is incredible (and pathetic) an unremarkable day, with a totally inoffensive parade (except by those who wanted to be offended) and the overall assessment, certainly in the country areas, the twelfth is a family day enjoyed by those who want to enjoy it, ignored by those who don’t and grossly offensive to those who need, yes need, to be offended!!

  • Mark

    The slugger hits the road thread ( clogher ) ….. i think lamhdearg is still looking to get hold of Mark McG …. lol

  • carl marks

    youngpoltico

    You are a Christian (born again I assume) could you answer these questions about the OO for me
    1. How can a Christian group have the rank of worshipful grand master surely a Christian believes only Jesus is worshipful
    2. Born again Christians often criticise Catholics for having symbols as part of their faith on the grounds that the bible is all a person needs to get to heaven yet the orange order insists that banners flags the right to walk certain routes etc are all integral parts of their religion
    These are not trick questions but a attempt to see if what i see as a square can be circled

  • Stu DeNimm

    >How can a Christian group have the rank of worshipful
    >grand master surely a Christian believes only Jesus is worshipful

    I have no sympathy for the Orange, but they’re in the clear on this one. They adopted this title from Freemasonry. Worshipful means that the individual worships God, not that the members worship him.

  • Nunoftheabove

    carl marks

    I’m not sure that they do argue that those things are symbols of their religion per se, I have never heard them argue this publicly or seen it in their official literature. They don’t pray to them in the way that Catholics do with, say statues or with the ‘help’ of, say, rosary beads and as such wouldn’t breach their position on idolatry or intercession, one of their stated objections to the indirect relationship Catholics have with ‘God’.

    It stems back, from what I can recall, to the aniconist aspects of Calvinism and of course Puritanism. This instinct isn’t necessarily contradicted by the extent of the ritualism within the loyal orders, albeit seen as curious by some that a lot of the reservations about the (roman) catholic mass is its very ritualism, but sure Christians generally have an innate capacity for hypocrisy, for contradiction and for the ridiculous, as we know.

    Aspects of the apparently sometimes bizarre ritualism which is believed to be particularly pronounced within Purpleism and Blackism are not without controversy to this day though and subject to internal debate is what I’m told. It’s enough to make a statue weep.

    Stu DeNimm

    Not sure that’s technically correct, I think it’s meant in the same sense that some English courts still refer to judges as “your worship”. As I understand it it refers only to the (very) old fashioned mans of addressing someone to whom one is signalling one’s respect (as a result of their social position, profession etc presumably). Either way you’re right though, it has nothing whatever to do with worshipping the office-holder themselves, stultifyingly deferential and anachronistic though it is.

  • tuatha

    Has the world ended? No comment from Pippakins? Usually puts in something however irrelevant, to every post. Not ill I hope?

  • Rory Carr

    Nunoftheabove,

    Catholics do not pray to statues any more than do Hindus or Buddhists. A plaster Christ upon a plaster cross is not taken by Catholics to be the Christ any more than a fat plaster Buddha or brass Shiva is mistaken for the Deity (or His prophet) in other religions. These statues are intended only as being representations to draw one’s mind towards that to which one is praying.

    Nor are statues treated as sacred although superstitious people may wrongly treat them as such much as superstitious Protestants might treat a copy of the Bible as sacred when it is not – it is the supposed Word of God that is contained therein that is considered sacred.

    However for a non-believer to treat with disrespect the emblems, books or icons of another’s religion would be a most serious crime against common humanity and only a most depraved individual would consider such barbarity.

  • Nunoftheabove

    Rory Carr

    You’re quite right, poor choice of words on my part. It would be more accurate to say that they – or some of them – pray before them, often if not mostly on their knees. To some rival Christians, the statues etc can represent the fact that they are being prayed to rather than prayed ‘at’ or, if you will, ‘through’ – although only metaphorically, which would be slightly more accurate to say. They represent the fact that saints and the alleged Nazarene’s ‘ma’ etc are often prayed to and their help and intercession sought rather than necessarily always praying directly to ‘God’ or to his ‘son’. A lot of statues, relics, crucifixes and the like are also ‘blessed’ which does rather tend to imply that they are something just a little more than what they materially are and therefore have innate spiritual value, which of course some of the Calvinist ‘family’ would dispute although it is said that Martin Luther had no problem with the crucifix.

    Often they’re not much more than, as you say, a visual ‘prompt’ to aid the pray-er get, as it were, in the devotional mood and to focus on the ‘actual’ subject of their prayers. The statue itself is not therefore the recipient of the prayer in any respect.

  • Rory Carr

    I am indebted to UlsterObserver for the news that “the Ancient Order of Hibernians is dead buried and forgotten ” and join with other Irish Republicans and Socialists in delighting to know that this is the case (if indeed it is the case).

    We were never much enamoured of this backward, petty bourgeois organisation in the first place any more than we were fond of the National Party or its successor, the SDLP.

  • carl marks

    ulsterobserver (profile) says:
    15 July 2011 at 11:12 pm

    Keano if Orange Order id dead on its feet then the Ancient Order of Hibernians is dead buried and forgotten !
    i just wish that were true

  • carl marks

    Stu DeNimm Nunoftheabove
    i thank you for your answers they have give me much to think upon,
    a few points that spring to mind
    1. Im quite sure that in the past i have heard members of the orange in the past state that not being allowed to walk up certain roads in full regalia is a attack on both thier religion and culture.
    2. why should a group that claims to be christain borrow speech and manneisms from the masons hardly a society based on the bible by that i mean were in the bible are rituals like riding the goat,the secret name of god, and standing around with your trousers rolled up

  • Stu DeNimm

    >1. i have heard members of the orange in the past state
    >that not being allowed to walk up certain roads in full
    >regalia is a attack on both thier religion and culture.

    Of course this claim is disingenuous. They do, though, have a right to march on the Irish people’s roads (or the British taxpayers’ roads for those who prefer it that way.) The correct nationalist response, as I like to say, is to hold decorous and peaceful nationalist marches through Protestant neighborhoods. Perhaps one day we will all march together, enjoy the lovely banners and martial music, and then have a GAA match.

    >2. borrow speech and manneisms from the masons
    >hardly a society based on the bible

    I’m an inactive Mason who drifted away from a lodge in the States because the fraternity, while nonsectarian, is too religious for me. I didn’t mean that the fact that this usage is borrowed from Freemasonry means it is necessarily compatible with Christianity. Masonry seeks to be compatible with any religion that believes in a supreme being and an afterlife, but it might not always succeed in this.

    >where in the bible are rituals like …

    I can’t say anything about the ritual except that there is a lot of bad information around.

  • carl marks

    Stu DeNimm
    stu now im very interested first the idea of catholic marchs in protestant areas well well meant i think we all know that it is not going to happen. and again im pretty sure that the OO members and suportters i the past have claimed that marchs and all that go with them are part of there relegion
    but on to the masons while i am uncomfortable with secret society’s or society’s with secrets i admit i know little of it and am willing to accept that i may misjudgeing them. my point is that the OO claims to be a biblie based christain organisation and will comdemm many others (catholics gays etc) because they do not follow the view of the bible held by the order surely it is inconsistant of them to take customs unto themselves that come from another group that does not follow the view they hold so deeply

  • Stu DeNimm

    >God i never knew Clogher had a Pub called the Catholic

    One day we’ll go to the same schools, but the same pubs, never.
    Catholics practice Transimbibation, Protestants Consimbibation. There would be a war if anyone tried it wrong.

  • Rory Carr

    Consimbibation, Stu?

    Wherever did you come up with that?

    I take it that you are stretching for a word that means ‘sharing from the same drinking vessel’ (as at Communion) but I doubt that consimbibation is it.

  • Nunoftheabove

    Rory Carr

    Stu DeNimm’s been watching that Black Adder episode with Samuel Johnson in again, I fear…

    Blackadder: “Contrafribularities”, sir? It is a common word down our way.
    Dr. Samuel Johnson: Damn
    Blackadder: Oh, I’m sorry, sir. I’m anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation.

  • HeinzGuderian

    mp……………………..hang yoiur head in shame,you bigotted bar steward !! 😉

  • Bugsy

    My God, you Belfast people are obsessed with trying to hunt out the merest hint of offensive behaviour.

    I don’t have sound on this computer so don’t know what the “Scottish Soldier” tune is but Clogher is a relatively short Main Street and their are 3/4 bars spread throughout it. The bar in question, Bogues Bar, was not viewed remotely by any of the participants as any kind of flashpoint area where the bands had to turn it up a notch. This is the Clogher Valley twelfth there are no flashpoint areas.

    As for the CV twelfth dying a death, I thought for the parade in question there was a good turnout. The Clogher Valley has a very small mixed population. It perhaps should be merged with the main East Tyrone parade to make it a decent sized parade but I don’t see it happening anytime soon and that’s fair enough. I personally thought the bands and lodges were in the main quite healthy numerically.

    On a final note, given the comical obsession with this Aughnacloy flute band, I heard, from an unreliable source that they were folding after the 12th. As Quincy said earlier they aren’t particularly active and age wise most of the lads seem to be in their 30s and 40s. For what it’s worth I hope it’s wrong, I enjoy watching the wee country accordian and pipe bands but also enjoy the more lively and brash bands as well.