George Soros believes new Irish government will renege on Bondholder guarantee……

Gerry Adams has had a bit of a going over here on Slugger (ahem, and on last night’s Newsline). However when you get to this point in one of the threads we get to an interesting nub, isn’t burning the bondholder exactly what Ireland needs to dom in order to return to an equitable position?

George Soros certainly thinks that’s what the new Irish government will do soon after it gets elected. Now what could possibly have put that idea into his head? If it wasn’t Gerry, was it someone in Fine Gael or Labour?

  • wild turkey

    Mick

    The Soros article was in the FT back in mid December 2010 pre the Gerry financial economics lectures. Because of paywalls etc, you probably can’t provide a direct link to the actual FT article. however to further discussion on this, the nub of his argument is quoted below.

    most of what i have read indicates that the “markets” have already priced in the probability of a default.

    To default, or not to default? that is the question.

    where the f is mack? his insights might prove useful or provacative on this issue.

    According to Soros, the markets have already assumed Ireland will default, and have priced that into their calculations, which is why the “bailout” made no difference to interest rates.

    ” The authorities are making at least two mistakes. One is that they are determined to avoid defaults or haircuts on currently outstanding sovereign debt for fear of provoking a banking crisis. The bondholders of insolvent banks are being protected at the expense of taxpayers. This is politically unacceptable. A new Irish government to be elected next spring is bound to repudiate the current arrangements. Markets recognise this and that is why the Irish rescue brought no relief. Second, high interest rates charged on rescue packages make it impossible for the weaker countries to improve their competitiveness vis-à-vis the stronger ones. Divergences will continue to widen and weaker countries will continue to weaken. Mutual resentment between creditors and debtors is liable to grow and there is a real danger that the euro may destroy the political and social cohesion of the EU.

    Both mistakes can be corrected. With regard to the first, emergency funds ought to be used to recapitalise banking systems as well as to provide loans to sovereign states. The former would be a more efficient use of funds than the latter. It would leave countries with smaller deficits, and they could regain access to the market sooner if the banking system were properly capitalised. It is better to inject equity now rather than later and it is better to do it on a Europe-wide basis than each country acting on its own. That would create a European regulatory regime. Europe-wide regulation of banks interferes with national sovereignty less than European control over fiscal policy. And European control over banks is less amenable to political abuse than national control.”

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    I hope George Soros is right. Default!

  • joeCanuck

    Be careful what you wish for.

  • pippakin

    I would be very surprised if a wily old fox like Soros took any advice from anyone in current Irish political circles, especially Gerry Adams. Soros favours a world currency and for all I know he may be right, but it must colour his thinking and that is worth remembering, .

    A lot of people think default on the bank loans is inevitable, most of Ireland does and I think the vast majority would welcome it. The question is what comes next? and that is the question the Irish government should have a very clear plan on before defaulting.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Perhaps George has been tuning into Slugger and taking note of what the boul Alias(before he was run over by that bus) had been repeating thrice daily.

    Mind you it does not take a financial genius to work out that you cannot feast indefinitely on the carcass of a deceased tiger.

  • pippakin

    SammyMc

    I think Alias had a point and a genuine grievance. He is missed by anyone who values genuine opinion and not SF spin.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Pippers,

    “I think Alias had a point and a genuine grievance”

    I know nothing of his departure, under a bus or otherwise, I havent seen him about the place, but was drawing attention the fact that he happened to be right about Ireland’s economic ill-health.

  • Wheresmypassworditdoesntwork

    Apologies for the temporary name for some reason the log in refuses to accept Green flag any more and if it does it issues a barely legible password that can be read in any of four or more ways 🙁

    Greenflag comment

    Here’s Mr Soros up to date Jan 27th 2011 on bloomberg but don’t be gulled by the headline -There’s a lot of meat in what he says in the interview – with somewhat better news for Ireland – and more confident in the Euro while fearing the worst for the UK under it’s current policies – Despite some signs the of economic growth in the USA he sees it continuing as stop start .

    And surprise surprise Mr Soros comes out on the side of the Irish taxpayer stating unequivocally that there will have to be some eh ‘bondholder ‘ burning .

    You never know for once in their political history ‘timing ‘ may be on the side of FG – i.e a two to three years time .

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aaAYGZNR_rYc

  • Wheresmypassworditdoesntwork

    Re Alias -it’s possible he may have the same problem as I have trying to log in under Greenflag and just threw in the towel ? I’ll try to log in tomorrow again under Greenflag and if it doesn’t work it’ll be adios amigos .

    Btw am I the only slugger commenter with this issue ? Even the ‘upgrade profile ‘ link would only permit one entry for creating a new personal password while asking for 2 with nowhere to type it into ?

  • lover not a fighter

    Ireland will “Restructure” (default) its debts in time.

    Everybody knows that this is going to happen. If you ain’t got the money and you ain’t got no way of getting the money you “Restructure” (default)

    It was/is inevitable that this was going to happen from the start. We are just going through the charade so that the banks can continue as before. That afterall is what is most imortant to the bankers and their political stooges.

  • Mack

    Posted this on another thread in case you missed it –

    Business and Finance reporting FG & Lab in contact with US experts on debt restructuring.

    If you are paying 6% on debt at 150% of GNP and the only growth is anaemic, you don’t really have much choice.

    According to Bloomberg 53% of Davos attendees think Ireland default. Rising to 70% or so for Greece..

  • Mack
  • ORWELLSPEN

    Where is Alias and his theses on the nature of sovereignty?

  • Munsterview

    Itwas…..”Perhaps George has been tuning into Slugger and taking note of what the boul Alias(before he was run over by that bus) had been repeating thrice daily……”

    What ! You mean that Alias is not George Soros ?

  • Mack

    @Wild Turkey

    where the f is mack? his insights might prove useful or provacative on this issue.

    Thanks for compliment. Mad busy since the arrival of Mack jnr II.

    My thoughts on all of this –

    Ireland needs some or all of the following to happen

    Negotiate a better deal – e.g. a lower interest rate (I think the Germans were talking about this in exchange for constitutional change here), European funds to repay European bond holders (not an Irish loan), support for debt restructuring

    Some EU / Eurozone wide support mechanisms to be established which include resolutions for us – retrospectively if needs be – (e.g. euro-bonds which would reduce interest rate), European debt restructuring mechanisms, EU-wide banking recapitalisation etc. The ECB to keep interest rates low, allow inflation to rise slightly to aid the periphery (rather than focus on German needs alone).

    Debt restructuring (at a minimum bank debt, but possibly also sovereign debt too) preferably with the support of the EU & ECB (so that it doesn’t trigger Great Depresion mark II global debt deflation – see collapse of Credit Ansltalt, and the Irish banking can continue to have access to funding). Either that or funding of for a debt-to-gnp ratio well in excess of 100% needs to got from somewhere at super low interest rates..

  • Munsterview

    Well well ! It seems that Sinn Feins ‘madness’ that we heard so much about during Pearse Doherty’s election is rapidly becoming mainstream. John Bruton for goodness sake ?

  • Ireland will not ‘default’ unilaterally, but would think there is a strong likelihood of broad euroland restructuring. At the heart is the necessity for a transfer of resources within a single currency zone (from stronger to weaker growth regions) The short term – to 2013 – deal completed before Christmas buys time for the ECB and Berlin to work out exactly what they are going to do. That is, if the markets have patience.

  • ORWELLSPEN

    Prediction ; 2030ad. Fianna Fail Nua will be in power with Berty Og Og Og Ahern as Taioseach. The debt crisis will be forgotten as the country will be in the grip of Son of Celtic Tiger. If anyone thinks the forthcoming election will change anything, even politically, you are living in tir na cloud cuckoo. noone admits to supporting FF but remember noone publicly supported Thatcher but it was different when they were in a ballot booth. FF will have a shock win. Mark my words. The more we learn, the more we forget and the less we remember.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    ORWELLSPEN,

    A certain Mr Patrick Power will be delighted to entertain you on his premises.

  • ORWELLSPEN

    Mr Power will be crying on Feb 26th when I walk into his shop. Why? Enda Kenny. Ever seen or heard him? If you have, you will understand. Plus he used the ‘N’ word if you believe what Wikipedia says. Also, half his front bench voted against him 2 years ago so why do they support him now? FG are unprincipled rubbish. FF were just caught holding the parcel when the music stopped. Mr Martin had the air and style of decency, honour and contrition.

  • ORWELLSPEN
  • Tochais Síoraí

    Get yourself to a bookie if you really believe that, Orwell or take my cheap advice and invest your money elsewhere.

    There will be no shock win for FF nor anything remotely close. I know what you’re saying about Thatcher but this is a different time and a very different place. Martin’s accession will have saved them a few seats but they are f***ked. Right now if you offered them 35 seats they’d bite your hand off. And long term even with an electorate with the collective memory of a goldfish I’m not sure they’re a runner either becaue they’ve taken a serious hit in the last two council elections and if there’s one thing a clientelist party needs it’s local water carriers.

    The only way is down and hoofukkingray for that.

  • Munsterview

    I called it right with Martin : I say that not to collect brownie points but to point out that I may have some insights into Munster Fianna Failed. Because of cultural and other interfaces I regularly meet ordinary FF members and supporters.

    When the building boom folded there was a thirty something generation that never knew a poor day, or much less provided for one caught with only the equivalent of 100 days pay, if that in actual cash, everything else was in plastic. The subcontractors and their employees went to the wall, then the small independent contractors who were builders, not developers went followed by the builders/developers and then the big guys started to fall like kingpins.

    All of these were Fianna Fail Financiers and supporters, all local regionals carry stories of some of this background supported by the Vincent De Paul. One recent story concerns a builder developer that up to two years ago was worth 30,million, now he could not raise 30 thousand…. or even thirty euros, that is the stark reality

    To day the son of a home friend committed suicide to day. He got married last year, his wife was working part time, he was trying to start a business and it just would not take off. So it all became too much. He is just another number to all but his family and community. The person that conveyed the news to me was pouring expletives about FF and what they did to the country down the phone to me.

    Not too many votes for FF now, that tragic death and funeral will easily cost them a few hundred in that area and extended family…… if they were not already gone that is.

    I posted elsewhere that Martins election would give FF a floor of about 12% : Bertie in his clash with a left candidate outside Leinster House wiped off that gain and once again reminded the people of what FF were really like at top level. Noel Wheelan, political commentator knows politics, he was a player himself. He has been repeating a mantra, there is no floor under how far Fianna Fail can fall for months and he has been proven right with every opinion polls so far.

    There is no magic in these predictions, in a tree seater FF needs 25% of the vote on first count, in a four seater they need 20% and in a five seater they need around 16.5%. FF had a good election, they had 71 seats outgoing. FF and Lab on current figures will have something like 105 incoming. Add in the additional losses to Sinn Fein and the left and the party are heading for nothing short of disaster.

    I have tramped door to door for decades. Sinn Fein was used to the underdog position and could carry out a canvass in good spirits. I left doors happy with a promise of a third or fourth preference, just as long as long as the taboo of not voting Sinn Fein was broken. I have also seen mainstream party candidates loose it and go through the motions, so unsettled that they could not even share a pint with each other at the end of the night.

    Fianna Fail is now regarded by one and all as Fianna Failed. Their canvassers are going through the motions. FF households are often the most angry and betrayed in an estate, they are getting it on the neck even from their own people. They will not turn that perception of failure around for this election and whether or not it can be turned around for the following election is debatable.

  • ORWELLSPEN

    I’m sorry to hear about your friend MV.

  • Munsterview

    Orwell :

    thanks ! Only a couple of hours fitful sleep last night, which is more than his poor parents, wife and child from a previous relationship got or will get for the next couple of weeks.

    I do not want to give the impression that it is all doom and gloom. One of my sons had the foundation for a one off design house last week. He has been working almost constant overtime for years up to the end of last year. His fiancee too came from farming background and also had a restrained lifestyle, she is in the medical profession and promoted into a good 9 to 5 job last year after years of training and long hours working at the coalface. They had a choice of three mortgages on offer to them.

    I have a daughter in hotel management, she is in Scotland. My son on qualification some years back, choose a good solid multinational and drove a car that cost € 1,000, and saved his wages my daughter had plenty hotel job openings here but both believed me about the house of cards finances and she build her career with a good solid International hotel chain and had her regular promotions.

    In another two years she can come back to any top job of her choice on her own terms with an unbroken carreer behind her, few in the shattered hotel industry here will have anything remotely like the same CV

    My children are not unique . All did not loose their heads and become slaves to the boom economy in fact most did not. Few, very few of Irelands farming or small village and town business families got caught up in the speculation boom. The vast majority of the people were not involved in the Celtic Tiger madness and some of their children who did are now back home on gone to England, Australia, Canada etc.

    All however from the very poorest in minimum wages are expected to pay for the excesses of the few who blew all, the crony capitalists friends of Lenihan, Cowen and the top few in FF who made it big and blew all. This is why the position of FF is unsalvageable and why their support will shrink to their core base.

    Almost every docked pay packet is another Anyone-But-Fianna-Fail vote. They really are facing wipe out. They had their group FF parliamentary photo of the outgoing TD and Government yesterday. It is in to-days papers. Bertie is hidden away in the back in the last row five.

    That is how the mighty have fallen !

    I was in an urban housing estate earlier in the week and listened to a FF canvass up the street. It is a middle class settled area, middle aged area. They were lacerated and abused at every single door, in the neighborhood, the doors that were not banged in their faces that is. I was visiting, I do not know the make up of the local FF but the Minister For State concerned had only college kids types accompanying him.

    The FF election experienced Fianna Fail foot troops in the over thirty age groups are, by in large, sitting this one out. Most of the children and grandchildren I know of the FF founding fathers and fine women of that generation are not going out and are this time round voting SF or others.By the weekend next weekends sunday papers, the horror stories and true extent of the FF canvass collapse will be evident.

    Lenihans and Cowens mantra on the IMF loans : no better terms are available, this is the deal we had to sign. Fine Gael are already in negotiations with their European colleagues to reduce the interest payments and change the terms of the loans. They will probably succeed since FG and their European colleagues are all members of the same political grouping in the EU. That will be the final nail in the Fianna Failed re election coffin.

  • ORWELLSPEN

    MV, if FF are wiped out, I cannot see a FG/lab coalition as that would mean a SF opposition ie SF alternative government. I can’t see FG letting that happen. It might well be a FG minority gov with Lab as nominal opposition just to stop that accolade going to SF

    I don’t know. I’ve lost faith in thevelectoratecyo know what’s good for them

  • Munsterview

    NEWS FLASH
    Election announced on Radio Na Gaeltach by Cowen, this morning. He is dis.of the Dail on Tuesday and going for a friday 25th election date!

  • Munsterview

    Orwell…..

    Your reasoning is not entirely misplaced !

    Since last spring there have been rumors circulating of a FF Dublin group centred on the Lenihans ( hense Brians invite to give last years Michael Collins oration ) and the Bruton camp to form a new center right party. Both groups of plotters proved inept but Connor Lenihans recent piece in the Evening Herald flew the last kite for this ended in his call for Fianna Fail Nua.

    If it do look like that there is a major swing to the Left, then the money/ political / power interface will show it’s hand and we will have an immediate announcement of a new party.

    So far the Fine Gael dissident TD front benchers crowd can smell the leather of their Minesterial Mercs and they are unlikely to break ranks unless the prospects are much better elsewhere.

    In these circumstances there well may be a real Left / Right divide.

    On my own experience I am putting the FF average currently around 10 % and it is probably lower. That is an election 12 to 15% and again on current figures they could come in behind Sinn Fein. However this is not a swing to Sinn Fein per se. much of the FF pissed off vote will return to FF next election….. if there is an FF to return to for the next election in a few years time.

  • Munsterview

    Orwell…..

    Your reasoning is not entirely misplaced !

    Since last spring there have been rumors circulating of a FF Dublin group centred on the Lenihans ( hense Brians invite to give last years Michael Collins oration ) and the Bruton camp to form a new center right party. Both groups of plotters proved inept but Connor Lenihans recent piece in the Evening Herald flew the last kite for this ended in his call for Fianna Fail Nua.

    If it do look like that there is a major swing to the Left, then the money/ political / power interface will show it’s hand and we will have an immediate announcement of a new party.

    So far the Fine Gael dissident TD front benchers crowd can smell the leather of their Minesterial Mercs and they are unlikely to break ranks unless the prospects are much better elsewhere.

    In these circumstances there well may be a real Left / Right divide.

    On my own experience I am putting the FF average currently around 10 % and it is probably lower. That is an election 12 to 15% and again on current figures they could come in behind Sinn Fein. However this is not a swing to Sinn Fein per se. much of the FF pissed off vote will return to FF next election….. if there is an FF to return to for the next election in a few years time.

  • Munsterview

    Oops! sorry for double post : do not know how that happened!

  • wild turkey

    Mack

    congrats and good luck with Mack Jr.

  • Munsterview

    Mack : likewise !

    Been there, wore the T shirt a couple of times…… One day they are all there and it seems that the hard slog will never end and the next they are all gone and you are left wondering where the time went.

    Worth it all though !

  • Greenflag

    Mack,

    Congrats on your future investment 🙂
    Try and keep him away from weather forecasting , economics, and political punditry

  • Greenflag

    MV,

    ‘if there is an FF to return to for the next election in a few years time.’

    Well we’ll know soon enough . I’m not enamoured of a simple left /right divide . Some might say such a divide is the first step necessary to finally bury the shades of a distant civil war and I can see that .

    But maybe Ireland needs to skip this supposed maturation of modern politics of the left/right divide . We’ve seen the demise of Thatcher’s ‘services economy’ dream and Blair’s ‘Cool Brittania’ The ‘third way’ and the ‘big society’ and here in Ireland -Dev’s ‘dream of comely maidens dancing at crossroads ( that is before they embarked on the emigrant’s ship)

    Here’s a reminder of Ireland’s ‘greatest’ man of the 20th century ‘ -english subtitles for non TV 4 viewers – and he was from the Co Down .

  • Greenflag

    ‘He had watched his homelaand struggle from poverty and stagnation to become the toast of Europe and then he had seen those hard won gains foolishly squandered. Yet despite his countrymen’s proclivities for such reverse alchemy-he remained defiantly optimistic, convinced that the Irish would regain the lost ground.

    ‘Down the years , it has been seen that although we can be as wrongheaded as anybody else , we do have a capacity to recognize when we’re going wrong’ said Whitaker . “I mean tacitly do so -we may not confess openly to our wrongdoing -but I think we learn from experience – and then we hopefully will re-emerge on the broad sunlit uplands ‘

    Excerpt from David Lynch’s interview with TJ Whitaker in Lynch’s book ‘ When the Luck of the Irish ran out ‘

    BTW -TK Whitaker is still going strong at 95 or thereabouts.

  • wild turkey

    greenflag and mack

    a bit off topic perhaps, but a quote from one of my main men.

    “The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    wild turkey,

    Elsewhere (see link below, para 2) I had remarked that after 10 episodes of the West Wing that quip was the only memorable line – I didnt realise they hadnt even written that one themselves.

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/01/03/help-me-with-the-west-wing-essential-viewing-or-party-political-broadcast/

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    Greenflag,

    re. Your login difficulties.

    Maybe best to email Mick as your posts are not showing here but show up in email notifications.

  • ItwasSammyMcNally

    from GreenFlag

    Author: Wheresmypassworditdoesntwork
    Comment:

    Apologies for the temporary name for some reason the log in refuses to accept Green flag any more and if it does it issues a barely legible password that can be read in any of four or more ways 🙁

    Greenflag comment

    Here’s Mr Soros up to date Jan 27th 2011 on bloomberg but don’t be gulled by the headline -There’s a lot of meat in what he says in the interview – with somewhat better news for Ireland – and more confident in the Euro while fearing the worst for the UK under it’s current policies – Despite some signs the of economic growth in the USA he sees it continuing as stop start .

    And surprise surprise Mr Soros comes out on the side of the Irish taxpayer stating unequivocally that there will have to be some eh ‘bondholder ‘ burning .

    You never know for once in their political history ‘timing ‘ may be on the side of FG – i.e a two to three years time .

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aaAYGZNR_rYc

  • Greenflag

    IWSMWDI,

    Thanks Sammy-no need to bother Mick the situation seems to have sorted itself – not sure why . It could have been an error on my part also .

  • Greenflag

    IWSMWDI,

    Back to Soro’s predictions -here’s some excerpts from David Malone author of ‘The Debt Generation ‘ and of blog site Golem XIV Thoughts for Jan 24th 2011-well worth a read for those who are still wondering WTF ?

    http://www.debtgeneration.org/index.php – go to blog tab for GolemXIV

    He is also interviewed on the Keiser report

    ‘Ireland was Germany’s off-shore tart’

    Now that Mr Cowen has lost control of his party, coalition and country, the Irish can expect to be bullied and hectored from all sides. It is more important than ever for Ireland to defend herself against the claims that she owes the rest of us. She doesn’t.

    Every European bank exposed to Irish loans, every bond holder holding Irish debt – both bank and sovereign, and every foreign central bank concerned for the solvency of its own banks will start to crank up a barrage of propaganda and threats. It will be top of everyone’s propaganda agenda to make sure the Irish election offers no choices that could destabilize the unexploded ordinance of European bank insolvency.

    The European financial class will be desperate to ensure that the Irish have an election that is carefully constrained so as not to offer anything that might actually help them. As far as the banks, the ECB and all the leaders of nations whose banks would suffer losses if Ireland were to default or restructure, the Irish people are NOT to be exposed to ideas of default.

    Foreign leaders such as , Merkel, Olli Rehn, Barosso, Trichet and our British clowns, all with their own national interest, will give talks and be quoted in their papers about the need for steady fiscal responsibility and the unthinkable consequences of any waivering.

    If there is any rumbling of popular discontent, then scape goats will be found – people upon whom some anger can be harmlessly vented. But if that does not work then the rhetoric will get more pointed. Ireland will be reminded that ‘it’s their fault’ and they ‘have no one to blame but themselves’. In the German press any hint that Ireland may be thinking of restructuring will be met with dark reminders of how ‘Ireland’ in the form of Depfa had to be bailed out by Germany.

    In short I don’t think the Financial class is pleased that the politically unreliable (when it comes to European questions) Irish are going to have an election at this delicate time. I think the run up to the elections will involve a lot of propaganda designed to shout down any opposition to bail outs and debt payments.’

    end of excerpt

    I mentioned the Depfa connections a couple of months ago but it seems that the Irish media -the established media simply don’t want to know for fear of ?? – an already angry electorate becoming even more so .

    One commenter notes

    ‘What they’re doing in Ireland now, though, is similar to what was tried (it failed) in the US, when the lame duck congress tried to pass social security “reform.” Voting after the election, but before the newly elected members had taken office, the aim was to avoid having anyone held responsible for the vote.

    Those who’d lost reelection wouldn’t pay, and everyone else figured in 2 years time (next election) no one would remember. So in Ireland the period between governments is a perfect time to pass unpopular legislation. The gall, the nerve, they have to do this is almost to be admired for its sheer brazenness.”

    GF comment –

    And as FG and Labour scurry to pass the Finance Bill and the Senate is expedited – the banks and EU politicians and ECB bankers breathe sighs of relief . And as if to confirm the trend new FF leader Michael Martin in a move of ‘craven’ so called responsibility has offered to support a ‘minority FG Government as it would be in the ‘national ( i.e bankers) interest. So even before the election Gilmore’s Labour party have been neutered . MV hinted at such a development earlier this week .

    For the Irish people’s interest (as opposed to the interest their previous government, or the banker’s , or even the next government FG/Lab – the best result and I’ve thought long and hard about this would be for FF to be exterminated at the polls -i.e 0 seats and for FG/Labour to win a working majority but with SF to have enough seats so that if FG are not successful or are unwilling to renegotiate the ‘national slavery’ that is the current ECB/IMF deal -then Labour can ‘walk ‘ and then go to the country with a Lab /SF/ Taxpayer’s Independents grand coalition – versus the Banker’s parties (FG+ FF + RC church + ECB)

    The ‘extermination’ of FF at the polls would send a very loud message to the ECB and the IMF that -Ireland could be on it’s way to default in the wake of which will be dragged down many German , French and British banks who are presently ‘salivating’ at the prospects of getting the Irish taxpayer to pay for their corporate malfeasance , gambling and recklessness .

    Now

  • Greenflag

    correction to above

    In retro ‘extermination of FF ‘ sounds harsh when what I meant to say was ‘representational wipe out ‘in the Dail . FF will suffer for their misgovernance , incompetence and lack of global economic nous at the polls – and FG/Lab will take up the reins where FF left them and this virtually without any substantive debate on the ‘choice’ facing the Irish electorate .

    Here’s Malone ‘explaining ‘ the British ‘bail out ‘ of Ireland as it works in practice . You simply have to add on similar for the German & French ‘bail outs’ of Ireland to see how the bankers -Rotschilds /Goldman Sachs etc etc end up with the ‘money’ while Irish , British and American taxpayers -get it in the neck .

    Meanwhile in the ‘free market ‘ world governments from the USA to the UK to Ireland and Germany are running scared of the 1% who are determining how so called ‘democratic ‘ states should function i.e at the beck and call of the international bond market .

    With the Middle East now facing more inevitable political unrest from Tunisia to Egypt and perhaps further – much of it a response to American foreign policy in the region – perhaps Ireland and some other EU countries should consider ‘default ‘ failing reform of the EU banking sector and renegotiation of the terms of the so called ‘bail out’ of Ireland which was 70% or more the ‘bail out ‘ of German , French and British banks and bondholders from across the globe.

  • lover not a fighter

    Best not too pay off the debts of out of control gamblers.

    It only encourages them and we would’nt want to do that would we !

  • Greenflag

    When the out of control gamblers turn out under closer examination to have been the biggest banks whose recklessness and greed has brought not just the Irish or Icelandic but the world economy to chaos aided and abetted by sycophant politicians of the left and right then you have a point .

    As the world’s economic elite gathjer for their annual Davros Gala don’t expect any ‘reform ‘ or ‘repentance ‘ for the looting of the past decade . Between the hors’ doeuvres and the entrees and the Dom Perignons there will be earnest discussions about the next big bubble – gold or Chinese or Canadian property markets and how best to ‘cream off’ anything that may be going.

    But the good news is that the Icelanders are now investigating the role of certain individuals in their Central Bank and I believe are ‘jailing ‘ some bankers .

    BTW they don’t need encouragement -bankers are not dissimilar to serial killers . Give them the slightest opportunity and or reduce or better still get some bribable or tame financial ‘regulators ‘ and they’ll be off on another round of pillage and mayhem.

    The case for Irish taxpayers or indeed German or British or American taxpayers having to pay for the gambling losses of the ‘banks’ regardless of their country of origin has not yet been ‘explained ‘-Nor will it be . Neither FG nor Labour want to and of course FF have ‘ignored ‘ the question or can’t or would rather not answer it .

    Nor is the establishment ‘media’ raining the real issue .
    Perhaps their paymasters would rather they did’nt ?