“Gerry Adams has given his answer and that’s the end of it as far as I’m concerned.”

The Northern Ireland deputy First Minister, Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness, has been in Dublin, wearing one of his other hats ahead of the Irish general election.  And he’s been getting outraged on behalf of the still Crown Steward and Bailiff of Northstead, his party’s president, Gerard Adams, at questions over his credibility.  Oh, and on behalf of “people in the North”.

From the iol report.

Mr McGuinness said: “Gerry Adams has given his answer and that’s the end of it as far as I’m concerned.”

The Sinn Féin negotiator also hit out at remarks Mr Martin made over Mr Adams’ decision to quit his Westminster West Belfast seat and contest the election.

Mr McGuinness said some viewers in the North would have been offended by Mr Martin‘s comments on Monday night when he challenged Mr Adams over allegations of fraud in banking circles.

“People in the North would feel affronted at some of the remarks that were made on the debate the other night,” Mr McGuinness said.

“Where one party leader tried to give the impression that we’re not part of the Irish nation. That we’re northerners, that we’re people maybe to be despised or not to be respected. And an awful lot of people in the North don’t like that.”

Well, they don’t have a vote in this one, Martin.  And neither do you…

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  • Cynic2

    “Where one party leader tried to give the impression that we’re not part of the Irish nation. ”

    Well if you will use British Road Signs on your posters what do you expect Martin?

  • ““Gerry Adams has given his answer and that’s the end of it as far as I’m concerned.”

    Not as far as others are concerned: “Do you agree that Adams, who is running as Sinn Féin’s candidate in Louth for the elections, needs to discuss the “baggage” of his past?” Yes 59%, No 31%, Don’t Care 8%. thejournal dot ie

  • oracle

    “that we’re not part of the Irish nation”

    Well the good friday agreement means you’re not… and won’t be until the unionist people agree to be so… (Christ did you not read the agreement before you signed it)

    “That we’re northerners”

    Well you are….. you come from the Northern part of the Island, the part that’s owned and run by the British government

  • Oracle, you’re mixing up the nation and the state. Individuals have every right to be regarded as part of the Irish nation if they so choose. It is only the apparatus of state that is subject to a referendum.

  • Micheál Martin: “Every time he talks in this debate during the election about honesty and so on and we must be upfront, we must be transparent – it jars very much with his own position about the past … but I think there’s a huge problem for Gerry Adams in a credibility sense and he can’t really talk about honesty, truth and transparency ..”

  • Wabbits

    Oracle

    You obviously haven’t read the Good Friday Agreement either. There is nothing in it that says there will be a united Ireland when “unionist people agree to be so”.

    However, there is mention of a majority of people agreeing on unification. That is an entirely different thing from Unionist people agreeing. Unionists won’t have a veto on this one when the time comes. A majority is a majority no matter what the political make up of it is.

  • Dixie Elliott

    I wonder what the carpetbagger will do if he doesn’t get elected….Run back to West Belfast and throw the occupants of his seats out?

    “Right lads the fun’s over. Out you get, back to the average industrial wage with yous!”

  • redhugh78

    Dixie,
    ‘I wonder what the carpetbagger will do if he doesn’t get elected….Run back to West Belfast and throw the occupants of his seats out?

    “Right lads the fun’s over. Out you get, back to the average industrial wage with yous!’

    Guess what Dixie? next Friday you’ll have to wonder what if he HADN’T OF been elected. 🙂

    Gerry Adams TD, has a nice ring to it don’t ya think.

  • Jimmy Sands

    “That we’re northerners,”

    So if the n-word is now taboo what are we supposed to call them instead?

  • pippakin

    Gerry Adams has every right to be involved in southern politics. Its a pity that every tine he opens his mouth he confirms his ignorance of the south but that too is his right.

  • Cynic2

    I wish him success. Every time he opens his mouth in Dail Eireann will be another step away from a United Ireland

    “Tiocfaidh Ar La”!

    Yeah. Right

  • oracle

    Wabbits,

    The majority of the people of M McGuinness’s country of Northern Ireland are unionist, the coutry he represents as DFM.
    Are you stating that they’re not allowed to vote?
    How long ago was the Stormont agreement signed and how many referendums have been held on the future of Martins country that he is DFM of.
    Or even when have SF managed to get a date for a referendum…. LMAO

  • oracle

    Red Hugh

    “Gerry Adams TD has a nice ring to it”

    So does a fire engine but you don’t want to hear that either

  • juggernaut

    Gerry Adams does have a point. He has several and everyone just has to be careful who they are aimed at. MMcG does himself no favours leaping to the defence of the indefensible.

  • Gerry Adams is not a credible figure in polite circles. Martin McGuinness has his own baggage, concerning some truly savage murders in Derry. Leading PIRA members such as Sean MacStiofain have said Adams was in PIRA. McGuiness further damages his own small font of credibility by supporting his lame duck President.
    Both McGuinness and the Adams brothers (Liam and Gerry) could boost their credibility by taking lie detector tests, All Adams would have to do is take a lie detector test on national TV and answer the questions decent people want answered.

  • redhugh78

    Oracle,

    ‘The majority of the people of M McGuinness’s country of Northern Ireland are unionist..’

    NI is NOT a country.

  • Mark

    Regardless of whether Gerry Adams is seen to be credible or not , does anyone think he won’t get elected tomorrow week ? Of course not , he’ll romp home .

  • J Kelly

    I wonder what the carpetbagger will do if he doesn’t get elected….Run back to West Belfast and throw the occupants of his seats out?

    “Right lads the fun’s over. Out you get, back to the average industrial wage with yous!”

    Dixie wishful thinking especially from someone who claimed not that long ago went discussing the hungerstrikes to have no political axe to grind.

    Gerry Adams TD definately has a good ring to it, a game changer like Bobby Sands MP. Standing still or moping into a computer is not an option for republicans.

  • Neil

    Think I’ll wait until after Gerry’s romped home, and SF have increased their representation in the Dail by, ooh maybe 100%, to discuss Gerry’s political credibility. Looking forward to it.

    Should be interesting to see how the thread’s framed: the Crown Steward and Bailiff of Northstead romps home in Louth, but what about his credibility, what about the RA, whatabout his brother why didn’t he arrest him himself blah blah blah.

    By that stage, post election, one would hope that the Gerry obsessed might accept he has plenty of political credibility – much more than say, Baker or Maskey for example, or for that matter 99% of the contributors to this site, having been MP for WB with a landslide majority and, well, we’ll see post election how he gets on in the South.

    Not much for hypothesising, especially after the UCUNF threads from the last election, red faces all round there wha? Nah, there’s a very simple way of calculating someone’s political credibility, and that’s using the actual votes. As I say, looking forward to it.

    In the meantime, enjoy pissing in the wind folks, but beware. Your trousers are getting wet.

  • “a very simple way of calculating someone’s political credibility, and that’s using the actual votes”

    Neil, FF had been in receipt of quite a few votes around the time Ireland’s economic bubble sadly burst.

    Adams’ landslide victories in West Belfast did little for the economic fortunes of its residents, let alone for those who voted for him.

    Why would you expect SDLP supporters or other Nationalists to give SF an easy ride? Branding them Unionists or West Brits doesn’t make them so.

  • 241934 john brennan

    After giving evidence to the Bloody Sunday enquiry Martin McGuiness said he withheld some facts and names because he observed “the IRA code of honour.”

    Perhaps Gerry Adams is the more honourable, because he denies everything. Even admitting that he observes an IRA code of honour, could be taken as contradicting his denials.

    There was once a big ‘conflict of interest’ issue in the North (now openly regulated and resolved), about some police officers also being secret members of the Free Masons.

    Should that not also apply where there is any perceived possibility of TDs giving allegiance/support to any secret organisations, with their separate ‘codes of honour’?

  • When Bobby Sands was elected MP, I found something odd about Sinn Feiners boasting about Bobby Sands MP. Not so much sticking it to the Unionists but the servile nature of it, which is what Peter Baker is alluding to here. Gerry Adams, whether he likes it or not, is a steward of the Crown, the same way that James Connolly, Tom Barry and Tom Clarke’s father were soldiers of the Crown.
    Sinn Fein are helping to administer British rule in Ireland. That is a fact, irrespective of whether a collaborationist or a republican policy is superior.
    Gerry Adams is playing by the rules; he is becoming house trained. If he is elected, he can claim to have a mandate, the same way Bertie Ahern, Martin Ferris, Charlie Haughey, Michael Lowry and others have had mandates down the years. If Gerry Adams sells himself well in Louth or, more properly, if Louth Sinn Fein, aided and abetted by West Belfast types, get him elected, it no more makes him a more or less credible figure than he currently is.
    Gerry Adams is suspected of being involved in some of the worst atrocities Ireland has seen since 1923. That he can mesmerise gullible voters no more changes that that does the sweet voice of Ted Bundy’s sweet tongue, positively commented on by the judge who sent him to Florida’s electric chair, change the fact that Bundy was a deeply flawed character.
    Gerry Adams must face up to his past. Perhaps, they will, as the saying goes, get away with murder but that will change nothing in the moral stakes.
    Let’s say Sinn Fein will get a big protest vote. What will that change? Sure, Sinn Fein have hard working TDs, such as Arthur Sacrificial Lamb Morgan, and Martin Marita Anne Ferris. But they are economic illiterates with flawed pedigrees. Their populist bluster might win them a few extra votes and seats and they might have huge swathes of the nationalist parts of the six counties in hock to them.
    But when the dust settles, the reality will set in: Sinn Fein’s leaders are narcissistic democratic centralists (formative times in OIRA); they want yes men and yes women (Jackie Crowe, Mary Lou and that Ruane woman).
    Sinn Fein’s high point in this election would be to where Democratic Left were when Gilmore, De Rossa and the other nice guys jumped ship, leaving Garland, Mac Giolla and Goulding in the swill. Sinn Fein will also have to bite the bullet and get rid of the narcissistic old guard.

    Michael Martin spelt out the nausea decent people feel around Adams and his gang; the other mainstream leaders agree. Populism and fishing in murky electoral waters will get Sinn Fein so far. The real brains of the country, those who run businesses, corporations and financial institutions, cannot let themselves be in hock to a group who have pioneered tiger kidnappings and who have murdered Gardai and Irish soldiers for the craic.

    Should Sinn Fein’s irresponsible and uncosted populism make headway, markets and media players will react in a very unsettling way.

  • Mark

    I’m afraid you’re clutching at straws Nevin . This is about Adams credibility in relation to the election and whether or not this latest smear campaign will harm his chances come friday week .

  • Ceist

    “That we’re northerners, that we’re people maybe to be despised or not to be respected.”

    That ‘maybe’ leads to a cracking bit of conjecture where once again Marty is standing up for the underdog. What a guy.

  • Mark, my antennae are picking up a double smear: other Nationalists bashing Adams to damage SF; SF apologists bashing back using the Unionist tag.

  • “Marty is standing up for the underdog”

    I’m sure Comical Marty doesn’t view the Mouth for Louth wannabe as an underdog. Aren’t they both (still) ‘ministers’ in the legitimate government of (the island of) Ireland?

    Meanwhile, the OFMDFM overdogs are on an away day to Bangor with their water-wings.

  • Mark

    Let’s hope all the bashing is put to an end once the results are in , hey Nevin ?

  • Neil

    Not I Nevin. I haven’t mentioned the stoops recently or other Nationalists.

    With regard to ‘political credibility’ I had taken this to mean the ability, politically sepaking to inspire belief or trustworthiness. What is an election if not the opportunity for the public at large to determine whether or not, rightly or wrongly, the candidate inspires that belief.

    If a candidate is elected, they have credibility in spades for the simple reason they would not have been elected if a sufficient number of people hadn’t got up off their arses, gone to a polling booth and put an x beside the person that they believe in, politically speaking.

  • joeCanuck

    Mouth for Louth.

    Good one, Nevin.

  • Mark, there are two elections happening here in the near future. I’d expect there will be plenty of opportunities for SF bashing in the lead-up to those, as well as piss-taking. It’s almost become a tradition and there are a lot more easy SF targets with a deceit of ministers at Stormont.

  • Neil, there’s no accounting for electoral taste. Some folks like a little bit of rough and parapoliticians are linked to rough but speedy justice.

    London and Dublin have been distributing sweeties to the ne’er-do-wells in the hope that the miscreant’s excesses will be contained to the ‘wee province’ so maybe other folks hope that a few sweeties that fall from the table will come their way.

    The UUP-AP-SDLP spectrum is usually fairly soft on its opponents and its parties are portrayed as ‘push-overs’. Who’s going to make a great effort to vote for perceived wimps?

  • Mark

    Yes fair point Nevin , I was specifically talking about the southern general election .

  • Mark, in regard to GE11, Ireland lives in interesting times – probably too interesting. It would be a shame IMO if able candidates were swept aside to be replaced by populist but clueless ones – the frying pan to fire scenario.

    In another context I’ve been asked to respect mandates – but I pay no attention to such clamour.

  • “Gerry Adams has given his answer and that’s the end of it as far as I’m concerned.”

    That would be ok if McGuinness were a priest (or, more precisely a bishop hearing reserved sins).
    Martin McGuinness is not a neutral in all of this. He has been closely involved with Gerry Adams and his family for very many years. McGuinness had reputedly the highest positions in the secretive organisation called PIRA, to which Sinn Fein has had a very close relationship. McGuinness and his family have been linked with some of the most notorious murders in the Derry area. The human car bomb, for example, is up there with the crimes Adams (Gerry) has been linked to. The human car bomb made McGuinness look like the hard man even though it drove decengt people like Christy Moore away from supporting the indecent.

    Is McGuinness putting his own credibility on the line with Adams? Is he in effect saying he will resign from public life if the truth about Adams finally emerges?

    Someone in Belfast did order the Bloody Friday massacre. Someone in Belfast did order that a mother of ten and a mentally retarded guy be taken out, tortured, killed and dumped like the carcasses of stray, unwanted dogs in unmarked graves. I am eternally grateful that someone was not me. Can Gerry Adams say the same? Will he take a lie detector test to that effect?

  • 241934 john brennan

    Old proverb: “He that hath a secret to keep should not tell anyone that he hath a secret to keep.”

    Cardinal Brady: At the funeral of Charlie Armstrong after he had been “disappeared” for 30 years – those acting as judge, jury, executioner and UNDERTAKER …. acted in the most inhumane manner by withholding information from his family – particularly the location of his body.

  • tmcd

    The whole ‘was he or wasn’t he’ debate is pretty out-dated. I think most people know that Adams was a senior figure in the IRA – but that doesn’t stop Sinn Fein from having widespread support in the north. The fact is that lots of decent men and women were caught up in the conflict, and lots of them joined the IRA. Those were difficult and different times.

    Gerry Adams may not be the most eloquent of politicians, but he’s more competent, hard-working, and principled and than the majority of TDs. Many politicians and commentators seem happy to sing Adams’ praises on his work in the peace process, but once he crosses the border he’s labelled a terrorist.

  • joeCanuck

    Alan,
    Is “gerry adams should take a lie detector test” to be your new constant refrain? You know as well as anyone of us that such a thing ain’t ever going to happen.

  • Mark

    Nevin ,

    How do you think the People before profit would do in your towering inferno ?

  • PaulT

    do you think it would be possible to get a group discount on the lie detector cos I’d love to hook up the DUP and UUP ex-members of Ulster Vanguard and Ulster Resistance who now sit in the Lords and Assembly for a few questions and answers.

  • Unionists may well have questions to answer but this thread is about the long running sore of Gerry Adams, ex MP, who is starting a march on Dublin and who has been named as the instigator of some of the worst atrocities of the Troubles.
    If Adams is guilty and is held to account, the rest will not sleep easy in their shoes. Mr Adams has a chance to lead by example.

    If he does not, we can stay regarding the skeletons in his cupboard: They haven’t gone away, you know.

  • ” People before profit would do”

    Will not would, Mark. The illustrious Eamonn McCann will probably be throwing his hat into the ring once again – in another pointless fight over a comb 🙂

    The overheated Young Socialists played a significant role in setting the place alight here back in the 1960s. Your ‘towering inferno’ metaphor is apt if a tad insensitive 🙁

  • slappymcgroundout

    “Even admitting that he observes an IRA code of honour, could be taken as contradicting his denials.”

    From the Green Book in CAPS in the original:

    TELL THEM NOTHING.

    “That he can mesmerise gullible voters no more changes that that does the sweet voice of Ted Bundy’s sweet tongue”

    Maskey, Gerry may be a lot of things but Ted Bundy is not one of those things. By the way, re your lie detector idea, only works if people are “troubled” with their answer. If you pee ice cubes, you’ll pass with flying colors, no matter what you say. I get the sense that Gerry pees ice cubes.

    And you also said:

    ” Mr Adams has a chance to lead by example.”

    He did. He moved the much larger part of a movement away from violence towards peaceful politics. Perhaps you ought to address your critique to the likes of those RNU folk who call those who are in jail for bombing and attempted murder, “comrades”.

    I otherwise know why Martin is doing what he’s doing, which is merely to save whatever scraps of votes he can manage. If I’m Gerry, what I say back is:

    Martin, you can speak to 30 years ago until all of the oxygen in your head is used up and you’re blue in the face. Right now, however, some old folk will be going without home heating oil because you and your Fianna Fail mates reduced much of the populace to indentured servitude. Some of those old folks will die as a result. And thanks to your and your Fianna Fail mates, the nation’s young people are once again becoming Eire’s leading export. It pains me to say it, Martin, but given your and Fianna Fail’s destruction of the nation, we’d be better off if we’d never had a War of Independance. And, Martin, let us assume that I was in the PIRA, can you not see that with your destruction of the nation, not only Unionists in the north, but even the Nationalists and Republicans do not now want to join the failed stated that you and your Fianna Fail mates have created. So kudos to you Martin.

    And what in the f does Martin say to that? If Gerry wants, he can add that Albert Reynolds brought him in from out in the cold some years ago. He might also go even further back and remind Martin that his party was founded by the soul who spoke to having to wade through Irish blood. He might tie that in to failed state, i.e., Martin, do you remember when your party’s founder, de Valera, spoke to having to wade through Irish blood? All that for an indentured servitude to Brussels and the IMF?

  • Slappy: Nice whataboutery essay. In the meantime. respectable people think Gerry Adams is a war criminal. Former German soldiers are still being arrested for war crimes in Italy, the war crimes of Italians notwithstanding. Nobody needs lectures from someone suspected of the crimes against humanity Gerry Adams is suspected of.

    That Gerry Adams helped to solidify the current British status quo in the Six Counties is irrelevant. He and his excess baggage have come South to solve the economic problems of the Twenty Six counties, his baggage and economic illiteradcy notwithstanding.

    Gerry Adams can get his day in court, as did his new neighbour, Thomas Slab Murphy and as did Prionsias de Rossa if he has the bottle for it. However, though, like wanna be civil engineer Pearse Doherty, Mr Adams might lie through his teeth, if he does it in court, he might end up doing three or more years, just like Mr Sheridan in Scotland.
    Most repsectable people believe that prison is the correct place for Mr Adams and, indeed, many more of his dysfunctional family.
    Someone implicated in ordering the murdeer of mothrs of ten and mentally handicapped adults belongs in jail, not in Parliament. All the perfume of Arabia and all the whataboutery of the Felons Club will not change that.

  • slappymcgroundout

    Maskey: Careful, you are alleging that the British government negotiated an end of hostilities with a “war criminal”. That would be the first time in history. Now to be more correct, the Brits not only negotiated with Gerry, he is a signatory to the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement. No signatory to any such agreement has ever been classed a “war criminal”. In other words, his signature on the Agreement pretty much serves to rebut any claim of his being a “war criminal”.

  • Slappy: Have you heard of Radovan Karadžić and Slobodan Milošević, both late of the former Yugoslavia and of the Hague. I am sure Mr taylor and other Africans would also do. Some such as Kissinger have got the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Adams needs adulation. He needs the popular mandate to exorcise the childhood and adult hood demons within.

    Most serial killers were abused as children. Sad but no defence really. Milošević has a tough upbringing.Sad but no defence really.

    Here is Adams’ form of Riverdance:
    http://www.herald.ie/national-news/adams-is-now-lsquodancing-on-mum-jeanrsquos-graversquo-2539597.html

    a form his supporters admire.

  • 241934 john brennan

    Slappy
    Gerry Adams did not sign the GFA. No one in SF lifted a pen to sign that Agreement. Neither did they lift a finger to secure a “YES” vote in the all-Ireland referendum: They did not even put up a poster or issue a leaflet advising the electorate how to vote

    Like reform of the RUC, SF waited until the SDLP did all the heavy lifting. Then after the big “YES” vote in the referendum, they somersaulted on their Stormont absentionist policy – and were among the first to sign on for pay cheques (or as the Dissidents said “take the Queen’s shilling”) – but maintained their “not a bullet, not an ounce” policy – until Paisley threatened to pull the house down, with no one getting paid anything – so another quick somersault on decommissioning, with support for the police.

    The “Brits out” policy is now “MI5 in”.

    So as usual John Hume was right – The divisions in Ireland, and between Ireland and Britain can be resolved by peaceful politics, without spilling a single drop of blood – a position SF now apparently accepts – at least until it does another somersault.

  • slappymcgroundout

    john:

    “In February, however, the party returned to the negotiations (known as the Stormont Talks) and became a signatory of the agreement reached on Good Friday, 10 April 1998. It secured 18 of the 108 seats in the new Northern Ireland Assembly, elected in June 1998.

    Sinn Fein on 10 May 1998 decided to opt for involvement in a new Northern Ireland government. A special ard fheis voted overwhelmingly in favour of changing the party’s decades-old constitution. The vote cleared the way for Sinn Fein members, for the first time in their history, to take their seats in the new Belfast assembly which would be established under the Good Friday agreement. The party also decided, by a large majority, to call for a ‘Yes’ vote in the two referendums, north and south, which were to be held on the agreement on 22 May.”

    John Hume was otherwise the polite face that Unionists could accept. His acceptance was as essential as the agreement of the Quakers is to a cessation of hostilities.

  • JB and Slappy, your descriptions seem overly abbreviated 😉

    There was a referendum in NI [Do you support the agreement reached in the multi-party talks on Northern Ireland and set out in Command Paper 3883?] and in Ireland [Do you approve of the proposal to amend the Constitution contained in the undermentioned Bill, the Nineteenth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 1998?]

    It’s my understanding that SF delegates signed the Agreement but PIRA didn’t. Mowlam’s description would indicate that the Army Council was in the building at the time.

    Hume appears to have been used to provide cover for Haughey during the discussions on the Stepping Stones ‘Brits Out’ process formulated by Alec Reid’s Redemptorists in association with others.

    The original Hume 3-strand analysis is more or less as you’ve described it, JB ie Dublin would speak for the island of Ireland in Strand 3. Trimble’s input radically altered the nature of Strands 1 and 3 ie they include the Unionist aspiration and a range of other possible relationships.

    The police service is more representative but its ability to apply the law without let or hindrance is limited by political constraints as well as by the risk of paramilitary attack. It’s currently below the strength recommended by Patten, particularly in the lower ranks, and there seems to be a deliberate policy to hide the deficit from public scrutiny.

  • “Gerry Adams has given his answer and that’s the end of it as far as I’m concerned.”
    So, if, as most decent people believe, Gerry Adams was a member of PIRA, where does that leave the credibility of Martin McGuinness, who has been implicated in Claudy, in the treacherous murder of Derry IRA men and whose family were behind the notorious Patsy Gillespie human bomb atrocity.
    The GFA Agreement which copper fastened British rule notwithstanding, British agents do not belong in Irish parliaments. Gerry Adams should stay in Wst Belfast, not lord it over the area where Jean McConville was buried like a dog on the orders of a coward who could not even own up that she had been murdered.