As the FF tide goes out will the SF boat rise?

With Mick and many others doing serious political analysis based on polls and the DWS by-election, I thought’d I’d drag up some old election results for the discussion.

While one seat or poll does not make an electoral summer, SF members clearly feel the sun on their backs and few would argue with them.

If their difficulties with transfers diminish and they do poll over 10%, how far could they go? One indicator might be looking at the return for parties getting around 10% 1st preferences since 1977. The general trend is, if you poll around 10% and aren’t transfer abhorent you return 15-20 TDs.

Of course that would be beyond anything seriously expected from SF (the TDs not percentage) but if they do poll above 10% they must surely be looking more likely to have 15 seats than their current four?

1977

Lab 11.6% – 16 seats

1981

Lab 9.9% 15 seats

1982

Lab 9.1% 15 seats

1982

Lab 9.4% 16 seats

1987

PDs 8.4% 14 seats
Lab 7.2% 12 seats

1989

Lab 9.1% 15 seats

1997

Lab 10.4% 17 seats

2002

Lab 12.7% 20 seats

2007

Lab 12.1% 20 seats

UPDATE:

Back in January Harry McGee in the Irish Times finished an analysis of SF’s situation with:

There are some who believe Sinn Féin is in terminal decline, like other republican parties that preceded it. Despite the party’s current woes, that view is as far-fetched as the party winning 20 seats or more anytime soon.

His kicking off point had been:

A DECADE ago, Sinn Féin strategist Jim Gibney made the audacious prediction it would make spectacular strides in the South, with the number of TDs reaching respectable double figures (many took that as 20-plus or 30-plus) within two decades.

Jim Gibney might end up right but for the wrong reason yet.

, ,

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    A lot depends on distribution of the percentages.
    Labour dont touch all 43 constituencies (eg Donegal SW)
    Sinn Féin touches fewer (eg Donegal SW).
    So Id expect SFs vote to be more localised and not really translate into seats. For example Labour can reach the Midlands and South East in a way SF cannot.

    But your overall premise is correct. FF is vulnerable on three fronts. Its working class voters or “state employee vote” will drift to Labour, its “business” vote to FG and its republican element to SF.

  • Cormac Mac Art

    Maybe I’m wrong, but I cannot see SF doing so well. Just because FF will lose votes does not necessarily mean SF will gain. I would be suprised if they don’t gain a few more seats, but the party south of the border was demoralised in the wake of the last election. This led to the departure of some of the party’s best and brightest. To the best of my knowledge, they have not been replaced.

    On a purely objective point of view, I’m fascinated by the party’s possible preformance in the election. They may yet suprise us all.

    However, in the event that they do not preform as well as expected, I sincerely hope this leads to a much-need period of real soul-searching, Something fundamental is needed for them to become a real force in southern politics. Otherwise, they will just become a greener Fianna Fail.

  • Mark McGregor

    FJH,

    I don’t have a premise, yet. Just mentioning previous results.
    With current candidates and form I could identify 10 seats as winnable for SF – I can’t easily spot another five even if they polled 15%+ nationally.

    Also, I’d expect with FF faring so badly Labour and FG will now turn towards attacking SF to diminish their transfer potential. SF and the possibility of them getting decent transfers could jeopardise more seats for FG/Lab than FF are likely to threaten?

  • Framer

    Watch out for the unthinkable – a FF/FG government.

    That is the only non-public sectorist alliance available if the Dail is stuffed with ultra-lefts and Shinners plus Labour newbies elected on a radical manifesto.

  • medillen

    Cormac, you are wrong. Possibly, for the reasons that FHJ points out about lack of structure or candidates in certain areas, that the seat gain may not be as big as it could be. But your assumption about demoralisation and lack of new talent in the south is wrong. Sinn Fein’s project in the twenty six counties is on the move.

  • Mark McGregor

    Blog updated with something I just remembered.

  • james

    Mark, I’d disagree, its what Labour do next that matters, stay centralist or shore up the left, FG’s battle is still with FF.

    Not just you, but many others, I don’t understand the ‘lack of candidates’ theory for SF, apart from sitting TDs I don’t see any hidden talent anywhere and for FF they have a lot of sitting TDs er ‘retiring’

    Yes several inheriting family candidates from the mainstream parties coming onboard but is that a surething anymore.

    Politics in Ireland are in turmoil North and South, SF are one of a few parties that can deal with that, that can put people on the street to go house to house.

    FG in DSW a prime example, young Barry comes from good republican stock, joining FG was a career move not conviction, its the same in a lot of places, will the career FFers, FGers, amd Laber’s pound the streets don’t think so, however to be an independent or SFer thats conviction, people with conviction will do the do.

    Also, people struggle to tell FF and FG apart, the FG vote is protest, Labour appear to have nicked SF’s alternative budget, SF are the one party seen to go against the accepted norm,

    Finally, SF don’t feel the sun on their backs, possibly surprised at people publically supporting them, esp if you scan threads on P.ie, but as you know its the long game, fortunately (sic) Irelands fu*ked for the longterm so no hurry,

    If you build it, they will come (The Republic)

  • Alias

    Fitz is right about where the FF republican vote is most likely to go but only insofar as a rump of it would never vote for FG (grandfathers turning in their graves and all that) but I’m not convinced this is a proper group in that it doesn’t have any distinct economic agenda and so it will more likely default to other parties based on a left/right devide.

    It’s the eurosceptic voters that are wholly uncatered for with both FF and FG and Labour so PSF is the only option here. This is where, I suspect, that the vote is transferring to the Shinners. The EU, after all, is our real government, and that is coming through to the voters like never before.

  • PaddyReilly

    I find this all a bit like house prices. There are loads of people out there who just cannot get their heads around the idea that their houses are not worth what they were two years ago. Similarly there are plenty of people who cannot imagine that the former support for the currently popular parties has evaporated.

  • medillen

    Some thoughts on costituencies within their grasp.

    Louth
    Kerry North
    Kerry South
    Cavan Monaghan 2 seats
    Donegal SW 2 seats
    Donegal North East
    Dublin South Central
    Dublin Central
    Dublin South West
    Wexford
    Waterford
    Cork South Central
    Meath West
    Sligo
    Sligo/S Leitrim

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    Its still way too early.
    I spent a cheerful morning looking at the Slugger O’Toole archive (Jan-May election) and some of those predictions are laughable.

  • Mark McGregor

    medillen,

    Thanks for that, there are 13 credible wins there to my eyes – one or two I’d overlooked personally. I’m afraid I don’t see any 2 seat constituencies yet for SF but I’d agree both those noted should have 2 candidates to return one with an eye on the future.

  • Mark

    The class divide in this country has disapperaed . The days of describing Sinn Fein as a bunch of howya’s is over. The fomer middle classes are begining to realise the sham is over .My maternal grandfather was british army . My mother was born and reared in Dublin , went to college got drunk and married my father . Got her nails done twice a week , shopped in Brown thomas , played hockey for leinster ( not in that order ) was lady captain in the golf club and in january she will vote Sinn Fein !

  • medillen

    On the two seat issue I agree its a big ask, but on the most recent election in Donegal SW with almost 40% of the first preference votes and an excellent transfer rate, as well as the last poll showing a further slide in FF vote, it is not unrealistic but close. In Cavan Monaghan I would argue the chances are even better.

  • Angry Planner

    Looking at the FF poll ratings I can’t help but think of the way the Italian Christian Democrats imploded 20 years ago. How likely is it that FF could suffer a similar fate? I heard an analysis on Morning Ireland that on these figures FF would only have 2-3 TD’s in Dublin one of the casualties being Brian Lenihan, Ahern has announced he’s quitting, how safe is Micheal Martin down in Cork? The nightmare for FF must be that the defeat is so immense that like the Tories in 1997 they are left without sufficient big beasts to be an effective opposition.

    Forget about FF being a junior partner in government, they are so toxic that no one will want to touch them for a long while.

  • medillen

    Seat projection analysis on the Red C Poll by an analyist in the south.

    http://irishpollingreport.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/231/

  • Mark McGregor

    AP,

    Before thinking FF will go the way of Democrazia Cristiana remember it wasn’t that long after their demise many of their members were part of the rise of the PdL and the perpetuation of gombeen populism under a new flag.

  • Mark

    Mark McGregor – Mark they say ” never go back ” but would you ? and if so , what makes you think that they would have you . Posted in jest.

  • andnowwhat

    I really can nopt see any sense in predictions as these are a unique time but I predict a serious print media attack (yes, I know it began just over a week ago) against SF.

    I hope SF do really well (by their standards) not because I support them but because the republic has been in need of a kick up the arse for as long as I can remember.

    The FF/FG faux battle has held the state back for almost a century now.

    Ironiic that the political wing of the provos might help in finalising the civil war..

  • Blair

    “Finally, SF don’t feel the sun on their backs, possibly surprised at people publically supporting them, esp if you scan threads on P.ie”

    Yeah, I wonder if they are surprised by the people publicly big upping them on Slugger? I somehow doubt it,

  • Mark

    Feeling the heat Blair ?

  • Mark McGregor

    Blair,

    I hope you don’t think this entry is ‘big upping’.

    I’m hoping some socialists, of whatever persuasion, win seats.

    I may ‘big up’ the ULA or Independents at some point.

  • Alias

    If the Shinners ride a wave to anything over 16 seats, the odds are that they’ll fill those seats with a lot of dismal rejects. It’s easy to hide 5 muppets in a crowd of 166 but not so easy when you have a larger number of them embarrassing themselves. That ‘success’ will have most likely backfired on them by the election after the next one.

  • Mark

    So Alias , it’s gone from they have’nt a chance come january to well even if they get in , they’ll make a bollix of it so we ( the blowins ) will be grand. Alias , it’s alot harder to hide your hate than it is to hide kermit and miss piggy .

  • joeCanuck

    Anything is possible electorally, I guess (viz the once formidable UK Liberal party) but, can a boat with a big hole in the bottom, Mountbatten’s boat even, rise with a turn of the tide?

  • medillen

    Are you suggesting Pearse Doherty or Padriag MacLochlain or Joanne Spain etc are muppets who need to be hidden?

  • andnowwhat

    I am with Mark Mc G on this.

    I remember watching a Foghorn Layhorn cartoon years ago. As one may recall, he was always fightiong with a dog. In this cartoon a horn goes off and they finish a shift and Foghorn and the dog have a nice, friendly chat.

    That is exactly how I see politics in the republic. You couldn’t put a cigarette paper between the 2 opportunist parties.

  • joeCanuck

    To extend the metaphor, you can get a boat to rise a bit if you jettison some of the garbage cluttering up the deck.

  • Mark McGregor

    andnowwhat,

    I’m glad to hear you are with me – let me know where both of us are. I have no idea.

  • Alias

    Mark, I have never hidden the fact that I detest the Shinners. I also intend to vote for them. However, there is no contradiction there at all: just a lack of options.

    Also, the 5 TDs they had are accepted as muppets (despite being hidden in a crowd). More TDs are likely to be of even lower quality, so don’t expect that sin to go unpunished.

  • Mark McGregor

    btw: I’ve asked on Twitter but feel free to help here:

    Give me a list of political parties that defined their state for decades eg Ireland (FF), Mexico (PRI), Italy (CD)

    – others?

  • Mark

    Mark Mcgregor – Blair , ” i hope you don’t think this entry is big upping ……………… I may big up the ula or Independants at some point ” So what ? you’re the rain maker now Mark are you .

  • joeCanuck

    Mark,
    There’s a whole bunch of them if you include communists parties and dictatorships.. Presumably you are excluding them.

  • andnowwhat

    That a socialist based party has success Mark Mc G.

    When the money was coming in, the goverment could have chosen to be Sweden, they chose to be the Chanel Islands instead.

  • Mark

    Alias – Why bother to vote for them at all then ?

  • acrowley

    The same people who failed to predict the crash, are busy tring to predict an election…

  • joeCanuck

    Alias,

    I used to wonder you might vote for; even may have had the cheek to have asked you once.
    From your philosophy, I guest the least worst is the best way to go.

  • Mark

    Joe Canuck – the mountbatten comment has all the hallmarks of a reluctant closet republican . BTW what colour nighty are you wearing tonight , joke joe joke.

  • joeCanuck

    Same as always, Mark, the one I got for my birthday.

  • Alias

    “Alias – Why bother to vote for them at all then ?”

    Because if the Shinners weren’t in Dáil Éireann then 166 out of 166 TDS would have voted for the Lisbon Treaty while more than half the voters voted against it, so that is a massive disjunction between the people and the parliamentarians. 16 PSF TDs is 16 less europhiles in Dáil Éireann. I’ve decided to use my vote to vote against Europhiles, so that eliminates all parties except PSF.

  • Munsterview

    I agree with Paddy Reilly but I would would go further, the ‘talking heads’ and political pundits are not objectively analyzing this, how could they, most have been either openly running down Sinn Fein for years or else sniping away at it from the sidelines.

    I have already frequently pointed out in non Dublin Ireland, at parish and village level FF and SF work side by side and have a shared ethos in the GAA, Comhtals, the Credit Unions, school boards etc. In the old days when republicans were shipped off as regular as clock work for their month inside for Easter Lily sales, FF neighbors pitched in to help in the farms and business.

    Yes politically they boycotted and shafted Sinn Fein but they did the same thing in Kerry to the great Mick Dwyer when he was in politics, the details are in a previous post, but both sides understood this, that was business. I have a clear recall of the tally boxes prior to the hunger strike when the FF votes were 1, 2, 3, FF and the other ten candidates left blank ! At that time a mixed marriage in rural Ireland was FF & FG offspring defying their parents and marrying !

    With prisoner and other issues now resolved, the conflict lines are not there to the same extent and the lines are blurred. The may sharpen up at election time but the SF in the sin bin days are well gone. The fact that this situation is not factored in by the ‘Dublin 4 Talking Heads’ do not mean it is not there. The first time Healy Rae stood for election, I took a sweet £50 off a National reporter who had been to Killarney and still could not see the Healy Rae machine or where Jackie was coming from.

    Jackie, as a former stage performer was the consummate show man and by God to see that man work a crowd of teenagers at a disco was something else. I have sat with Jackie and other back-room people discussing trends local and national in intricate technical detail, yet a half an hour later I have watched him being interview while doing his ‘straight from the bogs act’ The press loved it….. so did Jackies public who see him sending up the Media to their face without they being aware of it!

    Jackie had masterminded O’Donoghues victories, he had forgotten more about back-room politics, tactics and strategies, that the ‘pundits’ would ever learn. One story I heard of his leg pulled about ‘the cap’ he took it off with kissed and said solemnly ” well I’ll tell ye all something now, they day they will stop talking about that cap, is the day they will start talking about me like the rest of ye’, that cap is doing its business” and he put it back on.

    There is an Ireland ‘that the stranger do not know’, it is the Ireland they do not want to know of, it is about to speak and many will not like what they hear ! The taboos of voting for SF are well gone, in recent weeks in academic circles more and more people are telling me that they will vote SF the next time out. There is still a way to go to the election but it is looking good.

    However shell shock and weather have masked the true mood of the public : it is either going to stay passive or totally explode. Any bets anyone on which?

  • Mick

    FJH,

    That was the premise of my earlier post. But go on, entertain us!!

  • Mark

    OK alias – asked and answered , fair enough .

  • Mark

    Joe Canuck – glad to see after 20 yrs in canada , you have’nt lost your sense of humour.

  • medillen

    Therefore comments on my earlier link puting SF on 26 seats by a self confessed Labour supporter and an excellent political analyist would be welcome?

  • John Ó Néill

    Medillen – I can see a few problems with that list.
    Unless Toireasa Ferris runs, Kerry South isn’t a likely gain. Two seats in Donegal SW is maybe too much of a stretch. Similarly, Wexford has been a trainwreck for a while despite a reasonable enough platform (ironically, I think John Brady in Wicklow has a much higher local profile and may be a better tip). Other possibilities would be Cork North Central, Dublin Mid West, Dublin North West with some longer shots in Laois-Offaly, Mayo and Waterford.

    Still, that makes 20 or so seats where there is enough of a platform for SF to meaningfully target a gain. All this is obviously theoretical (although those assumption are partly based on the last local elections as a guide) but its not like SF hasn’t had to do this sort of heavy lifting before, albeit in the north.

    What Mark didn’t point out (nor did any of the other posts on the Red C poll) is that previously the combined vote of Labour/Workers Party, SF and Greens has never exceeded that of eitherFF or Fine Gael in a general election.

  • Barry the Blender

    Ahh this thread is just a republican wet dream

  • medillen

    I agree John this projection is optimistic even if it is produced by a electronic projection by a credible analyist. Local health warnings are always credible. There is a long way to General election and many things could change. However I feel that, having broke through the glass ceiling for SF of 10-12% to the now 16% that there is the potential for that to move to nearer 20% in the pre-election period, with a GE in February/March. It is possible/likely in the current climate post Budget that the mess being made will incense the electorate even more. Therefore these predictions may not be as fancible as first thought.

  • PaddyReilly

    Of course it does not follow that the demise of Old Corruption parties has to benefit SF. There will be a lot of angry voters out there seeking to punish the establishment. ULA anyone? Greens seem to have spoiled their chances by snuggling too close to the Establishment. Seems like a good time to stand for the Oireachtas, if your party tag does not begin with an F.

  • Mark

    Give me a republican wet dream over an orange orgasm any day of the week .

  • Mick Fealty

    They both amount to pretty much the same thing Mark…

  • Munsterview

    Paddy,

    In another thread I said the start of the week I had an em from a regional newspaper editor that usually have plenty to say on everything and anything in our exchanges. This time just two brief lines, the first thanked me for material send on. the second….

    ” My heart is breaking for Ireland and it’s people ”

    No more. There are many fine people still in that position in the South, they are actually grieving. I cannot predict what will touch off the explosion, could be a call to Joe Duffy, a letter to the paper, another revelation of greed in official circles, whatever. It could be the budget, that seems to be getting people’s goat in a big way !

    However when that explosion happens there is no putting the genie back in the bottle. I think the reaction will even take SF by surprise. They had bloody better be prepared to give street leadership as if not they will find themselves off side with the rest of the political rejects!

  • Munsterview

    To lighten things for a moment, while it seems we could all be back on spuds three times a day again in the South, apparently there is an up side to that as well!

    https://mail.google.com/mail/h/ap87iusssaix/?v=c&th=12cac99df23757de.

  • Mark

    MIck Fealty – Atfer a republican wet dream you generally have severe memory loss but with the orange orgasm Mick you remember absolutely everthing .

  • Munsterview

    Off thread but what the hell, we need some cheer !Just remembered this from Irish central, they have got the ten best jokes on the recession. I particularly like no 4.

    4. Unknown wag: “Who will bail out the IMF when Fianna Fail have finished with them?”

    https://mail.google.com/mail/h/ap87iusssaix/?v=c&th=12cac99df23757de

  • becky

    sf have called off their protest in dublin today after failing to gather enough support.they are blaming the snow.a few years ago that would have made the weathermen legitimite targets

  • Mick Fealty

    mark,

    Dreams have their place. When there is news we report it/analyze it. If dreams is your thing, you’d be better off calling a *Freudian* therapist.

  • Sinn Féin = Fianna Fáil Lite

    Fianna Fáil + SF = new opposition
    My prediction:
    FF morph into Fianna Féin – the Soldiers of Self Interest.

  • Mark

    YEah Mick I think this have gone totally over your head , your missing the point but then again that was the plan all along . Bowl of milk for Mick Fealty .

  • Mick Fealty

    LOL!

  • Mark

    LOL x 2

  • Mark McGregor

    Just noticed this:

    “Mark McGregor – Mark they say ” never go back ” but would you ? and if so , what makes you think that they would have you . Posted in jest.”

    Now I get to LOL too. With all the previous talk of dreams why is a nightmare suggested for me?

  • Mark

    Just noticed that now Mark ? funny because you posted straight after it last night . No one suggested you go back Mark , far from it. But it’s nice to you the managment stick up for eachother. You really should read the posts in full Mark ( now where did i hear that before ) It wasn’t me who first mentioned dreams Marko and your the last person to .Speaking of nightmares , do you get many now that you’ve left the winning team ?

  • Mark

    Should read – but it’s nice to see the managment stick up for each other.

  • Mark McGregor

    Bizarre. Shinners complain for months that Slugger doesn’t cover good news stories for them and when a few actually occur and are covered they are on the site just as ranty and angry as always.

  • Mark

    Are you sure you are on the right thread there Marko . There was post saying this thread is a republican wet dream and I replied I’d rather a republican wet dream to an orange orgasm . Mick fealty then asked me why what’s the difference , i explained and Mick started to waffle about dreams having their place and maybe if dreams were my thing i should go see a freudian therapist ?? you having ignored my question last night suddenly found it and then replied that a rtn to Sinn Fein would be a nightmare ( sounded angry and ranty to me ) With regard to Sinn Fein stories , you site doesn’t really have a choice about covering SF stories seen as they are the Story and everyone is covering them. Don’t think you are doing SF a favour , as a form of media you would look pretty silly ignoring the party on everyone’s lips. In fact Mark that would be bizzare.

  • Munsterview

    ConC

    Sound Man Con ! You and people like you will have a few adjustments to make in the coming weeks and months just like your kind had to do post 1918 !

    I had an em from a regional news paper editor earlier this week. Instead of the usual gossipy page, just two lines. The first with a minimum of words thanked me for material send. The second simply said……… ” My heart is broken for Ireland and it’s people ”

    This from a person who make their living by words….. they had no words !

    Fianna Fail are not just a party of chancrs and gangsters. The majority of the grass roots care for their community and country. They are, as I keep repeating, the backbone of the GGA clubs, Comhtals, School Boards, Tidy Towwns and all the other voluntary, constant work that makes functioning communities possible. The same apply to rank and file FG and Labour.

    All party politicians cannot be dismissed as corrupt and uncaring either, in my forty years I have made and held friendships some across the party spectrum. I know what they do when they act collectively and the party whips are cracking, but as individuals many are caring decent people in public life out of genuine service.

    Likewise over the years through Summer Schools and other Cultural events I have met civil servant from all levels and all Departments. Many of these too want to do the best for their country. Behind closed doors in small groups, in full and frank exchanges I have again and again heard the things laid bare that stymie initiate and progress in the service and Country.

    We are not alone in this : across the water in conferences I meet the same cross section of people from UK society who have all the same problems, hardly surprising as both Civil Services came from the same source.

    This country is not corpus to the core : a large section of the bloody establishment is ! We should never loose sight of this fact.

    These were the sector of the Irish People that England handed over the Irish Nation to. With the assassination of Collins and the demise of the IRB they had a free hand. Between 1932 and 37 Dev, instead of clearing out these people, just added his own tried and tested to all departments and left the whole rotten show intact and unreformed.

    Grassroots Fianna Fail may well defect to Sinn Fein but Sin Fein itself needs to have a major mind shift. In the thirties the majority of FF did not enter politics with corrupt intentions, on the country anything but. The lesson are there, either Sinn Fein changes the system or the system changes Sinn Fein.

    As I wrote earlier to-day to a North American the next couple of days and weeks will tell it all, either the pot boils over and we will have real change or they will manage to get keep the lid on the pot and we will get tweedle dum changing to tweedle dee.

    This country of ours is not rotten to the core, we just need a renewal with real power in the hands of the communities that make this country work despite everything thrown at them. That and a clean out of the bastards that are rotten and that allowed the country to become rotten!

  • fordprefect

    Who cares how many seats sinn fein win? They will be (are) as bad (if not worse) than all the other parties in the free state, as witnessed here in the north, they will climb into bed with anyone for more power (and money) and won’t care who they hurt, especially the working class. I also object to sinn fein being referred to as republicans (as they threw off any vestige of republicanism years ago!). As for them being “left wing” or socialist, ditto!

  • Blair

    “Blair,

    I hope you don’t think this entry is ‘big upping’.

    I’m hoping some socialists, of whatever persuasion, win seats.

    I may ‘big up’ the ULA or Independents at some point.”

    Mark,

    Not at all. I understand and indeed respect your anti SF position. I was merely pointing out the stupidity of people announcing an upsurge in Sinner support on the back of pro Sinner posts made by drones on message boards and blogs.

  • You have a short memory, Munsterview. It isn’t too long ago when SF were breaking their legs – and abandoning a few principles (ie an increase in corporation tax) to try and get in bed with Fianna Fáil. You should thank your lucky stars that it was the Greens who bought that pup and not you – rather than issuing those little threats to ‘me and people like me’. Just remember, we’re voters not sheep. There isn’t much separating FF and SF – just a few decades. What I’ve seen of SF in the north has convinced me that it’s a variant of the FF virus. All about jobs for the boys and girls and all gong and no dinner about other stuff. It’s sole purpose is to serve its own interest and all the guff about United Ireland is just that, guff. Just wrapping the green flag around itself so people don’t see the poverty of its policies for all the greenery.

  • Mick Fealty

    Mark,

    I honestly thought you were being flippant, so I gave you a flippant reply.

    Are you seriously saying Slugger never marks SF’s successes? What about DSW? http://sluggerotoole.com/?s=Donegal+south+west (and take careful note of when we started our coverage).

    We try to call it like we see it (and encourage critics to do the same). When any party goes off piste we’re inclined to show it up, but I have no qualms at marking successes either.

    I’ve noticed a plaintive note creeping in with regard to the way the Dublin media treats the party. It’s the price of conducting politics within a representative democracy.

    You should not be entitled to pull the levers of power and control what your critics can and cannot say about how you do it.

  • Reader

    Munsterview: The second simply said……… ” My heart is broken for Ireland and it’s people ” This from a person who make their living by words….. they had no words !
    Their punctuation was a bit iffy too. Was he from the Andersonstown news?

  • Munsterview

    Reader,

    “…….
    Many thanks for this information.
    I will put an article together asap. My heart is broken for Ireland and its
    people.
    Kindest regards,…… ”

    Reader; I know this person, I had attended a cultural event they presented some weeks before. I see how proud they were to showcase the culture and inclusive history of their own Ulster region. The night truly represented Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter.

    Such things like honor, pride of race, of place and country may be only worth a sneer or a slag off to the type of people that landed us in this mess, and their fellow travelers, that only goes to show the dept. of their intellectual and spiritual poverty.

    We always had their kind on this island and always will. At the end of the day irrespective of how much damage they cause in the words of Scott they go “Into the vile dust from which they sprung, unwept, unhonored and unsung “while in the words of Joyce Kilmer “Poems and spears through out the years, spring up where patriot graves are found”

    A matter of choices I suppose, I have made mine and I do not envy the cynics and knockers theirs!

    Such pride do exist, as many in this Country are about to find out.

  • Munsterview

    Concubhar ” – rather than issuing those little threats to ‘me and people like me’”

    What little threats ? However I cannot blame you for being more than a little concerned. If and when the sea change comes, all will be black and white, no more grey areas.

    There will be those who made the corruption happen, those who allowed the corruption to happen and those who opposed that corruption happening in every way possible !

    I can now look my children and community in the eye, can you ?

  • Mark

    MIck re your last post , last night when i replied to the republican wet …… post and said I would rathe have a ……………. to an orange orgasm . You asked what the difference was . I joked with a rep wet dream you have memory loss ( gerry’s denials etc ? ) and with orange orgasm you forget anything ( whataboutery etc ) that was me explaining the joke i had made. I presumed you got the joke so when you post about me having problems with dreams and go see a shrink , i thought that was a weird reply and I posted accordingly. With regard to slugger I as i said before love it and have tuned in since you started. I never really posted until about six months ago because the anti sluugers on your site were going over the top. That’s not just my opinion Mick , alot of posters feel like that. With regard to you saying ” you should not be ……………….how you do it . That applies to all parties Mick and i have talked about a thin line between constructive critisiism and shit stirring . I think when the Thread is anti SF all rules go out the window . When the are pro SF they are fair until you get to the comments section. I note a jump of at least 30 % in SF posters and i think that has touched a raw nerve. I would like to continue this at a later date Mick if you are keen as my daughter has just woken up.

  • Reader

    Munsterview: Such things like honor, pride of race, of place and country may be only worth a sneer or a slag off to the type of people that landed us in this mess, and their fellow travelers, that only goes to show the dept. of their intellectual and spiritual poverty
    These days, “pride of race” always calls for a bit of scrutiny, if not an automatic sneer. We can unpick that a little in the light of your quote, if you wish.
    As for the wee snipe over the “people who landed us in this mess”. Not me. In Brown’s boom I lived within my means, paid off my mortgage early instead of playing equity release, and worked throughout in the private sector, for a company that stayed onshore did things with stuff, not bits of paper. Guess what; North and South, I am exactly the sort of person expected to pay the bill.